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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #2521  
Old 07-15-2015, 4:00 PM
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I jut got into buying silver. I'm not buying to flip later, more of a SHTF currency stores. What is a good amount a person should have in your guys' opinion?
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  #2522  
Old 07-15-2015, 4:09 PM
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In my opinion.. Zero

If the shtf literally everything else is more useful. Who cares about shiny trinkets if you are thirsty, hungry or need ammo. Find something else to stockpile...
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  #2523  
Old 07-15-2015, 4:25 PM
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Default What you can carry

Any more than you can carry is just something you have to defend.

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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
I jut got into buying silver. I'm not buying to flip later, more of a SHTF currency stores. What is a good amount a person should have in your guys' opinion?
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  #2524  
Old 07-15-2015, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
I jut got into buying silver. I'm not buying to flip later, more of a SHTF currency stores. What is a good amount a person should have in your guys' opinion?
The answer to your question is ENTIRELY subjective and will thus vary from person to person. What do you consider "SHTF"? Given the "SHTF" you anticipate, how do you foresee owning silver will help?

There are those here (such as smashycrashy) who think silver will be entirely useless in any SHTF scenario. There are others here who are mindful of past events (e.g. the Nazis coming to power in WWII Europe) wherein owning gold and silver was EXTREMELY important because it allowed some folks to buy their way to freedom (e.g. out of the country). If situations like this fall into your "SHTF", the answer to your question might be based upon how many people you need to get out of the country (or area, or whatever) and how much you silver or gold you think that might require.

So... what do you mean by "SHTF"? How would owning silver help in that situation?
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  #2525  
Old 07-15-2015, 4:35 PM
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Got a few questions for ya’ll. I went to the local shop today to find out about buying some silver. Looks like $1.70 over spot for rounds and $3 over spot for minted coins (seems about the same as online). They have to order; you buy at today’s price but don’t get it for like a week.

Anyway, I guess I’m wondering if there is any reason to pay more for minted coins vs rounds? More recognizable for trade? I don’t know. What do you guys think. Is it worth an extra 8% for minted coins (totaling like 20% over spot)? I’m not like super prepper or anything but my thought is if the dollar ever takes a **** it would be nice to have some physical PMs around. I am thinking of 1oz silver because they seem like a good trading size (like a pocket full of 20s vs trying to get change for bugger bills)
Thanks
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  #2526  
Old 07-15-2015, 4:38 PM
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Good points guys, and thanks for the input.
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  #2527  
Old 07-15-2015, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Not a Cook View Post
The answer to your question is ENTIRELY subjective and will thus vary from person to person. What do you consider "SHTF"? Given the "SHTF" you anticipate, how do you foresee owning silver will help?

There are those here (such as smashycrashy) who think silver will be entirely useless in any SHTF scenario. There are others here who are mindful of past events (e.g. the Nazis coming to power in WWII Europe) wherein owning gold and silver was EXTREMELY important because it allowed some folks to buy their way to freedom (e.g. out of the country). If situations like this fall into your "SHTF", the answer to your question might be based upon how many people you need to get out of the country (or area, or whatever) and how much you silver or gold you think that might require.

So... what do you mean by "SHTF"? How would owning silver help in that situation?
The world we live in today is far from that of the early 1900's. WWI and WWII might have well been a thousand years ago. People are of a different breed today. Add to that the fact that there are fewer and fewer places where Americans could safely escape to. Not saying it can't be done just saying it would be difficult for most to survive once they got there. Now if that was not bad enough. Years ago most countries in the middle east loved Americans and the American way of life. Today that is not so much the case. We are despised south of our borders. If and when the dollar crashes other countries will have little use for us in general.
Besides if gold and silver is priced in us dollars when said dollar crashes how will we know the value of gold?
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  #2528  
Old 07-15-2015, 5:51 PM
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The whole "buy your way out of trouble" with gold/silver is waaayyyyy over rated INMHO, based on first hand accounts from my friends Jewish grandmother who was a concentration camp survivor.
She was the sole surviving member of her immediate family of 8 and most of her extended family as well.

They were Hungarians and when the Germans started rounding up Jews, her father tried to buy their way out of the round up by paying some soldiers with gold coins. She said the soldiers agreed and took the gold, only to "arrest" them.

She went on to tell of how all the family members had hid more gold upon themselves in very graphic details. I was 14-15 when she told us these stories and to hear such graphic details from a old lady was very disturbing.

So they were then deported to Poland where they were held for 6 months and then were scheduled to be moved "to more favorable locations". Her dad figured out what was going to happen and once again tried to bribe/buy the family's freedom with gold.
She told how the officer accepted the gold coins and shook her dad's hand....a very rare thing for a German to touch a Jew...and then ordered them arrested and placed on trucks. That was the last she ever saw of her family. And the only way she did not get shipped out with her family was another family had held onto her.

She said she witnessed "hundreds" of people try and bribe guards, officers, etc., only to have their gold, silver, or jewels taken and then turned in.

She was then sent to Stutthof concentration camp where she worked in the soap factory....yep...using bodies to make soap.

Shortly after that the camp was liberated and she made it to Denmark and then a year later was able to make it to New York where see worked in a hotel and married my friends grandfather.

So counting on gold/silver to be your end all savior may not be that good of a plan. Your counting on the greed of who your trying to bribe and their ability to provide what you want. Normally these people would be low on the chain of command. So probably would not have the means to really do anything.

And your relying on a In place government/power that has placed a value on gold/silver.

Most gold/silver stackers are "hood rich". Meaning you might have a few thousands to tens of thousands of dollars worth of gold/silver, but really what is that going to get you?

I have to laugh when I see people say that after SHTF that a gold eagle will buy you a house.
Or a few coins will get you on a plane with the "elite". LOL...yeah....cause your couple dozen oz of gold is going to make the people who set the value of said gold welcome you aboard.

I keep some gold and silver...mostly given to me from my dad...but do not count on it to be worth much in a true SHTF situation. I but more value on my training, and skills to see me through...and a lot of luck. YMMV.
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It makes it bigger and longer.

Last edited by BigBamBoo; 07-15-2015 at 5:54 PM..
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  #2529  
Old 07-15-2015, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not a Cook View Post
The answer to your question is ENTIRELY subjective and will thus vary from person to person. What do you consider "SHTF"? Given the "SHTF" you anticipate, how do you foresee owning silver will help?

There are those here (such as smashycrashy) who think silver will be entirely useless in any SHTF scenario. There are others here who are mindful of past events (e.g. the Nazis coming to power in WWII Europe) wherein owning gold and silver was EXTREMELY important because it allowed some folks to buy their way to freedom (e.g. out of the country). If situations like this fall into your "SHTF", the answer to your question might be based upon how many people you need to get out of the country (or area, or whatever) and how much you silver or gold you think that might require.

So... what do you mean by "SHTF"? How would owning silver help in that situation?
Well Again, Im new to the PM purchasing, but I was thinking, (and its just a guess), that its possible for paper money to become worthless. Say there is a huge natural disaster or an event that causes large spread chaos, obviously at the start water, food, ammo will be the most useful. But If things were to die down, and civilization were trying to pick up the pieces, it may seem that things like PM's might be worthwhile. I'm just talking here, and welcome any and all ideas/opinions.
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  #2530  
Old 07-15-2015, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
The whole "buy your way out of trouble" with gold/silver is waaayyyyy over rated INMHO, based on first hand accounts from my friends Jewish grandmother who was a concentration camp survivor.
She was the sole surviving member of her immediate family of 8 and most of her extended family as well.

They were Hungarians and when the Germans started rounding up Jews, her father tried to buy their way out of the round up by paying some soldiers with gold coins. She said the soldiers agreed and took the gold, only to "arrest" them.

She went on to tell of how all the family members had hid more gold upon themselves in very graphic details. I was 14-15 when she told us these stories and to hear such graphic details from a old lady was very disturbing.

So they were then deported to Poland where they were held for 6 months and then were scheduled to be moved "to more favorable locations". Her dad figured out what was going to happen and once again tried to bribe/buy the family's freedom with gold.
She told how the officer accepted the gold coins and shook her dad's hand....a very rare thing for a German to touch a Jew...and then ordered them arrested and placed on trucks. That was the last she ever saw of her family. And the only way she did not get shipped out with her family was another family had held onto her.

She said she witnessed "hundreds" of people try and bribe guards, officers, etc., only to have their gold, silver, or jewels taken and then turned in.

She was then sent to Stutthof concentration camp where she worked in the soap factory....yep...using bodies to make soap.

Shortly after that the camp was liberated and she made it to Denmark and then a year later was able to make it to New York where see worked in a hotel and married my friends grandfather.

So counting on gold/silver to be your end all savior may not be that good of a plan. Your counting on the greed of who your trying to bribe and their ability to provide what you want. Normally these people would be low on the chain of command. So probably would not have the means to really do anything.

And your relying on a In place government/power that has placed a value on gold/silver.

Most gold/silver stackers are "hood rich". Meaning you might have a few thousands to tens of thousands of dollars worth of gold/silver, but really what is that going to get you?

I have to laugh when I see people say that after SHTF that a gold eagle will buy you a house.
Or a few coins will get you on a plane with the "elite". LOL...yeah....cause your couple dozen oz of gold is going to make the people who set the value of said gold welcome you aboard.

I keep some gold and silver...mostly given to me from my dad...but do not count on it to be worth much in a true SHTF situation. I but more value on my training, and skills to see me through...and a lot of luck. YMMV.


Your example is kina an extreme but maybe. I still don’t think that’s a reason to discount it. Water, food, shelter, protection, etc. Having a couple coins that have represented wealth for hundreds of years just gives you another option. Why not have a few if you can afford it. Just another option in a well rounded plan.
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  #2531  
Old 07-15-2015, 7:16 PM
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Default If for SHTF

If your intent is not investment but for SHTF then is a $1.3 more now worth having a coin people can trust vs a minting co I've never heard of or don't trust? It's not that U.S. Or Canadian Mint coins can't be counterfeited but it's less likely and their weights are available so tampering with the coin is hard.

I do not invest in PMs. I do believe in them as a means of helping in a SHTF and I'm intrigued with the idea of accumulating them to sell during retirement because it would be more like hobby / non taxable / unreported income. Think of it as a regular garage sale. I haven't gone there yet just thinking out loud.

As a SHTF commodity I prefer pre 64 silver US dimes, quarter and dollars. I do like a few Canadian Maple Leafs (silver) with high face dollar value as well. Still don't have much more than I can carry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcalkid View Post
Got a few questions for ya’ll. I went to the local shop today to find out about buying some silver. Looks like $1.70 over spot for rounds and $3 over spot for minted coins (seems about the same as online). They have to order; you buy at today’s price but don’t get it for like a week.

Anyway, I guess I’m wondering if there is any reason to pay more for minted coins vs rounds? More recognizable for trade? I don’t know. What do you guys think. Is it worth an extra 8% for minted coins (totaling like 20% over spot)? I’m not like super prepper or anything but my thought is if the dollar ever takes a **** it would be nice to have some physical PMs around. I am thinking of 1oz silver because they seem like a good trading size (like a pocket full of 20s vs trying to get change for bugger bills)
Thanks

Last edited by Ripon83; 07-15-2015 at 9:51 PM..
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  #2532  
Old 07-15-2015, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoriousRacing View Post
I have no more money to 'invest'. My goal was really SHTF/financial meltdown 'protection' anyway.
Then put it away and forget about it. Don't worry about daily price swings.

Maybe someday you'll go and remember you have it stashed away and it has some real value.
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  #2533  
Old 07-16-2015, 4:16 AM
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Provident is down for maint. again.

Welp, at least JM has prices (for the stuff I am looking at that purchasing) even lower than Provident's, and JM has Sunshine Mint's "security/decoder" cards available.
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  #2534  
Old 07-16-2015, 4:52 AM
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IMHO, when ever there is a panic and everyone sells, they go to cash (many different currencies but mostly dollars). Someday the masses will suddenly realize that the worthless or just declining value assets are being bought by cash created from taking those assets as collateral (quantitative easing ) and creating more cash. They will rush into the next thing, which may be PMs and they will shoot up into a super bubble for a short time.

When is that going to happen and what is the top of that bubble? No one knows.
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  #2535  
Old 07-16-2015, 7:57 AM
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Going to buy a maple leaf to add to my gold collection given that gold is at 1146 as I post this. Best I found out the door including shipping is 1192...anyone have a better price than that (premium below 46 including shipping?)

ETA: I have now found 39 over spot out the door shipped.
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  #2536  
Old 07-16-2015, 8:55 AM
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^^^ Where? How 'bout a link?
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  #2537  
Old 07-16-2015, 9:04 AM
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And my family's story is exactly the opposite of BigBamBoo. Gold and jewels bought us our escape to freedom from communism. It worked. It also sustained us for 10 years until we established ourselves in a free country.
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  #2538  
Old 07-16-2015, 9:17 AM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
And my family's story is exactly the opposite of BigBamBoo. Gold and jewels bought us our escape to freedom from communism. It worked. It also sustained us for 10 years until we established ourselves in a free country.
In this forum I'd ask..... If one needs to escape the USA, what will the rest of the world look like? Where will you run?

I still say metals are looking at a long slow ever more painful slide.
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  #2539  
Old 07-16-2015, 9:36 AM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
And my family's story is exactly the opposite of BigBamBoo. Gold and jewels bought us our escape to freedom from communism. It worked. It also sustained us for 10 years until we established ourselves in a free country.
My question is what did your family do in the commy country to be able to amass so much gold that you were able to live off it for 10 years AFTER buying your way out? And how were you able to hide and transport POUNDS of gold and jewels?

Not being a smart @ss, but am truly curious.


.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It makes it bigger and longer.

Last edited by BigBamBoo; 07-16-2015 at 9:38 AM..
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  #2540  
Old 07-16-2015, 9:45 AM
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Originally Posted by therealnickb View Post
In this forum I'd ask..... If one needs to escape the USA, what will the rest of the world look like? Where will you run?

I still say metals are looking at a long slow ever more painful slide.
There's a whole lotta countries to consider that are relatively becoming more and more free as we eliminate and restrict our freedoms here.
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  #2541  
Old 07-16-2015, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
My question is what did your family do in the commy country to be able to amass so much gold that you were able to live off it for 10 years AFTER buying your way out? And how were you able to hide and transport POUNDS of gold and jewels?

Not being a smart @ss, but am truly curious.


.
They weren't communist when the wealth was accumulated. They rapidly became communist, cumulating in a violent overthrow, thus prompting the escape.

It's very easy to smuggle very expensive jewels in very small places. The truly wealthy don't flee with gold or silver, they flee with jewels.

Our family still had bags with them. The bags had the gold. There was also extra gold scattered on each person in case the bags were stolen or confiscated.
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Last edited by k1dude; 07-16-2015 at 11:09 AM.. Reason: spelling and clarification
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  #2542  
Old 07-16-2015, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
They weren't communist when the wealth was accumulated. They rapidly became communist, cumulating in a violent overthrow, thus prompting the escape.

It's very easy to smuggle very expensive jewels in very small places. The truly wealthy don't flee with gold or silver, they flee with jewels.

Our family still had bags with them. The bags had the gold. There was also extra gold scattered on each person in case the bags were stolen or confiscated.
This is a very interesting post! I would love to hear details about this if you don't mind.


Specifically:
What year(s) did this take place? What gems/coinage where they carrying and what kind of quantities are we talking about? Did any get stolen/confiscated and how? What forms of travel were used? How were the gems/gold used for currency for what items (depending on when this was - how did they go about finding people willing to trade for metals/gems and what influenced their decision of who to talk to)? etc.
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  #2543  
Old 07-16-2015, 12:03 PM
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I can't give you many specifics. Our family is still trying to recover assets in that country. It could jeopardize our efforts because it would be very easy to put 2+2 together. I also come from a famous family there.

Diamonds, sapphires, rubies, and emeralds of top size and quality. Remember, larger stones can be cut into smaller stones. It's important to have some smaller stones too for payoffs. The larger stones are for once your feet have landed on safe ground. It's simply portable off-the-books wealth in a tiny package. It's very easy to transport $1,000,000 of jewels. It's very difficult to transport $1,000,000 in gold. It's nearly impossible to transport $1,000,000 in silver. Do the calculations.

Travel was pretty much cars and boats. Trains and planes came to a screeching halt. Ships have a lot of hiding spots, but are risky. Buses and trucks were a target.

It was all important contacts from before the fall. You had to know who to go to and who to talk to. There were many crooks promising the world, but would simply steal your money. Sometimes word of mouth would work, mostly it wouldn't. Millions upon millions were fleeing. The guards could be bought. But you had to be a good judge of character.

I don't know all the minutia. That generation is now gone. A lot of luck was also involved.
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  #2544  
Old 07-16-2015, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I can't give you many specifics. Our family is still trying to recover assets in that country. It could jeopardize our efforts because it would be very easy to put 2+2 together. I also come from a famous family there.

Diamonds, sapphires, rubies, and emeralds of top size and quality. Remember, larger stones can be cut into smaller stones. It's important to have some smaller stones too for payoffs. The larger stones are for once your feet have landed on safe ground. It's simply portable off-the-books wealth in a tiny package. It's very easy to transport $1,000,000 of jewels. It's very difficult to transport $1,000,000 in gold. It's nearly impossible to transport $1,000,000 in silver. Do the calculations.

Travel was pretty much cars and boats. Trains and planes came to a screeching halt. Ships have a lot of hiding spots, but are risky. Buses and trucks were a target.

It was all important contacts from before the fall. You had to know who to go to and who to talk to. There were many crooks promising the world, but would simply steal your money. Sometimes word of mouth would work, mostly it wouldn't. Millions upon millions were fleeing. The guards could be bought. But you had to be a good judge of character.

I don't know all the minutia. That generation is now gone. A lot of luck was also involved.
Crazy story, thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-16-2015, 2:32 PM
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Default Hmm..

This statement intrigues me. While I do see "freedoms" expanding in Ireland, New Zealand and a few others they will have to expand dramatically or our freedoms be taken dramatically to ever come close to what we have here in the US.

New Zealand would be my favorite, but my wife would prefer Ireland. Either one would be fine so long as I am willing to leave most guns behind, my properties and life as I know it. Getting into New Zealand is nearly impossible but Ireland not so bad - they'd be capable of cutting us off if they wanted too.

PMs' have value in both of those places.


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There's a whole lotta countries to consider that are relatively becoming more and more free as we eliminate and restrict our freedoms here.
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Old 07-16-2015, 2:45 PM
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^^^ Where? How 'bout a link?
http://www.goldmart.com/bullion/gold...new-coins.html plus 8 or 9 bucks shipping. Cheapest premium I have found for a gold maple in the last few days.
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Old 07-16-2015, 6:18 PM
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Thanks!
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Old 07-16-2015, 8:37 PM
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Here're are a few basic questions that I don't believe has been addressed in this thread, and I'd very much appreciate it those of you who are more learned in this area would address them for me.

Some suggest that gold and silver are currently "undervalued" because the unit cost of production for each metal is higher than the current spot price for the respective metal.

1st Questions: What has been the historic relationship between unit cost of production of precious metals and same-period unit spot prices? In other words, when silver's spot price was around $6/oz (which was fairly "steady" until about 2004, right?), what was the cost of silver production per ounce?

Follow-up Questions: IF it is historically-true that cost of production was typically lower than spot price, then it follows that cost of producing an ounce of silver was less than $6 until about 2004, correct? Now I'm reading reports that suggest that the cost of producing an ounce of silver is typically north of $20/oz. Has the cost of production of precious metals really skyrocketed that significantly (from under $6/oz until 2004 to well over $20/oz today) over the last decade? If so, how?
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Old 07-16-2015, 8:45 PM
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And my family's story is exactly the opposite of BigBamBoo. Gold and jewels bought us our escape to freedom from communism. It worked. It also sustained us for 10 years until we established ourselves in a free country.
THIS^^
The gold/stones & silver isn't for the cops or soldiers. They're for the black-market coyote guy to smuggle you out before the SS arrives. If the goons are at your door its too late for gold, Its time for lead.
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Old 07-16-2015, 8:53 PM
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THIS^^
The gold/stones & silver isn't for the cops or soldiers. They're for the black-market coyote guy to smuggle you out before the SS arrives. If the goons are at your door its too late for gold, Its time for lead.
Bingo.
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Old 07-16-2015, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Not a Cook View Post
Here're are a few basic questions that I don't believe has been addressed in this thread, and I'd very much appreciate it those of you who are more learned in this area would address them for me.

Some suggest that gold and silver are currently "undervalued" because the unit cost of production for each metal is higher than the current spot price for the respective metal.

1st Questions: What has been the historic relationship between unit cost of production of precious metals and same-period unit spot prices? In other words, when silver's spot price was around $6/oz (which was fairly "steady" until about 2004, right?), what was the cost of silver production per ounce?

Follow-up Questions: IF it is historically-true that cost of production was typically lower than spot price, then it follows that cost of producing an ounce of silver was less than $6 until about 2004, correct? Now I'm reading reports that suggest that the cost of producing an ounce of silver is typically north of $20/oz. Has the cost of production of precious metals really skyrocketed that significantly (from under $6/oz until 2004 to well over $20/oz today) over the last decade? If so, how?
1) There's a chart floating around regarding avg mining price per ounce vs spot prices I believe it stopped around 2012, CPM group published it. It's not worth my time to dig it up but if you are interested and feel like digging you can find it.

2) What publicly traded miners say the "all-in" costs are are way higher than the average price for mining the ounce across all miners. Most public traded miners are super leveraged and include certain costs that would go to zero in bankruptcy (where many are headed). There are huge miners who basically take a mine and take out everything from it, not just gold and silver. They then assign a cost to the gold/silver relative to everything else.. these miners cost for mining the gold/silver are very low (somewhere in this or another thread I referenced a miner whose avg gold per oz cost was something like $100 and they produced quite a few ounces). Using avg mining costs during times of high spot prices doesn't give a true picture as many miners will use their less productive mines (or more costly procedures) and save their productive mines for when prices drop back down.
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Old 07-16-2015, 8:59 PM
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Gold is at/near it's floor it has bounced off before. But floors have a nasty habit of becoming ceilings if violated with volume. It could be an interesting couple of weeks, while I expect that gold should go higher from here at least temporarily.. it is just noise and the trend is downward.
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Old 07-17-2015, 1:48 AM
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Default Gold is good

Guns, gold, and groceries. That works for me.
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Old 07-17-2015, 5:16 AM
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The critical $1140 level that many gold bugs consider a tipping point was met / smashed.

Time to short the yellow stuff
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Old 07-17-2015, 5:51 AM
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So being new to all of this and very intrigued about the prices doing what they are doing, what do you experienced silver/gold stackers suggest at a time like this

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Old 07-17-2015, 5:54 AM
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The time to buy is now...
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Old 07-17-2015, 6:18 AM
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Sell , prices will continue down
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Old 07-17-2015, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
There's a whole lotta countries to consider that are relatively becoming more and more free as we eliminate and restrict our freedoms here.
Which doesn't answer the question.
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Old 07-17-2015, 6:22 AM
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Dollar is strong since euro, China and Russia currencies suck...don't expect strong PM market any time soon
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Old 07-17-2015, 6:23 AM
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The time to buy is now...
Catch that knife!
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