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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#1
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Proof of Residency Alternatives
Does anyone know what would work as POR other than DMV registration and lease agreement?
So would a business license from the city work if the address and name matches my ID? |
#2
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^^ NO read the regs on this. Why would your city business license have your home address Go buy a fishing license that puts money in the state coffers where it belongs. Phone bull, voter registration.
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#3
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Even big 5 accepts fishing license. Where are you located? just write a up a lease then Not rocket science. Do you have a hunting license.? Utility bill. phone bill (not cellular.
Last edited by edgerly779; 11-17-2018 at 5:05 AM.. |
#4
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Not sure why they would take hunting and fishing licenses this is straight for the dealer section of the doj
Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency: Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government). Cellular phone bill. When I asked about it at an audit some years ago I was told it was because they were issued by the retailer not the government |
#5
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Perhaps it predates the existence of this web page: https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Licensing/Online-Sales
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#6
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First off which requirement are you asking about, CA or Federal?
Most of what works for the Feds works for CA except for a CA ID/DL for handgun purchases. A government document with dates when it is valid is acceptable. Such things as a Ham radio license, fire permit, vehicle registration all work. The hunting licenses are now issued by the state as I recall, so the CA info is out of date. Government utility bills also work. CA also has it in the law that a lease works. In their example they say a notarized lease, but that isn't in the law and isn't normal. To your question as to a business license with your name and home address, it should have dates when it is valid, it is also a government document, so it should be fine. The problem is many don't think about what the requirements are and so they want only what they are used to.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#7
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__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#8
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Big 5 doesn't sell handguns. So I'm curious why the would be getting proof of residency.
__________________
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#9
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Then again, it could be their just being stupid and not understanding the law that it is only for handguns that there is a proof of residency requirement which the CA ID/DL isn't acceptable. Something that was told to me which I didn't realize is that CA actually has no proof of residency requirement for long guns. The Feds do though.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#10
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In other states, a long gun purchase can occur to people in other states as long as the two states have to same requirements for legal purchase. |
#11
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I think that you are missing the point. There isn't any proof of residency requirements under CA law for long guns. While they need a CA ID/DL or military ID, CA doesn't require that it have their current residence. There are still Federal requirements, but you don't need anything for CA.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#12
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In summary - it doesn't matter what anyone in this thread tells you. You need to ask the LGS what they will take. We can all tell you what's legit, but if your LGS doesn't take it they don't take it.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#13
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#14
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In 1997 I went to a regional HQ on Silverado Cnyn Rd, in IIRC Sonoma Cnty. License expired and I was working in Benecia. So the "NOT ISSUED BY GOVERNMENT" BS is just that, BS. |
#15
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Is there any aspect of CA firearms laws that are not BS Pac?
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price) Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer! Or call 626-968-5900 Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here! |
#16
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The CA ID/DL might not have their current residence address, which means it wouldn't establish residency. There are people who don't live in CA, but have a CA ID/DL, which means they have the means to submit a DROS.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#17
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#18
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But it strikes me 12022.53(h) has been abused - Quote:
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#19
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Subdivision (h) became effective January 1, 2018. Before that date, a PC12022.53 enhancement could not be dismissed by a judge. I’m curious as how you know that a judge has abused this discretionary power in the past year. |
#20
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But I'm not aware of a lot of gun-using-criminals, convicted of a listed crime, sitting in the time-out chair for overtime. I would be grateful for a pointer to sentencing data which may make me better informed.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#21
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A lease has never worked for ATF.
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GoingQuiet.com, 07/02 FFL Melbourne, FL 321-917-0760 PRIVATE MESSAGES SENT TO THIS ACCOUNT ARE NOT CHECKED - instead, email sales@goingquiet.com |
#22
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If your CA ID/DL has your current residence address, then that covers the Federal requirement. CA doesn't accept your CA ID/DL for proof of residency for handguns, even though for a Real ID you have to prove your residence address and CA doesn't require that the proof be a government document. https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#14G Please note that the examples don't strictly follow the law as a lease isn't actually required to be notarized. If you read the part above where it is mentioned, there is no mention of that it has to be notarized. Quote:
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein Last edited by kemasa; 11-19-2018 at 1:38 PM.. |
#24
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California sentencing is very complicated. I took an entire semester-long class devoted to just California sentencing law. A PC12022.5 enhancement adds 3, 4, or 10 years to a sentence. If a prosecutor charged a a PC12022.53 enhancement, 10 years is added for the use of a gun, 20 years is added for the discharge of a gun, or a life term results for death or great bodily injury from the discharge of a gun. Before 2018, if a prosecutor charged a PC12022 or a PC12022.53 enhancement, the enhanced sentence must be imposed by the judge. The judge had no discretion to ignore or say it wasn't in the interests of justice, but had to impose it. A defense attorney could not ask a judge to not impose it. A prosecutor could choose to bargain away the enhancement in a plea bargain, but that is the nature of a plea bargain. What incentive is there to avoid trial, if the result is going to be same pleading guilty before trial or being found guilty after trial? As for the actual topic of this thread, which is proof of residency... Penal Code section 26845 says: (a) No handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that the person is a California resident.The regulations by the Department of Justice are found in 11 CCR 4045: The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 26845:But as others have pointed out already, it's what the guy at the counter says, not necessarily what the law is, even if that may be a misdemeanor under PC28250(a)(4). I have encountered poorly trained gunstore employees who insist that the utility bill must be from a government entity such as the LA Department of Water and Power. I have had gun store employees refuse me to give me a copy of the approved DROS in violation of PC28215(e). What am I going to do? Rat people out to DOJ? |
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