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  #81  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by echopapa View Post
Thanks - yeah, trying to look for stock extensions for my X95, but no luck.
How many inches does it need to add?
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  #82  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:23 AM
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a factory X95 is about 26 3/8", so 4" or just a touch under.

I suspect the ergos would be horrible at that point.
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  #83  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
a factory X95 is about 26 3/8", so 4" or just a touch under.

I suspect the ergos would be horrible at that point.
Probably, but as long as the gun still works then it can be registered. After that, DOJ doesn't care what you do with it as long as you don't make it into an NFA firearm or mess with the magazine release.
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  #84  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:00 PM
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(d) A semiautomatic shotgun with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.

Does this mean my SRM 1216 must be registered even with no evil features. It doesn't mention them like it does in the rifle regs.
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  #85  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by General View Post
(d) A semiautomatic shotgun with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.

Does this mean my SRM 1216 must be registered even with no evil features. It doesn't mention them like it does in the rifle regs.
Quote:
(c) The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm is featureless, except for bullet-button shotguns as described in section 5470(d).
https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...efault)&bhcp=1


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§ 5470. Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Which Weapons Must be Registered.
(a) Except as provided in section 5472, an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined by Penal Code section 30515, must be registered with the Department before July 1, 2018.
(b) A semiautomatic, centerfire or rimfire pistol with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, that has one or more specified features identified in Penal Code section 30515 is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.
(c) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, that has one or more specified features identified in Penal Code section 30515 is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.
(d) A semiautomatic shotgun with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.
https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...a=(sc.Default)
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  #86  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by General View Post
(d) A semiautomatic shotgun with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.

Does this mean my SRM 1216 must be registered even with no evil features. It doesn't mention them like it does in the rifle regs.
Correct. No "featureless" exemption for shotguns, all semiauto shotguns that have a bullet-button (or similar) magazine release have to be registered, according to DOJ. (even though the new law said nothing of the sort)

ETA: Just saw Meno beat me to it - see his post for the relevant citations.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-15-2017 at 12:11 PM..
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  #87  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Probably, but as long as the gun still works then it can be registered. After that, DOJ doesn't care what you do with it as long as you don't make it into an NFA firearm or mess with the magazine release.
Interesting, if it were to be accepted as a registered AW - previously featureless due to the overall length, i would have a "normal" mag release to use and able to bring it back down to 30" overall w/ non-perm muzzle device (or would it be even 26"?)
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  #88  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by echopapa View Post
Interesting, if it were to be accepted as a registered AW - previously featureless due to the overall length, i would have a "normal" mag release to use and able to bring it back down to 30" overall w/ non-perm muzzle device (or would it be even 26"?)
I believe down to 26" would even be ok - there aren't any indications that it isn't, but don't quote me on that.

As for the mag release, I wouldn't make that assumption yet. The regulations say changing it to a regular mag release after registering is a big no-no. But it remains to be seen whether or not that rule is even enforceable. In the meantime I would wait.

But the mag release is the only thing DOJ strictly forbids changing after registering. As long as your firearm doesn't violate other laws (including, but not limited to, making it an NFA Title II weapon), you can theoretically do whatever you want with it.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-15-2017 at 12:33 PM..
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  #89  
Old 08-15-2017, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by echopapa View Post
Thanks - yeah, trying to look for stock extensions for my X95, but no luck.
I'm in the exact same boat. It doesn't look like anyone makes stock extensions for the X95.

I was thinking of making an extended buttpad somehow, but I couldn't even find a replacement buttpad to use as a spare. IWI only sells the thin buttpad, which might be an option as a starting point for making a custom buttpad.

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  #90  
Old 08-15-2017, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jok5tr View Post
I'm in the exact same boat. It doesn't look like anyone makes stock extensions for the X95.

I was thinking of making an extended buttpad somehow, but I couldn't even find a replacement buttpad to use as a spare. IWI only sells the thin buttpad, which might be an option as a starting point for making a custom buttpad.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
If it's a big enough problem for enough people, I'm sure some crafty manufacturer will make something for us.

The regulations don't say that the buttpad has to look good, or feel good, or even be attached that well. For what it's worth.

Some people have jokingly said you could just tape a stick to your buttstock to make the gun longer, register, then take it off. I might try to do something a *little* more functional than that, just so I'm not pushing my luck, but really we don't know yet what the DOJ will accept or not so we're all just guessing right now.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-15-2017 at 1:40 PM..
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  #91  
Old 08-15-2017, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
a factory X95 is about 26 3/8", so 4" or just a touch under.

I suspect the ergos would be horrible at that point.
Do you know if that measurement of a factory X95 is for a bare muzzle or if it included the length of the standard factory muzzle device?

I was thinking of making an extended buttpad that's kind of L-shaped. The idea is for the portion of the buttpad that sits in the shoulder pocket to roughly maintain the same length of pull as the existing buttpad but then have an extended portion that rests on top of the shoulder to provide extra stability and to bear some of the weight. The goal is to meet the 30" OAL, stay close to the existing length of pull, and have an extended portion that actually serves a purpose other than being an eyesore. Any thoughts on whether something like that would be acceptable?

That's just an idea I have, but I'm not sure I actually have the know-how to pull it off. Another idea that I have is to bolt on a piece of wood shaped like a traditional rifle butt and then attach a recoil pad to the end of that. In that case, it will look butt ugly and the ergos will probably suck too.

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  #92  
Old 08-15-2017, 1:59 PM
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I don't know. I'd have to measure.
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  #93  
Old 08-15-2017, 9:07 PM
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This has been incredibly helpful. A huge thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!
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  #94  
Old 08-17-2017, 6:31 PM
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Quick question, does "Acquired From" mean the transferring dealer or the dealer that you actuality paid for the firearm? If "Acquired From" means the transferring dealer, do we just use the FFL'S name if they are not an actual store?
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  #95  
Old 08-17-2017, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kozumasbullitt View Post
Quick question, does "Acquired From" mean the transferring dealer or the dealer that you actuality paid for the firearm? If "Acquired From" means the transferring dealer, do we just use the FFL'S name if they are not an actual store?
That's my understanding, yes.
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  #96  
Old 08-17-2017, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kozumasbullitt View Post
Quick question, does "Acquired From" mean the transferring dealer or the dealer that you actuality paid for the firearm? If "Acquired From" means the transferring dealer, do we just use the FFL'S name if they are not an actual store?
Yep. Whoever the FFL is that ran your background check is always who you acquired it from, for the purposes of this form. Their personal name, if they don't have a company name, will be fine.
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  #97  
Old 08-18-2017, 10:02 PM
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My idea for X95 butpad extension im not sure if even possible. I'm not looking at the rifle now but how about 4 inch longer bolts that can be fastened on both sides by nuts and washers? I'll check tomorrow if this is possible.
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  #98  
Old 08-18-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Echo4kilo View Post
My idea for X95 butpad extension im not sure if even possible. I'm not looking at the rifle now but how about 4 inch longer bolts that can be fastened on both sides by nuts and washers? I'll check tomorrow if this is possible.
In another thread, we've been tossing around some ideas... here are two examples of products that might work (if they existed, which they don't yet)



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  #99  
Old 08-19-2017, 3:29 PM
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So my wife never fired a weapon, never DROS'd a firearm, doesn't have a gun safety certificate, but she can still be a legal owner of my AW if we just pay the extra $15 registration fee?
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  #100  
Old 08-19-2017, 3:32 PM
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So my wife never fired a weapon, never DROS'd a firearm, doesn't have a gun safety certificate, but she can still be a legal owner of my AW if we just pay the extra $15 registration fee?
Yep, assuming she passes the background check they'll do when she submits her application
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  #101  
Old 08-19-2017, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Yep, assuming she passes the background check they'll do when she submits her application
I thought that for joint registration each person needed to have a valid FSC.
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  #102  
Old 08-19-2017, 4:39 PM
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I thought that for joint registration each person needed to have a valid FSC.
Nope. It's maybe not a bad idea for them to get one anyways, but the only requirements DOJ has for joint registrants are:

-The must reside in the same household as the primary registrant
-They must be 18 before 7/1/2018
-They must provide proof of address
-They must pass the background check

The primary applicant doesn't need an FSC, either. There isn't even a place on the AW registration application to enter one.
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  #103  
Old 08-19-2017, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has tried yet, but to my knowledge nobody has had an application approved for anything as of yet - once that starts happening we'll have a better idea of what DOJ will allow and what they won't.

The recommendation for bullpups, right now, is to bring the OAL to 30" by adding a stock extension of some sort. If the gun doesn't measure 30" or longer without the muzzle device, then the muzzle device has to be permanently installed - but that requirement doesn't apply to devices on the other end of the gun. I am not sure what specific products might accomplish that, though.
Awesome work on this thread, cockedandglocked; I wanted to get your feeling (and anyone else) on this bullpup conundrum.

The regs require that "Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an
assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Penal Code section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool (commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon) must register
the firearm before July 1, 2018." So far so good.

Further, in the list as to what types of weapons WON'T be registered, we see that "The Department will not register a firearm that was required to be registered under prior assault weapon registration laws in effect before January 1, 2017. These weapons include, but are not limited to, firearms known as “named assault weapons” and are listed in Penal Code section 30510 and sections 5495 and 5499 of Chapter 40."

Finally, we have the section defining "'Overall length of less than 30 inches' with respect to a centerfire rifle means the rifle has been measured in the shortest possible configuration that the weapon will function/fire and the measurement is less than 30 inches. Folding and telescoping stocks shall be
collapsed prior to measurement. The approved method for measuring the length of the rifle is to measure the firearm from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device, if so equipped, to that part of the stock that is furthest from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device. (Prior to taking a measurement the owner must also
check any muzzle devices for how they are attached to the barrel.)"

So, my read on this is that a Tavor X95 or similar bullpup owned prior to Jan 1, 2017 with a bullet button (not featureless) can in fact be registered WITHOUT needing the muzzle break pinned on. The Tavor was lawfully possessed prior to Jan 1, 2017. The configuration at the time (bullet button, non-permanent muzzle extension to 30") did not require registration under the prior AW regulations.

I think that anyone intending to convert that Tavor to a featureless rifle must ensure that they meet the new requirements for overall length by ensuring the adequate degree of permanence. However, I'm not entirely following why there's this idea that the OAL must be 30" at the time of registration SO LONG AS the OAL had been 30" at the time of lawful possession during the 1/1/01-1/1/17 timeframe. Can you help me understand?
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  #104  
Old 08-19-2017, 10:52 PM
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Thanks for your work on this. My question: I assembled an AR15 this year made from a store bought stripped lower. I know its not "self made", but since it was purchased after 1/2017 how would I go about registering it?
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  #105  
Old 08-19-2017, 11:04 PM
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  #106  
Old 08-19-2017, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewwmann View Post
Thanks for your work on this. My question: I assembled an AR15 this year made from a store bought stripped lower. I know its not "self made", but since it was purchased after 1/2017 how would I go about registering it?
Since it was purchased after 2016, it cannot be registered. DOJ is unfortunately very clear about that, there aren't any loopholes or tricks that will allow you to register anything purchased in 2017.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-19-2017 at 11:42 PM..
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  #107  
Old 08-20-2017, 1:59 AM
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Thanks for the response. That's how I read it also. So what, I put a maglock on it and forget about registration? Or am I going to be a felon now? How is it can I still purchase and assemble a serialized lower?
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  #108  
Old 08-20-2017, 3:33 AM
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Originally Posted by stewwmann View Post
Thanks for the response. That's how I read it also. So what, I put a maglock on it and forget about registration? Or am I going to be a felon now? How is it can I still purchase and assemble a serialized lower?
If you mean one of those "break open the receiver to change mags" deals, then yes that would be one way to avoid registration.

You can still purchase and assemble a serialized lower, as long as it ends up being featureless or have a maglock. Anything else is an AW.
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  #109  
Old 08-20-2017, 9:23 AM
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I keep trying to register and failing. Image upload is down, submitting a request is down.
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  #110  
Old 08-20-2017, 9:28 AM
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There are a few legal options for what to do with your new lowers.

Featureless is one option.
Fixed magazine is another option.
Rimfire is another option.
Non-semiauto is another option.
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  #111  
Old 08-20-2017, 9:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dynastyss View Post
I keep trying to register and failing. Image upload is down, submitting a request is down.
Ya, they've been having a lot of issues ever since registration opened. I wrote this for the AW Regulations thread, but I'll post it again here for everyone's reference:

Lots of people have gotten all the way through - but the website does crash an awful lot. If you think it's bad now, imagine how it's going to be during the final weeks of the registration window! I'm waiting a while before I register anything, so I can watch how the pending lawsuits play out first (and see if any new options or information present themselves between now and then), but because of their horrible website always going down I'm not going to wait any longer than about mid-May to begin the process.

I'm terrified that a bunch of people are going to wait until the last week and crash the whole website, causing everyone who procrastinated to miss the deadline. There is no indication that DOJ would extend the deadline if that happened, and in fact they legally couldn't since the Penal Code says we have to register before 7/1. They'd have to pass new legislation to extend the deadline, which is impossible to do at the last minute. So if you miss the deadline because of website outages, you're probably S.O.L.
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  #112  
Old 08-20-2017, 9:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
There are a few legal options for what to do with your new lowers.

Featureless is one option.
Fixed magazine is another option.
Rimfire is another option.
Non-semiauto is another option.
^ Those all being legal options, are why stripped lowers are still available for purchase at gun stores. (Someone asked earlier how come we can still buy lowers if we aren't allowed to register them as AWs)
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If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

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  #113  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:35 PM
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Cocked brought this up in the discussion thread:

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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
DOJ makes it pretty clear that it would still be a semiautomatic even without the magazine insterted:

5471(HH)(1) A mechanically whole semiautomatic firearm merely lacking ammunition and a proper magazine is a semiautomatic firearm.
That got me thinking about the logic of submitting a photo with a magazine in the first place. My idea is that we should recommend to everyone to NOT include a picture of a mag in the weapon EVER.

Look at it this way, it's a bad idea to give them any more information than we have to. We could for instance submit a legal 10/20 or 10/30 style mag, and then they have some question that delays the application.

We could also see dumb personnel reviewing the applications for more obscure rifles that have unfamiliar mags, and then they have questions that delays the application.

People could also have a 30 rounder or other hicap and then submit with them, and possibly self incriminate if they did not have the mag legally. Another permutation is that you have legal hicap, and we have an injunction now, but during the application review the injunction disappears, and there is some kind of issue that delays the application.

So, DON"T SUBMIT PHOTOS WITH MAGAZINES. A good rule of thumb?
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Old 08-21-2017, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
So, DON"T SUBMIT PHOTOS WITH MAGAZINES. A good rule of thumb?
Agreed, there is absolutely zero reason to include a magazine in your photos - DOJ never asked for it, so why give them more than they asked for. No good can ever come from volunteering more than the bare minimum information to DOJ.

I just added that detail to the main post
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If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-21-2017 at 1:51 PM..
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  #115  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:06 PM
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where did the link to the webinars go?
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dust View Post
where did the link to the webinars go?
I think I didn't have a link in the guide before, thanks for the heads up, just added it.

Here it is: https://cc.readytalk.com/cc/playback...k.do?id=97rowx
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If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

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Old 08-23-2017, 8:17 AM
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Thanks for the invaluable information on this thread but I do have one question though; I had bought an AR from private party back in 2014 and gone through Turners for DROS. My question, do I put Turners as the place I got the AR from or I need to put the individual I bought it from? Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-23-2017, 8:48 AM
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Originally Posted by LoadedM333 View Post
Thanks for the invaluable information on this thread but I do have one question though; I had bought an AR from private party back in 2014 and gone through Turners for DROS. My question, do I put Turners as the place I got the AR from or I need to put the individual I bought it from? Thanks in advance.
Correct, put Turners.

Any time you went through an FFL to buy a gun, put the FFL. There's no reason DOJ needs to know the name of the individual it came from.

Only list an individual's name if it was a face-to-face sale that didn't go through an FFL. If you don't remember their name and address, you just have to take your best guess, because they won't accept "unknown" as an answer.
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If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

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  #119  
Old 08-25-2017, 9:02 PM
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I was also looking in way how to extend the incredible shrinking Tavor to 30"

As others pointed out, there aren't any good options to extend the buttpad yet and to pin /unpin a muzzle device is PITA.

Disclaimers:
Obligatory: I'm not lawyer and this is not legal advice. This is MHO on how I will try to stay compliant with the new DOJ regulations.

Warning, I don't know how much stress and or recoil can the rail or the rail mounting holes on the body of the Tavor take. Using this mod, the firearm remains functional but firing the firearm with this modification might damage the firearm.

Warning, this mod places a rather sharp rail where normally your face and / or neck comes close to / touches the firearm. Firing the firearm with this modification might cause injury or death.



I'm going to extend a Picatinny rail about 4" past the buttpad and mount another buttstock to it.

I found AimSports 12in. X 0.64in. Uncut Rail. I attached it with two 1/2 Inch High 14-slot Flat Top Riser Mounts. One is mounted to the rear of the rail on the Tavor for the 12 Inch rail clearance and the second one clamps them together. I already had a junk buttstock that I cut down to 4". I drilled holes trough the 12inch rail to attach the 4" buttstock with screws.

001.1.JPG

The new buttstock is not fordable, collapsible and is attached with screws like many other buttstocks.

002.1.JPG

Yes, it will look ugly but it will give me time to see if any good product comes along without having to modify my original Tavor parts.


There is also AimSports 12in. X 0.31in. Uncut Rail, it is is too thick to to sit flush with with the Tavor rail without a riser. You could gently clamp it but I do't think it would take much to damage the Tavor rail.


I used 14 slot, about 5" long risers for durability , the use of too short risers, optic mounts ,etc. can cause damage to the parts when lets say storing the gun standing up.




For Tavor X95 IWI sells a thin buttpad that one could extend 5 or so inches to make it compliant but I haven't found any affordable buttpads for Tavor SAR that I could alter.

Both 16.5" barrel Tavors without any muzzle devices are 26 1/8″ long and since both butt pads are made of rubber, down the road with wear and tear I don't think it's hard to lose 1/4 and you have SBR. Therefore I would not mind if someone came up with 1/2-1" thicker buttpad

Last edited by Mortifer; 08-27-2017 at 8:41 PM.. Reason: Added Pictures
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Old 08-25-2017, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortifer View Post
I was also looking in way how to extend the incredible shrinking Tavor to 30"

As others pointed out, there aren't any good options to extend the buttpad yet and to pin /unpin a muzzle device is PITA.

Disclaimers:
Obligatory: I'm not lawyer and this is not legal advice. This is MHO on how I will try to stay compliant with the new DOJ regulations.

Warning, I don't know how much stress and or recoil can the rail or the rail mounting holes on the body of the Tavor take. Using this mod, the firearm remains functional but firing the firearm with this modification might damage the firearm.

Warning, this mod places a rather sharp rail where normally your face and / or neck comes close to / touches the firearm. Firing the firearm with this modification might cause injury or death.



I'm going to extend a Picatinny rail about 4" past the buttpad and mount another buttstock to it.

I found AimSports 12in. X 0.64in. Uncut Rail. I attached it with two 1/2 Inch High 14-slot Flat Top Riser Mounts. One is mounted to the rear of the rail on the Tavor for the 12 Inch rail clearance and the second one clamps them together. I already had a junk buttstock that I cut down to 4". I drilled holes trough the 12inch rail to attach the 4" buttstock with screws.


The new buttstock is not fordable, collapsible and is attached with screws like many other buttstocks.


Yes, it will look ugly but it will give me time to see if any good product comes along without having to modify my original Tavor parts.


There is also AimSports 12in. X 0.31in. Uncut Rail, it is is too thick to to sit flush with with the Tavor rail without a riser. You could gently clamp it but I do't think it would take much to damage the Tavor rail.


I used 14 slot, about 5" long risers for durability , the use of too short risers, optic mounts ,etc. can cause damage to the parts when lets say storing the gun standing up.




For Tavor X95 IWI sells a thin buttpad that one could extend 5 or so inches to make it compliant but I haven't found any affordable buttpads for Tavor SAR that I could alter.

Both 16.5" barrel Tavors without any muzzle devices are 26 1/8″ long and since both butt pads are made of rubber, down the road with wear and tear I don't think it's hard to lose 1/4 and you have SBR. Therefore I would not mind if someone came up with 1/2-1" thicker buttpad
I put up another thread on this bro, I would wait and save your money. All kinds of people think the regs mean we need to modify our rifles to register, and it's a very open question. Interpreting the sentence about permanent muzzle devices might not mean what we seem to think it means. Keep posted for updates on that thread.
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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