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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #201  
Old 07-21-2015, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Ok, and aside from the safety, and handguard, as I already mentioned you can get the buttstock and grip of your choice on a common rifle like say... a remington 700(or any other footprint that people are making those mini-chassis things for that you can bolt AR components to), without limiting your choice in components that are more critical.
I agree. That is the $3-4K option. Not entry level for most people. My Stiller/AICS/Bartlein/Jewell .308 is amazingly accurate, but you can't change the stock or grip without changing the whole chassis which is $1000 alone or even the skins which is several hundred. I'll take "entire new rifle" for $1000, Alex. (Cue Jeopardy music).
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  #202  
Old 07-21-2015, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaytil View Post
I agree. That is the $3-4K option. Not entry level for most people. My Stiller/AICS/Bartlein/Jewell .308 is amazingly accurate, but you can't change the stock or grip without changing the whole chassis which is $1000 alone or even the skins which is several hundred. I'll take "entire new rifle" for $1000, Alex. (Cue Jeopardy music).
Sticking an AR stock and grip on a 700 is not a $3-4k option. Buy an LSS for $400(or the same thing made by a half dozen other companies), attach whatever stock and grip you want, and the difference is going to be the safety and handguard(I suppose you might have to raise the comb to get it as high as the RPR, but that's beside the point). At that point you can still do plenty to the rifle, if you feel like it... with existing components and not paying a smith extra to come up with a work-around for the barrel nut mounted handguard.

Now do I think most of the people buying this are going to be doing barrel and trigger swaps, buying replacement bolts(I'm not talking about the knob), or later on consider changing the stock to something else(other than something with basic AR ergos)? No. I'm simply saying that the only thing less proprietary about this is the mag well, and simply being able to swap out for other AR components isn't something you can't already do with a number of already available parts for rifles.

That doesn't change that it seems to be a good option(so far) at $1000.

Last edited by Merc1138; 07-21-2015 at 2:39 PM..
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  #203  
Old 07-21-2015, 2:44 PM
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Here is another article on the Hide regarding the caliber choice:

http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...place-your-308
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  #204  
Old 07-21-2015, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post


Except all of the major components, the ones that are a contributing factor to performance/precision... are proprietary. That's like saying a remington 700 footprint sucks because you can't bolt a bunch of individual components to it like an AR, even though there are dozens(probably more like hundreds) of stocks available in pretty much any config you could ask for. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the only thing this does, that existing rifles don't, is allow the use of free-float AR handguards and has significantly less available component choice that pretty much anything on the market at the moment(that may change if it's popular enough to stick around, but I'm talking about what's out right now).
All the accuracy contributing factors your referring to( I am guessing receiver, bolt, etc) are patented. Of course those are going to be proprietary. He never even referenced accuracy affecting parts of the rifle. You just jumped to that part to argue.

He's talking about the other stuff--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Ok, and aside from the safety, and handguard, as I already mentioned you can get the buttstock and grip of your choice on a common rifle like say... a remington 700(or any other footprint that people are making those mini-chassis things for that you can bolt AR components to), without limiting your choice in components that are more critical.
Remington 700 with heavier barrel ~$750? Or are heavier barreled ones more these days?
Oh and those aren't avail in 6.5CD(tack in anther $350 for rebarreling)
"Minichasis thing" $400 for MDT on cheap side
Stock ~ $100
Grip ~$40
Gunsmith to thread the barrel ~$100
New trigger because remingtons are garbage ~$150
scope base $~100
Total : at least ~$1600-1900

It seems like you're missing the point.
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Last edited by BillyGoatCrawler; 07-21-2015 at 3:34 PM..
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  #205  
Old 07-21-2015, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It has enough rail on it that you could attach AR type front and rear rail mount sights yourself.
That is true, but then you would run into the issue that you saw with the older Remington 740/7400 series where the sights were so close that accuracy is only good for 200 yards where the rifle itself is good for much further. I guess something it better than nothing though.
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  #206  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:02 PM
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That is true, but then you would run into the issue that you saw with the older Remington 740/7400 series where the sights were so close that accuracy is only good for 200 yards where the rifle itself is good for much further. I guess something it better than nothing though.
The rail goes all the way down the length of the handguard. It won't be any different than iron sights on an AR.
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  #207  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
All the accuracy contributing factors your referring to( I am guessing receiver, bolt, etc) are patented. Of course those are going to be proprietary. He never even referenced accuracy affecting parts of the rifle. You just jumped to that part to argue.

He's talking about the other stuff--



Remington 700 with heavier barrel ~$750? Or are heavier barreled ones more these days?
Oh and those aren't avail in 6.5CD(tack in anther $350 for rebarreling)
"Minichasis thing" $400 for MDT on cheap side
Stock ~ $100
Grip ~$40
Gunsmith to thread the barrel ~$100
New trigger because remingtons are garbage ~$150
scope base $~100
Total : at least ~$1600-1900

It seems like you're missing the point.
And you're arguing for the sake of arguing. He and I were simply discussing something. No one even has the rifle yet other than the press samples Ruger sent out and you guys are defending the thing like it's being attacked. Case in point, you mentioned new trigger because remingtons are garbage(and they are), yet none of us have any experience with the trigger except maybe dry-firing it in a shop a couple of times. Also, $40 for an AR pistol grip? Really(I know 10-15 bucks doesn't make a difference in the long run when totalling up the cost, but come on)? Yet here you are defending the RPR even though I've said that I like the concept of it multiple times, I just don't agree with you 100% regarding everything about it.

Last edited by Merc1138; 07-21-2015 at 4:28 PM..
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  #208  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:48 PM
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Nice spot. Sorry, I meant $30 dollars. So $1590-1890.
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  #209  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
I feel like all the guys who spend a whole lot on their rifles are mad that a decent rifle is being made for a good price.
I don't think they'll be mad at all - if they have enough money to afford a 3K+ custom rigs, They'll buy this too just to mess around with.

At a minimum it will re-affirm why they spend so much, at best they end up with another great rifle.

No lose :-)
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  #210  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
Nice spot. Sorry, I meant $30 dollars. So $1590-1890.
*sigh*

You like the RPR, I get it. But come on man. If I were really trying to be picky and point out every issue in the post you made, I'd have asked why you would buy a $750 remington rifle just to re-barrel it when you could just buy an action instead since you plan on tossing out the stock and trigger anyway. The leaps you're making to defend the RPR against the cost of a custom rifle are just outright silly, when no one is seriously comparing it to the cost of a custom rifle(except other than the note the attractive price of it).

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Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
I don't think they'll be mad at all - if they have enough money to afford a 3K+ custom rigs, They'll buy this too just to mess around with.

At a minimum it will re-affirm why they spend so much, at best they end up with another great rifle.

No lose :-)
Pretty much. The thing is priced well enough that you can buy it as a "why the hell not?" and it's not a big deal. But I guess people are expecting anger over it or something.

Last edited by Merc1138; 07-21-2015 at 5:05 PM..
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  #211  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:57 PM
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I'd say this is closer to a tube-gun than an MDT style chassis. The tube gun format was actually a big draw for me.
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  #212  
Old 07-21-2015, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
I'd say this is closer to a tube-gun than an MDT style chassis. The tube gun format was actually a big draw for me.
With regard to the stock and receiver position, definitely.
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  #213  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:10 PM
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I have had a chance to handle one of these new Ruger's, and I give it a thumbs up. Looks to me like Ruger took a good look at what is going on in popular gun culture, and have responded with a package that perfectly fits its niche, at a price that should serve as a wake up call to its competitors. I like the receiver, which is set up with controls that anybody who's ever shot an AR-15 would be at home with. The weight and taper of the barrel are well chosen for tactical play, and the muzzle is threaded for convenience. The top rail extends the length of the forearm, which allows for some versatility. The bolt is heavy bodied three lug construction, similar to the Barnard (I'm a big fan of barnard actions, so favor this style of bolt) although the action is not as smooth as a barnard, still it is a nice style and indeed solid. The trigger has a safety on it similar to the savage accutrigger, and it is adjustable. I was not able to try the adjustments, so I cannot speak its range, but at the factory setting, it was crisp and much better than the average off the shelf rifle. The rifle comes with a couple of Magpul mags which went in well, came out well, and did not wobble in place. I was told that some other makers mags also will work with the system, but the magpul mags seem like a solid choice. The safety and grip are all AR, and the literature says they are compatible with aftermarket versions of these parts. The Stock is a folder, and the adjustable components are just that, all adjustable, including the butt plate which is adjustable for tilt, pull, cheek height etc. The finish was standard black rifle, and the bolt handle/ knob are well shaped and placed. The rifle comes in three excellent choices for cartridge. For what was there to see, I liked it, and I'd say that if your in the market for this type of rifle, it is worth checking out.
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Last edited by bridgeport; 07-21-2015 at 5:13 PM..
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  #214  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
*sigh*

You like the RPR, I get it. But come on man. If I were really trying to be picky and point out every issue in the post you made, I'd have asked why you would buy a $750 remington rifle just to re-barrel it when you could just buy an action instead since you plan on tossing out the stock and trigger anyway. The leaps you're making to defend the RPR against the cost of a custom rifle are just outright silly, when no one is seriously comparing it to the cost of a custom rifle(except other than the note the attractive price of it).



Pretty much. The thing is priced well enough that you can buy it as a "why the hell not?" and it's not a big deal. But I guess people are expecting anger over it or something.
The barrel fee wasn't really even added into that rough calc. It was just a thought thrown in there.

LoL I actually don't like it that much. I just don't like the "to get into LR you need to spend more money, period." mindset. It sure helps in areas, but in some cases, it's an attitude of elitism.

You consider defending that it is more non proprietary than most market offered guns huge leaps and outright silly? You know what is outright silly? Guys coming onto a gun thread and sticking to defending and justifying other guns than the one in topic for 6 pages.
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  #215  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
The barrel fee wasn't really even added into that rough calc. It was just a thought thrown in there.

LoL I actually don't like it that much. I just don't like the "to get into LR you need to spend more money, period." mindset. It sure helps in areas, but in some cases, it's an attitude of elitism.

You consider defending that it is more non proprietary than most market offered guns huge leaps and outright silly? You know what is outright silly? Guys coming onto a gun thread and sticking to defending and justifying other guns than the one in topic for 6 pages.
And now you're definitely complaining just for the sake of it. Do you seriously expect no one to compare it to other rifles in the course of conversation? Discussing how features are similar to other rifles, or how components vary is no longer allowed? I haven't said "to get into LR you need to spend more money, period.", how many times do I need to state that I like the feature set and price of the thing before you understand that? Or did you just admit to complaining for the sake of complaining?
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  #216  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
I'd say this is closer to a tube-gun than an MDT style chassis. The tube gun format was actually a big draw for me.
Cali, strictly in regard to the feel of this( the Ruger) compared to a tube gun, tube guns have larger diameter forearm tubes. The Ruger tube is narrower like an AR's narrow front rail. it felt to me more like what we used to call "space guns" where you had the custom adjustable stock on an AR, except that when I shot space guns, they had the older style forearm rather than the narrow rail front ends popular now, and that are on the new Ruger.
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  #217  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bridgeport View Post
Merc, strictly in regard to the feel of this compared to a tube gun, tube guns have larger diameter forearm tubes. The Ruger tube is narrower like an AR's narrow front rail. it felt to me more like what we used to call "space guns" where you had the custom adjustable stock, except that when I shot space guns, they had the older style forearm rather than the narrow rail front ends popular now.
Well sure, but you could just swap out the forend if you really wanted to(ruger is using an off the shelf AR rail).
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  #218  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:37 PM
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You win, Merc. GJ!
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  #219  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
I don't think they'll be mad at all - if they have enough money to afford a 3K+ custom rigs, They'll buy this too just to mess around with.

At a minimum it will re-affirm why they spend so much, at best they end up with another great rifle.

No lose :-)
Correct. I'm no stranger to spending money on rifles but I plan on getting one of these if for nothing but just to satisfy my curiosity. If it proves anywhere as decent as initial testing suggest it will, at the very least, be a great rifle to use as a loaner to students and to let them know they can get into the game without breaking the bank. People need to divest their egos from their equipment choices.
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  #220  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Well sure, but you could just swap out the forend if you really wanted to(ruger is using an off the shelf AR rail).
Smart cookie merc, I wasn't even thinking of swapping the rail, just that it comes with a narrow rail.

One of the things I like about the Ruger is it shows that the Majors are starting to respond to changes in the shooting community, and more importantly, catering to the segment of the market that wants to either start out, or up their existing game, with something that works out of the box, and has some cachet. In my opinion, we need more of this.
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  #221  
Old 07-21-2015, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bridgeport View Post
I have had a chance to handle one of these new Ruger's, and I give it a thumbs up. Looks to me like Ruger took a good look at what is going on in popular gun culture, and have responded with a package that perfectly fits its niche, at a price that should serve as a wake up call to its competitors. I like the receiver, which is set up with controls that anybody who's ever shot an AR-15 would be at home with. The weight and taper of the barrel are well chosen for tactical play, and the muzzle is threaded for convenience. The top rail extends the length of the forearm, which allows for some versatility. The bolt is heavy bodied three lug construction, similar to the Barnard (I'm a big fan of barnard actions, so favor this style of bolt) although the action is not as smooth as a barnard, still it is a nice style and indeed solid. The trigger has a safety on it similar to the savage accutrigger, and it is adjustable. I was not able to try the adjustments, so I cannot speak its range, but at the factory setting, it was crisp and much better than the average off the shelf rifle. The rifle comes with a couple of Magpul mags which went in well, came out well, and did not wobble in place. I was told that some other makers mags also will work with the system, but the magpul mags seem like a solid choice. The safety and grip are all AR, and the literature says they are compatible with aftermarket versions of these parts. The Stock is a folder, and the adjustable components are just that, all adjustable, including the butt plate which is adjustable for tilt, pull, cheek height etc. The finish was standard black rifle, and the bolt handle/ knob are well shaped and placed. The rifle comes in three excellent choices for cartridge. For what was there to see, I liked it, and I'd say that if your in the market for this type of rifle, it is worth checking out.
I agree.

Last edited by g5m; 07-21-2015 at 6:08 PM.. Reason: info.
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  #222  
Old 07-21-2015, 7:42 PM
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I agree.
I agree also. Checked one out today. Very nice. Nice as my Tikka 595 Master Sporter. Ordered one in 6.5 CM. The way I see it though the rifle has some heft with a new barrel contoured this thing could lose a lb or two and make a decent hunting rifle also. Easy switch barrel once set up. Also like the safety as it is 45* switch. Trigger was very light dry firing it. Overall very impressed. Impressed enough to put in an order. Now I will have to spend some cash on a scope that meets the performance of the round.
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  #223  
Old 07-21-2015, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
Remington 700 with heavier barrel ~$750? Or are heavier barreled ones more these days?
Oh and those aren't avail in 6.5CD(tack in anther $350 for rebarreling)
"Minichasis thing" $400 for MDT on cheap side
Stock ~ $100
Grip ~$40
Gunsmith to thread the barrel ~$100
New trigger because remingtons are garbage ~$150
scope base $~100
Total : at least ~$1600-1900
standish, a $1,600 R700 is a partially complete rifle, or someone got poor quality components and work done. The reason for upgrades and customization is to get the rifle EXACTLY how you want it. That's why the fairly standard R700 type rifle appeals to people as they can go slowly and budget the upgrades. You do not need to get it all done at one time. The single upgrade that is universally needed on mass produced rifles is the barrel. A barrel of the best performance plus installation is about $600 for a short action (assuming you are getting brake work). However, for learning, I think that the factory 308 barrels from all the reputable makers are okay. It will take 5,000-7,000 rounds to burn out a 308 barrel unless you are juicing it. In the time one spends burning out his barrel, he will then have enough practice to make good decisions about what work he needs.

You have an R700. If you have a reasonable stock like HS or Bell, that's good enough. You will find that it works quite well as when it is time for your replacement, you should get a new stainless recoil lug pinned to the receiver as they are not expensive and that lets you change barrels and return to the same headspace. After you have shot out your 308 barrel and you go to a great barrel, the difference will be day and night.

Like Merc, I am not quite understanding the argument about all the proprietary stuff. You can have a complete R700 without a single part by Remington. Typically, the only part left on the gun from Remington is the receiver, which has been trued so it isn't even a R700 spec receiver. Then, there's half a dozen companies that make R700 clone receivers to get higher tolerances, so you can have your R700 without a single part that is made by Remington.

For magazines, it's the Accuacy International, which are the most popular to use. But, now that magpul is making a magazine that fits the Accuracy International compatible metal bottoms, you do not even have a bottom that is limiting you in options. The problem with the plastic short action magazines is that they typically do not allow for longer loads. The AICS is popular since it does 2.88. Thus, if you want to load long in a short action magazine, then you probably should be looking at the 6BR or 6 Dasher cartridges that aren't going to be limited in length. I do agree that it is a bit silly that manufacturers don't just give you the option of using a common metal bottom, rather they give you some internal mag crap so you have to spend $200 to get the magazine system if your stock needs the work and inletting for the right fit.

There are a few things I do not like about the R700 style rifles, but they do give you a lot more flexibility as the parts are so easy to get. As mentioned earlier, I like the fact that it is easy to get a small firing pin hole bolt with an R700 as it's a must have feature for a lot of the really good small primer cartridges. My personal favorite rifles do not have this option readily available. It is little things like this, where, if people look at it in the long run, you want a lot of little options that were not even in your mind at the outset of the purchase. We all learn as we go.

I think this RPR is good option for folks to get their foot in the door if they are used to shooting an AR-15 as the ergs are somewhat similar. I have gotten several budget rifles while learning is that they are mostly retired. After burning out the barrels, they simply were not worth putting money in.

I think you know by know that I care mostly about the barrel and trigger. The issue with the RPR is that we do not know what triggers will be available (maybe I missed that--is it compatible with the R700 triggers?). If not, that's one of the biggest problems with the R700 for me was getting a trigger that I liked. They simply weren't out on the market. Since I am a rare 2-stage guy, I have found that Huber makes the right trigger for me. There are a lot of mindless people that will simply look at either Jewell or Timney as that is what other people do. In my case, I do not like either of these popular choices, which is why I have ended up with triggers that are a bit more pricey. For me, they are worth every penny. For others, the factory or a Timney may be just fine. Will the RPR fit new triggers? Based on the specs of 2.25-5.5lbs that sounds more like a hunting trigger, and from the cut out, the trigger looks quite proprietary. As we all knew that when Remington came out with the XMP they claimed it was an adjustable trigger with similar properties.
http://www.remington.com/pages/xmark-pro-trigger.aspx
In reality, we have found the XMP to be pretty much junk.

Thus, it is a few cautionary things where one might read or see characteristics on paper, but in real life it isn't going to be up to par. (I do not know as I have never used one yet.)
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  #224  
Old 07-21-2015, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
The mag system alone is enough to make me happy to see in a big production company.
Standish, I'd also encourage you to look at the features that allow the multi-mag system. You need to ask why this rifle is made to do so and why others have not. I looked the rifle up and it appears that they are using a design in their bolt lugs to help assist this process. They have placed a lug at 6 o'clock and applied a 70 degree turn for engagement. Thus, I am assuming with this configuration it is a 3-lug bolt. Personally, I am a big fan of 3-lug bolts when they are done properly.

Typically, on 3-lug bolts, a 60 degree throw is employed as the lugs sit at 12 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 8 o'clock as they go down the raceway. Then, with this design you have the shorter throw and it is engaged after 60 degrees, and you end up with nice symmetric engagement. I'd be a little cautious with 3-lug bolts that aren't set up well as the actions tend to be a little disappointing (like the R770). The position of the lugs have a lot to do with how cleanly the bolt cycles, engages, and disengages. With these shorter 60 degree 3-lug bolts, the plus is that you can cycle faster. The catch is that if it isn't done just right, you end up cycling slower as the bolt requires more torque to operate. With a traditional 90 degree throw 2-lug bolt, you are inherently gaining a mechanical advantage with greater leverage.

This is why I'd exercise caution before touting the multi-mag system as sometimes you must give to get. Thus, it'll depend on what you feel is worth it in total. I've seen some actions with this configuration, and I haven't really liked them. We'll just have to see how it ends up working. Again, I haven't operated these new Rugers.
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Old 07-21-2015, 9:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
I haven't said "to get into LR you need to spend money, period."
Merc, if you haven't said it, I'll say it. LR does come at a price. Forget about the rifle for a moment, your LR will suffer if you top it off with a cheap Chinese scope that can't hold a zero. Having a decent optic is important. Thus, before we have fired a single round, that doubles the price of the rifle for an entry level precision scope. Then, when it comes to ammunition, that's even more important than the rifle itself. Good ammunition requires time and money, period. A lot of this is in the projectiles you use along with the requisite precision gear to reload accurate ammo. The dies to produce the greatest concentricity and uniformity as well as good geometrical brass for your chamber cost money.

When you put together your entire setup from loading gear to other equipment, things are getting pricey. It goes well beyond just a rifle. A Kestrel costs the same amount no matter what rifle you have. The same is true with a rangefinder, spotting scope, tripod, chronograph, etc. So, yes, to a large extent, unfortunately, one must spend money.

I can completely understand why a lot of folks do not get into this due to money. For example, Standish, I believe he is a student so it is likely that he isn't earning enough money to have a lot of discretionary funds to pay for school and rifle equipment. There are lots of folks like this that simply need to be patient. If you simply can't afford, you can't afford it, and that is fine.

Now, on the other hand, what I have observed that is a larger factor in dictating gear is simply the level of commitment one has to guns and his marksmanship. The folks that take it very seriously will end up buying nice stuff in spite of a lower wage. That is because they frequently forgo other aspects of expenditures in life such as luxury cars and the like. I see plenty of folks drive up to the range in their nice German cars, then when it comes to riflegear, it's Chinese crap. This simply illustrates that guns and/or marksmanship comes at a low priority some people. That is perfectly fine as we all have these choices in life and it is up to each person where they want to spend his money. There are many gun owners that just occasionally shoot, and if you asked them if they would rather have a Rolex watch or a really nice rifle, they'd opt for the watch. In fact, it isn't a hypothetical, I've seen it many times over. I am the type of person that would opt for the rifle.
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Old 07-21-2015, 9:43 PM
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JMP, I apppreciate your info. You know my setup.

"Like Merc, I am not quite understanding the argument about all the proprietary stuff. You can have a complete R700 without a single part by Remington. Typically, the only part left on the gun from Remington is the receiver, which has been trued so it isn't even a R700 spec receiver. Then, there's half a dozen companies that make R700 clone receivers to get higher tolerances, so you can have your R700 without a single part that is made by Remington."

That is basically what I have. Barrel is still stock and receiver/bolt, everything else aftermarket but it shoots <1/2 MOA at range. So I am keeping it running until I burn it out. It will become a 6.5CD later probably. I am not intending to get one of these Ruger rifles. Never said I was.

As far as the trigger. I am not sure exactly on Rugers. They advertise an adjustable trigger with a tool that it stowed in the bolt(they made the trigger allen the same size as most scope turrets for standardization). I imagine if they did this step, the trigger will be pretty nice. Not a jewell, but if they can get timney performance, I would be impressed. That's what I shoot in my R700.

For the bolt lugs, you have much more experienced than I do. I will take note of that when I get my hands on my buddy's RPR.
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Old 07-21-2015, 9:45 PM
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I'd say the main thing I am skeptical on this rifle is the main thing I am excited to see; the mag system. What they are claiming is very hard to do reliably. Reliable feeding from 3+ different mag types?
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Old 07-21-2015, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standish View Post
That is basically what I have. Barrel is still stock and receiver/bolt, everything else aftermarket but it shoots <1/2 MOA at range. So I am keeping it running until I burn it out. It will become a 6.5CD later probably. I am not intending to get one of these Ruger rifles. Never said I was.
From American Rifleman on the RPR, just for reference, as it sounds that you are getting more favorable results in your 700. In this test, they used 6.5CD, which tends to produce better groups, which it did not.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...ecision-rifle/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Standish View Post
As far as the trigger. I am not sure exactly on Rugers. They advertise an adjustable trigger with a tool that it stowed in the bolt(they made the trigger allen the same size as most scope turrets for standardization). I imagine if they did this step, the trigger will be pretty nice. Not a jewell, but if they can get timney performance, I would be impressed. That's what I shoot in my R700.
My point was that when Remington came out with the X-Mark Pro trigger, it was highly marketed as an adjustable trigger similarly to Rugers. It was a gigantic failure by any fair assessment. So, we need to hope the Ruger trigger comes out well as it doesn't appear to be easily swapped out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Standish View Post
For the bolt lugs, you have much more experienced than I do. I will take note of that when I get my hands on my buddy's RPR.

I'd say the main thing I am skeptical on this rifle is the main thing I am excited to see; the mag system. What they are claiming is very hard to do reliably. Reliable feeding from 3+ different mag types?
It was just an observation in the configuration as the article says that they are using a lug positioned at 6 o'clock along the raceway to assist with feeding, which is why they probably have more compatibility. I don't doubt that it'll feed from the mags, but with the 70 degree bolt throw and 3-lug bolt, it's definitely going to be a different feel from some of the other designs, and I am not sure how they've gotten the other lugs lined up or the position of the extractor. Sometimes they may do a side extractor or sometimes they may put it inside of a 3rd lug. A 3-lug gives a different feel from a 2-lug. 3-lug seems to be more of European preference as the famed European sniper rifles (Accuracy International and TRG have a 3-lug 60 degree throw) and they have it down like butter with ease of opening the bolt, despite the decreased mechanical advantage. US actions typically use a 2-lug on opposite sides that feed straight down the raceway and the bolt engages with 90 degrees (such as you'd see in your Remington 700 style or Savage). The one custom action I know makes a 3-lug well is BAT, although the 2-lug is more popular. In US rifles, we've seen the 3-lug 60 degree throw botched a bit in rifles like the Remington 770. So, it's one of those things where it can be made great, but with the added contact surfaces, it can also make it clunkier without the requisite tolerances. This is what we'll have to see. 2-lug vs. 3-lug is purely preferential.
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
You mean the same things other than your choice of handguard that you get from plenty of manufacturers for other actions? I don't see how you could put a grip, buttstock, and handguard above the barrel, bolt, action, and trigger regarding the performance of a precision rifle.

Larry Vickers would say "you don't even know what you don't know"...
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
That is basically what I have. Barrel is still stock and receiver/bolt, everything else aftermarket but it shoots <1/2 MOA at range. So I am keeping it running until I burn it out. It will become a 6.5CD later probably.
This is a good practice. Right now, the 6.5 Creedmoor is turning into somewhat of a fanboy cartridge. After you put a few thousand more rounds of 308 down the tube, you may change your tune. When you try your buddy's 6.5 RPR, yes, you will be impressed by the greatly improved ballistics. The 139-142gr 6.5 bullets are ballistically more efficient than anything you would shoot out of a 308. You will also be pushing them at a higher velocity, and it is a cartridge that's easily tuned for great accuracy. BUT, at the same time, the "obsolete" 308 Winchester is still a great round for close to intermediate ranges and for general purpose shooting it's pretty hard to beat to 400 yards, and it is PLENTY accurate to 600-800 yards.

If you are going to be shooting in precision matches, the 6.5 Creedmoor is definitely a major advantage. However, what happens is that very experienced 308 shooters will adapt very well to the wind, and the trajectory of the 308 is very true in the way that it is influenced by wind. Thus, since most of the shooting that an average person does is within 500 yards, you may find that you just want to stick with good ol' 308.

My gut tells me that you are the kind of guy that would be better off moving up to a Lapua Magnum rather than down to a 6.5 to get a lot more range than a little more range with a 6.5. It seems that the choices are getting wider, and it is possible to get a budget Lapua setup.
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Old 07-22-2015, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Larry Vickers would say "you don't even know what you don't know"...
Wasn't that Donald Rumsfeld(who was probably quoting something else)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuzxjwXVXE
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Old 07-22-2015, 1:22 AM
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Wasn't that Donald Rumsfeld(who was probably quoting something else)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuzxjwXVXE
Probably.
I just attribute it to Vickers because he keeps using it and it's often spot-on.
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Old 07-22-2015, 7:23 AM
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I ordered one in 6.5 yesterday. Turners said they had just been informed by Ruger that it will be 2-3 months before they are delivered.

Anyone else hearing this? The Turners in Orange said they had just been told this yesterday.

I am hoping it will arrive sooner. Maybe it will end up being a Christmas present to myself.

At least I have time to choose the scope...
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Old 07-22-2015, 7:44 AM
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Much have sold better then fresh hot cakes... Or very..... Limited stock.
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Old 07-22-2015, 7:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ApexGT3 View Post
I ordered one in 6.5 yesterday. Turners said they had just been informed by Ruger that it will be 2-3 months before they are delivered.

Anyone else hearing this? The Turners in Orange said they had just been told this yesterday.

I am hoping it will arrive sooner. Maybe it will end up being a Christmas present to myself.

At least I have time to choose the scope...
I called a Turners Pasadena yesterday and they said that the orders now would be delivered in approximately 2-3 months from now too. I was hoping they would have a floor model to check out, but apparently the ones they did have in stock sold out the first day. Selling like hotcakes. I am tempted to put one on order too...
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Old 07-22-2015, 8:55 AM
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Anybody else get this lovely email from Turners on their RPR? I can guarantee its the last time I attempt to purchase a rifle from them.

weborders <weborders@turners.com>
8:06 AM (47 minutes ago)

to me
Hey,

Unfortunately we have issued a computer system error and have over sold the gun you have ordered. We are working with Ruger to find out how long it will take to get these guns back in stock. As of now it is looking like 1-2 months. If you would like to cancel your order all your money will be refunded back to you and if you would like to keep the order we will charge you 30% now and then charge the remainder when the gun ships. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Thank you,
Web Orders
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  #237  
Old 07-22-2015, 9:40 AM
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I put money down on one yesterday at Turners and was told there would be about a month wait per Ruger.

I strongly suspect that no one not even Ruger expected this rifle to be such a hot item.

Every gun site and gun rag has articles and reviews, there are threads about it on damn near every forum and there's even a brand new forum specifically for this rifle!
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Old 07-22-2015, 9:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
Anybody else get this lovely email from Turners on their RPR? I can guarantee its the last time I attempt to purchase a rifle from them.

weborders <weborders@turners.com>
8:06 AM (47 minutes ago)

to me
Hey,

Unfortunately we have issued a computer system error and have over sold the gun you have ordered. We are working with Ruger to find out how long it will take to get these guns back in stock. As of now it is looking like 1-2 months. If you would like to cancel your order all your money will be refunded back to you and if you would like to keep the order we will charge you 30% now and then charge the remainder when the gun ships. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Thank you,
Web Orders
Turnerís Outdoorsman
Yep.

I strongly suspect they changed their minds about online orders and shifted available inventory to their stores. Oh well; I have inquiries in to my local guys.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by caponord View Post
I strongly suspect they changed their minds about online orders and shifted available inventory to their stores. Oh well; I have inquiries in to my local guys.
The local stores are telling people 2-3 months.
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  #240  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:23 AM
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They had inventory count listed online and you could see them clicking off after it was announced. There were 5 when I started placing my order, 4 left when I finished. Someone at turners entered those rifles into their inventory. Now they are gone.... "over sold"

Firearms should not be something that can be "over sold." These aren't airline seats. You need to log these in and maintain records for them.

I really hope they get audited over this.

Sorry for the thread jacking... for those that do get their RPRs, I hope you enjoy them, looks like a great rifle at a great price

Last edited by calshipbuilder; 07-22-2015 at 10:53 AM.. Reason: grammar
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