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  #1  
Old 11-09-2018, 4:29 PM
SmokeTheClay SmokeTheClay is offline
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Default Gun Free zones and off duty cops carrying?

Hi

Are off duty police officers allowed to carry in CA mandates gun free zones? I heard there were 6 off duty officers at the Thousand Oaks shooting but none had their weapon.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...gun-free-zone/

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2018, 4:32 PM
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Guns and alcohol don't mix.

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  #3  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:13 PM
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Designated sheepdog/driver - OK!
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post
Designated sheepdog/driver - OK!
Who has a designated driver anymore now that Uber is a thing? Bartenders can be armed (even without a CCW permit) if the owner of the bar is okay with it and as long as they don't drink on the job.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by elpaisa1 View Post
Guns and alcohol don't mix.

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The two have never hurt me. Handle your alcohol consumption responsibly and the defensive firearm in the waistband shouldn’t be a problem for most.
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
The two have never hurt me. Handle your alcohol consumption responsibly and the defensive firearm in the waistband shouldn’t be a problem for most.
Ask that FBI agent that was break dancing in Colorado.

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  #7  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by elpaisa1 View Post
Ask that FBI agent that was break dancing in Colorado.

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1) He couldn't control his alcohol. He was a jackass
2) He was "break dancing." 'nuff said.

Next?
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:18 PM
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I understand some people can’t handle their alcohol, but some people can handle what they drink before drinking

Is it legal or not legal for police to carry in gun free zones like the Thousand Oaks shooting
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
The two have never hurt me. Handle your alcohol consumption responsibly and the defensive firearm in the waistband shouldn’t be a problem for most.
I agree, it’s a decision that must be made by the individual. It also takes discipline to consume responsibly, many simply can’t or don’t want too. By all means they should leave the weapon at home. Myself I know that at the end of the night I will be driving home sober and my firearm will go with me.
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Old 11-09-2018, 9:00 PM
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The point I'm trying to make is why put your self in a situation where you have been drinking and then find yourself having to use deadly force, and you accidentally shoot someone innocent during the course of that use if force. Do you think your alcohol use may come into question? You may be able to handle your liquor just fine Im just giving some food for thought..

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  #11  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
retired police (local and feds) can carry in school zones if they have a permit issued per PC 25650 (see PC 626.9 o 2). The latest LEOSA amendment (pending) would allow active and retired LEOs to carry on private property (that is open to the public). I don't know about state law that allows current active (off duty) LEOs to carry in GFZs.
OP didn’t ask about retired LEOs. OP asked about off duty LEOs which is addressed in PC 626.9(l).

The answer would be, yes, LEOs can carry in gun free zones.

You still dodged everyone else’s queries in the other thread, BTW. Just a reminder.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2018, 3:58 PM
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When did bar's become GFZ's? Not that I go to bar's anymore at my age. Drinks are cheaper at home and I can watch whatever game I want and be able to hear it.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2018, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
When did bar's become GFZ's? Not that I go to bar's anymore at my age. Drinks are cheaper at home and I can watch whatever game I want and be able to hear it.


For a non LE CCW holders, most issuing agencies say you can’t carry in a business were the primary purpose is to serve alcohol. And some LE agencies have in their policies that you can’t carry in these establishments as well.

But that’s different from a GFZ. A business can post a sign. But GFZ have to come through the legislature. Like a scoop zone.

Just because a business post a GFZ sign, that does not take away the exemption for sworn LE to carry there. Not carrying would be a courtesy.


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  #14  
Old 11-10-2018, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esy View Post
OP didn’t ask about retired LEOs. OP asked about off duty LEOs which is addressed in PC 626.9(l).

The answer would be, yes, LEOs can carry in gun free zones.

You still dodged everyone else’s queries in the other thread, BTW. Just a reminder.
626.9 looks like it refers to school zones not drinking establishments
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Old 11-10-2018, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokeTheClay View Post
626.9 looks like it refers to school zones not drinking establishments
You’re asking about gun free zones. A bar is not a gun free zone.

I don’t know the details about the shooting. I was under the impression that it occurred at a college bar or what not.

If it’s just a bar, a LEO can carry there. Many departments strongly advise against it. I don’t drink much at all and I definitely don’t carry and drink. That’s just me.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2018, 8:02 AM
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Places like some bars or Disneyland don’t allow guns regardless if you’re active LEO. This is their policy, not the law. It’s private property, they have the right to refuse entry if you violate their policy.
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Old 11-11-2018, 8:04 AM
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So I think this quote from the linked article is what is causing a lot of confusion.
"Crime Prevention Research Center’s (CPRC) John R. Lott reported that the Borderline Bar & Grill was a gun-free zone by law. CPRC posted a California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms form explaining that the state of California prohibits the carrying of firearms “in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.”"

Now we all know the media's habit of making things up to suit their purpose, is this one of those times? I looked and have not been able to find any such law on the books in Ca, not that I've been in a bar recently so it wouldn't effect me. I think some are mistaking the decision not to carry by the off duty cops who were at the bar for the show, as law since the media has said so. Probably more like a what was a good decision at the time, knowing that they would be drinking. Anyone who second guesses that decision after the fact is a moron.

I know department policy can restrict carrying and alcohol consumption, and many IA's place restriction's on carrying where alcoholic beverage service is a primary business, but neither of those things make it a GFZ.

Last edited by P5Ret; 11-11-2018 at 9:48 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2018, 8:17 AM
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I don't know of any such law either. Maybe the author was confusing the colleges being a gun free zone and the fact that it was college night.

I've never had an issue going to a bar and having a few drinks while armed. It's up to the individual to know their limits and policies and be responsible enough not to create issues.
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2018, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
1) He couldn't control his alcohol. He was a jackass
2) He was "break dancing." 'nuff said.

Next?
Your an IDIOT if you think you can justify your drinking... Time to disarm you of your CCW...!
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2018, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
pc 626.9 only covers areas "inside the school zone, but not on school grounds". What PC allows LEOs off duty to CCW on gun free zones?
Are you sure you read it? Because I don't think you understood what you were reading.

(5) When the person holds a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, who is carrying that firearm in an area that is not in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, but within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

Looks to me like the above only applies to someone holding an LTC issued under 26150 CPC.

This would grant an exemption to a peace officer listed under any of the subsections of 830 CPC.

(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 7582.1 of the Business and Professions Code.

Not that it matter's because bar's are not GFZ by any law that I can find in Ca.
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Old 11-11-2018, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackyHouston View Post
Your an IDIOT if you think you can justify your drinking... Time to disarm you of your CCW...!
Please take a moment and engage your brain before you begin typing. Lots of us don't have to get hammered to have a good time, and can enjoy a beer over the course of a few hours and be capable of responding to situations while others in the party enjoy themselves more freely.
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Old 11-11-2018, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokeTheClay View Post
I understand some people can’t handle their alcohol, but some people can handle what they drink before drinking

Is it legal or not legal for police to carry in gun free zones like the Thousand Oaks shooting
In California Bars are not GFZones. While it is not illegal for off duty LEO's to carry in a bar or while drinking, it is against many agencies policy's. Same is true with CCW holders. There is no Law making it illegal, but it is a condition you agree to when you obtain a CCW.

Violating your Employer's or IA's policies is not a good idea.

Perhaps this shooting will get Agencies to take a second look at that policy.
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  #23  
Old 11-11-2018, 7:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
PC 629 is called the CAL. gun free school zone act, so anything in this code pertains to school zones, NOT bars. And yes, it is obvious that on duty peace officers may carry their firearms in 99% of locations in the state so you did not inform anything new there. Like many others, you need to read the ENTIRE code section before commenting.
Seriously your going to call me out? So why did you ask this question? You're the one who brought up school zones. Which by the way when referring to firearms are usually GFSZ, probably to distinguish between the few other codified GFZ in the state.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
pc 626.9 only covers areas "inside the school zone, but not on school grounds". What PC allows LEOs off duty to CCW on gun free zones?

It appear's that you didn't read the whole section as you're telling me to do, based on the question.

Also seems like you're answering question's for people and really don't know the answer's, but you do make a good WAG at it. Pretty good at playing victim too when you're called out on your missteps.

So despite your letter from the Sheriff of San Francisco County granting you full peace officer power's, you never bothered to learn that the penal code does not make a distinction between on-duty and off-duty, for 830.1 & 830.2 classification.
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Old 11-11-2018, 7:50 PM
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Time to disarm you of your CCW...!
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2018, 8:13 PM
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Default Off duty

Off duty le can't carry on school grounds unless they get special permission I know le that say they have to leave there gun when they pick up there kids
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 1911david View Post
Off duty le can't carry on school grounds unless they get special permission I know le that say they have to leave there gun when they pick up there kids
That is incorrect.

Quote:
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 7582.1 of the Business and Professions Code.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
pc 626.9 only covers areas "inside the school zone, but not on school grounds". What PC allows LEOs off duty to CCW on gun free zones?
YOU need to read the PC.

Quote:
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 7582.1 of the Business and Professions Code.
I believe that this thread has run its course. Several other, actual CA LEOs have stated correct information.

A Gun Free Zone is a school/school grounds; not a bar. A LEO can carry in a gun free zone as has been clearly stated.

A LEO may carry into a bar, however, it may be against their own, individual department policy.

Last edited by esy; 11-12-2018 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 11-13-2018, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
you are still missing that only ON DUTY LEOs can carry in these places. I ask again, what PC allows OFF duty LEOs to carry in these "gun free zones" or these private property bars that don't allow concealed carry?, you don't have an answer. Also, you have drunk the cool-aid if you think that a "gun free zone" exists because they don't, there are always legal exceptions.
Where in the PC that I, or anyone else, had quoted states on duty? Please show me.

Please stop trying to decipher CA law and stating that you enforced it because clearly you didn’t if you don’t even understand it.

Again, a bar is NOT a gun free zone. Stop referring to it as such. OP clearly did not know a bar is NOT a gun free zone. Stop bringing up schools as you were the first and original person to do such.
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Old 11-13-2018, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
you are still missing that only ON DUTY LEOs can carry in these places. I ask again, what PC allows OFF duty LEOs to carry in these "gun free zones" or these private property bars that don't allow concealed carry?, you don't have an answer. Also, you have drunk the cool-aid if you think that a "gun free zone" exists because they don't, there are always legal exceptions.
Please cite the applicable section indicating only on-duty officers may carry in these locations.
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Old 11-13-2018, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
you are still missing that only ON DUTY LEOs can carry in these places. I ask again, what PC allows OFF duty LEOs to carry in these "gun free zones" or these private property bars that don't allow concealed carry?, you don't have an answer. Also, you have drunk the cool-aid if you think that a "gun free zone" exists because they don't, there are always legal exceptions.
Let's just assume for a moment that your interpretation of the law is accurate, it's a stretch but let's pretend. Does it make sense to you that an off duty LEO can not carry on school grounds, but a retired LEO can?

I sure hope you can explain that, because it certainly makes no sense to me to restrict active off duty LEO's but allow retired LEO's to carry on the school grounds.


Oh and just to clarify it's Kool-aid, not cool-aid.

Last edited by P5Ret; 11-13-2018 at 8:17 PM..
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Old 11-13-2018, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpaisa1 View Post
Guns and alcohol don't mix.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
The two have never hurt me. Handle your alcohol consumption responsibly and the defensive firearm in the waistband shouldn’t be a problem for most.
Testify, TPT!!

I can handle my business just fine. To each, their own.
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  #32  
Old 11-14-2018, 8:56 AM
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Default Gun free zone

Read HR 2513 it has to be authorized For off duty
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Old 11-14-2018, 9:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 1911david View Post
Read HR 2513 it has to be authorized For off duty
Has nothing to do with 626.9 (L) which is existing Ca law. HR 2513 is a proposed amendment to LEOSA, and the federal GFSZ law. As has already been quoted several times there is already exemption's built into CA's GFSZ act.
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Old 11-14-2018, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
your fault is that you expect CA law to be logical. The written law does not lie. Retired LEOS issued CCW per PC 25650 can carry on school property. I'm still waiting for the PC allowing active, off duty to do the same. Tic toc, tic toc.
626.9 PC. The poster before you already showed you. Look at subsection (L). I have quoted it below.

(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 7582.1 of the Business and Professions Code.
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Old 11-14-2018, 8:35 PM
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Please cite the applicable section indicating only on-duty officers may carry in these locations.
Whatevs09...You still didn't answer this question. Feel free to give us more of your expertise.
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Old 11-14-2018, 9:41 PM
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Popcorn please!


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Old 11-14-2018, 9:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post
your fault is that you expect CA law to be logical. The written law does not lie. Retired LEOS issued CCW per PC 25650 can carry on school property. I'm still waiting for the PC allowing active, off duty to do the same. Tic toc, tic toc.
So I'll ask again where in 626.9 does it state that it only applies to on duty, we're waiting because I'm not the first to ask you this same question. I don't think you are able to read and accurately interpret what the section actually says.

Let's see once again you have demonstrated complete lack of understanding of the law. If you had bothered to read 25650 PC you'd have noticed that it applies to retired federal law enforcement.

Retired LEO's do not have a CCW, most are issued an ID by their agency, authorizing carry of concealed weapons under 25905(a) PC.

Maybe it's just time to stop thinking you have the answer's, because honestly you don't. Your inability to read and properly interpret the laws as written, both in this thread and the one concerning LEOSA, tend to lead to one conclusion, I'll let you figure that one out on your own.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:35 PM
esy esy is offline
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Whatevs, TSA is NOT a federal LEO regardless what they may have told you. Stop hiding behind that plastic badge and blue jacket. It’s ok. We won’t judge you. Much.
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Old 11-15-2018, 8:36 PM
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eta34 eta34 is offline
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You really have poor reading comprehension. That is certainly clear. “This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer...”

It does not get more clear than that. The section you quoted applies to out of state and federal officers. Are you really this obtuse?
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Old 11-15-2018, 8:37 PM
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Also, this forum is for current and retired LEO. It is clear you are neither. Please refrain from posting. You are embarassing yourself.
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