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  #1  
Old 04-19-2018, 9:11 AM
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Default Range Report: Les Baer Premier II (1.5") is my first 1911 :)

I was thinking "Dan Wesson PM7... Kimber Gold Match... " and found PII 1.5" inventory at http://www.galleryofguns.com/ , clicked lightning fast. shipped to local LGS.

Picked up 04/17 and went to the range 04/18.
I compared with CZ 75 Tactical Sport 9mm side-by-side. what a blasphemy to holy 1911 sanctum.


Trigger pull: LB 4LBS, CZ 2LBS (out of box). LB trigger is slightly gritty / stiff, maybe it can be smoothed
Grip Ergo: TS has thin grips, so not bulky but bit too smooth. I want to change LB to aggressive G10 grips.
Sight: LB plain black + Adjustable, TS Dawson fiber + Adjustable. definitely I need fiber optic sight for LB.

LB's slide - Barrel fitting is fantastic,
LB's Frame - Slide is not simply "tight" or "stiff", this is... heavy at first, but when it starts moving it's ice on glass smooth.
It should be two precision metal surface touching with micron oil layer, suctioning by vacuum pressure.

Trigger and sighting training at 7 yard.
Natural sighting, easy and comfortable recoil, very fun.



15 yard accuracy. cheapo ammo is not for Premier gun?


25 yard accuracy. so far I made 2 quick loads, LongShot 8.0 vs Accurate No.7 12.5.
Accurate #7 apparently better than LongShot.
will try more recipes and take chrono later, 25 yard grouping must be 1.5" or less! (0.75 by gun / 0.75 by me)


100 Yard steel shooting. still thinking hold-over, checking POA/POI
Flying 45ACP is very slow and big and falling down, interesting

LB PII Nosler 185 JHP / Accurate No.7 12.5gr
110yd Torso 6/7
100yd Ram 7/7
100yd Half Ram 13/21=64% Hold-over 7 inch from center of steel

CZ 75 Tactical Sport 9mm, casual shooting to compare
Hornady XTP 90 / LongShot 6.8
100yd Half Ram 15/20=75%
Hold-over 1.5 inch from center of steel

another ammo, Fiber sight, more hold-over sight picture learning can improve the score.

Conclusion: Satisfied for quality and fun, LB PII is precise work of steel.
More 1911? : for accuracy maybe no...? But as CZ fanboi, want to add PM7 and compare to LB.
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2018, 9:38 AM
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I’m really happy with the VZ operator 2 grips on mine. They are a tad smaller front to back but feel great in hand. Yours will feel much better once it breaks in. My trigger measures 4 lbs but feels lighter because of the pull and crispness of the break.
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  #3  
Old 04-19-2018, 10:00 AM
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808@515,
Thank you "VZ Grips Operator II Standard Full Size" added to wish list
I need more plinking load for trigger Break-in, wish it goes like Dan Wesson 715 (4 lbs but very short crisp break)
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  #4  
Old 04-19-2018, 10:57 AM
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Great review and shooting!
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2018, 4:12 PM
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Try some 200gr SWC plated or jacketed with longshot or HS-6.... Hotter loads in both powders seem to work out to 100 yards ,,, just for fun shooting clays on the berms... Work up and find your accuracy load... Nosler 185's whup azz but are not as accurate at longer or shorter range...
Cheers....
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  #6  
Old 04-19-2018, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 690 Enduro R View Post
Great review and shooting!
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec223 View Post
Try some 200gr SWC plated or jacketed with longshot or HS-6.... Hotter loads in both powders seem to work out to 100 yards ,,, just for fun shooting clays on the berms... Work up and find your accuracy load... Nosler 185's whup azz but are not as accurate at longer or shorter range...
Cheers....
200gr Semi Wad Cutter, for long range stability, sounds reasonable.
Thanks I have HS-6, will try these powder
No.7, PowerPistol, HS-6
with these bullets
Nosler 185, Hornady XTP 185, XTP 200, will buy 200SWC
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  #7  
Old 04-19-2018, 8:43 PM
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Congrats on your first 1911. So I assume you didn't have any failures during the Les Baer break in period. I am always curious as to the regular 3" guarantee vs the 1.5" as many have said it's not worth the extra money.

I have one of each in a Premier 2 so one day I need to shoot them and see how they perform side by side from a rest with some various factory ammo. Wish I had a ransom rest as that will take away some of the human error.
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2018, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeeds View Post
Congrats on your first 1911. So I assume you didn't have any failures during the Les Baer break in period. I am always curious as to the regular 3" guarantee vs the 1.5" as many have said it's not worth the extra money.

I have one of each in a Premier 2 so one day I need to shoot them and see how they perform side by side from a rest with some various factory ammo. Wish I had a ransom rest as that will take away some of the human error.
right, I had no FTF or FTEs with Federal ball / Fiocchi ball / JHP handloads total 350.
also I'm thinking to buy Ransom Rest just to see how they work, and difference between me and the rest
You can buy thousands bucks guns so why not buy Ransom Rest it's cheaper than guns or pile of ammo
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2018, 9:16 PM
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Nice 1911 ! Not many in CA that compare to that lovely firearm.

Just my 2 cents- VZ grips work great on all of my 1911's and I have yet to find better TS grips than LOK thin. They cut to fit at no added charge, provide great g10 grip, are very thin and reduce the grip size comfortably, and they don't heat up like aluminum.

The trigger will definitely improve with use. The grit is likely from the trigger shoe, I doubt that the sear would have a rough edge.

I'm in the midst of converting my TS for uspsa open and found the stock barrel lockup and accuracy to be impressive.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2018, 4:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meanrock View Post
Nice 1911 ! Not many in CA that compare to that lovely firearm.

Just my 2 cents- VZ grips work great on all of my 1911's and I have yet to find better TS grips than LOK thin. They cut to fit at no added charge, provide great g10 grip, are very thin and reduce the grip size comfortably, and they don't heat up like aluminum.

The trigger will definitely improve with use. The grit is likely from the trigger shoe, I doubt that the sear would have a rough edge.

I'm in the midst of converting my TS for uspsa open and found the stock barrel lockup and accuracy to be impressive.
Thank you, I checked several CA 1911's published accuracy,
Les Baer 1.5" = 1.5" / 50
Ed Brown, at FAQ, 1.5" / 50 ?
Kimber Super match = 1/25 >= 2/50
Wilson Combat Classic = 1/25
So for accuracy I'm completely satisfied.

Grip for CZ75TS...
http://lokgrips.com/gun-grips/cz-75/...nge-black-g10/
"Med Length for TS" ?
it should be aggressive texture, I have two TS (9mm/40) so will try one then another.
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2018, 8:12 AM
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Yep that is the right website and the right cut- unless you have replaced your mag well( I don't see one in your picture- if you don't have one on it would be the full size).

I went with the checkered finish over the bogies- http://lokgrips.com/gun-grips/cz-75/...lue-black-g10/

A buddy ordered the bogies later and I had a chance to feel them- they are sharpish but the checkered finish suits me fine. Plenty of grip and it is aggressive.

Last edited by meanrock; 04-20-2018 at 8:19 AM..
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  #12  
Old 04-21-2018, 5:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meanrock View Post
Yep that is the right website and the right cut- unless you have replaced your mag well( I don't see one in your picture- if you don't have one on it would be the full size).

I went with the checkered finish over the bogies- http://lokgrips.com/gun-grips/cz-75/...lue-black-g10/

A buddy ordered the bogies later and I had a chance to feel them- they are sharpish but the checkered finish suits me fine. Plenty of grip and it is aggressive.
Thanks I ordered "Med Length for TS" for TS40 (still with plastic Mag well),
when it's great I will order "Full Size" for TS9 (Mag Well removed).
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  #13  
Old 04-21-2018, 7:51 AM
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I love reading your range reports. Out of all the guns that you have, which 5 are your most accurate and precise shooters at around 25 or 50 yards?

Not in any particular order but mine are:
CZ 97B-E Copperhead
CZ Tactical Sport
Sig P226 X5
Tanfoglio Limited
Les Baer PII
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2018, 8:16 AM
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Sweet! Thanks for the range report... Am thinking of adding a Les Baer to my collection (the other 1911 I have is a Springfield MCO).

Cheers...

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  #15  
Old 04-21-2018, 9:06 AM
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Very nice shooting and range report. Thank you.
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  #16  
Old 04-21-2018, 11:09 AM
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Awesome report..thanx!!!
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2018, 4:04 PM
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Thanks > rodralig, Snuffleupagus, Too Swole

rodralig, Turner's has one S.R.P and GalleryOfGuns has one Premier II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeeds View Post
I love reading your range reports. Out of all the guns that you have, which 5 are your most accurate and precise shooters at around 25 or 50 yards?

Not in any particular order but mine are:
CZ 97B-E Copperhead
CZ Tactical Sport
Sig P226 X5
Tanfoglio Limited
Les Baer PII
Most accurate shooters from my guns, by peak performance at 25yd... personal preference. YMMV!
Top 3
Dan Wesson 15: 0.9/25 (Scope)
Walther PPQ + Q5: 1.25/25 (open sight)
Dan Wesson 715: 1.25/25 (open sight)

These are 1.5/25 class guns so far,
SpringField XDM 5.25,
CZ 75 Tactical Sport,
Sig P320 (Bar-Sto Match Fit), P226 (Bar-Sto drop in)
S&W 617, 627, 629, M500, 460XVR,
CZ Kadet II,

Still working for VP9(Barrel, sights, ammo), LB PII(learning, and ammo).

Slight change of Powder, brass length, primer, barrel copper fouling, can quickly cause 0.5-1.5/25 difference. so in this area we are testing mainly ammo than gun itself.
total inaccuracy = (A. Gun's mechanical accuracy) + (B. 12345678... Ammo's inaccuracy) + (C. shooter's condition)
So I'm fumbling around (A) by trying many (B) samples at several weekends (C).

CZ 97B-E Copperhead
CZ Tactical Sport
Sig P226 X5
Tanfoglio Limited
Les Baer PII
I think all of these gun can go 1.5/25 by quality ammo, 1.0-1.25/25 with best matching ammo.
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  #18  
Old 04-21-2018, 5:39 PM
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Today's image, LB PII should like hot load but not +P. (185grain No.7 max 13.0)
For factory load, Federal AE45SUP1 looks good.

next time I will check Nosler 185 No.7 12.6/12.9/13.2 and same test with Alliant PowerPistol, additional 200 Xtreme SWC... too many homework
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Old 04-21-2018, 6:19 PM
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Nice shooting!!!
I've got the Les Baer on my want list but need to take a step back lately because I have a Colt sitting in a 'smith shop. Good things come when you wait....
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Old 04-21-2018, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
rodralig, Turner's has one S.R.P and GalleryOfGuns has one Premier II
Oh oh...

I'm looking at it right now. Now, if the Premier is the flagship model, why would one get the SRP...


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Old 04-21-2018, 8:30 PM
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I worked up a very nice load with 185gr hp noslers with CFE Pistol... Warm but very comfortable...
Cheers
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Old 04-21-2018, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Oh oh...

I'm looking at it right now. Now, if the Premier is the flagship model, why would one get the SRP...

_
https://www.lesbaer.com/Swift.html
Quote:
• Deburred for tactical carry • DuPont® S coating on complete pistol for maximum corrosion resistance • Test fired with Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok ammo and Remington Sabre 230 grain H.P. ammo and guaranteed to shoot 2 1/2" groups at 50 yards
SRP should have beautiful surface, carry debarring, and bit accurate than regular Premier? sounds promising!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec223 View Post
I worked up a very nice load with 185gr hp noslers with CFE Pistol... Warm but very comfortable...
Cheers
CFE Pistol, I'm interested for 40SW 135gr and 9mm 90gr... should try...
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
https://www.lesbaer.com/Swift.html

SRP should have beautiful surface, carry debarring, and bit accurate than regular Premier? sounds promising!
I was dreaming about the SRP last night...

And just as I was in the range an hour back, I'm beginning to see Les Baer 1911s...

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  #24  
Old 04-23-2018, 10:37 AM
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Sending my Premier II slide back today as it shot loose. It is a wobbly in the dovetail. It shoots great still. One of my favorites.
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Old 04-23-2018, 8:45 PM
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Cheat sheet for 45ACP based on chronograph,

230grain factory loads are too hard for 100 yards.


185grain works almost same as 9mm 115-124 grain.
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Old 04-24-2018, 7:36 AM
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Awesome report and great shooting. Glad to hear you like your PII. My Baer has a heavier trigger compared to other 1911s such as Ed Brown and Wilson Combat, but I got used to it eventually.
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Old 04-24-2018, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teflondog View Post
Awesome report and great shooting. Glad to hear you like your PII. My Baer has a heavier trigger compared to other 1911s such as Ed Brown and Wilson Combat, but I got used to it eventually.
Thank you, also I feel PII trigger is bit heavy(or sometimes feel grit resistance), but still about 500 rounds... I wish 0.5LBS smoothed.
I'm CZ / Sig fanboi, so want to add these two later this year.
PM7: to compare accuracy with PII side by side
Sig 1911R: Bed side gun replacement, and expecting accuracy > SA loaded

Ed Brown Executive Target CA is also very attractive!
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Old 04-28-2018, 5:54 PM
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Still working
Installed VZ Operator II G10 grips.
Also ordered Wilson Combat springs kit, Dawson fiber front sight.


Alliant PowerPistol is good for Hornady XTP 200, and less Spread than Accurate #7.
Hotter is better for PowerPistol?
Lower Spread is great for long distance.
maybe PowerPistol is not for plated bullet(Xtreme SWC 200).


Xtreme SWC 200 loves No.7, than Alliant PP.


I got 81% hit on 100 yard half Ram! with Zero 185gr + No.7 12.9gr (delivered Thursday, quick trying load)

maybe LB PII is most accurate Semi Auto I have. 2nd is Walther PPQ+Q5, but Les Baer is more fun for steel, it swings and gongs loud.
(Dan Wesson 715 / 15 are my most accurate handgun)
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Old 04-28-2018, 7:20 PM
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Good shooting OP. I'm just getting acquainted with my Baer Custom Carry
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Old 04-28-2018, 7:55 PM
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Nice shooting
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Old 04-28-2018, 7:55 PM
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Wonder how the Baer shoots with factory ammo. Have you done any comparison to stuff like PMC, Blazer Brass, Federal American Eagle, Winchester White Box, or any others?
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Old 04-28-2018, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeeds View Post
Wonder how the Baer shoots with factory ammo. Have you done any comparison to stuff like PMC, Blazer Brass, Federal American Eagle, Winchester White Box, or any others?
I tested two Federal + 1 Fiocchi,
https://i.imgur.com/P2HZUAb.jpg

Federal AE45SUP1($21/50) 1.1" / 17 Yard = 6.2MOA@17
Fiocchi 45A($14/50) 1.6" / 17 Yard = 9.3MOA@17
Federal American Eagle 230 Value Pack ($24/100) 2.0/17 = 11.6MOA@17

Baer Official ammo should be... expensive. Remington Sabre, $25/25 ?! (MidwayUSA)
"Test fired with Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok ammo and Remington Sabre 230 grain H.P. ammo and guaranteed to shoot 21/2" groups at 50 yards."

From their document, 1911 S.R.P
https://lesbaer.com/images/LES_BAER_2016.pdf

Last edited by bmk20398; 04-28-2018 at 8:47 PM..
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Old 04-28-2018, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
LB PII Nosler 185 JHP / Accurate No.7 12.5gr
110yd Torso 6/7
100yd Ram 7/7
100yd Half Ram 13/21=64% Hold-over 7 inch from center of steel

CZ 75 Tactical Sport 9mm, casual shooting to compare
Hornady XTP 90 / LongShot 6.8
100yd Half Ram 15/20=75%
Hold-over 1.5 inch from center of steel.


Serious question on long range handgun shooting:

Doesn’t the front sight pretty much cover the target at 100 yds? How do you estimate 7” and 1.5” holdovers?

I’ve never shot my handguns that far.....great shooting!

.
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Last edited by Erion929; 04-28-2018 at 9:13 PM..
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Old 04-28-2018, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
Serious question on long range handgun shooting:

Doesn’t the front sight pretty much cover the target at 100 yds? How do you estimate 7” and 1.5” holdovers?

I’ve never shot my handguns that far.....great shooting!

.
Here is sample image, S&W 617 (22LR) vs 629 (180gr 44Mag)


I wrote
"22LR: I'm aiming chain, looking Ram's head from sight's gap. drop is about 6-7 inches."
1.5" hold over is simple, I place ram body's 1/4 height, over front sight.

Long range shooting you have to think these confusing factor
  • Bullet Velocity spread causes high-low error, distance^2
  • Windage is lateral accelaration, 10mph causes 5 inch
  • Sonic Barrier effect (for lighter bullets)
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Old 04-28-2018, 9:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
Serious question on long range handgun shooting:

Doesn’t the front sight pretty much cover the target at 100 yds? How do you estimate 7” and 1.5” holdovers?

I’ve never shot my handguns that far.....great shooting!

.
My habit is to keep the target on top of the front sight, 6 o'clock hold, and raise the FS well above the top of the rear sight notch. I have a few pistols with a line halfway, 3/4 way down the front sight blade for longer range shooting. I can do pretty well at 100 yds on clay pigeons. Not as difficult as it may seem. Of course 45 ACP would be more challenging than 9mm, 357, etc.
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Old 04-28-2018, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
Here is sample image, S&W 617 (22LR) vs 629 (180gr 44Mag)


I wrote
"22LR: I'm aiming chain, looking Ram's head from sight's gap. drop is about 6-7 inches."
1.5" hold over is simple, I place ram body's 1/4 height, over front sight.

Long range shooting you have to think these confusing factor
  • Bullet Velocity spread causes high-low error, distance^2
  • Windage is lateral accelaration, 10mph causes 5 inch
  • Sonic Barrier effect (for lighter bullets)


Thanks for explaining your technique....guess your hands are steadier than mine, lol!

I’ll have to try it.

.
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Old 04-28-2018, 9:57 PM
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Erion929 Erion929 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
My habit is to keep the target on top of the front sight, 6 o'clock hold, and raise the FS well above the top of the rear sight notch. I have a few pistols with a line halfway, 3/4 way down the front sight blade for longer range shooting. I can do pretty well at 100 yds on clay pigeons. Not as difficult as it may seem. Of course 45 ACP would be more challenging than 9mm, 357, etc.

Interesting, too....didn’t think of that. I’ll have to see what works for me next time. Thanks!

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Old 04-29-2018, 8:02 AM
stevec223 stevec223 is offline
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If you are looking for Remington golden sabres,,,, CDNN.com has the best prices around ,,, free shipping on 20 boxes now ... sgammo is more but close to it...
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Old 05-06-2018, 4:49 PM
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I tested CFE Pistol and, PowerPistol (2) more in detail

CFE Pistol... is bit too slow. Nosler has good accuracy with CFE Pistol


PowerPistol (Hot, Alliant Max is 9.5/185) is very nice, I love fast and accurate


Cheat Sheet for 45ACP 185 1245/1275
I will try 100 Yards next week.
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Old 05-06-2018, 7:25 PM
Nick Adams Nick Adams is offline
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Mighty fine shooting...
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