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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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Unloaded concealed carry of long guns. legal/illegal?
So i was wondering if i can conceal carry my mossberg 500. Lets say more specificly pistol grip, 7+1, 20 inch barrel on a one point sling,under a trench coat and unloaded. I know sounds a bit weird LOL but its been bugging me that i don't have a solid answer. I saw a thread about this a while back but no one really had an answer. THANKS!!!
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#2
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Really?
You're right... that does sound a bit weird, especially for a first post. If you've been lurking here than you know that people usually introduce themselves before asking about concealing shotguns... good luck friend and I hope you have better intentions than it looks like.
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If you are wondering if you can get a LTC in Riverside County: THE ANSWER IS YES! Join the discussion at:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352777 |
#3
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My understanding from other similar threads is that non handguns are not legally considered concealable so it would not be "concealed" just out of sight. I believe you would be would be restricted only by things like the fed GFSZ. Im sure the open carry movement will take care of that though. I do not believe there is a requirement to have longarms in a locked case like handguns during transport.
Please correct me if im spewing FUD though! Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
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#4
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Honestly do you think this is a good idea?
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_Concealed Quote:
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I may be wrong but it looks no go to me |
#5
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-Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#6
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Now im all confused. I guess I'm lucky live in a county that issues LTCs.
On a different note. This reminds me I need today donate to CGF when I get my taxes back so that everyone can have the ability to defend themselves OUTSIDE their homes if they so choose. |
#7
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I think the simple answer is that you'd best not conceal a Mossberg 500 on your person. If you are discovered you will be arrested and likely spend time in prison/jail.
Reserve concealed carry for a pistol for which you are licensed to carry concealed. |
#8
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If a guy can't get a LTC, he might want to do what he has to do to protect himself. A better question is how do these PC sections play into the same firearm in its case? Or my AR15 in a Dry-Fire Discreet Case? Should I have put that bad boy on my LTC?
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#9
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Interesting question .
If while on duty , I stop someone and find out that they have a pistol gripped shotgun or an SKS under a rain coat , there will be a lot of questions...... |
#10
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I thought long guns were not concealable by statute. Weather they fit under a trenchcoat or not.... Is that not why I can go to the range with my long gun concealed in an unlocked case?
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#11
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Why?
If you need a firearm for SD, LUCC or LTC.
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"We were free until we stopped fighting, now no one has freedom." - Chief Tawonka "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."-Capo |
#13
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Further what is concealed and what is in a case? How do we make that differentiation?
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#14
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While this would be legal. You will still likely get booked into jail. Charges will eventually be dropped, but they took your gun, freedom and possibly your car. I've seen it happen.
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#15
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In this case, the interchange language makes this very interesting.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#17
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In the example you mentioned, the mossberg 500 sith a 16" barrel would need to be an AOW with a tax stamp and it would be classified as an "other firearm capable of being concealed upon a person". So, it would be illegal to carry or even possess unless the proper tax stamp is obtained prior to installing said 16" shotgun barrel.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#18
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Ask all the questions you want... it's legal. Rifles and shotguns in legal configuration cannot be considered "concealed" under the law. If you can get it concealed on your person with a trench-coat, or other similar way, it's fine. While not a good idea, there is nothing illegal about it.
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#20
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Yup, legal. Despite the obvious layman meaning of "capable of being concealed", a non-SBS shotgun cannot be "capable of being concealed" in CA law.
But forget the legality part. Who in their right mind wears trench coats these days? I've never even seen a trench coat in person. If someone asks "is it legal to pour gasoline everywhere in my house?", do you stick to the question at hand? |
#21
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Long guns, over 16 inches, legally cannot be classified as concealed no matter how you carry it... Even if you it's in your vehicle. Any LEO should know that.
If it's unloaded, go for a walk and carry it around... I can think of no better way to get some unwanted attention. I'm sure you will either get some nasty looks or a visit from local law enforcement. Trust me... they LOVE to hear about a guy walking around with a shotgun and a trench coat... those ARs in the trunk need to get tested somehow.
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#22
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Sorry if that question made me look bad or made me seem like i had any bad intentions or didn't introduce myself before asking such an odd question. Well this was my first time posting and had never been in any forum type things before. Joined the the site to get answers and had this question but no real answer. This was purely an educational and curiosity based question and i know even if legal that would be a horrible idea and would make me and all gun owners alike look bad. Sorry for any confusion. Ill try not to let any of my other post look as bad.
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#23
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Not exactly correct. Rifles need to have a barrel 16" or over AND have an OAL length or 26" or more. Shotguns need to have a barrel legth of at least 18" and an OAL of 26" or more. Any LEO or gun nut should know that.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#24
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#25
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I can't believe there is even anyone who doubts this. I always transport my rifles and shotguns concealed, not in a locked case. |
#26
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I can't believe it either. This is 100% legal. Period, end of story.
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#27
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Missed that one, I've been thinking barrels all day. Good thing I'm neither
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#28
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I'm not so sure about your conclusion that a Long Gun, over 16 inches, "legally cannot be classified as concealed no matter how you carry it". If anyone can cite any cases so holding, I'd be very interested in reading them. The way the statutes are worded, it is possible to establish a violation of Penal Code section 24400 (Carrying a concealed weapon) where the weapon is a long rifle or shotgun. There's a big difference between the use of "inclusive" and "exclusive" language. The reason lies in the use of "inclusive" language in section 16530 defining what is a concealed weapon. Here is the exact language of the code: 16530. (a) As used in this part, the terms "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person," "pistol," and "revolver" apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length. (Emphasis added) It's that one little word "include" that causes all the fuss. If section 16530 used the word "is" instead of "includes", then you'd be right on point, but it doesn't say that. Think of it like this: 1) Some cars are sports cars (true statement) 2) Sports cars include Ferraris, Porsches and Lamborghinies (Also a true statement) 3) Therefore a Maserati is not a sports car?????? Last edited by RickD427; 02-05-2012 at 8:59 PM.. |
#29
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-Brandon Quote:
However, people have and probably will yet again be arrested for this sort of thing. It's not a best practice, and you certainly had better be prepared to go for the ride. -Brandon
__________________
Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#30
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The OP himself recognized that it was "a bit weird."
Is it on topic? Hell yes. Because we California gun owners are a community, and we aim to be a responsible one. So while I'm not one to want to prevent the OP from doing something that's perfectly legal, that doesn't mean he should act selfishly by making the news for concealing a shotgun under a trenchcoat.
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WTB: French & Finnish firearms. WTS: raw honey, tumbled .45 ACP brass, stupid cat. |
#31
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#32
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To me the greatest value this anomaly has is to demonstrate to the uninformed how convoluted and tortured the illogic behind our CA gun laws really is.
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#33
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That right there is sig material.....
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#34
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I've done it. Search for "guitar party."
You can legally conceal an unloaded long gun as long as you stay 1000' away from schools. We've had at least one person arrested and charged for it but CGF got the case dismissed since it's not a crime... -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#35
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You will notice it doesn't say "capable of being interchanged". Designing a shotgun to take a barrell less than 16" would be designing an AOW if I am not mistaken, not a shotgun, as a shotgun with a barrell under 18.5" would be a short barrelled shotgun and illegal.
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If you haven't seen it with your own eyes, or heard it with your own ears, don't make it up with your small mind, or spread it with your big mouth. |
#36
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Last edited by ap3572001; 02-06-2012 at 10:50 PM.. |
#37
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Sounds like a very large civil rights lawsuit waiting to happen.
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#39
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We (the gun community) don't want this (concealed carry of long guns) any more than your neighbors (fellow residents of San Francisco) do. Sometimes, in certain areas and scenarios, the law-abiding gun owner's options to self defense are very limited. Now, with no open carry option, the only thing left short of being a victim, is unloaded concealed long gun carry. For me, concealed long gun carry is asinine. I have applied for a CCW and was denied. In my view, I've done my part to comply with the law. If a situation ever arose where I felt my life could be in danger, I would carry my handgun concealed anyway. Concealed unloaded long gun carry is more likely a rifle donation than an option for self-defense. It's better to risk the double-misdemeanor of carrying concealed and loaded than it is to be killed while getting out my locked container.
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