First encounter while carrying with ELK GROVE PD

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

So pretty much if you are a CCW holder and get stopped by EGPD don't be surprised to have the same thing happen to you .

Interesting, because that's exactly what did NOT happen to me. It's impossible to account for all the variables and draw much of a conclusion either way. Different officer, my stop was at about 8:00 in the morning, not at night, I'm much older, etc. Plus, the sample size here is small--not enough interactions to determine what kind of pattern, if any, exists.

[omgwtfbbq]

In terms of what the LEO did, the cursory search, is not illegal. That being said, although no one is going to feel good being patted down, there are ways for LEOs to make it easier on the person being searched (having a good attitude, talking to the subject while your searching etc).

From an officer safety standpoint, I don't necessarily disagree with the officer holding on to the firearm until the encounter is over, but I have no idea why he wanted the OP to put it in your trunk rather than on your person. Seems like a personal bias overflowing into the professional world to me.

The LEO had a bad attitude and now the rest of us get to feel the repercussions.

[Vagabond]

Wouldnt him wanting you to have a loaded gun in your trunk end up being illegal? That isn't CC so it should be unloaded at that point?

[Untamed1972]

Originally Posted by thomashoward

In my class we were instructed, "Its up to you, but I (instructor) recommend against telling unless specifically stated on card or asked as a direct question".
For the very reasons you stated. As soon as they find out, you are treated like a criminal. We are more thoroughly investigated than they are for hiring
I'd have turned the corner and re-holstered

I've seen that statement made a couple of times in this thread.....and it simply isn't true. Compare an LE background check packet to the current CCW app. Not that I'm being Pro-arse-kissy to LE....but it's simply not true.

[Untamed1972]

Originally Posted by omgwtfbbq

In terms of what the LEO did, the cursory search, is not illegal. That being said, although no one is going to feel good being patted down, there are ways for LEOs to make it easier on the person being searched (having a good attitude, talking to the subject while your searching etc).

From an officer safety standpoint, I don't necessarily disagree with the officer holding on to the firearm until the encounter is over, but I have no idea why he wanted the OP to put it in your trunk rather than on your person. Seems like a personal bias overflowing into the professional world to me.

The LEO had a bad attitude and now the rest of us get to feel the repercussions.

Not illegal.....but certainly pointless.

When do we get to start patting LEOs for citizen safety?

[PackingHeatInSDCA]

If I were you, I would immediately file a complaint with their office of professional standards.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by PackingHeatInSDCA

If I were you, I would immediately file a complaint with their office of professional standards.

Based on the conversation with the Sgt doing this would be pointless as I'm sure they would have the same response. Officer safety over civil rights.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

Wouldnt him wanting you to have a loaded gun in your trunk end up being illegal? That isn't CC so it should be unloaded at that point?

They cleared my weapon when they took it off of me and placed it in the trunk unloaded with the magazine laying next to the pistol.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by thomashoward

In my class we were instructed, "Its up to you, but I (instructor) recommend against telling unless specifically stated on card or asked as a direct question".

In my county we have no choice. It's printed on our permit we have to show it anytime in contact with LEO.

[thorium]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

In my county we have no choice. It's printed on our permit we have to show it anytime in contact with LEO.

Sgt did what anybody that knows how LEOs work would do. Officer did too, but went a little overboard with the rant and trunk thing.... So Get out that type writer and write the city attorney (or counsel/firm/whomever represents this municipality), and ask that the PD trains their officers on how to respect 2nd amendment civil rights.

You can also sue in small claims court and ask for $5k for the mental stress of being treated like a criminal and having your 2A rights disparaged. First you'd have to request the damages direct from the PD (in CA when small claiming a government agency you have to go direct to them and get denied first). 99% chance you'll lose of course, but 50% chance that the city attorney now has his nose in the PDs policies/training on dealing with CCW holders too, and they might just get properly amended.

[Sojournertruth]

Originally Posted by thorium

Sgt did what anybody that knows how LEOs work would do. Officer did too, but went a little overboard with the rant and trunk thing.... So Get out that type writer and write the city attorney (or counsel/firm/whomever represents this municipality), and ask that the PD trains their officers on how to respect 2nd amendment civil rights.

You can also sue in small claims court and ask for $5k for the mental stress of being treated like a criminal and having your 2A rights disparaged. First you'd have to request the damages direct from the PD (in CA when small claiming a government agency you have to go direct to them and get denied first). 99% chance you'll lose of course, but 50% chance that the city attorney now has his nose in the PDs policies/training on dealing with CCW holders too, and they might just get properly amended.

idiotic suggestion

watch more Judge Judy

you're not going to get a dime for mental stress all your going to do is obscure the legitimate cause of action.....

and look like a money grubbing fool

[Untamed1972]

Originally Posted by thomashoward

don't know don't care. that's per the the instructor, a career CHP

And I'd still call BS on him.

[thayne]

Originally Posted by thorium View Post
Sgt did what anybody that knows how LEOs work would do. Officer did too, but went a little overboard with the rant and trunk thing.... So Get out that type writer and write the city attorney (or counsel/firm/whomever represents this municipality), and ask that the PD trains their officers on how to respect 2nd amendment civil rights.

You can also sue in small claims court and ask for $5k for the mental stress of being treated like a criminal and having your 2A rights disparaged. First you'd have to request the damages direct from the PD (in CA when small claiming a government agency you have to go direct to them and get denied first). 99% chance you'll lose of course, but 50% chance that the city attorney now has his nose in the PDs policies/training on dealing with CCW holders too, and they might just get properly amended.

You can't sue for mental stress in small claims court. Only for actual damages.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by Sojournertruth

idiotic suggestion

watch more Judge Judy

you're not going to get a dime for mental stress all your going to do is obscure the legitimate cause of action.....

and look like a money grubbing fool

I was thinking he really wasn't serious??

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Originally Posted by Untamed1972

And I'd still call BS on him.

Definitely BS. The instructor was either lying or extremely ignorant of reality.

[Drivedabizness]

The whole officer safety thing is a bunch of sh*t. And we need to push back - hard.

PD's push all sorts of BS in the name of "officer safety". I don't give 2 sh*ts what head up the arse attitude the cops have. Law abiding CCW holders, by definition, do not pose a threat. PO's don't get to have a monopoly on armed defense any more. I don't care whether they like it or not. If they can't get on board, find a new job.

It really is that cut and dried.

Remember who works for and serves whom.

[SkyHawk]

My CCW from Placer looks like it came out of a gumball machine. A 3rd grader could forge it on a 1990's laser printer. It is nothing special - literally just a piece of folded up ragged paper. There are 58 counties in CA, and some city agencies that also issue. Most every one of them have different looking CCWs. How is a CA LEO supposed to know straight away if a CCW is legit? Answer - there is no way, no way to even be reasonably sure unlike looking at a DL.

Until we get a uniform CCW with anti fraud features, I can't say I blame a LEO for wanting to verify the CCW is real. It is probably something they can verify when they run your driver's license, but they need to get your DL from you first. So when you go handing them your DL with (as required by IA) a piece of copy paper in my case, that says you have a CCW whilst telling them you have a gun on you, I can see where they could be cautious. I don't blame them. We need to play ball. This is still an early game in CA and now is not the time to get indignant when a LEO secures our weapon while checking things out.

The real problem with this story are the comments made by the LEO after the fact. It was unprofessional, and I would assume not representative of the standards that Elk Grove City and their Police Department seek to uphold. That is the only issue here, everything else is noise and arguing against officer safety doesn't further any argument regarding the comments that were made.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by Sky.Hawk

Until we get a uniform CCW with anti fraud features, I can't say I blame a LEO for wanting to verify the CCW is real. It is probably something they can verify when they run your driver's license, but they need to get your DL from you first. So when you go handing them your DL with (as required by IA) a piece of copy paper in my case, that says you have a CCW whilst telling them you have a gun on you, I can see where they could be cautious. I don't blame them. We need to play ball. This is still an early game in CA and now is not the time to get indignant when a LEO secures our weapon while checking things

Securing your CCW weapon is one thing. So you think it's ok for them to also pat us down from head to toe as if we are suspected of committing a crime of some sort?

[Teohenwhy]

I honestly would rather have every officer question why I need to carry a gun, blah blah blah, without doing any of the other physical stuff ( removing weapon , pat down, etc ) instead of the other way around.

[5thgen4runner]

I got pulled over last month here in pville i told the cop ibhave my ccw on my rt hip he said cool story bro and continued on like nothing. And he let me go...

[SkyHawk]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

Securing your CCW weapon is one thing. So you think it's ok for them to also pat us down from head to toe as if we are suspected of committing a crime of some sort?

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

So not going to go into specific details but I was questioned about a DUI incident...

Since you've elected not to go into any details that would give us a better picture of the total event, I've can only speculate on why you didn't pass the smell test. The details mean everything. The details may tell us and you why most people aren't hassled by LEO when stopped with CCW and you were, or they may substantiate your inference that you were just a regular joe with no connection in any way shape or form, to any nefarious behavior that was the subject of the investigation, and you just happened to get hassled by a bad LEO. But I'm not going to run a bus over a cop when OP won't post the details. In fact when the first words out of OP mouth are 'So not going to go into specific details' and then he proceeds to get his indignation on about a stop related to a criminal investigation, I'm much more inclined to consider the event and outcome an outlier that won't affect most CCW holders.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by Sky.Hawk

Since you've elected not to go into any details that would give us a better picture of the total event, I've can only speculate on why you didn't pass the smell test. The details mean everything. The details may tell us and you why most people aren't hassled by LEO when stopped with CCW and you were, or they may substantiate your inference that you were just a regular joe with no connection in any way shape or form, to any nefarious behavior that was the subject of the investigation, and you just happened to get hassled by a bad LEO. But I'm not going to run a bus over a cop when OP won't post the details. In fact when the first words out of OP mouth are 'So not going to go into specific details' and then he proceeds to get his indignation on about a stop related to a criminal investigation, I'm much more inclined to consider the event and outcome an outlier that won't affect most CCW holders.

Smell test? You're a joke. If you must know here's what happened. A buddy of mine was doing donuts in his car and the car ended up in a ditch and got stuck. They couldn't push it out of the ditch so they left the car there. I have AAA so I offered to call and have a tow truck driver come pull the car out. When we came back to meet the tow truck driver there were cops at the scene. So based on this account I guess you're right I deserved what occurred. Smh ..

[Teohenwhy]

My first post already stated it was a DUI incident because they ended up arresting the driver of the car for DUI even though the accident happened 4 hours ago and he told them he had been drinking for the past 2 hours which was AFTER the accident.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by Sky.Hawk

Since you've elected not to go into any details that would give us a better picture of the total event, I've can only speculate on why you didn't pass the smell test. The details mean everything. The details may tell us and you why most people aren't hassled by LEO when stopped with CCW and you were, or they may substantiate your inference that you were just a regular joe with no connection in any way shape or form, to any nefarious behavior that was the subject of the investigation, and you just happened to get hassled by a bad LEO. But I'm not going to run a bus over a cop when OP won't post the details. In fact when the first words out of OP mouth are 'So not going to go into specific details' and then he proceeds to get his indignation on about a stop related to a criminal investigation, I'm much more inclined to consider the event and outcome an outlier that won't affect most CCW holders.

You sure you don't work for EGPD? Sounds like you sure have the same attitude as the " officer " I ran into.

[Teohenwhy]

Keep in mind they had already knew who the owner and driver of the car was BEFORE questioning the rest of us ..

[wrs916]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

Smell test? You're a joke. If you must know here's what happened. A buddy of mine was doing donuts in his car and the car ended up in a ditch and got stuck. They couldn't push it out of the ditch so they left the car there. I have AAA so I offered to call and have a tow truck driver come pull the car out. When we came back to meet the tow truck driver there were cops at the scene. So based on this account I guess you're right I deserved what occurred. Smh ..

You lost any amount of sympathy with the "doing donuts" bull****.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by wrs916

You lost any amount of sympathy with the "doing donuts" bull****.

So , I'm accountable for the actions of someone I know ? Even if I wasn't there? So all the people you know have never done anything wrong? This coming from the " moderately racist " guy.

[wrs916]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

So , I'm accountable for the actions of someone I know ? Even if I wasn't there? So all the people you know have never done anything wrong? This coming from the " moderately racist " guy.

Generally, from the idiots I've witnessed doing sideshow bull**** antics like donuts and the like, aren't widely looked upon by law enforcement as people they'd cut any slack for. My advise, find some new friends that don't have their head parked in their ***.

[Teohenwhy]

Originally Posted by wrs916

Generally, from the idiots I've witnessed doing sideshow bull**** antics like donuts and the like, aren't widely looked upon by law enforcement as people they'd cut any slack for. My advise, find some new friends that don't have their head parked in their ***.

The cops did not witness the donuts. There were tire marks on the street but for all they know someone lost control of their car and left the scene. Yea you're right. I need to find some new friends who are perfect angels.

[slaphappy]

I had an encounter with EGPD while carrying. A motorcycle cop pulled over for a cracked windshield. I told him I was armed and he didn't seem to care at all. He didn't ask to see the weapon, where it was or why I needed it. Just wrote me a fix it ticket and sent me on my way.

[wrs916]

Originally Posted by slaphappy

I had an encounter with EGPD while carrying. A motorcycle cop pulled over for a cracked windshield. I told him I was armed and he didn't seem to care at all. He didn't ask to see the weapon, where it was or why I needed it. Just wrote me a fix it ticket and sent me on my way.

Were you doing donuts prior to the traffic stop?

[slaphappy]

Negative.

[jglabe]

I thought cops liked donuts? All of my LEO buddies do anyway!

[NorCalNative]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

So , I'm accountable for the actions of someone I know ? Even if I wasn't there? So all the people you know have never done anything wrong? This coming from the " moderately racist " guy.

You're condoning reckless behavior, most likely on a public street, through your presence. I can see why the officer did what he did. And don't say "the officer didn't see it", he's not dumb and can connect the dots.

Doing doughnuts? Immature punk.

[Hopalong]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

I honestly would rather have every officer question why I need to carry a gun, blah blah blah, without doing any of the other physical stuff ( removing weapon , pat down, etc ) instead of the other way around.

The problem with this, however, is a debate you cannot win.

As you heard from the Sergeant, "officer safety", trumps all, whether it's made up, or seemingly silly.

The comments, however, are "anti-2nd amendment political statements"

As I said, in an earlier post, if you post the question to the sergeant

"Is it your department's policy, for your rank and file officers to "give anti 2nd amendment political lectures to law abiding citizens?"

I don't see how you could get an answer that wasn't satisfactory.

If the sergeant says yes, then he agrees this is an anti- 2nd amendment lecture, given, no less, by rank and file officers

Which would obviously make the department foolish

If he says no, then the officer was wrong.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

The cops did not witness the donuts. There were tire marks on the street but for all they know someone lost control of their car and left the scene. Yea you're right. I need to find some new friends who are perfect angels.

I don't mind sounding like a fossilized old curmudgeon, because I actually am one. There's a level of maturity that ought to be exercised while carrying. Hanging out with sideshow participants and/or spectators doesn't meet that level.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Within the narrow confines of the small sample size herein, there is a pattern emerging in this thread. Act like a 17 year old, get detained and have your gun placed in your trunk by the cops. Behave like a responsible adult, be treated like one.

[NiceGuyInSanJose]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

So , I'm accountable for the actions of someone I know ? Even if I wasn't there? So all the people you know have never done anything wrong? This coming from the " moderately racist " guy.

If you weren't there, and not a passenger in the vehicle, then you were defrauding AAA.

I was mildly on your side until you posted the whole story, but no longer. If you are associated with and helping the acknowledged bad guy in a criminal investigation, you should get treated like a suspect.

[Dee_Dub]

here ya go op

[Gryff]

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy

He told me to turn around and put my hands on my head and proceeded to frisk me and removed my weapon. He then ran my permit and it came back clean but he said for his safety he would hold onto my weapon until we were done. He also asked me " why do you need to carry a gun for " in which I answered " self defense ". He held onto my pistol until they were done questioning everyone and then he said " I am going to let you have your gun back but I'll put in the trunk of your car instead of letting you have it."

Douchebag cop. Why do they keep hiring people who are inherently cowards?