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  #1  
Old 11-13-2019, 10:55 PM
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Default Shooting prone: using magazine as a monopod on an AR?

I heard sometime ago that if you use a full size magazine as a monopod on an AR, you can induce feeding issues. I did not pay much attention as I was exclusively shooting the AK at the time.

Now a few years later, I find myself shooting the AR more and more.

If I have nothing to rest the rifle on, no bipod, sand bags, backpacks or terrain features, am I better off shooting prone using only my elbows to steady the rifle, or using the magazine as a monopod and with my elbows on the ground?

Are the newer magazines, like Magpul Pmag or Lancer AWM, less apt to have feeding issues when shot as a monopod?


.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:04 PM
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PMAG user, never induced a malfunction shooting off it.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I heard sometime ago that if you use a full size magazine as a monopod on an AR, you can induce feeding issues. I did not pay much attention as I was exclusively shooting the AK at the time.

Now a few years later, I find myself shooting the AR more and more.

If I have nothing to rest the rifle on, no bipod, sand bags, backpacks or terrain features, am I better off shooting prone using only my elbows to steady the rifle, or using the magazine as a monopod and with my elbows on the ground?

Are the newer magazines, like Magpul Pmag or Lancer AWM, less apt to have feeding issues when shot as a monopod?


.
Use a shorter mag so that the mag does not reach the ground when you are holding the rifle like you should be in prone.
That's why most highpower shooters use USGI 20's or something the same length as a 20.
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Old 11-14-2019, 4:08 AM
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You’re supposed to have the sling so tightly wrapped around your arm that the magazine can’t touch the ground. Other people will chime in that it’s fine to rest the weapon on the magazine but where I learned to shoot, (Edson Range) it’s a no-no but I recall more for accuracy issues than potential feed problems.
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Old 11-14-2019, 7:19 AM
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What is taught in some tactical shooting it is better than nothing. A sling is not really used for additional stabilization.
Other schools teach sling use and tension which works better IMHO.
If you need to make a quick long range shot then go to the ground and use the mag. It is better than not. Otherwise if you have the time use the sling. Good to practice both.
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Old 11-14-2019, 8:01 AM
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Sign up for an Appleseed event.
You will be amazed at how stable the use of a sling will make the rifle.
I kidd you not.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2019, 8:56 AM
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Bipods work pretty good. So does a bag or a rock.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Bipods work pretty good. So does a bag or a rock.
From OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
If I have nothing to rest the rifle on, no bipod, sand bags, backpacks or terrain features, ....
OP: Better to not rely on the mag as a rest. Beyond the potential for feeding problems, using the mag creates a pivot/fulcrum at the midpoint of the weapon. Any small deviation at the grip or shoulder will be amplified at the muzzle. Recoil impulse will also transfer at the mag contact, influencing your sightline for follow up shots.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
From OP:

OP: Better to not rely on the mag as a rest. Beyond the potential for feeding problems, using the mag creates a pivot/fulcrum at the midpoint of the weapon. Any small deviation at the grip or shoulder will be amplified at the muzzle. Recoil impulse will also transfer at the mag contact, influencing your sightline for follow up shots.
I believe thatís essentially how it was explained to me, but it was so long ago that I really couldnít recall specifics. I just remember a man in a Smoky Bear cover telling me, ďDonít do this..Ē Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:43 AM
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For a fully floated barrel where the sling is attached to the rail in an AR platform it will greatly enhance the stability of your rifle. If the sling is attached to the front sight assembly which is attached to the barrel, your grouping will deviate quite a bit dependent on how highly your strapped up.
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2019, 9:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Bipods work pretty good. So does a bag or a rock.
I think you meant "Rock or something".
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:47 AM
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Try it and see. AR mags have a bump that's supposed to prevent over-insertion.

A better place to ask would be the Competition forum.

Meanwhile, one man's opinion:

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Old 11-14-2019, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead714 View Post
Youíre supposed to have the sling so tightly wrapped around your arm that the magazine canít touch the ground. Other people will chime in that itís fine to rest the weapon on the magazine but where I learned to shoot, (Edson Range) itís a no-no but I recall more for accuracy issues than potential feed problems.
Wow... they actually EXPLAINED stuff to you? All we got was a list of dos and don'ts and a trip to the sand pits if we dared to ask "why" questions.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:55 AM
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Wow... they actually EXPLAINED stuff to you? All we got was a list of dos and don'ts and a trip to the sand pits if we dared to ask "why" questions.
They explained why, and then explained how we were going to pay if we didnít do it that way. Usually payment was inside the tunnels that run under the berms that divide the ranges. You know the ones.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
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I think you meant "Rock or something".
Rock/I.D. card.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:00 AM
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I always shoot and have been taught to rest my mag on the ground when shooting prone unsupported. I've never had any feeding problems when doing so.
(37/40 or better during every weapons qualification in the last 7 years)
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jarhead714 View Post
They explained why, and then explained how we were going to pay if we didnít do it that way. Usually payment was inside the tunnels that run under the berms that divide the ranges. You know the ones.
Our heavy always threatened us with the "magic boxes"... 2 ammo cans full of BFAs.... "You things wanna dick around out here, you'll get to know my magic boxes. They're "magic" cuz they start off light but get heavier and heavier the longer you have to hold them out to your side at arms length. Just stand the hell by 2081!"
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:12 AM
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If no sling support is used, I’d sit Indian style and shoot before I went prone because it’s better supported. Lots of things to rest the rifle on before I’d resort to the magazine and I believe the memory of what I perceive to be right and wrong would actually prevent me from physically doing it anyway.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:20 AM
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OP, Try it yourself. Donít listen to the institutional inbreeding being promoted here.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:21 AM
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OP, Try it yourself. Donít listen to the institutional inbreeding being promoted here.
I take no offense to the truth. Institutional is fairly what it is.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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What's wrong with inbreeding??
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:57 AM
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Try learning a proper shooting position for prone. There is no need to rest the rifle on the mag. Go prone and support the rifle with your hand under the barrel. Way more stable than supporting the rifle on the mag.
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  #23  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I heard sometime ago that if you use a full size magazine as a monopod on an AR, you can induce feeding issues. I did not pay much attention as I was exclusively shooting the AK at the time.

Now a few years later, I find myself shooting the AR more and more.

If I have nothing to rest the rifle on, no bipod, sand bags, backpacks or terrain features, am I better off shooting prone using only my elbows to steady the rifle, or using the magazine as a monopod and with my elbows on the ground?

Are the newer magazines, like Magpul Pmag or Lancer AWM, less apt to have feeding issues when shot as a monopod?


.
This technique works well with a properly functioning mag/rifle.
I've taught kids to mono-pod the rifle on the mag. They seem to hit what they aim at.
People with short or weak arms or stiff joints/mobility issues shoot prone easier IME.

People get stuck in a place that they were taught and really have a hard time with deprogramming dogmatic habits. Kinda like lining up behind the rifle instead of at an angle when prone.
Just do whatever is comfortable/repeatable that allows you to take the very best shot you can.
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:15 PM
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For a quick, field-expedient prone position the mag support will work. Generally, the magazine will not move upwards causing a jam since you aren't putting a lot of weight on it. But for accurate, repeatable prone shooting, the sling provides the best support.

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Old 11-14-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
From OP:

OP: Better to not rely on the mag as a rest. Beyond the potential for feeding problems, using the mag creates a pivot/fulcrum at the midpoint of the weapon. Any small deviation at the grip or shoulder will be amplified at the muzzle. Recoil impulse will also transfer at the mag contact, influencing your sightline for follow up shots.
This. Get your support as close to the muzzle as you can. I always have my bipod with me. Then my left hand I make into a fist and put it under the stock and once set up properly, I can squeeze/relax my fist to lower and raise my POA.
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Old 11-14-2019, 2:54 PM
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Look at pics
Watch videos
Do what you want.

Article in recoil about this very topic.....
https://www.recoilweb.com/the-rifle-...pod-53211.html



Marine Corp prone



Magazine as monopod



Do some yoga.....

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Old 11-14-2019, 3:12 PM
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Just think what its like when I use my 40 round magpuls...

Actually, I used to argue against using the mag as a monopod, and I still think it could possibly induce a malfunction if something is out of spec. But I've been told that its done all the time and it doesn't seem to be a problem. Apparently, soldiers rest on the mag sometimes.
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Old 11-14-2019, 3:22 PM
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Do some yoga.....

I bet she's popular in off-duty time...
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Old 11-14-2019, 3:52 PM
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A sock filled with sand works wonders
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Old 11-14-2019, 5:51 PM
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I've done it before. It works.
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Old 11-14-2019, 6:22 PM
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If your body can get to a stable prone with a good cheek weld / sight picture, the last class I took said go for it (provides another stable contact point). My lane mate shot a few hundred rounds that way and no issues from his mag resting on the ground. We were working targets at 200 to 400 meters while prone.
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Old 11-14-2019, 6:34 PM
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OP here. Thank you, gentlemen, for all of your input! The Rob Ski video and the Recoilweb article are really helpful. Next week's class will be fast paced and I don't know if there will be time for me to sling up properly as we always start from the standing from different ready positions (Front Sight Practical Rifle.) Yes, I have taken Appleseed and appreciate what a sling can do, I will try to use the hasty sling method, but if I find myself falling behind the buzzer, the magazine monopod will be my main method.

I don't think backpacks or sandbags are allowed and, I think, those with bipods will have to start with them folded and only deploy when the start buzzer sounds.

This is not the Marksmanship or Precision class where there is time to set up.

I appreciate the help, guys!

.
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Old 11-14-2019, 6:56 PM
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Ya if your doing practical rifle you have 5 seconds to go prone and get your shot off. They will teach you depending on the instructor to monopod. It works. If you are using a red dot turn that down as far as you can for better accuracy.
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Old 11-14-2019, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Ya if your doing practical rifle you have 5 seconds to go prone and get your shot off. They will teach you depending on the instructor to monopod. It works. If you are using a red dot turn that down as far as you can for better accuracy.
It has been 5 years since I took Practical Rifle at FS*, LOL. Last time, they still told students to keep AR magazines off the ground but they let us AK guys monopod all we wanted. But I guess that US Army bulletin mentioned in Rob Ski's video did not come out until 2016.


* wife refuses to shoot rifle at FS, so it has been handgun, handgun and more handgun. I only get my rifle jollies at other schools when I go alone.


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Old 11-14-2019, 8:46 PM
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I do it all the time. Iím sure some guns/mags could cause an over insertion issue failure but none iíve ever done it with do. Only way to find out is to try it with your weapon and mags. Monopoding is a great FAST way to add stability to your prone shot. Traditional riflemanship with a proper sling set up either hasty or loop, building your base and finding your natural point of aim etc etc is awesome if you have the time. Moving, hitting the deck to take a precise distance shot then moving again with a tactical two point cross body sling or one point sling, monopod that biotch when you hit the deck to increase stability.


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Old 11-14-2019, 8:50 PM
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Do you have a bipod to take? It doesn't take long to deploy. Take a piece of paracord and tie both legs together. Then you just flip one leg down and the paracord will pull the other leg down.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:11 PM
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Or just practice hitting a 9Ē plate standing at 100 with a sling. Save your back. I had to stop going prone s it screwed me up in that class. 5 seconds to hit the deck, acquire the target, and get your shot off is not much time.
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Old 11-14-2019, 9:16 PM
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Do you have a bipod to take? It doesn't take long to deploy. Take a piece of paracord and tie both legs together. Then you just flip one leg down and the paracord will pull the other leg down.
That's an interesting idea. I have one Atlas, two Magpuls and one cheapo Harris-like copy. Each of the first three needs pressing a button to deploy each leg. The Harris copy might work, but I'm out of time, leaving this weekend.

Besides, I'm trying to keep the front end as light as possible on this pencil barrel upper. Just got rid of the factory muzzle brake/suppressor mount and replaced it with a crown/thread protector.


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Old 11-14-2019, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Or just practice hitting a 9Ē plate standing at 100 with a sling. Save your back. I had to stop going prone s it screwed me up in that class. 5 seconds to hit the deck, acquire the target, and get your shot off is not much time.
I'm out of time to practice much. Only one more range session possible on Sunday for the final zeroing in. Hope this old body can still take it. Been dry firing at home, but dry firing indoors at home is no fun especially with a rifle. Makes the dog go crazy.

Muzzle discipline and a playful neurotic dog don't go together.


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Old 11-15-2019, 7:56 AM
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That's an interesting idea. I have one Atlas, two Magpuls and one cheapo Harris-like copy. Each of the first three needs pressing a button to deploy each leg. The Harris copy might work, but I'm out of time, leaving this weekend.

Besides, I'm trying to keep the front end as light as possible on this pencil barrel upper. Just got rid of the factory muzzle brake/suppressor mount and replaced it with a crown/thread protector.


.
A bipod isn't going to keep the front end light. But if you did want to use it, do what the IPSC guys do - go to the line with the legs extended to where you want, then when the clock starts, it's just a flick of the wrist to pull the legs down.
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