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  #1  
Old 03-03-2014, 3:52 PM
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Default 🚩LAW: FAQ - read before posting a new question

Frequently Asked Questions

An FAQ answer thread is always a work in progress ...

Index Post; also use text search

2 - References

3 - Dates and times related to buying guns

4 - Buying/receiving guns when out of state, or from out of state visitors to California
--- (Interstate transfer requires the FFL - no California based 'form' can replace the FFL.)

5 - Magazines: use

6 - Magazines: modification, parts, transfer

7 - Handgun Roster questions

8 - Handgun/Firearms Safety Certificate

9 - California Private Party Transfer (PPT)

10 - Family transfer

11 - Locks when buying guns

12 - Transporting

13 - How to buy a gun

14 - I might have this unregistered 'assault weapon'

15 - Ship or bring a gun to an FFL

16 - Acceptable proof of residency for handgun purchase

17 - 1 handgun in 30 days

18 - Self defense law

19 - Effect of modifying a gun on criminal prosecution/civil suits

20 - storage of a gun in a state where the owner does not reside

21 - straw purchase

==========================

Other CalGuns FAQ posts

License to Carry (LTC) / Carry a Concealed Weapon (CCW) is in our LTC forum
-- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=179

There is an FAQ thread there on the LTC/CCW laws and related questions
-- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=388997
and an FAQ thread on where it is legal to carry
-- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=338205

The FFL forum has an FAQ on How to become an FFL
-- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=384995

The Blade Forum has an FAQ on Knife Laws
-- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=815906

Last edited by Librarian; 09-05-2015 at 8:54 PM..
  #2  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:00 PM
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Default References

California law: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml
Most, but not all, California laws regarding firearms are in the Penal Code

California Code of Regulations: http://ccr.oal.ca.gov/
Most California regulations regarding firearms are in Title 11 Law.

California Jury Instructions: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/cri...yinstructions/

California Attorney General - Forms page: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/forms

California Attorney General - FAQ page: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/faqs

Federal law: US CODE - http://uscode.house.gov/browse/preli...edition=prelim
Most firearms-related US Code is Title 18 Chapter 44

Federal law: ATF Regulations - http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...7/27tab_02.tpl
Most ATF regulations are in Title 27

The Calguns Foundation Wiki - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

Thinking in 'legalese'

A little preparation goes a long way. Laws are generally not written in 'plain english' even though a statute may use english words.

“Guide to Reading, Interpreting and Applying Statutes.”, from the Georgetown law school, should help.

Last edited by Librarian; 03-25-2014 at 11:14 AM..
  #3  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:06 PM
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Default Dates and times related to buying guns

These start the date and time DROS is submitted to DOJ

- the 10-day wait for all firearms

- the 30 day period for '1 handgun in 30 days'

In rare cases a selling/delivering FFL may not be open for business on the day or at the time the wait expires; delivery on the next business day should be expected.

In some cases the CA-DOJ will delay delivery; the selling/delivering FFL is not informed of the reason, and it would be the responsibility of the delayed person to contact DOJ fo further information.

Last edited by Librarian; 03-03-2014 at 5:26 PM..
  #4  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:18 PM
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Default Buying or receiving guns when out of state

If you are an unlicensed person, that is, you have no version of a Federal Firearms License, you may not take possession of a firearm when outside your state of residence - with a few exceptions.
  • You may not BUY a gun or TRADE FOR a gun or receive one as a GIFT.
  • No one may come to California from out of state and SELL or GIVE or TRADE or in any way transfer a gun to you.
Exceptions:
  • You may INHERIT guns and bring them in from out of state - but ONLY if the deceased and the inheritor are related as grandparent/parent/child; other family relationships and no relationship must use a CA FFL for the transfer.
  • You may BUY a gun at an out of state FFL and have it shipped to a CA FFL.
  • A person from out of state may sell you a gun at a CA FFL.
California is a 'special case'. Residents of CA are required by law to use a CA FFL - one explicitly licensed in the state of California - for firearms transfer. Residents of OTHER states may legally buy long guns in any state, through an FFL in that state, either from that dealer or from a resident of any other state.

The state laws beyond California, which might influence this, are out of scope for this forum.


This is Federal law, in effect since 1968. See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate

Federal law does NOT include California's intrafamilial transfer concept; even a gift to a CA resident from a parent or child who lives out of state must go through a CA FFL.

Last edited by Librarian; 03-06-2016 at 10:40 AM..
  #5  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:30 PM
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Default Magazines: use

Legally possessed large-capacity magazines - defined in California law as magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds - may be used in any non 'assault weapon' configuration.

This magazine law principally applies to handguns and non semi-automatic rifles. The age of the magazine and the age or date of manufacture of the gun have no influence on legality.

Another part of Penal Code affects using large-capacity magazines in fixed-magazine semiautomatic centerfire rifles or semiautomatic handguns. A magazine lock (e.g. bullet button) modifies a weapon so it cannot accept a 'detachable magazine' - so equipped, the weapon requires a tool to remove the magazine from the weapon.

'Assault weapon' law says that using a large-capacity magazine in a magazine-lock-equipped semiautomatic centerfire rifle or semiautomatic handgun manufactures an 'assault weapon' by creating a fixed-magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/La...e_restrictions

Magazines - possession

As of September 19, 2015, 3 cities restrict POSSESSION of large-capacity magazines: Sunnyvale, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

Last edited by Librarian; 09-24-2015 at 2:08 PM..
  #6  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:35 PM
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Default Magazines: modification, parts, transfer

Transfer of large-capacity magazines in California is permitted only when the receiver is exempt from the large-capacity magazine law - principally Law Enforcement Officers.

It is no longer legal to disassemble a large-capacity magazine into parts, and transfer the 'kit' of parts.

In short, as of 2014 the law appears to forbid
  • buying parts kits
  • selling or offering to sell parts kits
  • importing parts kits, including moving to California
  • transferring parts kits

It remains legal to modify a large-capacity magazine to 10 rounds or fewer. The requirement is 'permanent' modification, but there is no clear guidance on the minimum acceptable change that becomes 'permanent'.

Last edited by Librarian; 03-05-2014 at 2:45 PM..
  #7  
Old 03-03-2014, 5:01 PM
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Default Handgun Roster Questions

Principal answer:

The handgun Roster (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/) has no effect on
  • ownership
  • possession
  • use
  • private transfer
  • visiting or moving to California
There is no reason it should have an influence on adding a weapon to a License to Carry, but some issuing agencies are reported to have that requirement.

The Roster restricts what licensed FFLS may transfer to non-Roster-exempt customers.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/The_Safe_Handgun_List
and
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Mo..._with_firearms

Last edited by Librarian; 03-05-2014 at 2:48 PM..
  #8  
Old 03-03-2014, 5:08 PM
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Default Handgun/Firearms Safety Certificate

The existing Handgun Safety Certificate (http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo) and the upcoming Firearms Safety Certificate, affect only purchase or transfer of handguns (in 2015, all firearms).

An HSC is not required for
  • ownership
  • possession
  • use
See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Th...ty_Certificate

Last edited by Librarian; 03-05-2014 at 2:47 PM..
  #9  
Old 03-03-2014, 5:19 PM
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Default California Private Party Transfer (PPT)

FAQ:

What is a CA PPT?
The California Private Party Transfer (PPT) is a special, California-only thing.

Some other states permit 'Face to Face (FTF)' transfers, no FFL required.

California requires that private individuals sell to one another using a California-licensed FFL to mediate the sale.

Since that is so, all of the DROS requirements must be met - paperwork, 10-day wait, background check, FSC.
Federal law has no equivalent for a PPT.
Fedlaw requires interstate transfers to use FFLs. Fedlaw does not require a state to require an FFL in a transaction solely among residents of just one state.
PPT transactions are NOT subject to the Roster.
Except in the City of Los Angeles, PPT is NOT subject to 1 handgun in 30 days.
What is the PPT fee?
CA law sets the fee at $10 for the dealer, $25 for DROS and the special funds CA collects.
Who can use the PPT process?
The DROS software will not accept anything but CA ID or Military ID with PCS orders to CA.

This means a resident of another state - without CA ID - cannot bring in a gun for a PPT - this also means that dealers can charge a different fee than just $10, and the the Handgun Roster will apply to the transfer.

This also means that finding a gun at an auction site and having it shipped to a CA FFL would not be a PPT; the private seller would ordinarily not have CA ID
Can a gun be shipped to a different CA FFL in a PPT?
NO - not and remain a PPT; shipping makes the transaction a Dealer Transfer.

By law, PPT requires the seller to leave the gun with a CA FFL, and the buyer to pick up the gun from that same FFL; a gun may not be shipped to an FFL for PPT. Required delivery procedures in the DROS software demand the physical presence of the buyer at the FFL that submitted DROS.

A shipped gun becomes an ordinary 'dealer sale' and again dealers can charge a different fee than just $10, and the the Handgun Roster will apply to the transfer.
See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- https://web.archive.org/web/20151108...e_Party_-_PPTr

Last edited by Librarian; 11-02-2016 at 3:33 PM..
  #10  
Old 03-03-2014, 7:44 PM
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Default Family transfer; 2 CA residents, mail the form. Non-CA, use FFL

California has a feature in Penal Code that allows specified members of the same family, all of whom live in California, to transfer guns without using an FFL.

By law, the transfers covered are among parent, grandparent, child or grandchild, up or down. Brothers to sisters, aunts to nieces, step-parents to step-children (where formal adoption has not happened) are excluded.

In 2014 and following, all of those transfers must be documented by submitting an Operation of Law form.

Because these transfers are exempt from using an FFL, they are not subject to the Roster.

However, interstate transfer does not work on the no-FFL, just file the form model; Federal law requires the FFL, so the DROS process covers the 'inform the state of the transfer' requirement.

Many California FFLs and some folks who answer the phone at CA-DOJ seem to be unaware of Federal law in this area.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...Family_Members

Last edited by Librarian; 03-24-2016 at 3:48 PM..
  #11  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:13 AM
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Default Locks when buying guns

California law requires locks (handguns and long guns) and Federal law requires locks (handguns only).

For both sets of laws, the transferring FFL must be able to show some kind of 'safety device' was with the gun as it left the store OR, for long guns and California law, that the person receiving the gun has an immobile safety device - a safe or approved lockbox, as sworn to by the safe affidavit.

The ATF has not written regulations that allow FFLs to accept anything but gun locks; that means the safe affidavit is no good for transferring handguns.

A very few new firearms come with locks that are NOT California-approved; for those few, the new owner must buy a lock.

BUT, the law does not require the new owner to buy it from the FFL. S/he may buy a CA-approved lock anywhere, and bring both the receipt showing the lock was purchased no more than 30 days before pickup, and the actual lock, to the store when picking up the gun.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...es.2C_and_Laws
  #12  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:30 AM
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Default Transporting

Transporting handguns:
Place the unloaded handgun in a secure completely enclosing case and lock it in.
There is no guidance on what 'secure' means.

Gun locks purchased with the gun or otherwise do not meet the 'completely enclosed locked case' requirement.
The locked case with the unloaded handgun may be transported anyplace within a motor vehicle, and inside an outer case, range bag or backpack.
The law provides that the glove box of a vehicle is not acceptable as a locked container for transport - but does not define 'glove box'.

The law provides that the 'utility compartment' of a vehicle is not acceptable as a locked container for transport - but does not define 'utility compartment'.

There is concern that somehow attaching a separate locked container to one's vehicle makes that container a 'utility compartment'. Nobody knows if that is accurate.
A locked trunk is acceptable as a place to transport an unloaded handgun.
There are concerns expressed about 'pass-through' seats and remote trunk releases. Nobody knows for sure if those may be a problem.
Unloaded locked case is California's general rule for transporting handguns and is also the rule in California's Gun Free School Zone law.
Notes:
A disassembled firearm is still a firearm - if that firearm needs to be in a locked container, disassembling it does not change that requirement.

A 'cable lock' or 'trigger lock' is NOT a legal substitute for a locked container.
Transporting long guns:
California law is silent about IN-Vehicle transport of long guns.
California 'registered assault weapons' follow the same rules as handguns.

Federal law, the Gun Free School Zone, requires long guns to be EITHER in a locked container OR in a locking gun rack.

California law DOES regulate transport of long guns OUT OF a vehicle: in general, in an incorporated area, long guns must be cased. If the case is not designed as a gun case, the case must also be locked.
Transporting ammunition:
Both California and Federal law are silent on the transportation of ammunition.

So long as not transported in the gun to make it loaded, ammunition may be transported at any location in a vehicle, covered or open, locked or unlocked.
See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting

Last edited by Librarian; 05-19-2014 at 10:29 AM..
  #13  
Old 03-16-2014, 4:59 PM
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Default How to buy a gun

The detailed explanation is at the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu..._in_California

This FAQ answer is intended for California residents.

Three pre-conditions:
  1. You must not be a 'prohibited person'; in general that means never convicted of a felony, never convicted of one of the misdemeanors California says are disabling, not currently in jail, on probation or parole, never involuntarily committed for treatment for a mental condition.
    If your situation is more complicated than that, or you are unsure, you should consult a lawyer who can work with your particular facts.
  2. You must be at least 18 years old to buy a long gun, 21 years old to buy a handgun or any gun not a long gun (e.g. a lower for an AR-type rifle). This is both Federal and California law.
  3. You must be a resident of California and have acceptable documentation to prove it. (FOR FEDERAL LAW, your CA Driver License or CA ID card are acceptable.)
There are no person-to-person sales in California for unlicensed persons; all sales must go through a California-licensed FFL.

Simplest case - buy a long gun: a buyer will
  • go to a gun store.
  • Beginning Jan 2015, must have and show a Firearms Safety Certificate (FSC)
  • look at long guns and decide to buy one that comes with an acceptable lock.
  • fill out the Federal 4473 and the California Dealer's Record Of Sale (DROS)
  • show your Driver License.
  • pay for the gun: this will include the cost of the gun, the DROS and other California required fees, totaling $25, and any other fees the dealer charges separately.
  • wait 10 days from the time of the DROS.
  • return to the gun store
  • pick up the gun.
More complicated - buy a handgun: The buyer acts as buying a long gun, but in addition
  • must have and show a Handgun Safety Certificate
  • For California, provide an additional document beyond a Driver License or CA ID, to establish residency in California. Penal Code says
    Satisfactory documentation shall include
    - a utility bill from within the last three months,
    - a residential lease,
    - a property deed, or
    - military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment
    within this state, or
    - other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of
    Justice.
  • IF one buys the handgun directly from a dealer, one must wait 30 full days before filing DROS on another purchase of a handgun directly from a dealer.
    IF one buys from another California resident, using an FFL to mediate the deal because CA requires you both to do that (a PPT), then the 30-day limit does not apply. (UNLESS you use an FFL inside the City of Los Angeles, which has its own 1-handgun-in-30-days law. Yes, that's legal.)
    Waiting periods between purchases apply ONLY to handguns.
For various reasons, some people have living conditions where no utilities or other evidence of residence is in their names. A frequently recommended solution is an explicit separate lease agreement.

A Private Party Transfer (PPT) is a special California use of a California-licensed FFL to allow to people with California ID to sell to each other.

Last edited by Librarian; 01-15-2015 at 8:10 PM..
  #14  
Old 03-20-2014, 3:58 PM
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Default I might have this unregistered 'assault weapon'

DO NOT POST THAT ON CALGUNS.


The penalty for having an unregistered 'assault weapon' is up to eight years in prison.

Determination of the accuracy of your concern or suspicion is best done with your own lawyer.

See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Po...ult_weapons%22

Inheritance of a registered 'assault weapon' is an issue not necessarily associated with a crime, but the beneficiary probably will not be able to keep the gun(s).

Last edited by Librarian; 03-20-2014 at 4:03 PM..
  #15  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:02 PM
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Default Ship or bring a gun to an FFL

Neither Federal nor California law require that a gun be shipped to a CA FFL by another FFL.

Legally, an out of state seller may privately ship to the CA FFL, or may personally bring the gun to the CA FFL for transfer.

But, some FFLs have their own business practice to accept shipped guns only from other FFLs. They are allowed to do that, just as they are allowed to run their business to suit themselves in other ways.

Call ahead to the CA FFL you plan to use, and get their policy.
  #16  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:32 PM
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Default Acceptable proof of residency for handgun purchase

Proof of residency applies ONLY to handgun purchases: PC 26845
Quote:
26845.

(a) No handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that the person is a California resident.

(b) Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice.

(c) The firearms dealer shall retain a photocopy of the documentation as proof of compliance with this requirement.
CA DOJ says

What documentation is acceptable proof of residency for handgun purchasers?

Utility bill from within the past three months that bears on its face the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

“Utility bill" means a statement of charges for providing service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired Internet, telephone connection or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection) or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.

Residential lease that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

"Residential lease" means either of the following:
A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time; or
A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.

Property deed that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

"Property deed" means either or the following:
A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust; or
A valid Certificate of Title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.

Current, government-issued license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License, California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

Examples of acceptable proof of residency:
Current DMV registrations.
Electricity, gas, cable bill with purchaser's name on it from within the last 3 months.
Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.

Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:
Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
Cellular phone bill.

Last edited by Librarian; 04-03-2014 at 10:51 PM..
  #17  
Old 07-08-2014, 1:57 PM
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Default

17 - 1 handgun in 30 days

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...dgun_per_month

Here is the Penal Code:
Quote:
27535. (a) No person shall make an application to purchase more
than one handgun within any 30-day period.
'Application to purchase' means 'submit DROS'.

'30 days' is from the moment the DROS is submitted, and is enforced, to the minute, by the dealer's DOJ-supplied software.

It applies only to handguns.

It applies to individuals.

It does NOT apply to Private Party Transactions (PPT).
It DOES apply to PPT transactions that happen at an FFL inside the Los Angeles City limits; where the buyer or seller may live in CA does not matter.
It does NOT apply to within-CA intrafamilial transfers (those do not use an FFL).

It DOES apply to interstate intrafamilial transactions, because those DO require an FFL.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 02-07-2016 at 10:10 PM..
  #18  
Old 08-15-2014, 9:47 AM
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Default

A thread with solid information on California's law of self defense: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=970506
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


  #19  
Old 12-20-2014, 2:04 PM
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Default Effect of gun modification on criminal prosecution/civil suit

We can't find any cases.

That does not mean such cases do not exist, nor that such a case cannot be filed in the future.

But, absent a modification that is illegal (e.g. conversion to full auto without a license/tax stamp) or demonstrably unsafe (made up example: firing mechanism modified such that the firearm regularly discharges when dropped) we do not yet have evidence that modifications to a firearm are as important or more important than the other circumstances of a self-defense use of a firearm.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #20  
Old 07-12-2015, 8:48 PM
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Default Storage of a gun in a state where the owner does not reside

There is no clear ruling on the legality.

See Fiddletown's post, here - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...22&postcount=7

Summary: maybe it can be made to work. One must be very cautious.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


  #21  
Old 09-05-2015, 8:54 PM
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Default Straw Purchase

Straw purchase has nothing to do with the eligibility of any participant in the transaction(s) to legally own a gun.

The Supreme Court decision in Abramski v United States makes it clear:

Quote:
Holding: Regardless whether the actual buyer could have purchased
the gun,

a person who buys a gun on someone else’s behalf while falsely
claiming that it is for himself makes a material misrepresentation
punishable under 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6),

which prohibits knowingly making false statements “with respect to
any fact material to the lawfulness of a sale of a gun.”
Transferring a gun to ineligible person is a crime, (18 USC 922(b)(2) for dealers in one aspect, 18 USC 922(d) for everybody) but that is not the essence of 'straw purchase'.


See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Straw_Purchase
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


  #22  
Old 11-02-2016, 3:34 PM
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Default

Bump. post 9, for PPTs, updated.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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