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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles |
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#41
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edit: Heck, here's another image for you Last edited by Merc1138; 06-04-2013 at 12:16 PM.. |
#42
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Well it appears with the post sights, you are doing just as much estimation as with aperture sights. For me anyways, even using the smallest aperture I could buy, the aperture is still significantly bigger than the target at 25 yards or a A23 target at 50 yards.
To put some perspective, this is how my sight picture looks. Even though I see the black circle, it is very difficult to have it perfectly in the center. Even in the photo, if I pulled the trigger with the sight in its location, it'll hit right and low probably around the 7 or 6 ring.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short Last edited by Dattebayo; 06-04-2013 at 12:20 PM.. |
#43
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__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#44
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If that entire target takes up the entire width of your front sight post, it would be pretty easy to center it regarding windage. If you constantly put the front sight post on the bottom of the target, then your elevation will be the same. You're right, consistency is the end game, however you need to understand how to use different sight pictures. If your rifle is accurate, there is absolutely no reason you cannot hit the center of the bullseye every single time with a 6 o'clock hold, if you're keeping that sight picture consistent. Aperture sights work the same way. You need to line up the rear sight, front sight, and target, while trying to consistently keep everything centered. Same thing with a rifle scope!(well, you only have 2 planes to deal with... target and reticle, compared to 3 planes) The short version: You're doing it wrong. |
#45
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This also helps people with vision problems as well as the small aperture helps focus on the target.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#46
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All have been invited to communicate via PM with the match co-ordinator and continuing to complain in this thread is rude and not productive. We do the best we can and are open to suggestions to improve the match for everyone. All complaints in this thread will be ignored by me and hopefully the other co-ordinators. Izzy43 |
#47
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mr Rabbit what do you ghink is elite equiqment? I use a rifle from the 40' many other people use 10/22 others marlins. if the equipment you are using isnt worjing for hou you can always switch to scoped instead of irons about a 30 $ fix. woukd you also like to limit the ammo we can use. you shoukd visit an appleseed project and watch what people can do wifh a cheao 10/22 with bulk ammo. instead of being upset that you are being intentionally forced oht of.a.match focus on your shooting. proper sight alligment and sight picture breath control trigger control. this is a voluntary match out on by volunteers theg are not out to screw someone.over we are all lookibg at the same target at the same distances. im gojng tk.use ny henry h001 with irons this month. stop being negative and enjoy the sport.
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#48
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#49
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Guns are like fishing lures, if you aren't confident with it, your better off with the setup that you are as it'll reap more fish and more bulls. At the end of the day though, even if you were shooting a $3000 Anshultz in these tournaments, if you were a crap shooter, the results will not change.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short Last edited by Dattebayo; 06-04-2013 at 12:44 PM.. |
#50
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Which earlier post? The one where you posted an image of the sight picture you're using so it's easy to point out how you can resolve the problem without spending a time? There's no "strawman" at all, you're using your front sight wrong for shooting small targets. If you think that you can't use a 6 o'clock hold with an AR-7, then it's because you don't understand the sight picture(which I already told you).
edit: This is the sight picture you should try using. Unless your sights lose zero after every shot, your point of impact will remain in the same place, as long as you put the front post in the same place. Last edited by Merc1138; 06-04-2013 at 12:56 PM.. |
#51
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If anything Rabbit, it seems you actually want more classes to shoot. Possibly a post iron class and a aperture iron class? Or stock unmodified rifle class and modified rifle class? As I think it will accomplish what you are looking - which is what it seems is an equal playing ground. To my knowledge, you don't even have to shoot 22LR rounds, as if you wanted, you could use any rimfire, which has better ballistics than the 22lr. Making the target easier won't solve anything but just make this competition like a 3rd grade event where everyone gets 1st place blue ribbons.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#52
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mr rabbit you keep saying the title is an invitation. if this is a party you dont want to attend then dont. if you think this is a.one sided match well good on you. the people putting this match on do it for fun if your not having fun dont play. if yoh can sef up a better match or.wanf to set.up a strict everyone has the same gun match or a post only no aperture sites contact the mods and try to set.it.up. ultimately yohr whinning about.how.everyone has better stuff is falling o deaf ears. if I go buy a hinda im not going to go to a track day and complain aboht the.corvettes are lapping me and say they shoukdnt be able to play. we get what we pay for and you shoukdnt have a hard time getting a vun fhat can compefe here for 150. your posts say youre shooting match ammo if you can afford fhat I dont know why.yoire complaingjn qbout being on a budget. if this match is not a fit for you start a new one.
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#53
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I just gave you a picture of how to use your front sight post to hit the center of the bullseye without obscuring the target. I even used the same smaller bullseye and the sight post from your own image. The only change required is to adjust your elevation.
If an AR-7 doesn't have elevation adjustment for it's sights, then you need to resolve that on your own. It has nothing to do with the thickness of the front sight post, or diameter of the target. Last edited by Merc1138; 06-04-2013 at 1:03 PM.. |
#54
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Yes, I did. For some reason you don't understand how sights work. There is no requirement that your point of impact be dead center in the front sightpost to hit a fly at 200 yards. If your 6 o'clock hold is as consistent as your center of mass hold, your shots will consistently be in the same place, however you'll have the advantage of actually seeing the point of impact in your sight picture instead of covering it up. Last edited by Merc1138; 06-04-2013 at 1:06 PM.. |
#56
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According to #2 here you're using a 6 o'clock hold for 50 yards, great, now work on your consistency. That's a problem with you, not the target, and not the rifle. It's not supposed to be easy. If your hold is so far off at 100 yards, then adjust your elevation to compensate. Again, this is a mechanical adjustment. As I said previously, if your AR-7 has no elevation adjustment, then too bad. If you can adjust for elevation and you're choosing not to, that's entirely your problem. If you can adjust elevation but don't understand how, that's your problem too. Last edited by Merc1138; 06-04-2013 at 1:25 PM.. |
#57
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It may not be the basis of the argument, but the solution you are proposing is just that. A larger, easier to see, target.
There are many rimfire shooters that just have too old eyes for irons. As I said, I have 20-15 vision and still have a tough time making out Olympic standard targets. A lot of people that shoot rimfires use scopes because of that. If you can't see it, you can't hit it. Maybe that is the limitation of your physical ability to shoot. Olympic shooters seem to hit that x mark with great consistency even at 50 yards. Now I am not saying we all need to be Olympic level shooters to compete, but it is nice to try to compete at their level to see how far off you are from the big leagues.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short Last edited by Dattebayo; 06-04-2013 at 1:29 PM.. |
#58
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I wouldn't even say he's proposing anything, more like trolling at this point since he refuses to understand anything about his sight picture, or sight adjustment while proclaiming that factory sights on $400-$500 rifles are "elite", then resorting to his nonsense trying to claim everything is a strawman(and I don't think he even understands what that means), all while crapping up the thread.
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#59
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I dont know what strawman is and I dont care. stop using a sur ival rifle.not itended for match use and bit and moan about mr consistency using his elite rifle. no one hides what they shoot they are often proud of what they have. if YOU are shooting YOUR rifle to.its limits maybe its time for a new.rifle. yoh have to.pay to play. suck it.up and.start shooting.
stop your sniveling and trolling and just enjoy a day of.shooting. use these matches.to.compete against you and track your progress. Last edited by mark; 06-04-2013 at 1:29 PM.. |
#60
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__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#62
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Which is it? Why do you need to have the front sight post sitting on the bullseye? It's not as if the bullseyes are randomly placed in the circular targets. Spend more time learning how to use your sights, and less time complaining about things that aren't really a problem. |
#63
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You clearly detailed that you don't know what a consistent sight picture is, how to use a 6 o'clock hold, and how to adjust your elevation.
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#64
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so when I was in boot camp and shooting at 500 yards I should have asked.my pmi.to make my tagets a different size so.it would line up with my front sight tip? or do what I am supposed to do apply my fundamentals of shooting and make a clean shot.? shooting is not a world that lives in perfection it is a sport of knowledge and proper compensation for the issue at hand. no one honestly cares about you little 200$ ar-7 if you out shoot me great ill go practice some more and out shoot you wifh my 70 year old rifle. stop crying start shooting.
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#65
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The targets are within reason as they look the same at 25 yards as a NRA A23 target would look in irons at 50 yards.
I personally shoot these when I am practicing. They are about the exact same size as this months target, but with the outer rings. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8536/8...f952858b_o.jpg The outer rings mean nothing to me when shooting as I often can't even make them out. All I look for is my black dot.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#66
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Why did this turn in to a debate thread and who gave mrrabbit the wrong definition of 'strawman'?
Seriously, if that's all you're going to say to people at least use it in the right context for crap's sake! Now, knock of the bickering and thread derailing and stay on topic.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member Calguns.net an incorported entity - President. The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President. The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director. DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW! Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA. |
#67
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Izzy43 |
#68
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PM Sent.
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#69
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We are all shooting the same target - I personally thought my score was pretty bad. 204/480 possible points is way below 50%. Now hopefully with some practice I can improve on that. My short term goal is to score 240 plus. This is how I shoot on a normal training day.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short Last edited by Dattebayo; 06-04-2013 at 2:30 PM.. |
#70
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OK !!!! ENOUGH WITH THE BULL*****
I haven't heard this much crap in a long time, like when my kids played 3rd grade soccer ( oh yea everybody got a trophy ) The targets are what they are LIKE IT OR NOT mrrabbitt deal with it, or get off this forum !!!! The match coordinators spend a lot of time and effort to run these matches and I for one appreciate there efforts and I don't care to see one person posting all of this negative crap on my favorite forum |
#71
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Man does my 10/22 like that Wolf MT. Just wish I could find some more. Not sure if I can improve on this one. BTW, I removed the extra 'stuff' on the target to save on printer ink.
100 YRDS Bench Ruger 10/22 Wolf MT BSA scope 24x Score: 100 (104 if we're doing the extra points) Last edited by rwojnilo; 06-04-2013 at 3:31 PM.. |
#72
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__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#73
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#74
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To Mr. Rabbits,
I didn't understand your dilemma until I actually started drawing sight pictures. The way it was explained to me was that I should always make a lollipop with the front sight and the target. Therefore, I have drawn some sight pictures for your consideration. The top row is how you are shooting now, the bottom row is a potential solution for your issue. Regards, Shelton |
#75
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Izzy43: Thanks also. This rifle has always loved the wolf ammo and I would never sell it as it's my first customized 10/22. This baby will be handed down some day. Here's the measurement: |
#76
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Only thing that has been stopping me is that I'd have to take off my aperture sights, and that is not an easy task as I have them on there pretty good. Maybe it is time for me to purchase a .22lr for scoped comps. CZ 452 Trainers are on sale at J&R for $339 atm.
__________________
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 452 Trainer 22LR / CZ 712 - 26'' Barrel 12ga
Česká Zbrojovka CZ 2014 P-07 Black / 75B 9mm SAO / 75B 40SW SAO / P-01 NATO Smith & Wesson M&P 9 / M&P 9Shield / M&P 15T / M&P10 Mossberg MVP 16.25" .308 / Maverick Model 88 Security 8-Shot 12ga / Hunter O/U 12ga Sphinx SDP Black Line 9mm Walther PPK Interarms .380 Beretta 950B Minx .22 Short |
#77
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#78
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Hopefully, someone with way more experience will chime in with a solution. To rwojnilo: Nice shooting!!! |
#79
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If you understood how sights work(and people were trying to help you with this...) you'd realize that you can make your own markings if none exist already. If the sights are not adjustable, then you either continue to make due, or get something more appropriate. |
#80
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Rwojnilo - holy cow! that's amazing!
i noticed an immediate improvement on painting the front sight post on my 10/22 today - yesterday's second target was a 160, today's was a 177. based upon scores on prior month's targets and the relative size of the various scoring rings, i feel relatively confident that i should be able to get close to the 220 range for a score on this sheet - just going to take some practice. good thing it's a 3 month match! lots of time for practice. i'm also happy to announce that i should be able to get in some more range time on the longer range targets, just need to either get another gun to put a scope on, or put a better scope on my son's gun. i was able to come up with a 4th person to allow us to sign up for a corporate membership at the indoor range i frequent now, which saves me enough money to also join the fresno rifle and pistol club range on auberry road, which gives me access to an outdoors range up to 100 yds, plus dingers at 200, 220, and 300 yards. with my membership expiring saturday at the firing line, getting that fourth person to agree to sign up was just in time. |
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