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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: FAVORITE FIREARMS TRAINING OUTFITS IN SOCAL
Academi/U.S. Training Center/Blackwater 8 4.85%
Alias Training & Security Services 18 10.91%
Costa Ludus (Chris Costa) 19 11.52%
FOG (Falcon Operations Group) 46 27.88%
5 Arrows Tactical Training (Darren Harlow) 11 6.67%
ITTS (International Tactical Training Seminars) 24 14.55%
PTS (Phoenix Tactical Solutions) 18 10.91%
TAC-1 (Tactical Advanced Combat) 16 9.70%
TASC (The Academy of Saint Crispian / Stan Lee) 49 29.70%
TFTT (Tactical Firearms Training Team) 13 7.88%
TriCon (Trident Concepts – Jeff Gonzales) 3 1.82%
WOTG (Way of the Gun – Frank Proctor) 13 7.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:40 AM
Sofatactical Sofatactical is offline
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Was the Vogel class last weekend? How did these two people even get into the course?
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  #82  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:48 AM
LEO-NIDAS LEO-NIDAS is offline
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Default TASC Feb 8 Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
I purposely stayed to help watch over the new shooters, all of whom were nice people but unaware of any safety protocols on a live fire range. Stan did his best to watch over everyone but the simple fact is that in low light you can't just look down the line and see what everyone is doing/not doing and with a 9 to 1 student ratio in low light /darkenss i felt Stan andnhis students need another set of experienced eyes. Additionally, I was wearing level III BALCS armor and very aware of what to look for having successfully taken several low light / night handgun classes and run and RO's combat pistol matches for over 15 years at LESA and WEGC.

- I specifically positioned myself next to the engineering student from USC who did. Ot own a gun and had never fired a gun beforemthat night. He was clearly intimidated by the weapon and was clearly having difficulty with his loaner gun and holster. I gave him a lot of 1 on 1 attention that Stan could not as he was watching the other new shooters.

Had I left the class and someone been hurt I would have felt somewhat responsible as well.
First off let me start by saying that I've taken a couple of classes with Stan (day and night). I was also there during the Feb 8 class and at NO POINT did I feel my life was in danger. He is very thorough addressing the various safety protocols and spent ample time covering the basics from first aid to proper pistol handling. Stan came highly recommended by other more experienced users.

He is very knowledgeable, approachable and most importantly patient. Let me also add that he is dedicated to promoting good technique and safe practices. I went from someone who was intimidated to handle a pistol to now owning my own and following all the safe practices he emphasized during his training. I plan to continue training with Stan as he has a lot of experience and I know I can learn a lot from him. He has been instrumental in helping both on and off the range and I'm very thankful for that.

Now let me paint a clearer picture of the events on Feb 8. Ronin2 is complaining about safety, lack of vests, lack of light, too many people, etc. Ronin2 is also quick to add that without him some of the more inexperienced students would have suffered and that thanks to HIM we were able to see in the dark. Ronin2 was a beacon of light that dark confusing night. Without his car headlights and infinite wisdom, all the newbies would have been lost. LOL!! Sure...keep telling yourself that.

Here's the reality: Ronin2 made it a point to go out of his way and tell everyone how experience and knowledgeable he was. He kept interrupting the flow of the class by adding his two cents at the end of every topic covered by Stan. He kept going around wanting to show people how to "properly" do things even when Stan was present. This dude loves grandstanding and after a while it was obvious that he was not interested in helping but in telling you how great he was (showing off). It was really annoying considering no one paid him to explain anything. And although this may come as a shocker to him....nobody cared! BTW Ronin2, trying to hijack the class from Stan and playing instructor for the day was not very polite or professional on your part.

I get that you are a "training addict" but next time take and advanced class instead of showing off to a bunch of beginners. I was not interested in your comments and interruptions. This whole thing about you staying there to end to "promote safety" is a bunch of nonsense. There wasn't anything you did or anything that you supposedly prevented (I was watching you). Quit your whining and your grandstanding. The only positive thing you did was to publicly exclude yourself from future TASC classes. Thank you! Now I can continue my TASC training with confidence knowing you won't be there to disrupt the class.

Last edited by LEO-NIDAS; 02-21-2014 at 10:20 AM..
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  #83  
Old 02-20-2014, 9:00 AM
Sofatactical Sofatactical is offline
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Hmmm Ronin's idea of what went on in the class seems to be in direct conflict with everyone else who was there and posted here.
It seems strange that such a self described highly trained individual would attend a beginners level class, after stating his advanced skill set.

However it was very noble of him and his Level III body armor to stick around such an inherently dangerous environment and ensure nobody shot themselves or got lost in the dark.

This guy should get a medal for his selfless sacrifice in such a dangerous situation.
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  #84  
Old 02-20-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofatactical View Post
Was the Vogel class last weekend? How did these two people even get into the course?
Yes it was last weekend. The course was put together by Hank on Calguns. I'm not sure if these were Calguns members, but the thread about the course did detail you should be at sharpshooter or higher level. I classify as sharpshooter, and I was in the midpack of the class. 1/3 of the guys were experts and some higher.

Actually, I think what happened is that it wasn't communicated to Bob that these were more veteran shooters. I am pretty sure that Bob adjusted the class according to the level of the shooters in the class. To his credit, he adapted. I think Bob thought going into this that it was an entry level class (as my certificate indicated "Basic IDPA instruction" - it was NOT basic stuff).

Last edited by Kodemonkey; 02-20-2014 at 10:14 AM..
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  #85  
Old 02-20-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEO-NIDAS View Post
Here's the reality: Stephen made it a point to go out of his way and tell everyone how experience and knowledgeable he was. He kept interrupting the flow of the class by adding his two cents at the end of every topic covered by Stan. He kept going around wanting to show people how to "properly" do things even when Stan was present. This dude loves grandstanding
At the other end of the spectrum, Stan and his cadre of instructors are a group of people with unquestionable and solid firearms experience and have a totally down to earth attitude.
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  #86  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack's Smirking Revenge View Post
FTA-I have taken pistol, shotgun, and carbine courses from FTA. All of the classes were billed as "Advanced" courses but in reality they were intermediate at best.
I took the 1-day FTA Advanced Pistol - Low Light & Night Shooting class on March 18, 2012 with you and it was indeed intermediate at best. Out of some 25 students only a handful were advanced and more importantly I'd say about 15 were not even intermediate. The night portion was way too short.

Taking an intermediate class does not mean you now proceed to the advanced classes.
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  #87  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:19 AM
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In the subject of Low-light courses.

I have to say, I really enjoyed taking TASC's Low light Course and learned a lot from Stan on how to efficiently use my gear. There was a good 4-5 hours of low light in the month on February that's for sure.

One thing I discovered was how to load my weapon system during low light conditions. With one hand holding a flashlight and the other your pistol. You realize you needed a third hand to load the magazine ...LOL !

I tend to gravitate towards low light classes now. I want to take more...

I made a short video of TASC's low light course. that night..

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  #88  
Old 02-21-2014, 5:50 PM
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I was Stan's first student and I have taken ALL of Stan's courses multiple times including his 14 hour SULE course and I have never felt in fear of my life or anyone else's life whether it was in the light or in pitch darkness as we were marching through the mountains for SULE. I'm very brave though, I have never worn armor to any of his classes. So, I might be an exception
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  #89  
Old 02-24-2014, 11:08 PM
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+1 for TASC. Took a handful of courses with Stan. great instruction and never felt unsafe because of the training environment. Check your egos at the door when it comes to firearms training!
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  #90  
Old 03-01-2014, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEO-NIDAS View Post
First off let me start by saying that I've taken a couple of classes with Stan (day and night). I was also there during the Feb 8 class and at NO POINT did I feel my life was in danger. He is very thorough addressing the various safety protocols and spent ample time covering the basics from first aid to proper pistol handling. Stan came highly recommended by other more experienced users.

He is very knowledgeable, approachable and most importantly patient. Let me also add that he is dedicated to promoting good technique and safe practices. I went from someone who was intimidated to handle a pistol to now owning my own and following all the safe practices he emphasized during his training. I plan to continue training with Stan as he has a lot of experience and I know I can learn a lot from him. He has been instrumental in helping both on and off the range and I'm very thankful for that.

Now let me paint a clearer picture of the events on Feb 8. Ronin2 is complaining about safety, lack of vests, lack of light, too many people, etc. Ronin2 is also quick to add that without him some of the more inexperienced students would have suffered and that thanks to HIM we were able to see in the dark. Ronin2 was a beacon of light that dark confusing night. Without his car headlights and infinite wisdom, all the newbies would have been lost. LOL!! Sure...keep telling yourself that.

Here's the reality: Ronin2 made it a point to go out of his way and tell everyone how experience and knowledgeable he was. He kept interrupting the flow of the class by adding his two cents at the end of every topic covered by Stan. He kept going around wanting to show people how to "properly" do things even when Stan was present. This dude loves grandstanding and after a while it was obvious that he was not interested in helping but in telling you how great he was (showing off). It was really annoying considering no one paid him to explain anything. And although this may come as a shocker to him....nobody cared! BTW Ronin2, trying to hijack the class from Stan and playing instructor for the day was not very polite or professional on your part.

I get that you are a "training addict" but next time take and advanced class instead of showing off to a bunch of beginners. I was not interested in your comments and interruptions. This whole thing about you staying there to end to "promote safety" is a bunch of nonsense. There wasn't anything you did or anything that you supposedly prevented (I was watching you). Quit your whining and your grandstanding. The only positive thing you did was to publicly exclude yourself from future TASC classes. Thank you! Now I can continue my TASC training with confidence knowing you won't be there to disrupt the class.
Your post sounds Spot On!

I've taken 8 classes with Stan so far. 2 of them "Low Light".
I've never felt threatened by him or any of my fellow classmates.

All students train at their own pace. Stan won't force you to do anything you don't feel comfortable doing.

3 words to describe Stan: Knowledgeable, Patient, & Humble.


Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
...
I was the only person there, instructor included, wearing body armor which for a number of reasons both class specific and in principle, should always be worn IMHO.


Just an FYI, I dont think Stan wears body armor to his classes. Just a regular Chest Rig to hold all his gear.

Last edited by akjunkie; 03-02-2014 at 3:30 PM..
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  #91  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:02 PM
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  #92  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:21 PM
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I find it interesting to note that Ronin2 deemed it to fit to *somewhat* alter his initial statement about TASC on this thread.

Personally, I don't really see what Ronin2 was trying to achieve by doing so since 'cut-n-paste' technology and "Quote" mechanism has been invented a while back and implemented successfully in the many user responses to his initial opinion.

So in the interest of fair play to the parties involved, here is the original opinion rendered by Ronin2 that started all this.

ORIGINAL Version 1.0:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
I have just taken a beginning pistol class with one of the more popular schools listed in a poll in this forum. I took that beginning class even though I could have easily "tested/qualified" for one of the schools more advanced offerings out the gate because I wanted to see/evaluate the instructors teaching style and approach to the basics and safety. The basics ARE the basics and there is very little variation on that theme. Additionally, safety protocols are PARAMOUNT in a beginning class when the instructor/school should be evaluating each student first and foremost on safety concepts adhered to. I have to admit, sadly, that I was VERY disappointed both in the safety protocols, teaching style and dissemination of information. I was the only person there, instructor included, wearing body armor which for a number of reasons both class specific and in principle, should always be worn IMHO.

This instructor promotes his military background (one of the reasons I choose this school) extensively and it is now clear to me that just because someone has, in the words of Col. Jeff Cooper, "seen the elephant" (been deployed to the sandbox/maybe seen combat) and survived, in no way means he can effectively "teach" that skill set to others.

While I will not identify this school discussed above publicly, in the interests of full disclosure, I have trained extensively with Max Joseph and his cadre at Tactical Firearms Training Team/ Direct Action Group.
And here is Ronin2 altered opinion:

The AFTER, VERSION 2.0:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
I have just taken a beginning pistol class with one of the more popular schools listed in a poll in this forum. I took that beginning class even though I could have easily "tested/qualified" for one of the schools more advanced offerings out the gate because I wanted to see/evaluate the instructors teaching style and approach to the basics and safety. The basics ARE the basics and there is very little variation on that theme. Additionally, safety protocols are PARAMOUNT in a beginning class when the instructor/school should be evaluating each student first and foremost on safety concepts adhered to. I have to admit I was suprised that the evening beginning pistol class, with several students who had never fired a weapon before, was held in darkness under the head lights of two vehicles. I feel that it was an difficult environment for the instructor to observe student weapons manipulation and mantain control and safety during live fire on the shooting line. I would not take a class like this in the darkness again. \

I admit I do not know if the intructor had a lighted range reserved and was changed at the last minute by the range staff or not.
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  #93  
Old 03-17-2014, 10:13 AM
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You forgot Active defense shooters school asdschool.com. One of the best training outfits available.
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  #94  
Old 03-17-2014, 2:40 PM
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Ronin, do you wear body armor at matches as well?
Seems like there are alot more people doing alot more running around with guns at matches, making the probability of friendly fire much higher than a group of people standing on a firing line.
Seriously these competitions are potentially very deadly and level IIIa body armor should be required.
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Last edited by Sofatactical; 03-17-2014 at 2:43 PM..
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  #95  
Old 03-17-2014, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofatactical View Post
Ronin, do you wear body armor at matches as well?
Seems like there are alot more people doing alot more running around with guns at matches, making the probability of friendly fire much higher than a group of people standing on a firing line.
Seriously these competitions are potentially very deadly and level IIIa body armor should be required.
I thought this was over but since some of you want to keep this going...armor sure as hell is a prudent precaution in a class of first time shooters several of whom were given equipment and guns for the FIRST TIME, in the DARK under the illumination of two sets of car headlights and then reducing the available illumination to just one set of car headlights while they are all back off the line without visual confirmation of cleared weapons, manipulating magazines and gear during reloading periods. Do you REALLY think that is a SAFE and correct environment for one instructor to watch over all the actions and weapons manipulations of his students??? If so then you are condoning putting first time students into essentially low light classes....

At a match where you can see what the ONE person shooting is doing with their weapon under the direct control of a RO and new shooters are identified and given close assistance...the risk of an errant round is significantly lower than the situation described above. Go figure huh? Besides, I can always hide behind another competitor

Last edited by Ronin2; 03-17-2014 at 3:41 PM..
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  #96  
Old 03-17-2014, 3:37 PM
Sofatactical Sofatactical is offline
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You are describing the known knowns, while I am referring to known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
Let's not pretend there aren't guys at matches doing all kinds of dumb things.
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  #97  
Old 03-17-2014, 5:11 PM
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When I train with Russian Special Forces I always wear body armor. Watch for the ND.

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Last edited by ramzar; 03-17-2014 at 5:17 PM..
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  #98  
Old 04-24-2014, 2:11 PM
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BIG FAN OF TFTT
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  #99  
Old 05-02-2014, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
When I train with Russian Special Forces I always wear body armor. Watch for the ND.

I don't think that's a ND, because he intentionally put his finger on the trigger just prior to the discharge. And he discharged again in the following drill as well.
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  #100  
Old 05-18-2014, 9:59 PM
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I haven't taken a TFTT class since '04, (when Uncle Sam was paying for all my training) but I'd take one today if Max is still involved.


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  #101  
Old 05-19-2014, 7:32 AM
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I have taken 5 classes with Falcon Ops and I am going to keep going for more. You guys should check them out
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  #102  
Old 05-20-2014, 7:32 AM
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Any of these do long range courses? Like a 1-day
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  #103  
Old 05-20-2014, 8:06 AM
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Falcon does, email them to find out when the next one is
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