#1121
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#1122
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Is any one "desert, Darryl, mysterious, " is any one hitting peak today?
Desert, I know you are good for information, and i have never had any reason not to trust the info provided by you. Trying to get to the bottom of this as are others I'm sure. |
#1124
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One observation: with the proliferation of cellphone cameras... am I the only one wondering where the pics of this new signage and fed / local LEOs are?
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#1125
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Pic from Saturday
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#1126
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Any chance you have the entire sign and not just a corner of it???
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#1128
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I still want to see, and read, the entire sign, don't you desert???
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#1129
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I decided to head out there for myself. Two BLM rangers patrolling the area and they will cite if they hear shooting. |
#1130
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If the law specifically states it can't be enforced on federal land, easy throw out by a judge. Prob not gonna talk yourself out of the ticket when the leo is writing it though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
#1131
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Riverside County Ordinance 514 is also quite specific on signage placement on roads leading to such areas. If the county tries to save $ and skimps on signs, that's another way to beat any such ticket as well!
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#1132
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Yes that's true as well. But like I said, doesn't mean you're not gonna get kicked out. And if you refuse to sign you're likely gonna be arrested lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
#1133
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BUT... If I were to receive and challenge a ticket and the county has failed to post signage as specified (to the letter) in RCO 514... I will win! I have won other similar cases where the city or county failed to post the proper signage at the specified distances, intervals, and roads! If WE have to follow their written rules, so do they!
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#1134
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Anyways, when I get time I'm gonna pull out the topo maps and try to make a visual representation of the wording in 514 as far as descriptive locations go (townships, sections, ranges, etc.) and put it all on one map so we can see the big picture, similar to the SB county shooting map. I don't think that exists yet unless someone else here has done it. |
#1135
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I was standing there speaking with two rangers when all three of us heard shots. The two rangers looked at each other and said "is that them?". At that point one got in his SUV and took off. Before he got to his door the ranger who was still standing with me said "cite him". Here's the deal. They are doing their job, they aren't making the rules, but they are enforcing them. Both were parked at the entrance informing people and showing them the posted signage that clearly informs everyone that SP is now a "no shooting" area. The area is still open to hiking/off roading. They had probably let some peeps through who were in a 4x4 and who claimed they were just going to do some off roading. They know who they let pass that day and kept a mental note of it. They ain't stupid, they notice things like gun cases, shooting related decals on windows, etc. Anybody who passed them was notified. I didn't see a citation written, but I can put two and two together. As far as what specifically led up to BLM closing SP? I mentioned what I was told at the MV BLM office in a previous post, but that doesn't matter. The fact is, signs are clearly posted and are now being enforced. Yeah, it sucks. I really hope the azzhats responsible for its closing get their fair share of those citations. They deserve it. |
#1136
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https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...115.732527&z=9
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If the BLM rangers had been writing tickets for the last 6+ years, maybe this wouldn't be happening! According to the Lake Elsinore city maps, the back side of SP is more than a mile away --- The front area that attracted the worst "offenders" is not! As a CGN steward of this area "officially" for the last 6 years, and longer before I joined CG and went to organized cleanups... I'm pissed off! After all the accolades the BLM has given CGN for our efforts there at SP, it would be really nice to get a BLM official to state the actual reason (preferably in print) as to why this closure is taking place. I mean hell, it just re-opened from the fire closure! If it is simply an enforcement of an old law that's "been on the books", there are more important laws they should be enforcing that have been "on the books" longer... like deporting illegals! Also, if they don't properly post the area and roads exactly per section 514... any ticket written is worthless. Especially if this guy is your legal counsel: Attachment 583413
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#1138
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Why are BLM Rangers, which are Fed LE, enforcing local county ordinances, on Federal Lands? They could in all good conscience, tell RCSD to pack sand. "Do your own damn job". |
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Yup... only 1 left! LOL!!!
Maybe you've heard of this thing called a map? Riverside County extends all the way to the Colorado River and is bigger than many states!
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Last edited by Darryl Licht; 02-20-2017 at 2:53 PM.. |
#1142
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Federal LE has the authority to cite using state and local ordinances but they are not required to do so. The BLM rangers could simply say "not our job" and leave enforcement of the local law to local law enforcement.
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#1143
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True.
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#1145
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Man, this is truly a bummer. After the years of contact I've had with people I met there, I would say 98% had no clue what Calguns was or is. I seen the numbers in people shooting there jump in the last 2 years, exponentially! I think FB and Insta. had more to do with that then anything. The few that I did meet from CG's always seemed to be following the rules and doing some type of trash detail.
I recently went out shooting with a rather large group (20+) in the Barstow area. At the end of the day only a few guys, plus myself started bagging up trash. The rest didn't even give it a second thought. I think its a reflection of the mentality of where society is in general. It's a sad thing and as much as we try and educate and hope it changes things in our sport/hobby I think its a losing battle... but one I will not give up on. Now I guess its all about trying to join a private club or make the 1 1/2 hour drive north. This sucks!!!
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Faith- Family- Friends- Firearms... What else do you need??? |
#1146
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Nope... only veweee quiet hunting will be allowed!
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Exactly! When you look at the numbers of new gun owners since the Obama admin. it becomes pretty clear of the magnitude of people who had probably never been to a range or anything close to it. I know most of us in this small group most likely grew up shooting with our dads and were taught these fundamental rules but unfortunately we pay the price for all the ignorance.
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Faith- Family- Friends- Firearms... What else do you need??? Last edited by retired; 03-02-2017 at 10:20 AM.. Reason: rule 3 |
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#1150
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OK.... I went there today on the way home from work. Got there around noon. In addition to checking everything out myself, I also want to test out my new BFG KO2's and rear shocks!
As a long time user / visitor / steward for Steele Peak here are my personal observations (take em or leave em):
Steele Peak Sign.jpg Why do I say the sign is misleading? Well it doesn't state any ordinance; as we already knew. In addition it states to "Obey all Regulatory Signs" and "Obey Posted Signs". True it does state "Safety Zone No Shooting", but one might argue that that applies to the area at the bottom of the hill adjacent to the road (where all the morons shoot). Now that lower area is clearly marked as "No Shooting" NOTE - the bottom area is the ONLY South facing area to be marked with new "No Shooting" signs. New green fiberglass "stake" type signs are all over the place as you go up the hill. There are new ones marking areas CLEARLY stating "Not a Designated Route", "No Motor Vehicles", and "No Shooting". However, these new "No Shooting" signs are only on your left (north) as you drive up the hill and around to the back. These are all areas that either face Maywood Gun Club or the city of Perris and/or have no backstop. All the "bays" on the right (South and West) as you drive up and turn south are NOT marked "No Shooting" at all... all the way to the back! So, one has to ask... why are the new green stakes stating "No Shooting" only on the North and East facing areas? If the entire area is totally closed, why aren't the signs everywhere? Why no ordinance cited? It's all very strange and misleading. ...and that might just be the point of the sign placement and ambiguity by the BLM. Other than for organized cleanups, I haven't frequented SP on a weekend for over a 6 years. It's just too dangerous in my opinion! And I always go way out back where the safer crowd tends to go. Unless a more detailed sign(s) are posted, I may test this in the coming weeks by going up there mid-week to shoot.
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Last edited by Darryl Licht; 02-22-2017 at 12:31 PM.. |
#1151
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That's what I thought too. Went there this morning and saw that sign and figured they meant the taped off section at the bottom. Also saw several shooters out there.
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#1153
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I believe it got closed because of the liability. There are two ordinances saying it should not be open. Ordinance 514 and Lake Elsinore's ordinance "no shooting within a mile of city limits". And yes Lake Elsinore City is adjacent to Steele Peak and all of Steele Peak is less than a mile from city limits. If someone gets hurt from shooting actions on or around Steele Peak it would open up a huge liability to BLM, Riverside County, and the City of lake Elsinore for not enforcing these ordinances and allowing dangerous behavior to continue. The idea that BLM is "sovereign land" and can make its own rules is not true, BLM is simply land holders and must abide by all laws that pertain to each individual area where it lies. Yes they can make more restrictive rule in each area, but they cannot ignore laws that apply to the areas.
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#1154
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This post is from another thread in which the Lake Elsinore city limits are defined. SP is considered the North Peak Development...... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=115 Someone made enough noise to get the wrong kind of attention with RCSD, and it sounds like RCSD in turn got the cooperation of BLM to enforce the county ordinance. BLM rangers and RCSD can't patrol 24/7. Rest assured the time will come when they will canvas the area and hand out a boatload of tickets. It's not like Riverside County can't use the revenue, especially when it's easy money. Signs are posted and verbal notifications have been handed out. Play time will end eventually. |
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Sadly until someone here is actually given a ticket and the law & sections allegedly being broken are cited, we just wont know for sure! It's all speculation in my eyes. Doesn't the fact that only bottom and the north and east facing areas received the new green fiberglass stakes that read "No Shooting" make you wonder? Odd that they didn't post on both sides as you travel up the hill. I may take my chances on a weekday and giver it a go!
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#1156
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SP has been my go to spot for some time, and I didn’t even have a chance to make it out there this season before I heard rumors of its closing. With this in mind, I gathered various rumors and personal accounts that I had read from different threads on Calguns and walked into the MV BLM office on Feb 8th to ask BLM representatives what the status of SP was. Quote:
After I got home I started researching the city of Lake Elsinore and found out that SP looked pretty close to the LE city limit. I then spent more time looking into LE zoning maps and future development plans. More time was spent comparing LE zoning maps, street maps, and then Google Earth. I collected street names and locations, and after mashing info from all sources and using current street locations in relation to LE city limit boundary lines identifying the North Peak development area, I arrived at the conclusion that ALL shooting areas at SP are WELL within one linear mile (5280 ft) from the North Peak defined boundary area of LE. Further investigation uncovered this Lake Elsinore Specific Plan…… Based on statistics, there has been a 102% growth in population in Lake Elsinore in the fifteen years prior to 2015. Affordable development property in the LA Basin and throughout the foothills and beach communities is about non existent, which leaves the IE as prime location. Just look at the growth in Beaumont, Banning, and San Jacinto as examples of out lying areas that was vacant fifteen years ago. The North Peak area (Steel Peak to us shooters) has a projected 10 year plan of 1200 dwelling units to be built. Now look at the published date on the Specific Plan map above. It is May 4, 2015. Is it that far fetched to surmise that LE City officials haven’t been aware of the trash at SP and the benefits of closing it down a few years before development begins? Imagine the liability of a negligent shot damaging equipment or injuring someone when development begins? How about the potential for vandalism and theft by the obvious irresponsible shooters at SP, which by the amount of trash out there seems like all of us? City Planners aren't stupid, they aren't going to wait until a month or two before development begins to limit public access to a well known and widely used SHOOTING area. Do it a couple years or more BEFORE development begins so that when that time comes it is already known, disseminated, and ACCEPTED that shooting is neither allowed nor tolerated. Take away the "attractive nuisance" and the scum (shooters) stay away. I know, all of this is conjecture. But it’s conjecture based in reality. |
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How the hell does a city annex Federal Lands?? Something smells bad about all this! Plus why did BLM ONLY post the new fiberglass "No Shooting" on areas that face the North (Maywood GC) and East (City of Perris)? If entire area is closed to shooting, why didn't they post both sides and all "bays" commonly used? Just saying...
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#1158
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Old problems are like dry poop, if you let the dry poop sit it doesn't smell but the minute you decide to stir the poop with a stick, the smell comes back. Moral of the story, Don't bring up old problems! |
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If so, it must have been yesterday cuz I was there Wednesday and it was TRASHED!!!
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