Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > THE CALGUNS COMMUNITY > CGSSA Southern California Chapters > Riverside Chapter
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1121  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:13 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougo68 View Post
To Whom it may concern,
My kids and I were target shooting at Steele Peak today and everything was normal until we went to leave. Both the Police and the Rangers were at the entrance stopping each person to let them know that today was the last day of shooting at Steele Peak, it has been closed. From now on they plan to very strictly enforce Riverside County Ordinance 514. I asked which specific section and none of them had a straight answer but they assured me that they will be issuing citations. Just passing my experience along, do with it what you will. For me I am bummed that more of our rights to public land have just been taken away.
Strange that this ordinance also states:

Quote:
"excluding all property in those
sections that are part of the U.S. National Forest and owned by the U.S.
Government."
Since SP is BLM land, surely some LEO (fed or local) can state why this applies to Federally owned land, or why specifically they are allegedly going to write tickets.
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1122  
Old 02-19-2017, 5:36 AM
Calico1404's Avatar
Calico1404 Calico1404 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Is any one "desert, Darryl, mysterious, " is any one hitting peak today?

Desert, I know you are good for information, and i have never had any reason not to trust the info provided by you.

Trying to get to the bottom of this as are others I'm sure.
  #1123  
Old 02-19-2017, 6:05 AM
2c5s's Avatar
2c5s 2c5s is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 319
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Well, SP is officially closed per the RSD and BLM officers I spoke with at 4:30 pm on the 18th. Signs are up and they are patrolling the entrance. To all the ignorant *******s that ruined that place, THANKS!!!
  #1124  
Old 02-19-2017, 7:09 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico1404 View Post
Is any one "desert, Darryl, mysterious, " is any one hitting peak today?

Desert, I know you are good for information, and i have never had any reason not to trust the info provided by you.

Trying to get to the bottom of this as are others I'm sure.
I'm planning on going by there on my way home from work Wednesday.

One observation: with the proliferation of cellphone cameras... am I the only one wondering where the pics of this new signage and fed / local LEOs are?
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1125  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:15 AM
2c5s's Avatar
2c5s 2c5s is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 319
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
I'm planning on going by there on my way home from work Wednesday.

One observation: with the proliferation of cellphone cameras... am I the only one wondering where the pics of this new signage and fed / local LEOs are?
Pic from Saturday
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20170218_170425.jpg (77.9 KB, 102 views)
  #1126  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:21 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2c5s View Post
Pic from Saturday
Any chance you have the entire sign and not just a corner of it???
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1127  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:23 AM
desertrider's Avatar
desertrider desertrider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,465
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2c5s View Post
Pic from Saturday
I've never been more disappointed to have someone support my claims.

  #1128  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:29 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrider View Post
I've never been more disappointed to have someone support my claims.

I still want to see, and read, the entire sign, don't you desert???
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1129  
Old 02-19-2017, 1:59 PM
desertrider's Avatar
desertrider desertrider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,465
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
I still want to see, and read, the entire sign, don't you desert???
Asked for. Delivered.

I decided to head out there for myself.








Two BLM rangers patrolling the area and they will cite if they hear shooting.
  #1130  
Old 02-19-2017, 3:46 PM
TOM_ONE's Avatar
TOM_ONE TOM_ONE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Riverside County
Posts: 630
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
Strange that this ordinance also states:







Since SP is BLM land, surely some LEO (fed or local) can state why this applies to Federally owned land, or why specifically they are allegedly going to write tickets.


If the law specifically states it can't be enforced on federal land, easy throw out by a judge. Prob not gonna talk yourself out of the ticket when the leo is writing it though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  #1131  
Old 02-19-2017, 4:22 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM_ONE View Post
If the law specifically states it can't be enforced on federal land, easy throw out by a judge. Prob not gonna talk yourself out of the ticket when the leo is writing it though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very true...

Riverside County Ordinance 514 is also quite specific on signage placement on roads leading to such areas. If the county tries to save $ and skimps on signs, that's another way to beat any such ticket as well!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1132  
Old 02-19-2017, 5:32 PM
TOM_ONE's Avatar
TOM_ONE TOM_ONE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Riverside County
Posts: 630
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
Very true...



Riverside County Ordinance 514 is also quite specific on signage placement on roads leading to such areas. If the county tries to save $ and skimps on signs, that's another way to beat any such ticket as well!


Yes that's true as well. But like I said, doesn't mean you're not gonna get kicked out. And if you refuse to sign you're likely gonna be arrested lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  #1133  
Old 02-19-2017, 7:02 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM_ONE View Post
Yes that's true as well. But like I said, doesn't mean you're not gonna get kicked out. And if you refuse to sign you're likely gonna be arrested lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not saying I would...

BUT...

If I were to receive and challenge a ticket and the county has failed to post signage as specified (to the letter) in RCO 514... I will win! I have won other similar cases where the city or county failed to post the proper signage at the specified distances, intervals, and roads! If WE have to follow their written rules, so do they!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1134  
Old 02-20-2017, 12:11 AM
boomdickie boomdickie is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
Strange that this ordinance also states:



Since SP is BLM land, surely some LEO (fed or local) can state why this applies to Federally owned land, or why specifically they are allegedly going to write tickets.
The way I read it, that quote only applies to the Garner Valley area as described in Section 8 (g) of Ord 514 and describes USFS land in that particular area only. In no other area of the text does it make mention of federal lands that I could find. But it does seem odd that they would focus on that area specifically, doesn't it?

Anyways, when I get time I'm gonna pull out the topo maps and try to make a visual representation of the wording in 514 as far as descriptive locations go (townships, sections, ranges, etc.) and put it all on one map so we can see the big picture, similar to the SB county shooting map. I don't think that exists yet unless someone else here has done it.
  #1135  
Old 02-20-2017, 5:03 AM
desertrider's Avatar
desertrider desertrider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,465
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
Strange that this ordinance also states:



Since SP is BLM land, surely some LEO (fed or local) can state why this applies to Federally owned land, or why specifically they are allegedly going to write tickets.
Ain't no allegedly about it.

I was standing there speaking with two rangers when all three of us heard shots. The two rangers looked at each other and said "is that them?". At that point one got in his SUV and took off.






Before he got to his door the ranger who was still standing with me said "cite him".

Here's the deal. They are doing their job, they aren't making the rules, but they are enforcing them. Both were parked at the entrance informing people and showing them the posted signage that clearly informs everyone that SP is now a "no shooting" area.

The area is still open to hiking/off roading. They had probably let some peeps through who were in a 4x4 and who claimed they were just going to do some off roading.

They know who they let pass that day and kept a mental note of it. They ain't stupid, they notice things like gun cases, shooting related decals on windows, etc. Anybody who passed them was notified.

I didn't see a citation written, but I can put two and two together.

As far as what specifically led up to BLM closing SP? I mentioned what I was told at the MV BLM office in a previous post, but that doesn't matter.

The fact is, signs are clearly posted and are now being enforced.

Yeah, it sucks. I really hope the azzhats responsible for its closing get their fair share of those citations. They deserve it.
  #1136  
Old 02-20-2017, 9:11 AM
Half Cocked's Avatar
Half Cocked Half Cocked is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stuck in the Socialist Republik of Kalifornistan
Posts: 750
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomdickie View Post
Anyways, when I get time I'm gonna pull out the topo maps and try to make a visual representation of the wording in 514 as far as descriptive locations go (townships, sections, ranges, etc.) and put it all on one map so we can see the big picture, similar to the SB county shooting map. I don't think that exists yet unless someone else here has done it.
Here is a map that someone posted that shows the cutoff between west and east Riverside County per ordinance 514. I don't know why there are two red lines on the map down by Aguanga.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...115.732527&z=9
__________________
  #1137  
Old 02-20-2017, 9:26 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrider View Post
Ain't no allegedly about it.

I was standing there speaking with two rangers when all three of us heard shots. The two rangers looked at each other and said "is that them?". At that point one got in his SUV and took off.






Before he got to his door the ranger who was still standing with me said "cite him".

Here's the deal. They are doing their job, they aren't making the rules, but they are enforcing them. Both were parked at the entrance informing people and showing them the posted signage that clearly informs everyone that SP is now a "no shooting" area.

The area is still open to hiking/off roading. They had probably let some peeps through who were in a 4x4 and who claimed they were just going to do some off roading.

They know who they let pass that day and kept a mental note of it. They ain't stupid, they notice things like gun cases, shooting related decals on windows, etc. Anybody who passed them was notified.

I didn't see a citation written, but I can put two and two together.

As far as what specifically led up to BLM closing SP? I mentioned what I was told at the MV BLM office in a previous post, but that doesn't matter.

The fact is, signs are clearly posted and are now being enforced.

Yeah, it sucks. I really hope the azzhats responsible for its closing get their fair share of those citations. They deserve it.

If the BLM rangers had been writing tickets for the last 6+ years, maybe this wouldn't be happening!

According to the Lake Elsinore city maps, the back side of SP is more than a mile away --- The front area that attracted the worst "offenders" is not!

As a CGN steward of this area "officially" for the last 6 years, and longer before I joined CG and went to organized cleanups... I'm pissed off!

After all the accolades the BLM has given CGN for our efforts there at SP, it would be really nice to get a BLM official to state the actual reason (preferably in print) as to why this closure is taking place. I mean hell, it just re-opened from the fire closure!

If it is simply an enforcement of an old law that's "been on the books", there are more important laws they should be enforcing that have been "on the books" longer... like deporting illegals!

Also, if they don't properly post the area and roads exactly per section 514... any ticket written is worthless. Especially if this guy is your legal counsel:
Attachment 583413
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1138  
Old 02-20-2017, 1:00 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Socialist Republic of SoCal
Posts: 10,220
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
If it is simply an enforcement of an old law that's "been on the books", there are more important laws they should be enforcing that have been "on the books" longer... like deporting illegals!
A bit off topic, but a solidly valid point. If local LE in CrapOfornia are not obligated to enforce Fed Laws in this state. And most due to leftist policies of their agencies, actually refuse to do so.

Why are BLM Rangers, which are Fed LE, enforcing local county ordinances, on Federal Lands?

They could in all good conscience, tell RCSD to pack sand. "Do your own damn job".
  #1139  
Old 02-20-2017, 1:37 PM
Calico1404's Avatar
Calico1404 Calico1404 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Each Ranger carries both Local and Federal Citation books. Depending on where you are on the land and or what you are doing they have the authority to cite using either.
  #1140  
Old 02-20-2017, 2:18 PM
Bodh1 Bodh1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Free State
Posts: 435
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

So this leaves one place left in the county to shoot at.
  #1141  
Old 02-20-2017, 2:50 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodh1 View Post
So this leaves one place left in the county to shoot at.
Yup... only 1 left! LOL!!!

Maybe you've heard of this thing called a map?

Riverside County extends all the way to the Colorado River and is bigger than many states!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx

Last edited by Darryl Licht; 02-20-2017 at 2:53 PM..
  #1142  
Old 02-20-2017, 2:58 PM
Half Cocked's Avatar
Half Cocked Half Cocked is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stuck in the Socialist Republik of Kalifornistan
Posts: 750
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico1404 View Post
Each Ranger carries both Local and Federal Citation books. Depending on where you are on the land and or what you are doing they have the authority to cite using either.
Federal LE has the authority to cite using state and local ordinances but they are not required to do so. The BLM rangers could simply say "not our job" and leave enforcement of the local law to local law enforcement.
__________________
  #1143  
Old 02-20-2017, 2:59 PM
Calico1404's Avatar
Calico1404 Calico1404 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Cocked View Post
Federal LE has the authority to cite using state and local ordinances but they are not required to do so. The BLM rangers could simply say "not our job" and leave enforcement of the local law to local law enforcement.
True.
  #1144  
Old 02-20-2017, 8:08 PM
Jrocket Jrocket is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 154
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Im curious if hunting will still be aloud there?
  #1145  
Old 02-20-2017, 8:48 PM
Phat Daddy's Avatar
Phat Daddy Phat Daddy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: So Kal
Posts: 388
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Man, this is truly a bummer. After the years of contact I've had with people I met there, I would say 98% had no clue what Calguns was or is. I seen the numbers in people shooting there jump in the last 2 years, exponentially! I think FB and Insta. had more to do with that then anything. The few that I did meet from CG's always seemed to be following the rules and doing some type of trash detail.

I recently went out shooting with a rather large group (20+) in the Barstow area. At the end of the day only a few guys, plus myself started bagging up trash. The rest didn't even give it a second thought. I think its a reflection of the mentality of where society is in general. It's a sad thing and as much as we try and educate and hope it changes things in our sport/hobby I think its a losing battle... but one I will not give up on.

Now I guess its all about trying to join a private club or make the 1 1/2 hour drive north. This sucks!!!
__________________

Faith- Family- Friends- Firearms... What else do you need???
  #1146  
Old 02-20-2017, 8:51 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrocket View Post
Im curious if hunting will still be aloud there?
Nope... only veweee quiet hunting will be allowed!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1147  
Old 02-20-2017, 8:55 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Daddy View Post
Man, this is truly a bummer. After the years of contact I've had with people I met there, I would say 98% had no clue what Calguns was or is. I seen the numbers in people shooting there jump in the last 2 years, exponentially! I think FB and Insta. had more to do with that then anything. The few that I did meet from CG's always seemed to be following the rules and doing some type of trash detail.

I recently went out shooting with a rather large group (20+) in the Barstow area. At the end of the day only a few guys, plus myself started bagging up trash. The rest didn't even give it a second thought. I think its a reflection of the mentality of where society is in general. It's a sad thing and as much as we try and educate and hope it changes things in our sport/hobby I think its a losing battle... but one I will not give up on.

Now I guess its all about trying to join a private club or make the 1 1/2 hour drive north. This sucks!!!
It all SHOULD start at home... but sadly the majority of our new shooters weren't taught these things! They weren't taught responsibility or respect!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1148  
Old 02-20-2017, 9:10 PM
Phat Daddy's Avatar
Phat Daddy Phat Daddy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: So Kal
Posts: 388
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
It all SHOULD start at home... but sadly the majority of our new shooters weren't taught these things! They weren't taught responsibility or respect!
Exactly! When you look at the numbers of new gun owners since the Obama admin. it becomes pretty clear of the magnitude of people who had probably never been to a range or anything close to it. I know most of us in this small group most likely grew up shooting with our dads and were taught these fundamental rules but unfortunately we pay the price for all the ignorance.
__________________

Faith- Family- Friends- Firearms... What else do you need???

Last edited by retired; 03-02-2017 at 10:20 AM.. Reason: rule 3
  #1149  
Old 02-21-2017, 6:43 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Daddy View Post
Exactly! When you look at the numbers of new gun owners since the Obummer admin. it becomes pretty clear of the magnitude of people who had probably never been to a range or anything close to it. I know most of us in this small group most likely grew up shooting with our dads and were taught these fundamental rules but unfortunately we pay the price for all the ignorance.
SO true... and I'm passing that along to my grandkids! Hopefully it will stick!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1150  
Old 02-22-2017, 12:29 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

OK.... I went there today on the way home from work. Got there around noon. In addition to checking everything out myself, I also want to test out my new BFG KO2's and rear shocks!

As a long time user / visitor / steward for Steele Peak here are my personal observations (take em or leave em):
  • The sign at the bottom of the hill is very misleading. (more on that in a minute)
  • Signs further up are even more misleading. (If it is a total closure to shooting)
  • Over a dozen shooters out there today at midday!
  • Not a LEO in sight, and I stopped and chatted with several shooters who'd been there all morning who said they hadn't seen one at all.
  • Went all the way to the back of SP and out in 2 wheel drive... new KO2's are friggin amazing tires! But I have a high ground clearance 4x4 truck.
    Road is severely rutted out due to all the rain and there are many large deep ruts, so drive carefully!

Steele Peak Sign.jpg

Why do I say the sign is misleading? Well it doesn't state any ordinance; as we already knew. In addition it states to "Obey all Regulatory Signs" and "Obey Posted Signs". True it does state "Safety Zone No Shooting", but one might argue that that applies to the area at the bottom of the hill adjacent to the road (where all the morons shoot). Now that lower area is clearly marked as "No Shooting" NOTE - the bottom area is the ONLY South facing area to be marked with new "No Shooting" signs.

New green fiberglass "stake" type signs are all over the place as you go up the hill. There are new ones marking areas CLEARLY stating "Not a Designated Route", "No Motor Vehicles", and "No Shooting".
However, these new "No Shooting" signs are only on your left (north) as you drive up the hill and around to the back. These are all areas that either face Maywood Gun Club or the city of Perris and/or have no backstop. All the "bays" on the right (South and West) as you drive up and turn south are NOT marked "No Shooting" at all... all the way to the back!

So, one has to ask... why are the new green stakes stating "No Shooting" only on the North and East facing areas? If the entire area is totally closed, why aren't the signs everywhere? Why no ordinance cited? It's all very strange and misleading. ...and that might just be the point of the sign placement and ambiguity by the BLM.

Other than for organized cleanups, I haven't frequented SP on a weekend for over a 6 years. It's just too dangerous in my opinion! And I always go way out back where the safer crowd tends to go. Unless a more detailed sign(s) are posted, I may test this in the coming weeks by going up there mid-week to shoot.
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx

Last edited by Darryl Licht; 02-22-2017 at 12:31 PM..
  #1151  
Old 02-22-2017, 3:18 PM
yarjarrar's Avatar
yarjarrar yarjarrar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 49
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
that applies to the area at the bottom of the hill adjacent to the road
That's what I thought too. Went there this morning and saw that sign and figured they meant the taped off section at the bottom. Also saw several shooters out there.
  #1152  
Old 02-22-2017, 8:49 PM
Phat Daddy's Avatar
Phat Daddy Phat Daddy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: So Kal
Posts: 388
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Interesting. Following closely.
__________________

Faith- Family- Friends- Firearms... What else do you need???
  #1153  
Old 02-23-2017, 7:09 AM
Pit_bull Pit_bull is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 10
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I believe it got closed because of the liability. There are two ordinances saying it should not be open. Ordinance 514 and Lake Elsinore's ordinance "no shooting within a mile of city limits". And yes Lake Elsinore City is adjacent to Steele Peak and all of Steele Peak is less than a mile from city limits. If someone gets hurt from shooting actions on or around Steele Peak it would open up a huge liability to BLM, Riverside County, and the City of lake Elsinore for not enforcing these ordinances and allowing dangerous behavior to continue. The idea that BLM is "sovereign land" and can make its own rules is not true, BLM is simply land holders and must abide by all laws that pertain to each individual area where it lies. Yes they can make more restrictive rule in each area, but they cannot ignore laws that apply to the areas.
  #1154  
Old 02-23-2017, 11:30 AM
desertrider's Avatar
desertrider desertrider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,465
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit_bull View Post
I believe it got closed because of the liability. There are two ordinances saying it should not be open. Ordinance 514 and Lake Elsinore's ordinance "no shooting within a mile of city limits". And yes Lake Elsinore City is adjacent to Steele Peak and all of Steele Peak is less than a mile from city limits. If someone gets hurt from shooting actions on or around Steele Peak it would open up a huge liability to BLM, Riverside County, and the City of lake Elsinore for not enforcing these ordinances and allowing dangerous behavior to continue. The idea that BLM is "sovereign land" and can make its own rules is not true, BLM is simply land holders and must abide by all laws that pertain to each individual area where it lies. Yes they can make more restrictive rule in each area, but they cannot ignore laws that apply to the areas.
..A small portion of SP is actually within the Lake Elsinore city boundary, and the rest of the SP area where people usually shoot is definitely well within the 1 mile "no shooting" boundary per Ord. 514.

This post is from another thread in which the Lake Elsinore city limits are defined. SP is considered the North Peak Development...... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=115

Someone made enough noise to get the wrong kind of attention with RCSD, and it sounds like RCSD in turn got the cooperation of BLM to enforce the county ordinance.

BLM rangers and RCSD can't patrol 24/7. Rest assured the time will come when they will canvas the area and hand out a boatload of tickets. It's not like Riverside County can't use the revenue, especially when it's easy money.

Signs are posted and verbal notifications have been handed out. Play time will end eventually.
  #1155  
Old 02-23-2017, 1:13 PM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrider View Post
..A small portion of SP is actually within the Lake Elsinore city boundary, and the rest of the SP area where people usually shoot is definitely well within the 1 mile "no shooting" boundary per Ord. 514.

This post is from another thread in which the Lake Elsinore city limits are defined. SP is considered the North Peak Development...... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=115

Someone made enough noise to get the wrong kind of attention with RCSD, and it sounds like RCSD in turn got the cooperation of BLM to enforce the county ordinance.

BLM rangers and RCSD can't patrol 24/7. Rest assured the time will come when they will canvas the area and hand out a boatload of tickets. It's not like Riverside County can't use the revenue, especially when it's easy money.

Signs are posted and verbal notifications have been handed out. Play time will end eventually.
Not according to the Lake Elsinore City map I recently looked at last week... the front area is within a mile, the rear is not.

Sadly until someone here is actually given a ticket and the law & sections allegedly being broken are cited, we just wont know for sure! It's all speculation in my eyes.

Doesn't the fact that only bottom and the north and east facing areas received the new green fiberglass stakes that read "No Shooting" make you wonder? Odd that they didn't post on both sides as you travel up the hill.

I may take my chances on a weekday and giver it a go!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1156  
Old 02-24-2017, 9:16 AM
desertrider's Avatar
desertrider desertrider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,465
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrider View Post
..A small portion of SP is actually within the Lake Elsinore city boundary, and the rest of the SP area where people usually shoot is definitely well within the 1 mile "no shooting" boundary per Ord. 514.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
Not according to the Lake Elsinore City map I recently looked at last week... the front area is within a mile, the rear is not.

Sadly until someone here is actually given a ticket and the law & sections allegedly being broken are cited, we just wont know for sure! It's all speculation in my eyes.

Doesn't the fact that only bottom and the north and east facing areas received the new green fiberglass stakes that read "No Shooting" make you wonder? Odd that they didn't post on both sides as you travel up the hill.

I may take my chances on a weekday and giver it a go!
Warning: TLDR post immediately ahead. I will not provide a “TLDR for Dummies” Cliff Notes version at the end. Most people gloss over my rantings, so it doesn’t matter anyway.

SP has been my go to spot for some time, and I didn’t even have a chance to make it out there this season before I heard rumors of its closing. With this in mind, I gathered various rumors and personal accounts that I had read from different threads on Calguns and walked into the MV BLM office on Feb 8th to ask BLM representatives what the status of SP was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrider View Post
I was in MV today and took the opportunity to swing by the BLM office.

The gentleman who I spoke with confirmed that SP is closed to shooting and is currently taped off as a no shooting zone and enforced by RCSD.

I asked if the entire area is closed for all purposes, or just to shooting. His response was that it is closed to shooting, is for the present time opened to off roading, and opened to hiking without restriction.

Apparently the area will soon be restricted to hiking only because it has been determined that the area is a habitat for some species of creature. Signs/fencing will eventually close off certain trails.

He acknowledged that there is some kind of Riv. County Board of Supervisors meeting to be held in the near future to discuss the future of SP, but he did not have any specifics on that.

Sounds to me like a triple whammy trifecta of getting pummeled in the keister, dry.

1. Complaints of shooting by nearby residents.
2. Potential or current annexation by Lake Elsinore.
3. Endangered habitat for wildlife.

All the trash is just icing on the cake for this cluster poke.

After I got home I started researching the city of Lake Elsinore and found out that SP looked pretty close to the LE city limit. I then spent more time looking into LE zoning maps and future development plans. More time was spent comparing LE zoning maps, street maps, and then Google Earth. I collected street names and locations, and after mashing info from all sources and using current street locations in relation to LE city limit boundary lines identifying the North Peak development area, I arrived at the conclusion that ALL shooting areas at SP are WELL within one linear mile (5280 ft) from the North Peak defined boundary area of LE.

Further investigation uncovered this Lake Elsinore Specific Plan……




Based on statistics, there has been a 102% growth in population in Lake Elsinore in the fifteen years prior to 2015. Affordable development property in the LA Basin and throughout the foothills and beach communities is about non existent, which leaves the IE as prime location. Just look at the growth in Beaumont, Banning, and San Jacinto as examples of out lying areas that was vacant fifteen years ago.

The North Peak area (Steel Peak to us shooters) has a projected 10 year plan of 1200 dwelling units to be built. Now look at the published date on the Specific Plan map above. It is May 4, 2015.

Is it that far fetched to surmise that LE City officials haven’t been aware of the trash at SP and the benefits of closing it down a few years before development begins? Imagine the liability of a negligent shot damaging equipment or injuring someone when development begins? How about the potential for vandalism and theft by the obvious irresponsible shooters at SP, which by the amount of trash out there seems like all of us?

City Planners aren't stupid, they aren't going to wait until a month or two before development begins to limit public access to a well known and widely used SHOOTING area. Do it a couple years or more BEFORE development begins so that when that time comes it is already known, disseminated, and ACCEPTED that shooting is neither allowed nor tolerated. Take away the "attractive nuisance" and the scum (shooters) stay away.

I know, all of this is conjecture. But it’s conjecture based in reality.
  #1157  
Old 02-24-2017, 9:51 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrider View Post
..A small portion of SP is actually within the Lake Elsinore city boundary, and the rest of the SP area where people usually shoot is definitely well within the 1 mile "no shooting" boundary per Ord. 514.
If what you say is true...

How the hell does a city annex Federal Lands?? Something smells bad about all this!

Plus why did BLM ONLY post the new fiberglass "No Shooting" on areas that face the North (Maywood GC) and East (City of Perris)? If entire area is closed to shooting, why didn't they post both sides and all "bays" commonly used?

Just saying...
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
  #1158  
Old 02-24-2017, 10:41 AM
vaka's Avatar
vaka vaka is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 977
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
If what you say is true...

How the hell does a city annex Federal Lands?? Something smells bad about all this!

Plus why did BLM ONLY post the new fiberglass "No Shooting" on areas that face the North (Maywood GC) and East (City of Perris)? If entire area is closed to shooting, why didn't they post both sides and all "bays" commonly used?

Just saying...
Just saying ....... maybe it's not really all about the trash at steel peak ,maybe just maybe other agendas played into it
__________________
Old problems are like dry poop, if you let the dry poop sit it doesn't smell but the minute you decide to stir the poop with a stick, the smell comes back. Moral of the story, Don't bring up old problems!
  #1159  
Old 02-24-2017, 10:46 AM
yarjarrar's Avatar
yarjarrar yarjarrar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 49
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

It's a lot cleaner out here today, someone must have done a big cleanup.
Shooter count: 10
Cops count: 0

Last edited by yarjarrar; 02-24-2017 at 10:55 AM..
  #1160  
Old 02-24-2017, 11:11 AM
Darryl Licht's Avatar
Darryl Licht Darryl Licht is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Inland Empire between the mountains, the desert, and the beach
Posts: 2,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarjarrar View Post
It's a lot cleaner out here today, someone must have done a big cleanup.
Shooter count: 10
Cops count: 0
If so, it must have been yesterday cuz I was there Wednesday and it was TRASHED!!!
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
--Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. --Groucho Marx
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:03 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy