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  #1  
Old 02-06-2014, 9:56 PM
chbrules chbrules is offline
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Angry Burro Canyon - RO told me I couldn't use my 7.62x39 TulAmmo because it was magnetic

Went to Burro Canyon today to go shooting. It was a nice experience overall, but the RO at the public rifle range told me I couldn't use the 1000rnds of 7.62x39 TulAmmo I bought because the tip was magnetic. I didn't know better, so I just put it away.

Now that I'm looking up info online, and it shows that all these types of AK 7.62x39 ammo's will react to a magnet (even though it's not steel core), I'm pretty pissed. I really wanted to fire off my new AK for the first time, and I ended up having to pay $32 for two 20 rnd brass boxes!

I bought the TulAmmo specifically because it was cheap steel case, no where mentioned steel core, and that Burro Canyon said they don't care about steel case, just steel core.

Am I wrong? Did they just try to rip me off to buy their expensive brass stuff?

Here's the ammo I bought: https://www.ammo2u.com/products/best...j-1000rnd.html


This video shows how all these types are magnetic:


Last edited by chbrules; 02-06-2014 at 10:02 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:03 PM
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Most SoCal ranges won't allow you to shoot anything with a projectile that attracts a magnet, including bimetal jacketed ammo like TulAmmo 7.62x39
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by whatwhy View Post
Most SoCal ranges won't allow you to shoot anything with a projectile that attracts a magnet, including bimetal jacketed ammo like TulAmmo 7.62x39
Is there any cheap steel case stuff that won't? I really would like to fire my AK at their range without paying those ridiculous prices on brass stuff.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:05 PM
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So, you're mad because you brought ammo that is against their rules...

Seriously?

Last edited by SunsetIE; 02-06-2014 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:10 PM
chbrules chbrules is offline
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Originally Posted by SunsetIE View Post
So, you're mad because you brought ammo that is against their rules...

Seriously?
I called them specifically asking what I could and couldn't shoot. They said as long as it wasn't steel core there wouldn't be a problem. So I was fed misinformation. The ammo is not steel core, and I was not allowed to fire it.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chbrules View Post
Is there any cheap steel case stuff that won't? I really would like to fire my AK at their range without paying those ridiculous prices on brass stuff.
http://www.raahauges.com/

Raahauges will let you shoot steel core and bimetal jacket. If you go during the weekdays, it's fairly empty and you can stay as long as no one else is waiting to shoot -- so don't let the 2-hour deal scare you off.

And also, food for thought, a lot of these ranges have to "fight" the forestry service and other governmental bodies over the risk of wildfires. While bimetal jacketed lead core bullets don't contain any steel, it's not really worth the risk for the range to make any differentiation. Put yourself in their shoes, are you going to go around cutting people's bullets open and making sure it's not steel core?

Also if you prefer to shoot on most ranges, brass AK ammo can be had for about $0.50-$0.60/round if you hunt around -- so $32 for 40 rounds ($0.80/round) isn't terrible if you paid for it at a range.

For future reference, when people say "steel core", you can almost always bet that it includes bimetal jackets -- at least here in SoCal.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:23 PM
chbrules chbrules is offline
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Originally Posted by whatwhy View Post
http://www.raahauges.com/

Raahauges will let you shoot steel core and bimetal jacket. If you go during the weekdays, it's fairly empty and you can stay as long as no one else is waiting to shoot -- so don't let the 2-hour deal scare you off.

And also, food for thought, a lot of these ranges have to "fight" the forestry service and other governmental bodies over the risk of wildfires. While bimetal jacketed lead core bullets don't contain any steel, it's not really worth the risk for the range to make any differentiation. Put yourself in their shoes, are you going to go around cutting people's bullets open and making sure it's not steel core?

Also if you prefer to shoot on most ranges, brass AK ammo can be had for about $0.50-$0.60/round if you hunt around -- so $32 for 40 rounds ($0.80/round) isn't terrible if you paid for it at a range.

For future reference, when people say "steel core", you can almost always bet that it includes bimetal jackets -- at least here in SoCal.
Thanks for all the info! You've been very helpful.
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:38 PM
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West End Gun Club and Oaktree also allow it. West End isn't open to the public but a member can bring you on as a guest.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:44 PM
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+1 on rahauges. Easy fix. Go there and you'll have a blast.
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwhy View Post
While bimetal jacketed lead core bullets don't contain any steel
They definitely contain steel - the bimetal term is steel + copper

In fact the jacket is mostly steel with a .008" copperwash. Steel core no.

SGammo has demilled steelcase cartridge with non magnetic bullet from time to time. Good for ranges with steel bullet restrictrions
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
West End Gun Club and Oaktree also allow it. West End isn't open to the public but a member can bring you on as a guest.
I was at Oak Tree last month, and they tested all my ammo with a magnet. Unless you speak of one other than in Newhall.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:59 PM
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SuperSet you sure Oaktree allows it? Last time I went I couldn't shoot any steel core or steel case
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:01 PM
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I was at Oak Tree last month, and they tested all my ammo with a magnet. Unless you speak of one other than in Newhall.
Thank you for the update. I haven't been there since '12 and bi-metal was fine. Maybe it's changed?
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
West End Gun Club and Oaktree also allow it. West End isn't open to the public but a member can bring you on as a guest.


Oaktree gun club will no longer let you shoot any Bi-metal.

Call Burro Canyon and Lytle Creek now that's its Raines, they may allow it.
Burro usually lets people shoot bimetal during or right after rains.


whatwhy's response above explained it all very well.

Here's a link to cheap steel case Russian ammo, that the original bullet was pulled and replaced with standard non magnetic lead FMJ bullets.

These are fine for all SoCal ranges, if they see the steel case and start whining, tell them to check the bullets with a magnet and explain.

Some people and some guns occasionally have small feeding issues cuz the bullet shape is more rounded, but I have never had a issue in my AKs and my friends as well.

Its out of stock, but here was the old link,

http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplu...ed-non-magneti
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:25 PM
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The demilled ammo doesnt have FMJ's. They have plated bullets
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:27 PM
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radioburning radioburning is offline
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If I remember right, Burro had a pretty good fire from sparks caused by bi-metal bullets hitting rocks. I wanna say they were shut down for a couple months, and the fire caused a lot of damage.

Here's some(relatively, for right now) cheaper non-magnetic 7.62x39.
http://lvammo.com/collections/ammuni...e-20-round-box
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:31 PM
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Also, check back with them about shooting after it rains. They used to let bi-metal stuff slide if the chance for fire was low.
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Old 02-07-2014, 1:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radioburning View Post
Also, check back with them about shooting after it rains. They used to let bi-metal stuff slide if the chance for fire was low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUstate View Post
Oaktree gun club will no longer let you shoot any Bi-metal.

Call Burro Canyon and Lytle Creek now that's its Raines, they may allow it.
Burro usually lets people shoot bimetal during or right after rains.
[/url]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
Thank you for the update. I haven't been there since '12 and bi-metal was fine. Maybe it's changed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CudahyGerry View Post
SuperSet you sure Oaktree allows it? Last time I went I couldn't shoot any steel core or steel case
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTP View Post
I was at Oak Tree last month, and they tested all my ammo with a magnet. Unless you speak of one other than in Newhall.
As of just a few weeks ago, I was told that Oak Tree does not allow bimetal or steel core, unless you happen to buy it from them (notably, they sell Federal XM80C, which attracts a magnet and they told me it was fine to shoot there).

Angeles Shooting Range does not allow steel or bimetal, even when it's pouring rain out. I've heard a lot of people say this range and that range allow it when it rains but I've yet to see that actually happen (and sometimes, I'm out there when it's literally pouring down).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad 11 View Post
They definitely contain steel - the bimetal term is steel + copper

In fact the jacket is mostly steel with a .008" copperwash. Steel core no.
Nope, depending on what you're shooting, there is sometimes no steel--I goofed by making that blanket statement (in the sense that I consider bimetal and steel jacketed bullets to be two separate things in my head--only because it's so rare to find steel jacketed ammo that isn't surplus, and if you're buying surplus, you should expect it to be steel jacketed, if not straight up steel core).

Anyway, I stand corrected but I'd like to point out that not all bimetal jackets contain steel.

Some surplus ammo tends to be steel jacketed and copper washed. Modern production ammo often uses iron and copper to create the bimetal jacket. Some others get fancier, for example, the Wolf .223 bimetal projectiles are made of lead, jacketed in Tombac, which is mostly copper with some zinc thrown in.

chbrules: I would recommend against the corrosive ammo in your AK, simply because I think it's a pain in the *** to clean the gas tube and piston and all that in the AK. A lot of people would say that it's not a big deal and only takes a few minutes to clean the AK but if you ask me -- the biggest reason to get an AK is to shoot the crap out of it, never clean it, and occasionally spray some oil or lubricant in its general direction, if you have some free time and nothing better to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad 11 View Post
The demilled ammo doesnt have FMJ's. They have plated bullets
What? Please explain the difference...
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2014, 9:58 AM
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A plated bullet is basically a lead core that is plated with copper in an electrolysis process

FMJ is a complete wrap of a lead core with a sheet of material (usually copper) in a manufacturing process

Berrys has a great explaination - http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q8-c1-W...t_bullets.aspx

From my understanding the 'bimetal' term was something of a marketing term for the Wolf type cartridges.

Ill have to look into the exact compositions more. But it is some type of soft ferrous metal with a very thin copper plating.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad 11 View Post
The demilled ammo doesnt have FMJ's. They have plated bullets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad 11 View Post
A plated bullet is basically a lead core that is plated with copper in an electrolysis process

FMJ is a complete wrap of a lead core with a sheet of material (usually copper) in a manufacturing process

Berrys has a great explaination - http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q8-c1-W...t_bullets.aspx

From my understanding the 'bimetal' term was something of a marketing term for the Wolf type cartridges.

Ill have to look into the exact compositions more. But it is some type of soft ferrous metal with a very thin copper plating.
Gotcha, that makes sense. Although I would think a plated bullet could also be considered a full metal jacket bullet -- not a jacketed bullet, but it is technically enclosed by a harder shell than the lead.

I think "bimetal" simply refers to the fact that there are two metals. The exact composition is not defined by the word itself, sort of like "alloy" doesn't mean anything other than it's a mixture of metals.
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Old 02-08-2014, 8:41 AM
scottriley969 scottriley969 is offline
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Just keep bending over people, it's only going to get worse.
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