Replacing the M9/M11

[Chitwood]

I never had the honor of serving so please forgive my intruding into the "In Service" forum, but I'm curious what those of you who have been there / done that think about replacing the M9/M11.

All of the media stories I read are have some variation of "more stopping power" in the theme, which begs why the politically correct/NATO coordination 9mm had to replace John Moses Browning's work of art in the first place.

With a grip that can accommodate just about anyone, good reliability in harsh conditions and a lightning-bolt round, will reintroducing a variation of the 1911 be in the mix? I realize 8+1 is not ideal, but how else are you going to get a powerful round in a grip that fits just about anyone?

[stitch_paradox]

1. There's a post about this already: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=953845

2. It's a dupe.

3. Did i say there's a post about it already?

[GardoneVT]

Originally Posted by Chitwood

I never had the honor of serving so please forgive my intruding into the "In Service" forum, but I'm curious what those of you who have been there / done that think about replacing the M9/M11.

All of the media stories I read are have some variation of "more stopping power" in the theme, which begs why the politically correct/NATO coordination 9mm had to replace John Moses Browning's work of art in the first place.

With a grip that can accommodate just about anyone, good reliability in harsh conditions and a lightning-bolt round, will reintroducing a variation of the 1911 be in the mix? I realize 8+1 is not ideal, but how else are you going to get a powerful round in a grip that fits just about anyone?

I propose that the mods immediately lock any thread containing the words "new army pistol" and 1911. Folks, it ain't coming back. Stop asking.

[stormvet]

Nope, never gonna happen. But M&P .45, gets my vote. Not that it matters but they should listen to me after all I stayed in a Holliday Inn express last night.

[ParkwayDrive]

Originally Posted by stitch_paradox

1. There's a post about this already: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=953845

2. It's a dupe.

3. Did i say there's a post about it already?

He's asking for personal insight from those who were in. Relax.



Personally, I never carried an M9 but I did go the M9 ranges and qual with it regularly. In my infantry platoon, we only had two and both of the 240 gunners carried them. From everything I've heard, the Army is not taking 9mm off the table, it's simply open to a new platform, with the possibility of a new caliber.

The problem with handgun cartridges is that they are all garbage, at least the big three. For handguns, shot placement is the most important thing. I specifically say that about handguns because a 7.62x51 round hitting you anywhere will **** you up bad and shot placement isn't as critical. Due to them being weak rounds, capacity is much more important and why I think we should stick with 9mm and I personally believe we should go with Glock 17s. ODA have been using Glocks for quite a while now so they aren't new to the Army.

[chris]

Originally Posted by ParkwayDrive

He's asking for personal insight from those who were in. Relax.



Personally, I never carried an M9 but I did go the M9 ranges and qual with it regularly. In my infantry platoon, we only had two and both of the 240 gunners carried them. From everything I've heard, the Army is not taking 9mm off the table, it's simply open to a new platform, with the possibility of a new caliber.

The problem with handgun cartridges is that they are all garbage, at least the big three. For handguns, shot placement is the most important thing. I specifically say that about handguns because a 7.62x51 round hitting you anywhere will **** you up bad and shot placement isn't as critical. Due to them being weak rounds, capacity is much more important and why I think we should stick with 9mm and I personally believe we should go with Glock 17s. ODA have been using Glocks for quite a while now so they aren't new to the Army.

SIG's have been used by MI and CID for years as well. both handguns are fine IMO. I don't like glocks because the way they fit in my hand that is my reason.

[ParkwayDrive]

Originally Posted by chris

SIG's have been used by MI and CID for years as well. both handguns are fine IMO. I don't like glocks because the way they fit in my hand that is my reason.

I'm not saying other handguns don't exist that are just as good as Glocks or that Glocks are the holy grail. I agree with you, both would be fine. Glocks have been proven in combat by the Army, so that's a huge plus when considering a new handgun for combat.

[Chitwood]

I DID see the other post but was hoping for a better mix of actual field experience in this sub-forum, sorry for the annoyance.

As for the effectiveness of the .45ACP, too bad Sgt. Alvin Cullum York is not around to lend his comments.

I shall posit questions no more on any of these forums, so as to not further annoy the good people of CalGuns.net. Goodbye.

[ParkwayDrive]

Originally Posted by Chitwood

I DID see the other post but was hoping for a better mix of actual field experience in this sub-forum, sorry for the annoyance.

As for the effectiveness of the .45ACP, too bad Sgt. Alvin Cullum York is not around to lend his comments.

I shall posit questions no more on any of these forums, so as to not further annoy the good people of CalGuns.net. Goodbye.

You're overreacting. Don't listen to Gardone. I already defended you and then you run away?

You're not going to find much personal experience about handguns in combat here or anywhere. Using a handgun in combat is a very rare thing. The best you'll get is the opinions of active duty/vets on what should be done, which is still different from the original thread about this in the regular forums.

[Gun_Smoke]

Some Marine units get 1911s.

I have a 1911 issued to me and it is great. They are nice I like it way more than any 9mm I have ever shot. Granted the 1911 is brand new and the m9s were used and abused. I don't like the ergonomics of the m9 at all though so even if it shot well I don't like how it feels in my hand.

[ParkwayDrive]

Originally Posted by Gun_Smoke

Some Marine units get 1911s.

I have a 1911 issued to me and it is great. They are nice I like it way more than any 9mm I have ever shot. Granted the 1911 is brand new and the m9s were used and abused. I don't like the ergonomics of the m9 at all though so even if it shot well I don't like how it feels in my hand.

The Army issues 1911s as well, doesn't mean it should be the standard pistol.

[ChuckDizzle]

I saw an M9 fired in theater twice. Once was by a female MP major who dropped a bad guy nearly instantly when he tried to run a check point. This was probably from 15 yards away. While she fired six shots in rapid succession only the first two hit the target center mass and dropped him dead as dead. I was surprised at the effectiveness of the pistol and the cartridge, but the shots were placed very well, and I have no doubt that if he hadn't dropped like a marionette with his strings cut the other four rounds would have found home in his abdomen or chest.

I also saw one shot from a battalion SGM kill one of those big Afghan dogs, but that dog got shot in the face.

[Anthracis]

Pistol use in combat is very RARE indeed. Lots of rifles available.

[Jeep67cj5]

Should go to all 1911's...

[Gawernator]

Marines switched over to the 1911 again... it was big in the news, some cool model too. "stopping power" is a myth, Beretta M9 is an okay gun, not my favorite but it works pretty well. "any bullet is no bullet someone wants to take"

[Psybain]

Originally Posted by Gawernator

Marines switched over to the 1911 again... it was big in the news, some cool model too. "stopping power" is a myth, Beretta M9 is an okay gun, not my favorite but it works pretty well. "any bullet is no bullet someone wants to take"

Only the recon and marsoc guys switched to 1911s, the rest of us have either M9s or M9A1s. I am skeptical that anything will result from this , insidering the last couple major bids the army has done (improved carbine and improved camouflage) died quietly and without fanfare.

[pterrell]

Originally Posted by Psybain

Only the recon and marsoc guys switched to 1911s, the rest of us have either M9s or M9A1s. I am skeptical that anything will result from this , insidering the last couple major bids the army has done (improved carbine and improved camouflage) died quietly and without fanfare.

Beretta just renewed their contract with us to supply the new M9A1. We won't be adopting anything in the near future. Marsoc and Recon get what they want though because they do operations with other operaters in places that need to be operated...

and they have a near limitless budget...

[kyle.]

SD40VE.

[ParkwayDrive]

Originally Posted by Psybain

Only the recon and marsoc guys switched to 1911s, the rest of us have either M9s or M9A1s. I am skeptical that anything will result from this , insidering the last couple major bids the army has done (improved carbine and improved camouflage) died quietly and without fanfare.

SCAR 17 for Army SOF and Multicam for the entire branch, not sure what you mean by things dying.

I can definitely see them adopting a new handgun Army wide. Glocks are used on a large scale by SOF so I think it's a viable option.

[Psybain]

This is what I meant by contracts dying:

Individual Carbine Competition Concludes without winner: http://soldiersystems.net/2013/06/13...ithout-winner/

And the Camouflage Improvement Effort concluded with no winner. By all accounts, late spring 2013 the winner had been chosen, and then sat on it for months until after the Congressional mandate for no new individual camouflage patterns for individual branches took effect. Once this happened, they spent another 6-9 months going back and forth on what to do before setting on Scorpion W2 this summer. Since none of the finalists were selected I would say that qualifies as it dying, even if a 2nd cousin of the rumored winner is now going to be the new pattern for the army. You can read the entire Camouflage Improvement Effort saga on soldier systems, they had that thing covered better than anyone for the last 4 years.

As far as pistols go, just look to the JSF back in 06. On the bright side, things like the glock 21sf came out of it, but a lot of companies wasted a bit of money jumping through govt hoops, only to have the rug pulled out from under them with no warning (just like in the individual carbine competition last year).

Originally Posted by ParkwayDrive

SCAR 17 for Army SOF and Multicam for the entire branch, not sure what you mean by things dying.

I can definitely see them adopting a new handgun Army wide. Glocks are used on a large scale by SOF so I think it's a viable option.