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  #1  
Old 08-07-2019, 8:46 PM
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Default FFL03 Bound Book

Found some references to my question on other older threads here but cannot find the reference on the ATF website.

Can someone point me in the right direction where to find where it states that a FFL03 can destroy his/her bound book once their license is expired?

And a follow up...if one applies again for a FFL03 at a later time, is there a requirement to produce the previous bound book if audited?

Thanks.
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Old 08-07-2019, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by metalcruncher View Post
Found some references to my question on other older threads here but cannot find the reference on the ATF website.



Can someone point me in the right direction where to find where it states that a FFL03 can destroy his/her bound book once their license is expired?



And a follow up...if one applies again for a FFL03 at a later time, is there a requirement to produce the previous bound book if audited?



Thanks.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-...records-atf-if

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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

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Old 08-07-2019, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by metalcruncher View Post
Found some references to my question on other older threads here but cannot find the reference on the ATF website.



Can someone point me in the right direction where to find where it states that a FFL03 can destroy his/her bound book once their license is expired?



And a follow up...if one applies again for a FFL03 at a later time, is there a requirement to produce the previous bound book if audited?



Thanks.
If you get a new C&R you start a new A/D book.

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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

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”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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Old 08-07-2019, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by metalcruncher View Post
And a follow up...if one applies again for a FFL03 at a later time, is there a requirement to produce the previous bound book if audited?

Thanks.
No requirement to produce or possess your previous bound book.
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Old 08-10-2019, 4:04 PM
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Thanks
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Old 08-25-2019, 9:57 AM
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I'm not a lawyer, but I look at this and it seems to say that records must be kept by collectors for 20 years.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.129

Quote:
§ 478.129 Record retention.
...

(e)Records of dealers and collectors under the Act. The records prepared by licensed dealers and licensed collectors under the Act of the sale or other disposition of firearms and the corresponding record of receipt of such firearms shall be retained through December 15, 1988, after which records of transactions over 20 years of age may be discarded.
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Old 08-26-2019, 9:01 AM
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Interesting, Unless I am misreading the record retention section above it appears that we need to keep them for 20 years?
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:22 AM
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not for ffl 03
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:28 AM
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^^^ Why not for FFL03?
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:40 AM
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its says some where you do not need to keep or turn in ffl3
it may have come with mine I do not remember because you are NOT a dealer.
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:42 AM
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FFL 03 Do not fill in a 4473 or do a NICs check. because you are NOT a dealer


(b)Firearms transaction record. Licensees shall retain each Form 4473 and Form 4473(LV) for a period of not less than 20 years after the date of sale or disposition. Where a licensee has initiated a NICS check for a proposed firearms transaction, but the sale, delivery, or transfer of
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:36 PM
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Yes but FFL03 do create bound book records. 478.129 requires retention of “records” not only 4473s.
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Old 08-26-2019, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
Yes but FFL03 do create bound book records. 478.129 requires retention of “records” not only 4473s.
I'm not a lawyer either but I would hope that following the governing agencies policy would be good to go. It's straight from their website that you do not need to keep it.
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Old 08-26-2019, 5:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce381 View Post
FFL 03 Do not fill in a 4473 or do a NICs check. because you are NOT a dealer


(b)Firearms transaction record. Licensees shall retain each Form 4473 and Form 4473(LV) for a period of not less than 20 years after the date of sale or disposition. Where a licensee has initiated a NICS check for a proposed firearms transaction, but the sale, delivery, or transfer of
In some states 03's do use 4473's because it's legal to transfer C&R firearms to non licensees. No NICS though because they are not dealers.
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Old 08-26-2019, 8:24 PM
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i do not know but I will do this.

Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition and disposition records to ATF if they discontinue their collecting activity?

No. Licensed collectors are not required to submit their records to ATF upon discontinuance of their collecting activity.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4); 27 CFR 478.127]
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
In some states 03's do use 4473's because it's legal to transfer C&R firearms to non licensees. No NICS though because they are not dealers.
What? Where is that required? There is specific requirements in the code, but a 4473 ain't one of them. Pertinent bits in bold:

https://atf-eregs.18f.gov/478-125/E9-527#478-125-f

Quote:
478.125(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below.

{stuff about acquisitions snipped}

The sale or other disposition of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall—
(1) Cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and note on the record the method used, and
(2) In the case of a transferee who is an alien legally in the United States and who is other than a licensee—
(i) Verify the identity of the transferee by examining an identification document (as defined in § 478.11 ), and
(ii) Cause the transferee to present documentation establishing that the transferee is a resident of the State (as defined in § 478.11) in which the licensee's business premises is located if the firearm curio or relic is other than a shotgun or rifle, and note on the record the documentation used or is a resident of any State and has resided in such State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm if the firearm curio or relic is a shotgun or rifle and shall note on the record the documentation used. Examples of acceptable documentation include utility bills or a lease agreement which show that the transferee has resided in the State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm curio or relic.
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