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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #81  
Old 11-04-2014, 7:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Packy14 View Post
I get what your saying but he is clearly trolling for this company.... Thus the relevance.
I am im no way trolling for this company I dont work for them I don't even have one of there sights yet..because they keep making them better with more features. And if aimpoint t1 was 200 or even 300 I would definitely consider one on my short list. Hope that clears stuff up in your mind.

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  #82  
Old 11-04-2014, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Packy14 View Post
Lol, what a joke. Your long stellar history on Calguns further cements the value of your "opinion"
Your opinion of your own opinion is of no value... food for thought bro
Best of luck to you

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  #83  
Old 11-04-2014, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by beretta929mm View Post
China-made optics are catching up in quality. That is the trend.
Agreed hopefully they will be just as good soon☺
  #84  
Old 11-04-2014, 8:07 AM
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You say....

"Some one tell me how holosun is not "blowing aimpoint out of the water with features and options"

Then go on to say....

.... "But more features are more features. Dosent mean its better."


Kind of a contradicting statement.

Personally, I view a bunch of features crammed into the small unit as only adding to the opportunity to introduce failure. If you have a battery that last 50,000 hours why need to make an auto on/off. As for the multiple recticles, this seems to be more fluff than anything. I doubt you'll ever see a guy changing recticles during a high stress situation (competitive or defensive). I've had sights with this feature before and found I really only used one. If you train properly, you should only need one. It's also another opportunity to introduce failure or sight movement.

Just my opinion, I'm far from any type of knowledge base for this.


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  #85  
Old 11-04-2014, 8:20 AM
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Originally Posted by KillZone45 View Post
Anyone using quality NV products will not be pairing a Holosun with their expensive NV. Especially someone on this forum as most people here aren't into the higher end optics, I have gleaned this from all the reading on this forum. So most people will not care if their entry level red dot will be NV compatible, only those buying higher end products like Aimpoint wish that their red dots will be compatible.
I sure you dont know this up on your throne in your castle... But if you take your crown off and come down and look around. We are in a fourm discussing a low cost sight, there are low cost NV options big five even sells NV . And most people ..even one's not buying high priced sights would like to have a NV feature for no extra cost.. you could buy this sight and NV for less than a t1 and some people will do that... some might feel that its better to have 3 sights and 3 sets of NV instead of one high end setup...... but I digress

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  #86  
Old 11-04-2014, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry4130 View Post
You say....

"Some one tell me how holosun is not "blowing aimpoint out of the water with features and options"

Then go on to say....

.... "But more features are more features. Dosent mean its better."


Kind of a contradicting statement.

Personally, I view a bunch of features crammed into the small unit as only adding to the opportunity to introduce failure. If you have a battery that last 50,000 hours why need to make an auto on/off. As for the multiple recticles, this seems to be more fluff than anything. I doubt you'll ever see a guy changing recticles during a high stress situation (competitive or defensive). I've had sights with this feature before and found I really only used one. If you train properly, you should only need one. It's also another opportunity to introduce failure or sight movement.

Just my opinion, I'm far from any type of knowledge base for this.


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I appreciate you responding to the question of what features you would like or dont like.

unlike the aimpoint one of the features or options is you can order it with auto on or not ... people have said they want one that stays on 247 so if they listen to comments they will make one like that or add that feature . Also you can buy one that only has a 2moa dot now.. the switching retical is not out yet.

Alot people some how got that just because I said that holosun is blowing aimpoint out of the water with features that I actually said that holosun is"better" than aimpoint..

More features means just that more features... its not contradicting unless you think more features means better wich you clearly dont in this case only wanting one retical and no auto on or off...

I feel that Auto on off would be great for people that dont use there gun every day and want a battery to last 10 or more years .

Last edited by nbk9nbk; 11-04-2014 at 9:22 AM..
  #87  
Old 11-04-2014, 9:27 AM
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Sorry but this whole thread just comes off feeling like an advertisement for some knock-off optic.

I'm pretty darn sure that Aimpoint isn't worried in the least about this chicom optic. I'm sure it will find a customer base since not everyone wants or needs a solid, reliable, proven optic.
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  #88  
Old 11-04-2014, 9:38 AM
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It's an interesting sight, I don't understand the mentality of "it's not an aimpoint or eotech so it sucks." Those sights are awesome, and I am not debating that. But, if it works it works and 99% of people here never have and never will put their optics/firearms through the conditions that eotech and aimpoint are built for. I wouldn't mind dropping $200 on one of these to test it out because I'm just a regular dude and not a high speed operator operating operationally.
The eotech copy reticle seems nice, and auto-on/never off would be ideal for a defensive carbine imo. I'm just going to follow the company and see what happens. I personally am interested.
  #89  
Old 11-04-2014, 9:49 AM
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People will learn that cheap knock off optics are a waste of money. No need to debate that on the forum. They will figure it out when they need to trash the knock off and pony out more cash for something that lasts.
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  #90  
Old 11-04-2014, 10:26 AM
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Sorry guys I was a lil off on price on the production model comes with high mount..but not t1 compatable base. Primary arms has one with side mounted battery tho t1 compatable base closer to 200.

looks like 169.77
At primary arms

Or 171.n change on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KOO...&robot_redir=1


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  #91  
Old 11-04-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
Sorry but this whole thread just comes off feeling like an advertisement for some knock-off optic.

I'm pretty darn sure that Aimpoint isn't worried in the least about this chicom optic. I'm sure it will find a customer base since not everyone wants or needs a solid, reliable, proven optic.

Just saw they have a solar powered one too..

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  #92  
Old 11-04-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
Aimpoint and eotech in one sight ....It's not just a dream anymore. Features n options are always good... no one likes a striped model car so much so its almost imposible to get one.. lol
The MSE and Meprolight red dot is kind of like Aim+EO in the other combo: rectangular window with single dot. I'm partial to rectangular atm since it increases FOV without increasing the overall width and height of your system.

I wonder when a sniper scope in rectangular will come out. The corners won't be as sharp but they still give more info than nothing at all.
  #93  
Old 11-04-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memnon View Post
The MSE and Meprolight red dot is kind of like Aim+EO in the other combo: rectangular window with single dot. I'm partial to rectangular atm since it increases FOV without increasing the overall width and height of your system.

I wonder when a sniper scope in rectangular will come out. The corners won't be as sharp but they still give more info than nothing at all.
You have square/rectangular pupils?

You have to remember that with a magnified optic, the light is being focused at a point behind the ocular lens(where your head needs to go), and that point is only a few millimeters across. Too small and you end up with a tiny image, too big and you're essentially wasting light because the edges aren't entering your eye. If it were desirable to have rectangular lenses for this, you'd be seeing it in binoculars as well(among other things).

When you don't have any magnification for something like a red dot, the point is to keep the frame as thin as possible, or provide a large enough lens that you aren't obstructing the field of view.

Last edited by Merc1138; 11-04-2014 at 1:21 PM..
  #94  
Old 11-04-2014, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
I feel that Auto on off would be great for people that dont use there gun every day and want a battery to last 10 or more years .
Given that the shelf life of a quality 2032 cell is 8-10 years, and they generally sit on the shelf for a year or more, that is quite optimistic.

Generally, a five year battery life is more realistic. If you have any shred of good sense, you'll replace your batteries every January 1st anyway, just like all your other household batteries. That way you never forget to change the battery, and pick up a dead optic.
  #95  
Old 11-04-2014, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Not sure what you mean by a better patent, but patents have never stopped china before.
Holosun would not be able to infringe on Aimpoint's patent and still sell here in the US. But Aimpoint would have to sue Holosun for patent infringement and win.

Just because you have a patent it does not mean your product is free from look alike copies. If the claims in Aimpoint's patent are directed to the low power consumption circuitry, for example, look alike products could still be made and sold if they did not have that patented circuitry.
  #96  
Old 11-04-2014, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
Back in '05, Trijicon threatened to sue NCSTAR for their ACOG replica. AFAIK, it didn't go to trial but it was enough to cause NCSTAR to cease production of that model.
Aimpoint could pursue the same but for whatever reason, they don't. My guess is that their patent isn't written well enough. I am not a patent lawyer.
Or, the patent they (Aimpoint) have is on some portion of the circuitry inside the optic, which Holosun does not infringe. There are many Chicom copies of Aimpoint sights being sold, but they are primarily copies of the external package with entirely different internal guts. You find the same with EoTech clones.

And I am a patent practitioner.
  #97  
Old 11-04-2014, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Press Check View Post
I don't know much about patents either, or how close you can come to a patented design before it borders infringement, but at the end of the day, I would imagine that Aimpoint relies on prospective end-users to know the difference between their product and a sub-par clone. Obviously, those who don't know the difference start ridiculous threads like this.
There is a very specific and legal process to determine patent infringement. It centers around the "claims" (the legal description of the invention) and their relationship to the features in an infringing product.

Just having a patent does not mean you will eliminate copy cats from producing "look alike" products, as long as these products do not infringe the claims of your patent.

I have not seen the Aimpoint patent so I cannot be more specific, but I suspect they patented something specific to the power consumption circuitry and that feature has yet to be copied by look alike manufacturers AFAIK.
  #98  
Old 11-04-2014, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
I sure you dont know this up on your throne in your castle... But if you take your crown off and come down and look around. We are in a fourm discussing a low cost sight, there are low cost NV options big five even sells NV . And most people ..even one's not buying high priced sights would like to have a NV feature for no extra cost.. you could buy this sight and NV for less than a t1 and some people will do that... some might feel that its better to have 3 sights and 3 sets of NV instead of one high end setup...... but I digress

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  #99  
Old 11-04-2014, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
This is not...a is holosun better than aimpoint thread guys. ...
It isn't?

Then why use a title like "T1 Aimpoint looks like a dinosaur compared to the Holosun yata yata"

That is clearly provocative and definitely geared to get the the hair up on the necks of EoTech and Aimpoint fans.
  #100  
Old 11-04-2014, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
I am im no way trolling for this company I dont work for them I don't even have one of there sights yet..because they keep making them better with more features. And if aimpoint t1 was 200 or even 300 I would definitely consider one on my short list. Hope that clears stuff up in your mind.

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Lol, you don't even own one but know for certain that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Interesting. Thanks so much for the info. I'm sure others have found it as helpful as I have.
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  #101  
Old 11-04-2014, 9:19 PM
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"gentlemen" Remember what we say for our fellow Americans who don't like guns? Don't like guns? Don't buy one..But don't hate me because I do...You think that maybe we should use some of that thinking here?????
  #102  
Old 11-04-2014, 11:50 PM
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If somebody wants a cheap micro-sized red dot for a non-serious gun, wouldn't a $70 TRS25 do the trick at a 1/3 the cost of the Holosun?

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Troph.../dp/B00200E0HM

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  #103  
Old 11-05-2014, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
I sure you dont know this up on your throne in your castle... But if you take your crown off and come down and look around. We are in a fourm discussing a low cost sight, there are low cost NV options big five even sells NV . And most people ..even one's not buying high priced sights would like to have a NV feature for no extra cost.. you could buy this sight and NV for less than a t1 and some people will do that... some might feel that its better to have 3 sights and 3 sets of NV instead of one high end setup...... but I digress

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I know this discussion is going off optic... but have you ever tried any of those 1st generation NV products sold at places like Big 5?

Believe me when I say... people who have purchased NV product for use on firearms wont be shopping at Big 5, and would much prefer to have one high quality unit with a 2nd or 3rd gen intensifier vs multiple x 1st gen units.

To be honest, doing NV correctly is such an expensive proposition that the cost of the aimpoint or holosun optics is completely irreverent. A half decent entry level setup pretty much starts at $2000 for a 2nd gen day/night clip-on. Start looking at Gen3 + and easily find yourself in the $4000-6000 price range.

Anyone thinking of making a successful NV setup walking into Big5 is kidding themselves...

Last edited by ExtremeX; 11-05-2014 at 1:19 AM..
  #104  
Old 11-05-2014, 3:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
I know this discussion is going off optic... but have you ever tried any of those 1st generation NV products sold at places like Big 5?

Believe me when I say... people who have purchased NV product for use on firearms wont be shopping at Big 5, and would much prefer to have one high quality unit with a 2nd or 3rd gen intensifier vs multiple x 1st gen units.

To be honest, doing NV correctly is such an expensive proposition that the cost of the aimpoint or holosun optics is completely irreverent. A half decent entry level setup pretty much starts at $2000 for a 2nd gen day/night clip-on. Start looking at Gen3 + and easily find yourself in the $4000-6000 price range.

Anyone thinking of making a successful NV setup walking into Big5 is kidding themselves...
Finally someone speaking with some sanity
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  #105  
Old 11-05-2014, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dhlcycler View Post
It isn't?

Then why use a title like "T1 Aimpoint looks like a dinosaur compared to the Holosun yata yata"

That is clearly provocative and definitely geared to get the the hair up on the necks of EoTech and Aimpoint fans.

Because its true, as I stated it has more features . T1 same old thing

Secondly why complain and not be involved and not say whay in a micro dot

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  #106  
Old 11-05-2014, 7:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Packy14 View Post
Lol, you don't even own one but know for certain that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Interesting. Thanks so much for the info. I'm sure others have found it as helpful as I have.

Have fun making up stuff... good job bro. Clap clap

Also thanks for being involved by saying what you think would make this optic as you said "the best thing since sliced bread.

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  #107  
Old 11-05-2014, 7:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
I know this discussion is going off optic... but have you ever tried any of those 1st generation NV products sold at places like Big 5?

Believe me when I say... people who have purchased NV product for use on firearms wont be shopping at Big 5, and would much prefer to have one high quality unit with a 2nd or 3rd gen intensifier vs multiple x 1st gen units.

To be honest, doing NV correctly is such an expensive proposition that the cost of the aimpoint or holosun optics is completely irreverent. A half decent entry level setup pretty much starts at $2000 for a 2nd gen day/night clip-on. Start looking at Gen3 + and easily find yourself in the $4000-6000 price range.

Anyone thinking of making a successful NV setup walking into Big5 is kidding themselves...


guys only buy aimpoint or eotech and gen3+... that is the only way to meet thr standards for a successful NV setup...


Now we can discuss the topic
Thanks for your opinion on a sight you have never tried... and what you would like to make it what u would buy ..


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Old 11-05-2014, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
That "trap door" battery tray is a concern for me. That, and the glass looks like it has a lot of reflections compared to an Aimpoint. But could just be the video. When I'm looking through a RDS, I don't want to see my face staring back at me. I'm quite ugly. Battery life seems to be the same as Aimpoint T-1 (5 years).

BUT...

The price is appealing. And the variable dot style feature is really cool. But that's the only thing it has over a T-1 as far as I can tell. Is switching from a dot to a ring around a dot going to do anything for my ability to shoot? Maybe it helps with aquiring targets with speed. But then again... I'm not a commando operator warrior kicking down doors in a war zone.
Thank you for making an intelligent comment I did not realize how hard it is for most peole here.

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  #109  
Old 11-05-2014, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dk94044 View Post
Here is a forum statement and details from AR users and Primary Arms CEO

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/64..._Red_Dot_.html
Thanks and good information maybe some will chech out links posted.

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  #110  
Old 11-05-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post

Now we can discuss the topic
Thanks for your opinion on a sight you have never tried... and what you would like to make it what u would buy ..

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Haha…. There was no reason to get snarky with me… I haven’t once pissed on your thread. Nor did I make any comments or give any opinion about the Holoson.

Personally I am a content owner of a couple $80 primary arms micro dots… To be honest, I don’t really care for RDS units that much in general, and that includes Eotech and Aimpoint which I have owned in the past.

My comments about NV was based more on personal experience. Having owned a couple 1st Gen NV products I quickly realize that trying to do NV on the cheap isn’t viable. It’s the reason I asked if you ever used a 1st gen NV unit. 1st Gen units REQUIRE IR illumination or a much greater amount of ambient light to even function well.

There is a reason you don’t see a bunch of people on calguns showing off their budget NV setups. The price for a decent NV setup is generally out of reach for the hobbyists around here.

This comparison for a good quality Gen 1 unit might put things into perspective... Comparing Gen1 with and without IR illumination to a Gen 2 with ambient light only.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...Comparison.jpg

Last edited by ExtremeX; 11-05-2014 at 11:12 AM..
  #111  
Old 11-06-2014, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
Have fun making up stuff... good job bro. Clap clap

Also thanks for being involved by saying what you think would make this optic as you said "the best thing since sliced bread.

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What have I made up? I have no clue what you are even saying.
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  #112  
Old 11-06-2014, 8:39 PM
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What have I made up? I have no clue what you are even saying.

Read your previous post lol


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  #113  
Old 11-07-2014, 5:54 AM
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Lol, you don't even own one but know for certain that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Interesting. Thanks so much for the info. I'm sure others have found it as helpful as I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbk9nbk View Post
Read your previous post lol


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  #114  
Old 11-07-2014, 7:38 AM
MXRider MXRider is offline
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People are still arguing with this guy? lol
  #115  
Old 11-07-2014, 7:48 AM
C.W.M.V. C.W.M.V. is offline
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Originally Posted by MXRider View Post
People are still arguing with thread crapping? lol
Fixed.
  #116  
Old 11-07-2014, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Fixed.
  #117  
Old 11-07-2014, 8:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MXRider View Post
Yes, your post.

Any other clever comments?
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  #118  
Old 11-07-2014, 8:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sunrisefordrene View Post
"gentlemen" Remember what we say for our fellow Americans who don't like guns? Don't like guns? Don't buy one..But don't hate me because I do...You think that maybe we should use some of that thinking here?????
Maybe we should, because this is the third time I've had to post in this thread and the fouth will be a list of people who will not be posting for the next week.
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  #119  
Old 11-07-2014, 8:46 AM
MXRider MXRider is offline
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So calling members out for promoting a product as "better" than a proven and tested product many of us have personal experience with when it obviously isn't is bad?

Have you read the OP's posts in here? He has offered nothing factual in his arguments for this product, and from the sounds of it, he doesn't even own one.
  #120  
Old 11-07-2014, 9:08 AM
C.W.M.V. C.W.M.V. is offline
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Originally Posted by MXRider View Post
So calling members out for promoting a product as "better" than a proven and tested product many of us have personal experience with when it obviously isn't is bad?

Have you read the OP's posts in here? He has offered nothing factual in his arguments for this product, and from the sounds of it, he doesn't even own one.
That doesn't entitle you and yours to come in here and make a scene.
A simple "I disagree, where is your evidence?" would have been plenty.
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