So, does anyone carry at church?

[Trout_fear_me]

Before 9-11-2001 a large scale terrorist attack on US soil didn't exist as a pattern either. Plenty of warnings before 9/11 and plenty of warnings now.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Originally Posted by Trout_fear_me

And yes, church shootings do happen in the US:

2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings

Pastor slain in Ill. church shooting

Fatal Shooting Outside Brooklyn Church (started inside church)

Hartford pastor shot three times

Not sure who's disputing that. Not me. My point was that Islamists aren't the main threat at this time. Your links:

1. Shooter was a homeschooled as a Christian, later became rabidly anti-Christian, claimed he was abused by parents, exhibited symptoms consistent with schizophrenia and paranoia. Not an Islamist.

2. Another mentally ill shooter, possibly as a result of neurological damage caused by Lyme disease, possibly with some other etiology. Not an Islamist.

3. Longstanding dispute motive. Islamic extremism not a factor.

4. Still under investigation. Drive-by. Possibly connected to another shooting in the same area. No determination of motive yet.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Originally Posted by Trout_fear_me

Before 9-11-2001 a large scale terrorist attack on US soil didn't exist as a pattern either. Plenty of warnings before 9/11 and plenty of warnings now.

Those warnings that were summarized in a report called "Al Qaeda Determined to Strike in US" (or something similar to that) that the Bush administration ignored, yeah, I'm aware of that. What specific warnings exist now that haven't existed for the 14 years since 9/11, fourteen years in which no such pattern has manifested here?

Anyway, as I said, I support carrying in church if an LTCer determines that's the best decision for him/her.

[ffemt]

Definitely. Plus, I do feel a little classy like James Bond in my Sunday best (looks alone.. not my well worn G19).

[Trout_fear_me]

Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy

Not sure who's disputing that. Not me. My point was that Islamists aren't the main threat at this time. Your links:

1. Shooter was a homeschooled as a Christian, later became rabidly anti-Christian, claimed he was abused by parents, exhibited symptoms consistent with schizophrenia and paranoia. Not an Islamist.

2. Another mentally ill shooter, possibly as a result of neurological damage caused by Lyme disease, possibly with some other etiology. Not an Islamist.

3. Longstanding dispute motive. Islamic extremism not a factor.

4. Still under investigation. Drive-by. Possibly connected to another shooting in the same area. No determination of motive yet.

Sorry that was not directed to you, but to some other poster who said church shootings don't happen. Yes, you are correct on the perps.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Cool.

[rromeo]

I carry in church. That isn't because Iil think something will happen there, it's because I don't know that something won't. I don't know when I'll need a gun, but if I ever do, I'd lime to have it with me.

[Mithrandir13]

better to have it and not need it!!....

but we all know this!

[the-right-way]

My church has just put a sign up about no guns. SOmething to do with safe sanctuary apparently. I am sure no one who planned to do any harm would pay any attention to that sign.

[steadyrock]

Originally Posted by the-right-way

My church has just put a sign up about no guns. SOmething to do with safe sanctuary apparently. I am sure no one who planned to do any harm would pay any attention to that sign.

Time to find a new church.

[APeter001]

Probably more likely to be a "fellow Christian" going nutballs in the church and firing at the pastor because life, but in any case the ushers at my church are mostly LEO or former LEO and carry concealed. Trust the Lord, but lock 'n load.

[C5A]

I always carry in Church, not that I expect a problem but just in case. Our former Pastor also carried in Church. I carry everywhere unless it is not legal.

[Mithrandir13]

Originally Posted by C5A

I always carry in Church, not that I expect a problem but just in case. Our former Pastor also carried in Church. I carry everywhere unless it is not legal.

'XACTLY!!!!!


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[r90503]

Yes :-)

[radicalray]

Well Now this is back on top. Sad hope they get shooter soon Rest In Peace prayers to the families

[SonofWWIIDI]

Hope they catch the bastard, right after he falls down some stairs...or trips and shoots himself.



Perhaps I'll inquire about getting permission from the lead pastors. Seems like now would be the time to get an affirmative reply.

[steadyrock]

2008, 2012, 2015. Yes, I carry in church and always will. Anybody who has said that church shootings don't happen here was foolish when they said it.

I hope the 9 families with permanent holes in them and the church now without a pastor find some way to move forward and to choose joy in tragedy.

[JDW67]

Originally Posted by radicalray

Well Now this is back on top. Sad hope they get shooter soon Rest In Peace prayers to the families

They got him...looks like a sociopath.

RIP to those 9 souls

[Doheny]

I just heard an FBI profiler say there were 176 incidents of substantial violence in churches last year, 74 of them resulted in death.

[Mithrandir13]

I just informed the lead Pastor at our church that I CCW....

He passed me on to the Pastor in charge of Safety & Security....

He recommended the book "Evil Invades Sanctuary" by Carl Chinn

http://www.amazon.com/Evil-Invades-S.../dp/0615657885


There is a brief section regarding the Security Team of the Church and dealing with those who are unknown CCW'ers who might contribute/interfere.....



Mr. Chinn strongly advocates that a church have an armed and trained security team....

.

[steadyrock]

South Carolina explicitly bans CCW in religious sanctuaries without express approval from an "appropriate official." They were sitting ducks by law.

http://www.usacarry.com/south_caroli...formation.html

[the-right-way]

Originally Posted by steadyrock

South Carolina explicitly bans CCW in religious sanctuaries without express approval from an "appropriate official." They were sitting ducks by law.

http://www.usacarry.com/south_caroli...formation.html

I was not aware of that. Bet most of the lefties would not think of that. I also wonder if anyone killed had a permit and left their gun in the car.

[C5A]

Originally Posted by steadyrock

South Carolina explicitly bans CCW in religious sanctuaries without express approval from an "appropriate official." They were sitting ducks by law.

http://www.usacarry.com/south_caroli...formation.html

The Pastor that was killed was an active anti gun person according to the news report.

[ranger6x6]

Originally Posted by ranger6x6

This is a stupid thread. If you conceal carry, who gives a **** where you carry as long as the public doesn't know you are carrying. It's the point of CCW isn't it?
Personally, it's really sad if you have to carry in a church.

Well, I'm totally wrong!

[steadyrock]

Originally Posted by ranger6x6

Well, I'm totally wrong!

[grantar2]

Unfortunately Pastors and Rabbi's face a tremendous number of threats. The more high profile the more they get. Most groups that are antagonistic against a religion or denomination are verbose, but not violent. There are however enough acts of violence, to warrant caution.

The truth is the people killed would tell you that they were safe until God called them home, the hour is appointed. We can see the power of their faith in the forgiveness shown already by the families.

The people who died would tell you they were cut down by Satan, the power of darkness they were challenging in prayer.

The LORDs disciples were armed (We know Peter was) that those coming to arrest him came out armed indicates a fear of resistance.

We know that there are groups and individuals within the Atheist, Islamist, LBGT and Christian Communities who are willing to do harm, and have done so in the past. Collectively we can't condemn those communities as most of their members have a view, and dialogue or demagogue on those views, but do not act out or condone violence. In a country of 300 + million people it only takes .001% to keep news channels busy.

The heart of man is evil who can know it.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Roof is a white supremacist terrorist motivated by racial hatred. Personal beliefs in Satan notwithstanding (I don't believe such an entity exists, because there's a simpler explanation for destructive human behavior than a supernatural being, but to each his own), this was not an attack motivated by anti-Christian sentiment.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by JDW67

I'm not a church person, but my nephew is getting confirmed this weekend at a Catholic church. So, for some reason, I'm a little torn about whether I should carry or not. I'm not religious, but I do believe in Christ and it seems odd to carry in the house of the Lord.

Dunno, for those who regularly go to church, do you carry?

Perhaps you are looking at this wrong. Did it ever occur to you that one of the reasons God may have put you on this earth was to help protect his flock when and where you could?

I do not carry at church. But that's only because I live in San Diego and we can't get LTC permits here. If I had one, I would carry and particularly in the well known gun free zones like a church. If there ever was a place to be sure you were carrying, it would be in the gun free zones (where legal).

[Doheny]

Originally Posted by ranger6x6

Well, I'm totally wrong!

A good man can admit when he's wrong.

[scottw6srf]

Always. We also have a protection team. I always cary

Sent from my UFO mother ship

[grantar2]

Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy

Roof is a white supremacist terrorist motivated by racial hatred. Personal beliefs in Satan notwithstanding (I don't believe such an entity exists, because there's a simpler explanation for destructive human behavior than a supernatural being, but to each his own), this was not an attack motivated by anti-Christian sentiment.

Well it might not have been anti-Christian, although his views on churches remain to be seen, it was clearly evident two things were at play. Evil seeks a place that is gun free.

A study of spiritual warfare (which wouldn't interest a person who doesn't believe in either God or Satan) would illuminate that it was not necessary for the actor to be a believer in either.

What I see is a group of brothers and sisters who showed love and caring to a stranger, who welcomed him, and were slain in the act of showing grace and love. I see this group has having an impact in spiritual places, but that through their sacrifice their cause will be furthered. And we see their families showing the same love, grace and mercy.

Still there would have been nothing ungodly if there had been one or more among them to rise to their defense.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Originally Posted by grantar2

What I see is a group of brothers and sisters who showed love and caring to a stranger, who welcomed him, and were slain in the act of showing grace and love. I see this group has having an impact in spiritual places, but that through their sacrifice their cause will be furthered. And we see their families showing the same love, grace and mercy.



Still there would have been nothing ungodly if there had been one or more among them to rise to their defense.

I find no disagreement at all with this. I resist, however, attempts (I haven't heard you do this, as far as I can recall) to characterize this primarily or even significantly as an anti-Christian act, when it was quite clearly motivated by hatred fueled by white supremacy/racism.

[grantar2]

Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy

I find no disagreement at all with this. I resist, however, attempts (I haven't heard you do this, as far as I can recall) to characterize this primarily or even significantly as an anti-Christian act, when it was quite clearly motivated by hatred fueled by white supremacy/racism.

Agree clearly racist. The church wasn't a first choice, it was just a well known gun free zone, since the pastor/senators view on guns in church undoubtedly made his congregation more visible.

I think it first has to be seen as issue of Racism. The current coverage of events in Ferguson, Baltimore, and other locals has created an appearance to some of a race war, and war on police and the establishment. Even some of the comments by LeSean Mcoy would lead you to believe player transaction of the Philadelphia Eagles are race driven. None of these are true.

We need examples of cooperation as we enter a hot summer. We need a dialogue about relegating the symbols of the confederacy to history. They really don't have a place in current government.

We need a mental health system that doesn't oppress as has happened in the past, meets ACLU concerns but functions for those lost souls who don't have hope.

[the-right-way]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

Perhaps you are looking at this wrong. Did it ever occur to you that one of the reasons God may have put you on this earth was to help protect his flock when and where you could?

I do not carry at church. But that's only because I live in San Diego and we can't get LTC permits here. If I had one, I would carry and particularly in the well known gun free zones like a church. If there ever was a place to be sure you were carrying, it would be in the gun free zones (where legal).

He works in mysterious ways. He also said that if you carry a money pouch then carry a sword. They did not have glocks back then so Ill take the glock now.

Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy

Roof is a white supremacist terrorist motivated by racial hatred. Personal beliefs in Satan notwithstanding (I don't believe such an entity exists, because there's a simpler explanation for destructive human behavior than a supernatural being, but to each his own), this was not an attack motivated by anti-Christian sentiment.

This was nazism and white supremacy. I view it as an attack on all christians, but that is not what the attack was from.

[Mithrandir13]

the Douche-Nozzle was arrested for meth use and something else... it was illegal for his father to have given him a gun.....

this event reminds me of the part of the movie American Sniper when Chris's dad tells'em about sheep, wolves and sheepdogs.....
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They had no sheepdogs!!


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[mobbology]

I have to admit, I don't carry everyday and I should. But when going to church, no I will not caught without it.

[Tommy C]

I believe it is a good idea to carry in church. You just don't know about folks these days. Thinking that bad things don't happen to good people is naive at best. Lotsa horrific deeds go down in this world because a confused & dangerous person believes they are fulfilling "God's will".

[Drrdlks]

Yes and..... Yes

[sawman]

CCW is like warring seat belts I have been driving for 30 plus years and have never needed a seat belt but I use one every time I drive . So I carry everywhere that it is legal to

[sunrisefordrene]

God helps those who help themselves..A d I help myself by carrying my g26 @ 4:30 position...Most Sundays....