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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #121  
Old 07-19-2015, 7:36 PM
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I'll be looking at this rifle closely to maybe get into F class - one feature that I really like is the easy barrel changeout, so I can custom barrel it with any length and twist I like at a reasonable cost...
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  #122  
Old 07-19-2015, 8:01 PM
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all in all, seems interesting. I'd appreciate hearing when someone actually shoots one
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  #123  
Old 07-19-2015, 8:48 PM
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Ok, I understand he said what he said about pistol grips not part of the stock now.

My original post and what I said was that AI is selling rifles only with pistol grips, as pistol grips seem to be the "in thing." His responsive post saying "no they are not" because the pistol grip is not part of the "stock" or "chassis" does not follow as that was not my point or my post.

Whether the pistol is a structural part of the stock/chassis, or whether it is part of the skin, is irrelevant as my point is simply that Ruger is using a pistol grip on the Precision Rifle as that seems to be the in thing, as even AI is selling rifle only with pistol grips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
What JMP saying isn’t wrong, the pistol grip isn’t a structural part of the chassis… it’s a property of the chassis SKINS…

If you remove the skins from the chassis in the picture you posted… the chassis will look identical to what he posted.
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  #124  
Old 07-19-2015, 8:55 PM
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This pistol grip argument is ridiculous.
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  #125  
Old 07-19-2015, 9:15 PM
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I'm sure glad you guys are comparing AI parts to Ruger. Says something right there.
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  #126  
Old 07-19-2015, 9:50 PM
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This pistol grip argument is ridiculous.
Agreed.
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  #127  
Old 07-19-2015, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
This pistol grip argument is ridiculous.
Some people are not satisfied unless they can find something to argue about on the internet.
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  #128  
Old 07-19-2015, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by davedog01 View Post
Can someone talk me out of one of these in .308? That would be a natural in my collection. The last thing I want is to have to buy another caliber of ammo for my stash. Would I be disappointed in the .308? Is the 6.5 a common round kept in stock at most gun stores? I don't reload. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.
Talk you out of one in 308…?

Consider the price of ammo... the price of match ammo between 6.5 Creedmoor, 243 and 308 is very similar… about $1.00 to $1.30 per round.

I think the coolest thing about it is that it’s offered in 6.5 Creedmoor and 243 Win (6mm) with a fast twist barrel, not the typical 1:9.25 or 1:9 twist. You really don’t see many factory rifles with those cartridge or twist options.

If you want a 308, everyone makes one, take your pick as you have many options to choose from.
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  #129  
Old 07-19-2015, 10:24 PM
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One advantage to the 308 is barrel life. However the 6.5 is a great round.
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  #130  
Old 07-19-2015, 11:24 PM
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I wonder if anyone has one of these in the Bay Area.
I would love to handle one.
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  #131  
Old 07-20-2015, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chairmnofthboard View Post
One advantage to the 308 is barrel life. However the 6.5 is a great round.
That is true... barrel life is better on the 308.

The 6.5 is still mild mannered when compared to the 243.

If you are buying factory match ammo and can afford to shoot out a 6.5 barrel, it would be safe to assume you can also afford to replace it.
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  #132  
Old 07-20-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by caponord View Post
It would work great with a side-pull upper...
You have a great idea.

I think the stock will work well with something like the Arak-21 upper. You can fold the stock and adjustable cheek piece will solve the height issue.
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  #133  
Old 07-20-2015, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtake View Post
Ok, I understand he said what he said about pistol grips not part of the stock now.

My original post and what I said was that AI is selling rifles only with pistol grips, as pistol grips seem to be the "in thing." His responsive post saying "no they are not" because the pistol grip is not part of the "stock" or "chassis" does not follow as that was not my point or my post.

Whether the pistol is a structural part of the stock/chassis, or whether it is part of the skin, is irrelevant as my point is simply that Ruger is using a pistol grip on the Precision Rifle as that seems to be the in thing, as even AI is selling rifle only with pistol grips.
Yes, indeed. You don't have much experience with AI products. The new line has no structural changes. In both the new and old lines pistol grips or thumbholes have been optional features. It's purely preference and has nothing to do with the actual stock.

I believe that the pistol grips are now becoming a more popular configuration for marketing due to the fact that a lot of AR shooters are getting into bolt rifles. However, if you look at the folks that shoot accurately, they will nearly universally be using a grip that is larger than an AR type pistol grip. If you notice the "new" AI stocks, folks will opt to get them with the larger pistol grip which in terms of contact area provides similar ergonomics to the old thumbhole stock or any cannonical design such as those offered by McMillan, Manners, etc.

You should not buy something based on what is popular, you should buy things from experience. If an AR-15 grip works for you, then that is a good way to go. However, you will be in the extreme minority among folks that shoot accurately.
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  #134  
Old 07-20-2015, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standish View Post
This pistol grip argument is ridiculous.
There was no pistol grip argument. It was someone that simply didn't understand the structure of a stock. That misunderstanding has now been corrected.
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  #135  
Old 07-20-2015, 11:11 AM
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After reviewing the specs, I think the only thing I would change would be he barrel length on the 308.

I would have at least provided the option for a 24" barrel on the 308 model, especially since they are touting it as a long range rifle.

However, this is a rather minor complaint and I would love to have one of them.
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  #136  
Old 07-20-2015, 11:20 AM
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Oh for craps sake knock off the thread crapping about the damn pistol grip on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PRODUCT!!

I have to wade though all this nonsense and posturing about who is 'right' about something that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and dig around for what I clicked on this thread to find out about in the first place?

WHY??
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  #137  
Old 07-20-2015, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungi View Post
After reviewing the specs, I think the only thing I would change would be he barrel length on the 308.

I would have at least provided the option for a 24" barrel on the 308 model, especially since they are touting it as a long range rifle.

However, this is a rather minor complaint and I would love to have one of them.
I agree, different twists would've been nice for the .308 also....1:12 perhaps.
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  #138  
Old 07-20-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chairmnofthboard View Post
I agree, different twists would've been nice for the .308 also....1:12 perhaps.
I would venture to guess it’s just a matter of time, Ruger will have more options/variants for the PR series with different calibers, twists, barrel options, and trim if it turns out to be a successful product for them…

Look at the American series of rifles in general…. It started with the American Standard… then
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  #139  
Old 07-20-2015, 12:45 PM
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Default Ruger Precision Rifle

Soooo, I decided a 20" was ok. Also figured someone on here, located on Los Angeles, with a new www.rprbarrels.com website, could eventually help with a new barrel.
So,.....which muzzle brake?

Last edited by Ruby; 07-20-2015 at 12:48 PM..
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  #140  
Old 07-20-2015, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
I would venture to guess it’s just a matter of time, Ruger will have more options/variants for the PR series with different calibers, twists, barrel options, and trim if it turns out to be a successful product for them…

Look at the American series of rifles in general…. It started with the American Standard… then
American All Weather
American Compact
All Weather Compact
Predator
Ranch
Especially because only an armorers wrench and gauges are necessary to swap barrels. I wouldn't be surprised if the did offer replacement barrels in the future.
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  #141  
Old 07-20-2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
Soooo, I decided a 20" was ok. Also figured someone on here, located on Los Angeles, with a new www.rprbarrels.com website, could eventually help with a new barrel.
So,.....which muzzle brake?
Link doesn't work.
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  #142  
Old 07-20-2015, 12:52 PM
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Default Ruger Precision Rifle

Ha! It doesn't exist yet!! Hopefully he gets on it because I'll be shopping for a 308 24" or 26" heavy!
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  #143  
Old 07-20-2015, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler View Post
I'll be looking at this rifle closely to maybe get into F class - one feature that I really like is the easy barrel changeout, so I can custom barrel it with any length and twist I like at a reasonable cost...
This is one thing that seems to be commonly mentioned. I do not quite understand when people talk about "easy" barrel switch outs. Except for a vast minority of actions, pretty much all barrels go in and out the same way--you screw them on and off.

Thus, most rifles can easily be changed for different applications. You simply need a barrel vice, and action wrench, and a big wrench to give you the leverage. That's why people usually go to a standard size contour like 1.25" so they do not need need to buy a bunch of different size shims for their barrel vice.

The tools for changing out barrels are quite simple, and you can get most of them at your local hardware store for not that much money.

Inevitably, one will almost always want to change out barrels from the original factory barrel. From a 308 bolt, you can shoot hundreds of different cartridges by simply screwing on a different barrel. Some actions are designed with a recoil lug. All you'd want to do when you have this is get a stainless recoil lug pinned to your action and you can swap your barrels around.

It only makes sense to swap barrels as it is infinitely cheaper than buying a different rifle for each cartridge. You will burn out the barrel, and the factory barrel for this rifle is going to be of lesser quality than a premium barrel as it is apparent since they are chrome moly barrels. Most folks that want accuracy shoot from stainless barrels.

In any event, it isn't a big deal as folks agonize over the barrel, and it is the part of the gun that's essentially disposable. That said, it is the most important part of a bolt action rifle to determine accuracy.

So, really all that matters is to get standard (or just one size contour) and stick with a rifle of the same action (that way you need one action wrench, which is about $50 for the average action). Barrel blanks of the highest quality go for about $350 on a short action.
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  #144  
Old 07-20-2015, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
This is one thing that seems to be commonly mentioned. I do not quite understand when people talk about "easy" barrel switch outs. Except for a vast minority of actions, pretty much all barrels go in and out the same way--you screw them on and off.

Thus, most rifles can easily be changed for different applications. You simply need a barrel vice, and action wrench, and a big wrench to give you the leverage. That's why people usually go to a standard size contour like 1.25" so they do not need need to buy a bunch of different size shims for their barrel vice.

The tools for changing out barrels are quite simple, and you can get most of them at your local hardware store for not that much money.

Inevitably, one will almost always want to change out barrels from the original factory barrel. From a 308 bolt, you can shoot hundreds of different cartridges by simply screwing on a different barrel. Some actions are designed with a recoil lug. All you'd want to do when you have this is get a stainless recoil lug pinned to your action and you can swap your barrels around.

It only makes sense to swap barrels as it is infinitely cheaper than buying a different rifle for each cartridge. You will burn out the barrel, and the factory barrel for this rifle is going to be of lesser quality than a premium barrel as it is apparent since they are chrome moly barrels. Most folks that want accuracy shoot from stainless barrels.

In any event, it isn't a big deal as folks agonize over the barrel, and it is the part of the gun that's essentially disposable. That said, it is the most important part of a bolt action rifle to determine accuracy.

So, really all that matters is to get standard (or just one size contour) and stick with a rifle of the same action (that way you need one action wrench, which is about $50 for the average action). Barrel blanks of the highest quality go for about $350 on a short action.
For a Model 700 compatible action, a gunsmith has to machine the barrel tenon to headspace correctly. This is not something you can do with an action wrench and a barrel vise. For designs like the Savage and "Remage" that use a barrel nut, then yes, barrel swaps are pretty easy since you can headspace using gauges then use the barrel nut to keep the barrel tight against the action.

Since the RPR uses AR15 compatible action wrenches, barrel swaps will be even easier since everyone and their mother has an AR15 action wrench.

Here's a nice cutaway showing the RPR's barrel/action/bolt interface... Headspace the barrel, tighten the barrel nut, then install the AR15-compatible handguard nut over the barrel nut. Pretty cool.

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  #145  
Old 07-20-2015, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caponord View Post
For a Model 700 compatible action, a gunsmith has to machine the barrel tenon to headspace correctly.
For an R700 action, you will always need it machined correctly because once you pin a recoil lug to the receiver you get variance in headspace from any standard, you will need the chamber fit correctly, so you are indeed correct. But, the pre-fit barrels and precision are an oxymoron. To get a high precision rifle, the chamber must always be fit.
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  #146  
Old 07-20-2015, 1:39 PM
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Actually on a 700 barrels swaps are easier as they don't require any headspace gauges at all to install. When the barrel is fitted to the gun the headspace is adjusted and after that it will screw into most factory actions with the only caveat being you use the same recoil lug.
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  #147  
Old 07-20-2015, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by caponord View Post
Here's a nice cutaway showing the RPR's barrel/action/bolt interface...
Interesting, thanks for posting that - it looks like there isn't much thread engagement inside the action. But I guess the force of the nut will add some tension to stiffen it all up. Quite a complex part of the gun right there. I'll be interested to see if anything in there ends up loosens up after I put a few hundred rounds through mine. Maybe its designed with the rifling twist direction to continually tighten as its shot?
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  #148  
Old 07-20-2015, 8:22 PM
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Interesting, thanks for posting that - it looks like there isn't much thread engagement inside the action.
That thread engagement actually looks just like a Rem 700, Win 70, Howa 1500, Tikka T3 or any other common bolt rifle.

Most guns have less than 3/4" length of thread engagement.
The general rule on threads is that 4 threads will retain 90% of the force applied to the junction.
Going to 6 or 8 threads does not really make the thread junction significantly stronger as the limit in the junction is the strength of the MATERIAL forming the threads.
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  #149  
Old 07-20-2015, 8:34 PM
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Looks like Ruger has just added a bunch of videos to youtube.





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  #150  
Old 07-20-2015, 8:45 PM
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I felt a .308 model earlier today and it felt good. The stock hinge is solid NO slop at all. Bolt feels solid heavy slight tapered barrel. ITS A SOLID PLATFORM. I hope it shoots as well as its made. If it shoots well then Ruger just stepped on Remington's toes with a heavy foot!
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  #151  
Old 07-20-2015, 8:50 PM
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I really hope this lives up to all the hype.
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  #152  
Old 07-20-2015, 9:31 PM
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I feel like all the guys who spend a whole lot on their rifles are mad that a decent rifle is being made for a good price. Not the Ferrari of precision rifles, but it will be able to hang in there for sure.

I'm loving that they're standardizing so much stuff. No more of this proprietary crap that manufacturers have been forcing us to deal with. This ought to light a fire under the other manufacturers ***. This makes me like Ruger even more since they're not being greedy with proprietary junk.

Now just wait until the flux of guys who try LR and decide ammo is too expensive or it isn't for them flood the market with second hand models of these.
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  #153  
Old 07-20-2015, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Actually on a 700 barrels swaps are easier as they don't require any headspace gauges at all to install. When the barrel is fitted to the gun the headspace is adjusted and after that it will screw into most factory actions with the only caveat being you use the same recoil lug.
That's true. I've wondered how some nut rifles are accurately headspaced if you need a gauge. How does the average person with average tools ensure that the chamber is returned to precise dimensions? I am familiar only with barrels that can return to only one position (completely engaged).

Otherwise, it looks like a pretty good starting point as it provides a lot of features and frills that people like (especially those accustomed to shooting AR-15s). However, I suspect that people will find that the weak point of this rifle will be the barrel as that's almost always the limiting factor for precise shooting. It will probably be "good enough" for folks starting, but I will be interested in seeing what the results are in a stock model. That's why I think the name "Precision Rifle" is a bit misleading as I don't think it'll yield the desired results that you (for example) would consider it a "precision rifle".
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  #154  
Old 07-20-2015, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standish View Post
I feel like all the guys who spend a whole lot on their rifles are mad that a decent rifle is being made for a good price. Not the Ferrari of precision rifles, but it will be able to hang in there for sure.

Now just wait until the flux of guys who try LR and decide ammo is too expensive or it isn't for them flood the market with second hand models of these.
Standish, most of the money that folks spend on higher dollar rifles is for preference in handling. What makes a rifle accurate is the barrel, the ammo, and the shooter. The thing is, that since a good rifle will last a lifetime with simple periodic barrel swaps, the rationale for people to spend more on a gun that feels really good to them is for that same reason--it lasts a lifetime so why not get it to function exactly as you want. Personally, the two things I care most about on a rifle are the barrel and the trigger. Most of the other things are just window dressing.
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  #155  
Old 07-20-2015, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standish View Post
I feel like all the guys who spend a whole lot on their rifles are mad that a decent rifle is being made for a good price. Not the Ferrari of precision rifles, but it will be able to hang in there for sure.

I'm loving that they're standardizing so much stuff. No more of this proprietary crap that manufacturers have been forcing us to deal with. This ought to light a fire under the other manufacturers ***. This makes me like Ruger even more since they're not being greedy with proprietary junk.

Now just wait until the flux of guys who try LR and decide ammo is too expensive or it isn't for them flood the market with second hand models of these.
No more proprietary crap? Looks like a proprietary action/receiver and trigger to me. A chassis with compatibility for an AR buttstock and grip isn't new. The only thing really different is the use of an AR handguard(using a proprietary nut to do it, that appears to rely on a non-standard lip on the barrel that looks like it would drastically limit aftermarket barrel choices without some extra work) and that it can use a couple different magazines.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's likely that this might serve as a great entry point for people. But looking at the major components I see a lot of proprietary-ness(is that even a word? Doesn't sound right).

Last edited by Merc1138; 07-20-2015 at 9:45 PM..
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  #156  
Old 07-20-2015, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
No more proprietary crap? Looks like a proprietary action/receiver and trigger to me. A chassis with compatibility for an AR buttstock and grip isn't new. The only thing really different is the use of an AR handguard(using a proprietary nut to do it, that appears to rely on a non-standard lip on the barrel that looks like it would drastically limit aftermarket barrel choices without some extra work) and that it can use a couple different magazines.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's likely that this might serve as a great entry point for people. But looking at the major components I see a lot of proprietary-ness(is that even a word? Doesn't sound right).
The mag system alone is enough to make me happy to see in a big production company. Sick of the Wyatt, the hs precision, aics, proprietary mags only. It's a great step towards making the market more broad. I guess that's more where I was going with that.

And JMP I can agree with what you said. But, I still feel a bit of what I said is accurate. Maybe not towards you, but that sentiment is definitely out there with some.

Anyways, a buddy of mine got one on order for just under $1k. I'm excited to see what it can offer.
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:09 PM
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That's true. I've wondered how some nut rifles are accurately headspaced if you need a gauge. How does the average person with average tools ensure that the chamber is returned to precise dimensions? I am familiar only with barrels that can return to only one position (completely engaged).

With a 'nut rifle', as you call them, the only thing you are doing with the gauge is setting the headspace, i.e. The distance between the face of the bolt and the barrel. You are just using mechanical means to do what Randall does via machining. The chamber does not change dimensionality at all.

As for precision, the benchrest crowd does remarkably well using Savage guns (no flame wars please, just presenting data).

(Edited for spelling)

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Last edited by jbj; 07-21-2015 at 5:32 AM..
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  #158  
Old 07-20-2015, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Don't get me wrong, I think it's likely that this might serve as a great entry point for people. But looking at the major components I see a lot of proprietary-ness(is that even a word? Doesn't sound right).
I believe that the word you are looking for is "improprietary".



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Old 07-20-2015, 10:19 PM
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With a 'nut rifle', as you call them, the only thing you are doing with the Viagra is setting the headspace, i.e. The distance between the face of the bolt and the barrel. You are just using mechanical means to do what Randall does via machining. The chamber does not change dimensionality at all.

As for precision, the benchrest crowd does remarkably well using Savage guns (no flame wars please, just presenting data).


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I’ve never worked with a nut rifle… so what do you mean by mechanical means?

Throwing a headspace go-gauge into the chamber and just screwing the barrel down till it bottoms out on the gauge and locking the nut? Or are you using a brass case that was fire formed in the same chamber?

Just thinking out loud but does that leave possibility to have small variations in headspace?
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
The mag system alone is enough to make me happy to see in a big production company. Sick of the Wyatt, the hs precision, aics, proprietary mags only. It's a great step towards making the market more broad. I guess that's more where I was going with that.

And JMP I can agree with what you said. But, I still feel a bit of what I said is accurate. Maybe not towards you, but that sentiment is definitely out there with some.

Anyways, a buddy of mine got one on order for just under $1k. I'm excited to see what it can offer.
I agree that magazine systems are a nuisance as it adds about $100-200 to the cost of a rifle that should be a non-issue. I am sure that the factory configuration will shoot just fine for most shooters. Really, an even larger part of self-imposed limitations on accuracy is the ammunition that most folks use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbj View Post
With a 'nut rifle', as you call them, the only thing you are doing with the Viagra is setting the headspace, i.e. The distance between the face of the bolt and the barrel. You are just using mechanical means to do what Randall does via machining. The chamber does not change dimensionality at all.
That isn't answering the question I had. Once you set the nut everything seems to be just fine as most of the time you will not care about +/- 0.001" in the initial setting of your headspace as you form the brass to that chamber. The question was after removing the barrel and reinstalling the barrel, how do you set it to guarantee an identical return to your existing headspace? Any time you need to bring in gauges, it seems like there'd be the opportunity for a small variance and you'd potentially need to resize your brass on the first go if you were 0.001 too far in, or shoot brass that isn't well sized if you were slightly further out. It's the process that folks use to ensure exact repeatability that I am curious about as chamber gauges are only precise to a certain level.
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