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  #81  
Old 06-08-2019, 1:47 PM
DB> DB> is offline
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Get copies of the DROS, and any shipping/tracking information proving "chain of custody" from seller to buyer. PayPal should have notified you of a CC dispute AKA a "charge back" being filed, and you have a time to respond with FACTS proving the receipt by the buyer. Hopefully you are still within that response window and providing proof that the "buyer" received what they paid for will keep the "dispute" open with some chance you aren't screwed. TIME is critical in responding.

If the card holder is different from the actual buyer, you also need to prove the relationship (i.e., if he used the wife's card with HER name on it, and SHE says she didn't order it, you're in the tough position of showing he was an authorized user on HER card, or at least had "easy access" to use the card that the cardholder knew or should have known about).

You're in a tough spot, the CC company/bank will ALWAYS "protect" their "customer", unless you have solid proof showing the cardholder is making a false claim (and fraudsters assume you won't take the time or trouble to defend a false "charge back" claim).

PayPal will ALWAYS put you in the position of defending any CC fraud claim, except in VERY limited circumstances (such as an ebay transaction where there is a strong electronic trail, and even in those you are still presumed "guilty" while they investigate). Sometimes, if you are a long time user, and the amount is not too much, they will step up to "cover" the exposure while it's being resolved/investigated.

Hope this will help you get this resolved, and that you are still within the response window - if you've let that pass, sometimes a call to Paypal can get things re-opened, but don't count on it. Depending on the amount involved and the documentation you can provide, PayPal can also decide a "no fault" and cover you as a courtesy (again, don't count on it, but at higher levels of customer support they do have options for "good customers" that are being screwed through no fault of their own).

Last edited by DB>; 06-08-2019 at 2:04 PM..
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  #82  
Old 06-08-2019, 5:57 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaton View Post
I definitely did learn and PayPal was....wait for it....his request. Thereís actually more to this story as the whole transaction was less than smooth. Funny thing is while the initial transaction was taking place there were some issues and I was more than accommodating as I didnít get my actual payment until 5 days into his background. He got delayed and assumed it was my fault because the gun he bought was originally DROS to my wife, a fact I willing shared with him because I knew it wasnít causing the delay. I didnít realize that it was hers until after the sale but was told by multiple ffls, le, and DOJ that the delay would not be triggered from that, delays are triggered on the buyers side only (unless the gun has been reported stolen, which isnít the case here) and in this case most likely because the transaction was within a week or two of the government shut down in January, so likely had nothing to do with anything other than a backlog and constrained resources.He actually seemed like a good guy initially and we talked about how we are both family men and have more important things in life than to get upset over a less than smooth transaction. If he were to just pay what he agreed and initially did pay then I would redact all of this and chalk it up to a misunderstanding. However, as things currently sit, I feel I have a duty to inform the calgun community about his actions. For all I know he does this intentionally and then resells the guns he never actually paid for. Since he wonít reply to me via text, email, or private message here it feels like heís gone dark on me and maybe this isnít the first time. Going through the small claims process is a pain and most probably wonít go through all of it hoping they collect so this kind of behavior is made possible. I hope Iím wrong and he reaches out, if he does Iíll repost. Cash only and donít assume people have the same morals as you do just because youíve got a few things in common.
Like DB have said, try to fight it with PayPal with proof and see what happens. When I looked your buyer's history here, its interesting he is out of Elk Grove but will also posts "I'll take it" on handgun ads for Los Angeles and San Diego too. Maybe he travels maybe not. He was logged in yesterday. In this case I would 100% put a negative feedback so the rest of the members will know this incident as not everyone reads this beware thread. tracking him down is not hard, all depends on what course of action you want out of it. Yeah this sucks, hate to see a member gets ripped off cash and gun. it pisses me off actually.
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  #83  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:05 AM
beaton beaton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB> View Post
Get copies of the DROS, and any shipping/tracking information proving "chain of custody" from seller to buyer. PayPal should have notified you of a CC dispute AKA a "charge back" being filed, and you have a time to respond with FACTS proving the receipt by the buyer. Hopefully you are still within that response window and providing proof that the "buyer" received what they paid for will keep the "dispute" open with some chance you aren't screwed. TIME is critical in responding.

If the card holder is different from the actual buyer, you also need to prove the relationship (i.e., if he used the wife's card with HER name on it, and SHE says she didn't order it, you're in the tough position of showing he was an authorized user on HER card, or at least had "easy access" to use the card that the cardholder knew or should have known about).

You're in a tough spot, the CC company/bank will ALWAYS "protect" their "customer", unless you have solid proof showing the cardholder is making a false claim (and fraudsters assume you won't take the time or trouble to defend a false "charge back" claim).

PayPal will ALWAYS put you in the position of defending any CC fraud claim, except in VERY limited circumstances (such as an ebay transaction where there is a strong electronic trail, and even in those you are still presumed "guilty" while they investigate). Sometimes, if you are a long time user, and the amount is not too much, they will step up to "cover" the exposure while it's being resolved/investigated.

Hope this will help you get this resolved, and that you are still within the response window - if you've let that pass, sometimes a call to Paypal can get things re-opened, but don't count on it. Depending on the amount involved and the documentation you can provide, PayPal can also decide a "no fault" and cover you as a courtesy (again, don't count on it, but at higher levels of customer support they do have options for "good customers" that are being screwed through no fault of their own).
I appreciate all that and yes we did get notified of a dispute, the lgs provided the delivery DROS and we passed it on to PayPal. They initially said that would be enough because itís proof he received (signature/finger print). Then fast forward over a month and we get an email from PayPal that the cc company is siding with their customer because we didnít provide proof the item was ever shipped to their customer. Of course it wasnít shipped, we all understand that but itís a case of incompetence and a lack of PayPal or the cc company caring enough to understand and communicate at a higher level. They literally have proof via signature and fingerprint on a dated legal document and they are saying itís not enough. Because the claim was opened by him with his cc company PayPal wonít help. They also wonít tell us what financial institution his cc is through so we have no way of going to them directly. All they say is talk to the buyer but what do you do when the buyer goes dark? Iíve already tracked down his home address so that we can serve him for small claims but is just a lot of bs to be put through all because of what appears to be a very dishonest buyer. Iím still planning to get in touch with both local le and DOJ assuming I donít hear back from him soon. Maybe Iím an idiot but Iím still holding out hope that itís a big misunderstanding and heíll set things straight.
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  #84  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:07 AM
beaton beaton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
Like DB have said, try to fight it with PayPal with proof and see what happens. When I looked your buyer's history here, its interesting he is out of Elk Grove but will also posts "I'll take it" on handgun ads for Los Angeles and San Diego too. Maybe he travels maybe not. He was logged in yesterday. In this case I would 100% put a negative feedback so the rest of the members will know this incident as not everyone reads this beware thread. tracking him down is not hard, all depends on what course of action you want out of it. Yeah this sucks, hate to see a member gets ripped off cash and gun. it pisses me off actually.
How do I put negative feedback when the deal is several months old and last time I tried I got a message about the transaction being too old for a feedback rating?
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  #85  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:24 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaton View Post
How do I put negative feedback when the deal is several months old and last time I tried I got a message about the transaction being too old for a feedback rating?
I wasn't aware you can't leave a feedback because the transaction was too old (several months). If that's the case, I would contact a Mod for assistance.
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  #86  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:35 PM
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For our legal guys:

Is this a situation where the gun can be reported as stolen?

(I would wait for a lack of resolution, but then report.)
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It never fails to amuse me how people get outraged but fail to tell the whole story in their rants....
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  #87  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:53 PM
Motor Man Motor Man is offline
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PayPal sometimes makes mistakes. I responded to a dispute a few years ago where the buyer of motorcycle parts claimed they were never received. I provided the delivery info from USPS. PayPal then sided with the buyer anyway, telling me I hadn't responded to the dispute notification. I called PayPal and questioned their decision. They then saw that I had, in fact, responded with the proof and reversed their decision. Try contacting PayPal to question their decision if you haven't done so already.
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  #88  
Old 06-09-2019, 3:21 PM
beaton beaton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor Man View Post
PayPal sometimes makes mistakes. I responded to a dispute a few years ago where the buyer of motorcycle parts claimed they were never received. I provided the delivery info from USPS. PayPal then sided with the buyer anyway, telling me I hadn't responded to the dispute notification. I called PayPal and questioned their decision. They then saw that I had, in fact, responded with the proof and reversed their decision. Try contacting PayPal to question their decision if you haven't done so already.
Thank you for the suggestion, we have spoken with PayPal multiple times and because the dispute came from the cc side and not theirs it appears they are content being lazy. Their representatives actually agree weíre being screwed but said thereís nothing they can do. They canít do anything but we sure can, our account will be closed once this is resolved however that works out. I will also not be using them for a new business Iíve started despite planning to before all this. In the end they will lose more from failing to help us than we will be hurt by not ever using their service again. As far as reporting the firearm stolen, the county sheriff recommended speaking with DOJ which Iíll be doing soon, and Iíll also be going to his local police department. The officers Iíve spoken to thus far were sympathetic but felt it was more of a civil matter since the initial transaction was valid and then he reneged. Theyíve told me DOJ might be willing to go take possession pending a resolution but that is tbd.
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  #89  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caller #10 View Post
Back in Feb 2019 I posted a negative iTrader rating for Tegulife and just today heís back with hate mail PMs during the middle of the night. At the time he hit me up with venting PMs on here, they were childish, I told him to ďgrow up and own his actionsĒ and he stopped. But now, 4 months later, heís back with name calling PMs (again childish), and upped the ante to include racial slurs!

Yes, Iíve contacted the mods but posting here as well to ask : Anyone else experience anything like this?

Just block him
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  #90  
Old 06-19-2019, 3:59 AM
Elgindy25 Elgindy25 is offline
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Default Beware of seller with number (408) 868-3856 scam attempt

I posted a wtb add for a glock 36, this guy texts me telling me for $400, he will ship the g36 TOO MY DOORSTEP and that he has an FFL and can send to me, i know thats false because handguns must ship to FFLs, i dont know his user name here as he did not pm me here. Anyone else get texts from this pathetic scammer?
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  #91  
Old 06-19-2019, 6:37 PM
DB> DB> is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garv View Post
For our legal guys:

Is this a situation where the gun can be reported as stolen?

(I would wait for a lack of resolution, but then report.)
Interesting angle... I'm sure it's just petty theft, which might be ignored depending on the agency, but never hurts to try. I'm guessing they will take a "stolen" firearm more serious than they would some other innocuous item. Obviously provide LE with the serial #, and a good written summary of what happened.

Theft is theft, regardless of how it was accomplished. if Paypal goes back to the "buyer's" CC with a police report, the tune might rapidly change.

A second approach would be to file a mail fraud complaint - presuming you shipped via US Mail and followed all the rules for shipping firearms, that might well result in black helicopters visiting the guys neighborhood (kidding... maybe), or at least some USPS investigators.

Not all "theft" is conducted the same way, and you have the chain of custody showing delivery, and now a claim that the charge was fraudulent... which is false.

More than one way to skin the proverbial cat...
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  #92  
Old 07-01-2019, 2:50 PM
FMJ510 FMJ510 is offline
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Default Scammer with Oregon FFL photo & phone (408) 868-3856

Scammer used a license photo of Dennis Whitaker (a honest Oregon FFL) to try to close deal on C&R Mauser HSc he sent photos of. Would only communicate by text from (408) 868-3856.

Looked up and called the FFL in the photo and he had sent a photo of his FFL to try to close a deal. Scammer has been using it ever since.
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  #93  
Old 07-02-2019, 3:13 PM
Lertie32 Lertie32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaton View Post
SSick02- Bought a handgun from me via PayPal and then told his cc company that he never received it. LGS confirmed via copy of delivered DROS that he picked up after he was delayed. PayPal now is threatening to put me in collections because he still wonít tell his cc company the charge was valid. Heís had the TRP full rail for over 2 months and is trying to make me use law enforcement/civil intervention to not end up in collections. Wonít reply to any messages and has his money and the firearm. Sellers Beware, Buyers for that matter too. He might be selling a gun he never paid for.


In my old freelance business, I had almost the same situation happen with PayPal and a clientís (non-firearm) purchase... PayPal is AWFUL!!!!
PayPal seems to take easy route of just bullying and billing the little guy instead of properly handling disputes w/big credit card companies.
Luckily, Iíd quickly transferred the $ before they tried to take it (over $10K), but they charged me for it, trashed my credit w/reporting it as my bad debt, etc. Despite having documentation proof (invoices, shipping/delivery tickets, & emails) out the wazoo, it was going to be a longer & hard fight. In hindsight, I wish that I didnít give up & let PayPal (& the deadbeat client) get away with it, and I hope that you fight & prevail. Good luck!!


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  #94  
Old 08-09-2019, 6:15 PM
Elgindy25 Elgindy25 is offline
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Default Beware of (760) 557-9911) in san diego!! Shady flaked last minute

This guy is a true waste of time and air, cancelled on me at the last second, literally were supposed to meet up and he was going to buy my glock 30 at north county shooting center in san marcos. Texts me 5 minutes beforehand telling me his wife threw a fit ir whatever. Why not get her permission first if its needed!

Dont trust this guy unless he pays you upfront first!.

His number is (760) 557-9911) and supposedly lives in vista! Spread the word so other sellers dont fall for his bull****!
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  #95  
Old 08-13-2019, 1:22 PM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
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Fabalon
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What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabalon
Hello,

Interested in those VP9s you're selling. There's a shop local to us which also has one for PPT, but if it is sold by next week, I'd be interested in picking up one of yours. You wouldn't happen to have pictures available?

Thanks,
Fred

Me: Yes I can provide pictures let me know if you do not get the one in your local LGS and we can see if we can make a deal

Fred:
My LGS ended selling it. May I request pics of your beauts? I do work the next couple of days but if you're free the 15th and I'd be willing to take it off your hands.
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Off roster HK and walther for sale

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1550625
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  #96  
Old 08-13-2019, 2:04 PM
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RHSth4 RHSth4 is offline
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Just a new guy. Cut him some slack seems friendly enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
Fabalon
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What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabalon
Hello,

Interested in those VP9s you're selling. There's a shop local to us which also has one for PPT, but if it is sold by next week, I'd be interested in picking up one of yours. You wouldn't happen to have pictures available?

Thanks,
Fred

Me: Yes I can provide pictures let me know if you do not get the one in your local LGS and we can see if we can make a deal

Fred:
My LGS ended selling it. May I request pics of your beauts? I do work the next couple of days but if you're free the 15th and I'd be willing to take it off your hands.
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  #97  
Old 08-13-2019, 7:06 PM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHSth4 View Post
Just a new guy. Cut him some slack seems friendly enough.
True, sounds very friendly… Almost too friendly like those messages you get from Africa asking you to take $6 million !

Most new guys At least post a couple stupid questions… I’m sure I have
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Off roster HK and walther for sale

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1550625

Last edited by Saym14; 08-13-2019 at 7:37 PM..
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  #98  
Old 08-13-2019, 8:24 PM
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RHSth4 RHSth4 is offline
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Or he see's how bad people get eaten alive on here and doesnt want to be one of those guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
True, sounds very friendlyÖ Almost too friendly like those messages you get from Africa asking you to take $6 million !

Most new guys At least post a couple stupid questionsÖ Iím sure I have
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  #99  
Old 08-14-2019, 9:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
Fabalon
Joined August 2019
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What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabalon
Hello,

Interested in those VP9s you're selling. There's a shop local to us which also has one for PPT, but if it is sold by next week, I'd be interested in picking up one of yours. You wouldn't happen to have pictures available?

Thanks,
Fred

Me: Yes I can provide pictures let me know if you do not get the one in your local LGS and we can see if we can make a deal

Fred:
My LGS ended selling it. May I request pics of your beauts? I do work the next couple of days but if you're free the 15th and I'd be willing to take it off your hands.
Am I reading this wrong? I fail to see Fred's fault
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  #100  
Old 08-14-2019, 9:02 AM
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RHSth4 RHSth4 is offline
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That's how I read it just somebody being polite on their intentions.
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Originally Posted by siznarf View Post
Am I reading this wrong? I fail to see Fred's fault
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  #101  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:09 AM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
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I guess I am probably just overly paranoid… Turns out he seems to be a real guy
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Off roster HK and walther for sale

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1550625
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  #102  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
I guess I am probably just overly paranoidÖ Turns out he seems to be a real guy
Glad it worked out!
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  #103  
Old 08-21-2019, 1:17 PM
baragasam baragasam is offline
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Default Alert

I know this is not CGN related but in case any of you use Armslist (which most likely you all do), watch out for these people:

The listed may be their aliases.

-"Peter Deg": Sells Gen 3 and 4 Glock 19s on Armslist, listings are located at Downtown LA. He will text saying he's in Sacramento and try to ship firearms to your door directly, most likely is a scam. His number is #760-417-8049

-"Alex Carlo": This "kid" is in Corona, he will make up stories about how his car got stolen and "lost" his FSC/HSC. I met him all the way in Corona to sell a shotgun, he lied about having a child on the way to low ball prices. He also lies about getting his hunting license to be exempt from long gun laws that was updated this year. BAD business. He also did not disclaim his age, HE IS UNDERAGE.
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  #104  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:36 PM
auffie.hk auffie.hk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packy14 View Post
did he flake on you? steal from you? if not, why are you a crybaby and badmouthing the dude. sheesh.
Saym14 posted a follow-up here:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...0#post23308500

All is OK.
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  #105  
Old 08-28-2019, 6:30 PM
punjabi408 punjabi408 is online now
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Default Caller # 10 Racist Remarks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caller #10 View Post
Back in Feb 2019 I posted a negative iTrader rating for Tegulife and just today he’s back with hate mail PMs during the middle of the night. At the time he hit me up with venting PMs on here, they were childish, I told him to “grow up and own his actions” and he stopped. But now, 4 months later, he’s back with name calling PMs (again childish), and upped the ante to include racial slurs!

Yes, I’ve contacted the mods but posting here as well to ask : Anyone else experience anything like this?


I came here to post about Caller #10 and its kind of funny he is complaining about the same thing about a different member. Maybe You should grow up also. People work and don't always get home tell late at night.



Last edited by punjabi408; 08-28-2019 at 8:10 PM.. Reason: 1440 img to large for cell phone view
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  #106  
Old 08-29-2019, 4:41 AM
SnowWolf SnowWolf is offline
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Default background check for a Kevin Glock

has anyone ever bought from a member named Kevin Glock?
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  #107  
Old 09-15-2019, 11:49 PM
Bigman54 Bigman54 is offline
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Wish they had a thread like this on some of the other Forums I've Joined.
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And more Ammo to Shoot in it.
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  #108  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:53 PM
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Joseph-(510) 962-7207 - OC area- on armslist selling a gen 5 glock 19 for $530.

He wanted to be paid via physical steam gift cards which is weird but ok.
I brought my friend with me to be at the Best Buy ready to buy the gift cards if the deal is good because I didnít want to be stuck with gift cards that are non refundable (he has no idea I did this).

Arranged to meet at Turnerís in Chino at noon. Guy no shows, doesnít answer his phone, no texts.
Texts me at 2PM asking if Iím there and heís ready to make the deal and is ďsorryĒ he was out delivering to another client and ran out of time.
Told him if he wants he can come to me, ammo bros in Riverside. He said heíll show up if I send him pictures of receipts confirming the purchase of the gift cards first to which I said no, my friend will get the gift cards when we are in the store. He even tells me to stop wasting his time, really?!
Needless to say he stopped texting and the deal didnít happen because I refused to buy $500 worth of gift cards before heíd even show up.


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  #109  
Old 09-16-2019, 1:26 PM
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559BearDown 559BearDown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuwok View Post
Joseph-(510) 962-7207 - OC area- on armslist selling a gen 5 glock 19 for $530.

He wanted to be paid via physical steam gift cards which is weird but ok.
I brought my friend with me to be at the Best Buy ready to buy the gift cards if the deal is good because I didnít want to be stuck with gift cards that are non refundable (he has no idea I did this).

Arranged to meet at Turnerís in Chino at noon. Guy no shows, doesnít answer his phone, no texts.
Texts me at 2PM asking if Iím there and heís ready to make the deal and is ďsorryĒ he was out delivering to another client and ran out of time.
Told him if he wants he can come to me, ammo bros in Riverside. He said heíll show up if I send him pictures of receipts confirming the purchase of the gift cards first to which I said no, my friend will get the gift cards when we are in the store. He even tells me to stop wasting his time, really?!
Needless to say he stopped texting and the deal didnít happen because I refused to buy $500 worth of gift cards before heíd even show up.


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For future reference, walk away a lot sooner than that. Total scam written all over it 🤣
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  #110  
Old 09-16-2019, 1:33 PM
kuwok kuwok is offline
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I had to try. It only cost me a 30 minute drive. It might have worked out


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  #111  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:12 PM
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nukuduku nukuduku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuwok View Post
I had to try. It only cost me a 30 minute drive. It might have worked out


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I dealt with the same guy the other day. I had a feeling it was a scam so I asked him to send a few specific photos of the firearm. He said ok and then didn't respond. I never got the photos. He then asked me for steam gift cards as well and to meet. I told him I would meet him inside the gun store to do the exchange and he said he would only meet outside. I'm glad you didn't get scammed.

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  #112  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:39 AM
gregorym gregorym is offline
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Hello,

Removed post. In hindsight, I think the seller and I simply misunderstood each other.

Last edited by gregorym; 09-25-2019 at 11:48 AM.. Reason: Dont want to identify someone as scammer when they may not be.
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  #113  
Old 10-20-2019, 7:19 PM
Hungsolo Hungsolo is offline
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Beware of seller username Glck2018- we have been working on a time and place to meetup for like 2 weeks. He just no showed me and won’t respond to my texts after I drove over 100 miles 1 way to meet him. His number is +1 (661) 234-8753

Last edited by Hungsolo; 10-20-2019 at 7:21 PM..
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  #114  
Old 10-29-2019, 7:08 AM
ajshuck1988 ajshuck1988 is offline
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cj @ law was provided my PayPal link and coincidentally the account had then been accessed unauthorized adding an address of

1000 S Fremont ave
Alhambra, CA 91803
United States

And a credit card ending in 1401


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  #115  
Old 11-09-2019, 4:20 PM
RRRRonald RRRRonald is offline
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Evil Dog was great seller and buyer... I'd vouch for him anytime over anything!!!
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