Los Angeles County Good Cause?

[USMCiscom77]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and trying to do my research on CCW Applications. I currently live and work in Los Angeles County. I own two businesses in a beach city town. Thousands of tourist , foreign and domestic, come in to my business on a weekly basis. Meth Heads, drug dealers, gang bangers, and homeless camp out there on a daily/nightly basis. I even open up my business with people sleeping in the threshold of my doorway. It looks like tent city at night. I'm well off and wealthy you can say. Money is going in and out on a daily basis. I have a family of five in my home including a 3 month old baby girl. I live a mile away from my businesses. I drive a high end car.

Is this just cause enough to want/need a CCW in the county of Los Angeles?

I appreciate anyone's opinion and/or guidance on what I should do to keep my family and I safe on a daily basis.

[john67elco]

As you will see there is really no chance. I thought I heard 2 CCW's given out last year total? Sorry but as all the other threads posted here many times your chances are about .01%. Im sorry. I think there is something like 200 something CCWs out there in LA total and like 40 are judges. I hope it changes for LA folks its pretty bad and where a ton of crime is. They literally would rather investigate a woman's death/rape then arm her and deal with her shooting some low life.

[skyscraper]

What ^^^ said. There are lawsuits pending though that will sort this out. Applying with LA will most certainly result in a denial at this point. But stay tuned because hopefully this will change soon.

[TurboS600]

I think John may be thinking of SF, not LA. Yes, SF only has between 2 and 5 outstanding valid LTCs at any given time and most of those are judges with death threats.

However, LA (SO) has about 300-400 valid LTCs issued in a county of ~10 million residents (LAPD <50 in a city of ~4 million ). That puts the percentage of LTC holders at <1/100 of 1%. I think you could attribute this to a few factors and not just that they refuse to issue for all but the most desparate, high-risk citizens (which is probably not too far from the truth).

But I think that there are other factors involved that are not taken into account. First, they don't get very many applicants. They have the reputation of being very stingy with the permits so people are just put off by the process. They feel that they are wasting their resources even trying so why even bother. There may be some people out there who wish they could get one, actually need one, and would probably get issued if they applied but they just think it is too far out of reach.

Second, many of the applicants they do get are a bunch of 2A yahoos who use "personal protection", "self-defense", or "because the second amendment says I can" for their good cause. That just isn't going to get it done in LA. You have to at least TRY to make an argument for Good Cause. Let them know you want it, you need it, and you will not just shrink into the background and go away when they glare at you when you complete and turn-in the application.

Yes, LA will be a tough row to hoe and more than likely will result in a denial. But if you are willing to invest the time and a nominal amount of cash then you at least have a chance. I have read this a thousand times and written it a few hundred myself....

"The one sure way of ensuring that you are never issued a LTC in California is to not apply."

All they can say is "no." They won't laugh you out of the office. Nor will they put you on a terrorist watch list. Nor will they send a letter to all of your friends and family members telling them that you applied and were denied. They won't publicize the denial on your Facebook page. They don't put your face on a website of denied applicants. They just say no. And even when they do say no that isn't the end of the line. You don't have to just take the denial and fade away into obscurity. You can appeal all the way to the chief if you like and there is no further expenses involved in the appeal process, just your time.

So, if you don't shoot, you can't score. It will cost you less than $300 in total to get through the process and a few hours of your time. Is it worth it to know for sure if you can or cannot carry legally in CA?

[HighLander51]

You don't need a CCW to carry inside your place of business. Your first step is still to apply. Your other option is to move to San Bernardino or Riverside county, wait a year, then apply. You will certainly get a permit, but now you have the commute. The third option should be obvious but not for internet discussion.

[USMCiscom77]

Originally Posted by TurboS600

I think John may be thinking of SF, not LA. Yes, SF only has between 2 and 5 outstanding valid LTCs at any given time and most of those are judges with death threats.

However, LA (SO) has about 300-400 valid LTCs issued in a county of ~10 million residents (LAPD <50 in a city of ~4 million ). That puts the percentage of LTC holders at <1/100 of 1%. I think you could attribute this to a few factors and not just that they refuse to issue for all but the most desparate, high-risk citizens (which is probably not too far from the truth).

But I think that there are other factors involved that are not taken into account. First, they don't get very many applicants. They have the reputation of being very stingy with the permits so people are just put off by the process. They feel that they are wasting their resources even trying so why even bother. There may be some people out there who wish they could get one, actually need one, and would probably get issued if they applied but they just think it is too far out of reach.

Second, many of the applicants they do get are a bunch of 2A yahoos who use "personal protection", "self-defense", or "because the second amendment says I can" for their good cause. That just isn't going to get it done in LA. You have to at least TRY to make an argument for Good Cause. Let them know you want it, you need it, and you will not just shrink into the background and go away when they glare at you when you complete and turn-in the application.

Yes, LA will be a tough row to hoe and more than likely will result in a denial. But if you are willing to invest the time and a nominal amount of cash then you at least have a chance. I have read this a thousand times and written it a few hundred myself....

"The one sure way of ensuring that you are never issued a LTC in California is to not apply."

All they can say is "no." They won't laugh you out of the office. Nor will they put you on a terrorist watch list. Nor will they send a letter to all of your friends and family members telling them that you applied and were denied. They won't publicize the denial on your Facebook page. They don't put your face on a website of denied applicants. They just say no. And even when they do say no that isn't the end of the line. You don't have to just take the denial and fade away into obscurity. You can appeal all the way to the chief if you like and there is no further expenses involved in the appeal process, just your time.

So, if you don't shoot, you can't score. It will cost you less than $300 in total to get through the process and a few hours of your time. Is it worth it to know for sure if you can or cannot carry legally in CA?

I appreciate the response. Your right, I can sit here all day talking about it but if I don't act I won't get anywhere. I have further fuel for my case, the recent Downey Shooting of a family own buisness that led to his home and his family members became victim. I could easily put myself in this position of happenstance.

[TurboS600]

Originally Posted by USMCiscom77

I appreciate the response. Your right, I can sit here all day talking about it but if I don't act I won't get anywhere. I have further fuel for my case, the recent Downey Shooting of a family own buisness that led to his home and his family members became victim. I could easily put myself in this position of happenstance.

I like this response. I keep hearing about all the naysayers and pessimists bemoaning the fact that they cannot get a permit when they live in SD, LA, or SF county. However, how would you know that you can't unless you try?

I don't know if john or sky are from LAC or not but I can say with some confidence that they have never applied for their LTC in LA. Just give it a shot, keep it real on the application, follow through, and keep us posted. There ARE LTCs in LA city and county. You should make it your goal to at least TRY to be one of them.

Now Git'r done.

[Kid Stanislaus]

The only good cause that passes muster in LA county is "I'm a famous person with a bundle of cash to give the sheriff when he runs for re-election."

[lawaia]

I'm not from LA County, nor do I know squat about the process there. And this is probably the case for 95% of the people that will respond to your thread.

However, I can tell you this: When I applied in Riverside, I was told by MANY people to not waste my time. I sent my GC to people "in the know" to review and make suggestions. They also told me that I would not be approved. This was when Riverside was still not issuing many permits. I applied anyway, and was approved.

Your specific situation may be one that will get you approved. You will not know until you put in the effort. No one here can honestly tell you differently. It will likely be a tough road, but may be one worth travelling for you.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by lawaia

I'm not from LA County, nor do I know squat about the process there. And this is probably the case for 95% of the people that will respond to your thread.

However, I can tell you this: When I applied in Riverside, I was told by MANY people to not waste my time. I sent my GC to people "in the know" to review and make suggestions. They also told me that I would not be approved. This was when Riverside was still not issuing many permits. I applied anyway, and was approved.

Your specific situation may be one that will get you approved. You will not know until you put in the effort. No one here can honestly tell you differently. It will likely be a tough road, but may be one worth travelling for you.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

LA county WILL NOT issue permits. That's the bottom line. You live in a county that will and is far different than LA county.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by TurboS600

I like this response. I keep hearing about all the naysayers and pessimists bemoaning the fact that they cannot get a permit when they live in SD, LA, or SF county. However, how would you know that you can't unless you try?

I don't know if john or sky are from LAC or not but I can say with some confidence that they have never applied for their LTC in LA. Just give it a shot, keep it real on the application, follow through, and keep us posted. There ARE LTCs in LA city and county. You should make it your goal to at least TRY to be one of them.

Now Git'r done.

Do you have a license issued by la county or city?
I'll wait for wildhawker or another person working the front lines to explain the reality of the LTC issuance in LA county.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Do you have a license issued by la county or city?
I'll wait for wildhawker or another person working the front lines to explain the reality of the LTC issuance in LA county.

He's right, there are LTCs issued in LA.

As of September 2011, LASO had issued 181, LAPD 13.

For 7.4 million adults.

(El Monte had issued 13 on its own for around 75,000 eligible adults - at 0.17/1000, that's almost twice the issuance of the county as a whole! If you live there, might actually be worth applying to the city. Might.)

One absolutely will never get an LTC if one never applies. But in LA, it's pretty close to never if you do apply.

[lyvnxxl]

I don't live in LA County any more, but I do know what not to put on your application. Do not put you need a gun for self defense. You will be denied. If you carry loads of cash, your cell phone has spotty service and response time from a 911 call will be extensive, and you keep lots of cash at your home from your business is usually your best bet. At least in the county where I live, that worked for me. I have never applied in LA county, but you need to try at least. If they say no, go up the ladder, file a lawsuit, and pay a gun friendly defense lawyer to make your case. Who knows, you may open doors for all the other good moral citizens in LA who need and want one.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by lyvnxxl

If they say no, go up the ladder, file a lawsuit, and pay a gun friendly defense lawyer to make your case. Who knows, you may open doors for all the other good moral citizens in LA who need and want one.

Please don't do this.

Folks had that reaction in San Diego and bollixed things up.

[skyscraper]

Guy and gals, Here is all the information you need to know about permits in LA county:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352761

Also see the following quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker

San Carlos, CA (March 9, 2012) – Continuing its Carry License Sunshine and Compliance Initiative, The Calguns Foundation (CGF) has filed a lawsuit today in Los Angeles Superior Court against Los Angeles Sheriff Leroy “Lee” Baca, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, and Los Angeles County. The case, entitled Jennifer Lu, et al. v. County of Los Angeles, et al., challenges the Sheriff’s ban on accepting and processing applications for carry licenses submitted by city residents.

The Calguns Foundation is joined in the lawsuit, by three individual plaintiffs.

“Sheriff Baca made the unfortunate decision to repeat historical failure,” noted CGF Chairman Gene Hoffman. “Apparently, the Sheriff and County do not feel bound to follow the precedent they set when the California Court of Appeals ruled against them in 1976. We look forward to refreshing their memory.”

In the case of Salute v. Pitchess, the Court held that “[i]t is the duty of the sheriff to make . . . an investigation and determination, on an individual basis, on every application” for a handgun carry license. Then-Los Angeles Sheriff Peter Pitchess had “a fixed policy of not granting applications . . . … except in a limited number of cases.”

California requires that people who desire to carry a handgun for self defense be licensed by the sheriff of the county in which they reside, or, at the applicants’ option, they can apply to their city’s chief of police. However, sheriffs cannot require applicants to first apply to and be denied by a city’s chief of police as a prerequisite to application.

“The State of California very intentionally established a standardized carry license framework: if you’re a sheriff, you have a duty to administer the carry license program for all residents of your county,” clarified Brandon Combs, an officer of CGF and director of the Carry License Initiative. “Sheriff Baca’s intent in enforcing these unlawful regulations is quite clear: make it as difficult as possible for law-abiding residents of Los Angeles County to defend their lives and those of their families. Not only does he treat some deserving applicants differently than others, he uses the rejections by cities’ chiefs of police - that his policy requires - as evidence against the applicants when they apply to him.”

“Jennifer Lu and the other plaintiffs have every reason to desire a handgun carry license, not the least of which is that it is their fundamental right under the Constitution as Federal courts in both West Virginia and Maryland ruled earlier this week,” said Jason Davis, attorney for the plaintiffs. “Sheriff Baca is circumventing state and constitutional law, and we’re confident that this case will bear that out.”

A copy of the complaint and case filings can be downloaded at http://bit.ly/lu_v_baca.

[drjdashby]

It's pretty impossible to say what the holders of the cards in LA County consider a good cause. I am a physician working in California State Prisons with higher level felons. We are there to take care and monitor the Inmate-Patient's chronic medical conditions, acute illnesses or injuries and treat any trauma they may encounter. But the big issue is narcotics. Inmates by and large are extremely smart and know the system and how to work it. They will memorize signs and symptoms to complain about and go as far as to cause self inflected injuries just to get pain meds. I watched a video of one inmate-Patient jump off his top bunk head first into the toilet across his cell to validate his neck pain. And also you have the majority of them who come off the streets addicted and going through withdrawals. So it is a constant battle to treat them for legitimate pain issues but not to continue their addictions. And once you let them know where you stand the games begin. Verbal confrontations in the clinic, verbal and physical threats to you and your family. They make shanks out of tightly folded silver foil with shoe laces for handles and force one of the younger inmates to go for you in your clinic on the yard. With a computer anyone can find anyone's home address, phone numbers. All have friends and family in the streets to help them. So once the calls started coming to my unlisted home phone and threatening my wife I applied for a CCW Permit. My drive was from Pasadena to Kern every day. So in my humble opinion I had a good cause. But the card keepers didn't see it that way. Next time I will try making a donation first to the Bacha machine.

[adrenaline]

If I were in your position, I'd look into LUCC (locked unloaded concealed carry). To me, its better than nothing.

I sure hope you LA County folks get your rights sooner than later.

[rero360]

$20,000 laying around to donate to reelection funds might work as good cause