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  #1  
Old 02-18-2019, 7:44 AM
theduracellbigd theduracellbigd is offline
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Default Scope simplicity for hunting and rifleman marksmanship

Had some time this morning enjoying coffee and wanted to share my experience on scope simplicity. I have tried some of the newer tactical styled scopes and simple scopes. I know that every shooting/hunting experience is based upon objective and desired application. Some long range paper punching and or military application might need the use of Big objective, high magnification, tactical turrets and busy reticles, but for hunting mammals bigger than rabbits, a smaller objective, lightweight , lower magnification with simple duplex, or german style post allows the quickest target accusation and subsequent successful shot. If you are not Milatary or LE Sniper ,dedicated paper puncher , or a small varmint hunter, then keep scopes small and spend time shooting field positions using your sling (get off the bench)and use the most simple scope with the best glass you can afford.
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Old 02-18-2019, 9:47 AM
Brush Guard Brush Guard is offline
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Yes, many would agree with you. LPVO with a clean, simple reticle.

Fine crosshair so as not to obscure the target or be distracting.

Agreed, getting off of the bench to shoot in alternative positions is a real eye opener.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:19 PM
riceman riceman is offline
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OP your statement is so true. Took a long range shooting class for fun & experience. Hitting targets out to 800 yards in the prone position was a hoot.
Had one of my rifles customized the same way the rifle I rented was.
Took it to Montana 2 times and never got a deer with it, ended up using hunting partners gun to get my deer. Took it out last year to check sight in and finally realized the scope was to busy, but did not want to admit it, I think. You know, like I will be damned if I am going to admit I messed up going this route. I was going to make it work no matter what. Well @ 100 yds the hash marks made it hard to realy zero in on the red dot of a shoot & see target. So I finally replaced the scope with Leupold Fire dot. The result was 2 deer with 2 shot. One was my first white tail buck @ 280 yards.
So the KISS principle comes into to play here unless you are a long range shooter or sniper.
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Old 02-19-2019, 1:30 PM
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Stick with one setup, shoot often & know your bullet!

My go to is Zeiss 3x9 Conquest yotes out to 700yds.
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Old 02-19-2019, 4:18 PM
Brush Guard Brush Guard is offline
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^^^^^^ That’s impressive shooting. ^^^^^
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Old 02-19-2019, 5:28 PM
splithoof splithoof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theduracellbigd View Post
Had some time this morning enjoying coffee and wanted to share my experience on scope simplicity. I have tried some of the newer tactical styled scopes and simple scopes. I know that every shooting/hunting experience is based upon objective and desired application. Some long range paper punching and or military application might need the use of Big objective, high magnification, tactical turrets and busy reticles, but for hunting mammals bigger than rabbits, a smaller objective, lightweight , lower magnification with simple duplex, or german style post allows the quickest target accusation and subsequent successful shot. If you are not Milatary or LE Sniper ,dedicated paper puncher , or a small varmint hunter, then keep scopes small and spend time shooting field positions using your sling (get off the bench)and use the most simple scope with the best glass you can afford.
Excellent summation of what really works.
Benches are to my mind only tools to be used for initial zero and such. The real shooting (and learning) is all done from field shooting positions where zeros are confirmed, proper gun handling is practiced, and patience is required.
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Old 02-19-2019, 7:57 PM
Brush Guard Brush Guard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
Excellent summation of what really works.
Benches are to my mind only tools to be used for initial zero and such. The real shooting (and learning) is all done from field shooting positions where zeros are confirmed, proper gun handling is practiced, and patience is required.
I like to use the guitar analogy.

Many people learn how to tune the guitar, but never learn how to really play the instrument.

Most shooters will spend time on the bench experimenting with loads, sighting in at 100 yards and some will achieve tiny clover leaf groups. A finely tuned rifle.

But most of those same people never learn how the bullet drops at various distances, how wind effects the projectile, or how to range the target or use the scope for the desired end result.

All key factors in playing the rifle.

Me…? I can tune a guitar pretty well and can also shoot sub MOA groups from the bench.

Yawn.



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Last edited by Brush Guard; 02-19-2019 at 8:46 PM.. Reason: smelling
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Old 02-19-2019, 8:09 PM
splithoof splithoof is offline
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^^^^Some day I'll be at one with my old Stratocaster; for now, I'm concentrating on my old Tele.
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Old 02-19-2019, 8:25 PM
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Yes I tell people all the time that a 3X9X40 or 3.5X10X40 or 2X10X40 one inch tube, Non-AO, DUPLEX reticle mounted low on the rifle doe a good cheek weld is the way to go. I recently got a Leupold 3X9X40 with the Duplex Fire dot reticle and it will be nice is some hunting that I do or plan to do.
I only use Leupold scopes on my hunting rifles and they have not failed me since my 1st one in 1969---which I still have. I do have a couple of 4.5X14X40 on Weatherby 257 and 6.5X300 rifles but after almost loosing an animal in Africa due to it being on 14X I now rarely turn them over 10X.

I have a friend that has to make 16 adjustments befor he can shoot and has 30X plus scopes. When we pronghorn hunt I will wait on him but when he is not ready and the animal is getting ready to run I just jack one into my rifle aim and kill it to fill my tag.

The K.I.S.S. principal works.
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Old 02-20-2019, 8:25 AM
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I tried a turret scope for hunting on my 270 one day. (3) seperate times I found the turret had been spun around (I guess rubbing on my pack or side?) and that had I needed to do a point and shoot I would have not come close to the animal.

The only quibble I have with the above is a fine cross hairs. I guess if your doing the super long range thing then I don't know but I have a 1x4x20 on a 450 bushy with fine crosshairs and it sucks when it's dark or looking into dark brush as I can't see the "X" very well. I would put a heavy X on that gun and prefer a regular X on anything except for a dedicated Varmint gun for those reasons.
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Giving lewdogg21 advice on hunting. That’s like David Hogg giving advice to the NRA.
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Disagree. Been trying to teach lewdogg21 how to hunt. It's like trying to teach Steve Wonder how to see. Not sure we're ever going to get there.
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Old 02-20-2019, 8:35 AM
Brush Guard Brush Guard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdogg21 View Post
I tried a turret scope for hunting on my 270 one day. (3) seperate times I found the turret had been spun around (I guess rubbing on my pack or side?) and that had I needed to do a point and shoot I would have not come close to the animal.

The only quibble I have with the above is a fine cross hairs. I guess if your doing the super long range thing then I don't know but I have a 1x4x20 on a 450 bushy with fine crosshairs and it sucks when it's dark or looking into dark brush as I can't see the "X" very well. I would put a heavy X on that gun and prefer a regular X on anything except for a dedicated Varmint gun for those reasons.
Agreed, it can be hard to see the center of the fine crosshair when it gets dark or the target is obscured by a dark background, in low light.

That’s one of the reasons I went with the Vortex Razor 1x6. It has a tiny red dot in the center of the fine crosshair. I especially like the small red dot on this scope because it is adjustable from daylight bright to a very low setting that is not distracting in low light conditions.

But the red dot might not be so helpful if needing to use holdovers past 300 yards.




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Last edited by Brush Guard; 02-20-2019 at 8:41 AM..
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2019, 9:57 AM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
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I use the Duplex reticle and have for many years except for my squirrel rifles. I now have a Leupold 3X9X40 VXR with the Duplex Firedot reticle. Put it on my 338win mag for my elk hunt this year. I think I like it and plan to get a couple more to replace some old Varri-X II scopes on other rifles.
I use the fine duplex with 1/8 min dot on my squirrel rifles as I tried just fine duplex and did not like that. Many times could not tell where exactly the center was.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:51 PM
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Not sure the post makes sense unless you are arguing that technology and the industry has shifted towards "Christmas Tree" reticles and larger objective lens, which really is because the main tubes are increasing to fit better built turrets and their mechanisms.

The advancement in the optics are way better then the simple Plex reticles etc..

Advance shooters will use holdovers to make more precision shots, not Kentucky windage.

I think your post has sense for my Grandpa but the improvements that have come out are worth using and are more advanced then what you have stated. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... well they are fixing it, the old way is obsolete.

Now you can get scopes with 36mm housings. 34mm is now becoming old technology

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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Old 02-20-2019, 4:27 PM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
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Your entitled to your opinion.
My remarks are mine BUT backed up with many, many years of hunting and shooting. I have seen far too many set-ups that do NOT really work in the real hunting world. Heck I see them at the range all the time were people cannot get a good cheek weld and other troubles. I RSO and also am an instructor at 3 local ranges.
Experience and a lot of hunting(successfully) has shown that my way works at any reasonable shot and situation. It even works better when the shot is not reasonable and the situation is far from ideal. It has noting to do with Grandpa your take on it is that you want something else to do the work for you even if it is not good. You sound like a "everything must be all tactical/electronics and hope someone else has figured out the answer". Grandpa --no(but I am one) but able to think on my own unlike what you describe. I am not sure just how much real hunting you have done but your post suggests very little and at least very little successful hunting in all conditions.

Again that is your opinion and this is my experience/knowledge and opinion
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2019, 7:08 PM
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The old duplex crosshairs are still relevant but no one considers it. The pickets are 3.5moa. 200yd zero is close enough if shooting at 100yds. The 300yd drop from 200yds is (approximately) 3.5 moa.... Hmmmm, seems to quickly cover 100 thru 300yds.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 02-21-2019 at 2:58 PM..
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theduracellbigd View Post
Had some time this morning enjoying coffee and wanted to share my experience on scope simplicity. I have tried some of the newer tactical styled scopes and simple scopes. I know that every shooting/hunting experience is based upon objective and desired application. Some long range paper punching and or military application might need the use of Big objective, high magnification, tactical turrets and busy reticles, but for hunting mammals bigger than rabbits, a smaller objective, lightweight , lower magnification with simple duplex, or german style post allows the quickest target accusation and subsequent successful shot. If you are not Milatary or LE Sniper ,dedicated paper puncher , or a small varmint hunter, then keep scopes small and spend time shooting field positions using your sling (get off the bench)and use the most simple scope with the best glass you can afford.

2-7x33 is one of the best scopes for what you mention.



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Old 02-22-2019, 6:32 AM
Ki6vsm Ki6vsm is offline
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This is why I've been considering buying a Redfield Revolution 2-7x before all the existing ones are sold out. Decent glass for $200 and I do like their Accu-range reticle---having a 4-12x version of this scope already. And it's VERY light.

But I guess there will always be the Leupold version of this scope line.
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Old 02-22-2019, 7:52 AM
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For hunting a simple fixed 4 power or a 2-7 leopold is ideal

Varmints require more magnification

Hunting requires more stalking - clean kill - clean follow up if needed
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Old 02-22-2019, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
This is why I've been considering buying a Redfield Revolution 2-7x before all the existing ones are sold out. Decent glass for $200 and I do like their Accu-range reticle---having a 4-12x version of this scope already. And it's VERY light.

But I guess there will always be the Leupold version of this scope line.
The Accu-range reticle looks nice. I'd get the 3-9. Both 3-9x40 and 2-7x33 seem to be about 175-$177 on Amazon.

You could look at the Leupold VX-1 or VX-Freedom 2-7x33 also... $180-$190 - not sure about reticles, probably duplex.

Last edited by crufflers; 02-22-2019 at 8:26 AM..
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