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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#1
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My LGS, CA Laws, and a confused me.
My Wife is an LEO, finally on the road to recovery after a mild case of the cancer and was going to treat herself to a new arsenal.
Two off roster pistols (XDS and LCP in Raspberry) and one on roster (SIG 226) She asked me if it would be possible to buy them together at one time since she's LEO, wait the 10 days as to not have to deal with her CO, and grab them up. I thought she'd be good to go today, what with the exemptions that LEOs are fortunate to have. She was told by our guy that she can only do 1 every 30 days unless she had a letter from her CO which would result in 1 every 5 days. (new to me, I thought letters just exempted her from the 10 day wait.) She also was going to buy me a rifle for our anniversary and they came back with she cannot purchase a long gun and a pistol the same day. (also new to me, though never tested it) I've done a cursory search through the laws and didn't see anything, one way or the other, about these. I like my LGS, I won't argue with them about it as we can't find ammo so there's no rush, was just trying to save on Dros fees and paperwork if possible, but I'm curious to know if this is in fact the way it is and I am just horribly misinformed. (Quite likely) I'm confused as to how often my C.O.E. will let me buy now as well. |
#3
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A COE with out a FFL dose not get you any thing
LE can buy off roster guns and the 1 in 30 rule dose not apply but that is all being LE get you with out a letter from your/their CO any one can buy a pistol and a long gun on the same day
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Last edited by ASD1; 07-03-2013 at 7:38 AM.. |
#4
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there is no requirement in that exemption for the LEO to have a letter for that exemption.27535. (a) No person shall make an application to purchase more Quote:
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take pretty much the same amount of paperwork. one DROS for each handgun and rifle (although you might be able to just do one 4473 for everything, but that depends on the FFL. some one one 4473 for each DROS, makes filing the paperwork easier in case of audits). and if you bought multiple handguns in a 5-day period from that FFL, then they would need to send in a notice to ATF about it (that might be where they came up with the 1-in-5 BS so they wouldn't need to file a multiple handgun purchase report).
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#5
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IMO...
1 in 5 days = store policy because they do not want to deal with the BATFE multiple handgun reporting requirement, which is required when a person acquires 2 or more handguns within a five day time period.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#6
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Thanks for the input. much appreciated.
I thought it was odd due to them pitching "five long guns at a time" to me the other day and jokingly pointing me towards the more expensive items they had (and I might get anyway) Last edited by DBoulant; 07-01-2013 at 9:01 PM.. |
#7
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interesting as most likely those long guns would have included at least 2 that would have triggered a "multiple rifle purchase within 5 days" notification like for that of handguns mentioned above, so that excuse goes out the window that they didnt want to do the extra paperwork.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#8
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Find a new dealer. No way in hell would I ever make your wife jump through ridiculous hoops when the State of California has granted her special privileges that makes both of our lives easier. She is 1 in 30 day exempt under the Peace Officer heading and only needs her department ID, she is roster exempt with her ID, and we would most certainly run her handguns and long guns all at the same time (though regrettably on three different DROS).
That other shop is giving you such run around, you definitely need to find a shop that values your time and business more than to make your life more difficult than the State of California requires.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#9
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That's only a requirement on PICK-UP as I understand it. Meaning you can buy or PPT two hand guns on the same day, you just need to pick them up at least 5 days apart so they don't have to "walk that paper work over" (don't know if the hand delivery part is true).
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#10
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The multiple purchase is not really a big deal. I suspect that they get tons of them and unless you are doing it often, it will just be ignored. You could do the PPT at a second FFL, then it would not be reported.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#11
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Went to a couple more shops, they both gave the 1 in 30 line, even though one knew of the FFL03 + COE exemption which I thought was odd. Tempted to run down and just have the other one DROS the SIG we found and see what happens. |
#12
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The CA DOJ DROS computer is not subject to human error. If you try to DROS two handguns in 30 days, it will catch it and it will deny the DROS.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#13
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But as to doing two handguns within 30 days which are not exempt to the 1 in 30, that, as said, will get caught and the DROS will be cancelled.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#14
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I might be confused again...
To clarify, what needs to happen for the following to be legal and approved by CA DOJ and ATF. Special codes and all that (if possible at all) Senario 1: LEO Buys and DROS two handguns on Monday Senario 2: LEO DROS a handgun on monday, and they DROS another on Thursday? |
#15
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#16
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You said that there could not be any human error, I showed that it actually happened, although in the reverse. It is also possible that the DOJ could make a mistake and not catch it due to how they seem to operate and how the system works.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#17
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Has anyone ever had a 2 in 30 days go through and not get caught?
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#18
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Wes, you are the one making things up, not me.
Actually, I think I did actually see the paperwork as I did go over there, but that is not relevant and you are just making that up to try to defend your position. The fact is that he said he marked it and based on the CA DOJ not cancelling either DROS, that tends to confirm it. Computers are programmed by humans, or do you think that everything is perfect? There is a problem with the DROS system in regards to C&R collectors and the 1 in 30 exemption.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#19
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False. You said I said something I did not say. You lie.
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The fact they called and asked and the dealer said he should have marked it 1 in 30 exempt and he forgot is the reason they allowed it to go through. Quote:
Again, do you know of any 2 in 30 days being approved? I know of many 2 in 30 days not being approved. Once again, you just like to type a lot and type about nothing. Like the other thread, I am moving on. Have fun arguing yourself in circles. Again, you will respond and you will harp on about the normal rantings. Enjoy yourself.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#20
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First off you have absolutely no idea of what happened, so you make up a story to be what you want it to be. The fact is that the DOJ did not call the dealer, I called and gave them the person's number and they called her. The next thing is that I seriously doubt that the DOJ would believe or care that the person forgot to mark it and then accept it later. The real fact is that they did mark it and the DOJ did not look at that field. That is why they went silence. The real fact is that you are making things up and don't know what you are talking about, but just have to win the argument, even if it takes lies to try to do so. Quote:
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein Last edited by kemasa; 07-10-2013 at 9:55 PM.. |
#21
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And now with both participants getting their half-innings, we're done here.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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