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  #1  
Old 06-08-2017, 2:24 PM
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Default "H.R. 218" Renewal Problems ???

Has anyone encountered any issues renewing what is still being referred to as the "H.R. 218" Certification Card? Specifically, getting renewal cards issued from an Agency other than the one you retired from.

I am retired Federal, received my first card in the Fall of 2015 from the local Sheriff's Department, my renewal card last Fall from the same agency. Just heard from a fellow Fed Retiree (who has received many years of renewal cards from the same agency) that they will be requiring anyone who did not retire from that agency, to obtain and provide an "Authorization" letter from their former agency before they will issue the Certification. They are obviously wanting to distance themselves from the "Mental Health" and other "Active Duty Standards" requirement issues. The agency is reportedly still finalizing these policy changes, so I have not yet contacted them.

Has anyone had to provide one of these "Authorization" letters? What wording was required? Etc.
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Old 06-09-2017, 6:40 PM
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There's a few places that will do HR218 quals for you. Not sure where you're located, but here's one that is free at least for now.
http://selfdefensedynamics.com/qualifyHR218.html
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Old 06-10-2017, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
There's a few places that will do HR218 quals for you. Not sure where you're located, but here's one that is free at least for now.
http://selfdefensedynamics.com/qualifyHR218.html
wazafuzz,

I'm in the central San Joaquin Valley....., so a bit of a drive. However, since he is POST certified and Law Enforcement affiliated, I would have confidence. Thanks.
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Old 06-10-2017, 7:48 PM
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so without an actual LEOSA ID card issued from the agency you retired from, sheriffs are allowed to issue the 5 year cards per Penal Code 25650 which requires the authorization letter you mentioned. The PC section has some verbiage that will help you. What federal dept. did you retire from? I know of a DOD police officer that says his union is fighting to get full LEOSA privileges but I'm sure that will take a couple of years.

Last edited by rjgallardo; 06-10-2017 at 8:06 PM..
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:32 PM
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LEOSA for retired personnel requires annual qualification for nationwide carry. My department issues an ID with ccw endorsement good for 5 years that is only valid in California. For nationwide carry, I need that card, plus the annual LEOSA aka: HR218 card. I get mine thru my department for free.

I don't know what the guys and gals who live out of state do for their annual qualification. We have an annual retiree gathering in Laughlin where the department sends range personnel to do the annual qualification. They process several hundred retirees in two days. They only process LASD retirees there and at our weapons training center in East LA.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rjgallardo View Post
so without an actual LEOSA ID card issued from the agency you retired from, sheriffs are allowed to issue the 5 year cards per Penal Code 25650 which requires the authorization letter you mentioned. The PC section has some verbiage that will help you. What federal dept. did you retire from? I know of a DOD police officer that says his union is fighting to get full LEOSA privileges but I'm sure that will take a couple of years.
This is totally different than carrying under LEOSA. That's just a section enabling the sheriff of a county to issue a ccw.
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Old 06-11-2017, 6:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
I don't know what the guys and gals who live out of state do for their annual qualification. We have an annual retiree gathering in Laughlin where the department sends range personnel to do the annual qualification. They process several hundred retirees in two days. They only process LASD retirees there and at our weapons training center in East LA.
There's a huge batch of retired CA LEOs in the SouthWest Washington area. I know there is at least one law enforcement agency in that area which are issuing qualification cards for LEOSA. I think its Vancouver PD, but I'm not positive.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:39 AM
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Perhaps there was confusion between my buddy and the Sheriff's Department Range Staff regarding the difference between the PC 25650 CCW Permit requirements for Retired Federal LEOs and the "LEOSA/H.R. 218 Certification Card" procedures. However, the Department may apparently be changing the requirements for All retired LEOs who did not retire from their Department. Will just have to wait for their changes.

I should say that currently, I am not aware of any Federal agency that provides LEOSA/H.R. 218 Qualifications and Certification Cards to their Retired personnel.

To rjgallardo:
[I retired from the U.S. Marshals Service. Regarding the DOD, I would say that the issue involves the difference between the jurisdictional status of Military and Federal Civilian LEOs. I also have heard that if a retired Fed I.D. does not specifically state "Was authorized to carry firearms", it can cause problems for H.R. 218 seekers].

Thank you all for your responses.
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Old 06-11-2017, 9:06 PM
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so mentioning a "renewal HR 218 card". If you read HR218 and its amendments, there is no mention of ANY expiration once the LEOSA card is issued. It is possible individual departmenta issuing a LEOSA card may have its own rules on "renewing" the card. If that is happening, then such a department is making up rules not contained in the law. That would be a lawsuit in the making.
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Old 06-11-2017, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjgallardo View Post
so mentioning a "renewal HR 218 card". If you read HR218 and its amendments, there is no mention of ANY expiration once the LEOSA card is issued. It is possible individual departmenta issuing a LEOSA card may have its own rules on "renewing" the card. If that is happening, then such a department is making up rules not contained in the law. That would be a lawsuit in the making.
LE agencies do not issue a LEOSA ID card. What they may issue is a retirement credential that may, or may not, meet the requirements for concealed carry under the LEOSA. There is no requirement in the LEOSA for agencies to issue their retired personnel any form of ID. For that reason, I doubt that a retired officer would have a source of legal standing to bring a lawsuit if they were issued a retirement credential with an expiration date.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjgallardo View Post
so mentioning a "renewal HR 218 card". If you read HR218 and its amendments, there is no mention of ANY expiration once the LEOSA card is issued. It is possible individual departmenta issuing a LEOSA card may have its own rules on "renewing" the card. If that is happening, then such a department is making up rules not contained in the law. That would be a lawsuit in the making.
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
LE agencies do not issue a LEOSA ID card. What they may issue is a retirement credential that may, or may not, meet the requirements for concealed carry under the LEOSA. There is no requirement in the LEOSA for agencies to issue their retired personnel any form of ID. For that reason, I doubt that a retired officer would have a source of legal standing to bring a lawsuit if they were issued a retirement credential with an expiration date.
18 U.S.C. - 926C (The Federal Statute for "LEOSA/H.R. 218" Concealed Carry) requires that a firearms qualification be conducted no less than every 12 months. As a result, the agencies that conduct the qualifications and issue the "H.R. 218 Firearms Qualification Certification" Cards state an Expiration date 12 months from the date of issuance.

My Retirement Credentials Do Not grant Concealed Carry authority and Does Not have an expiration date. I believe that this is the case for all Federal LEO Retirement Credentials.
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  #12  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:38 PM
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If you can find a SWORN qualified range LEO guy that is willing to do the HR218 thing for retirees, that also works. Without naming names or agencies, I just heard of a active LEO range guy with a large department that will qualify retirees anywhere and under a very informal process. I know a few retirees that literally went out to the desert and shot their qual with an active duty weapons training LEO of a police department, whom also did the HR218 paperwork. The way the law is written, the qualification process can literally be out in the desert and shooting paper targets, as long as the range guy deems the qualification shoot appropriate. It's evidentially left wide open to any sworn range guy to determine what's considered a qualified HR218 process.

I just wish more agencies were easy and less stringent with the HR218 stuff. Sadly, some departments don't recogniaze their retirees an HR218 annual qual from another agency. That's such a travesty in my opinion. It's like even after retirement, your azz is still owned by your former employer.
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Last edited by TrailerparkTrash; 06-11-2017 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 06-12-2017, 8:52 PM
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the actual LEOSA ID card has NO expiration. Only the annual qual. does, hence the term "annual." very simple English. Say you are a retired LEO from AZ and move to TX. If you can get the LEOSA ID card from your dept. in AZ then you only have to get annual firearms quals. from TX.

Last edited by rjgallardo; 06-12-2017 at 8:55 PM.. Reason: u
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