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  #1  
Old 01-01-2016, 5:28 AM
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Default citations being issued at spenceville range

fish and game has been showing up at spenceville range, and has been issuing citations to people shooting lead ammo.
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Old 01-01-2016, 5:42 AM
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Is the range on state lands that fall under non lead use? YES
I just checked spenceville wildlife area is non lead to all hunting not certain about shooting targets and only paper and clay pigeons on wildlife areas for targets.

Last edited by edgerly779; 01-01-2016 at 6:47 AM..
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Old 01-01-2016, 6:00 AM
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spenceville is on state land
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Old 01-01-2016, 6:20 AM
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Default AB 711

(b) Except as provided in subdivision (j), and as soon as is practicable as implemented by the commission pursuant to subdivision (i), but by no later than July 1, 2019, nonlead ammunition, as determined by the commission, shall be required when taking all wildlife, including game mammals, game birds, nongame birds, and nongame mammals, with any firearm.

The bill clearly requires non lead for hunting. Under what authority does Fish and Game issue citations at a shooting range?

This could be a big problem for all ranges and target shooters state wide.

Comments welcome.

irh
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Old 01-01-2016, 6:29 AM
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State does not give a rats-*** about lead ammo other then another way of taking out money
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Old 01-01-2016, 6:45 AM
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fYI not a 2016 law.The spenceville range is on dfw wildlife area and as such non lead regs apply.. Read the regs. I could not find if target shooting exempt. Could the citations have been issued for shooting ground squirrels or rabbits/hunting?

Last edited by edgerly779; 01-01-2016 at 6:54 AM..
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhorse1 View Post
(b) Except as provided in subdivision (j), and as soon as is practicable as implemented by the commission pursuant to subdivision (i), but by no later than July 1, 2019, nonlead ammunition, as determined by the commission, shall be required when taking all wildlife, including game mammals, game birds, nongame birds, and nongame mammals, with any firearm.

The bill clearly requires non lead for hunting. Under what authority does Fish and Game issue citations at a shooting range?

This could be a big problem for all ranges and target shooters state wide.

Comments welcome.

irh
Spenceville and the Oroville 'Clay Pits' ranges are administered by the CA Dept of Water Resources, with management assigned to DFW.

I have seen DFW wardens issuing citations at Oroville for 'littering' (people bringing TV's or old water heaters to shoot up), and once a warden was going down the line checking bullet buttons.

There is also a 'DWR Security' rig that drives around, but they don't do anything except take pictures.

That still doesn't explain citations for lead ammo when target shooting, as the law states non-lead only for the 'taking of wildlife'.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:02 AM
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Wow. Thanks for the heads up. I hope something can be worked out.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine mil thrill View Post
fish and game has been showing up at spenceville range, and has been issuing citations to people shooting lead ammo.
No, they haven't. You're either lying, or confused about the facts. What do the citations say on them? What law or regulation is marked?

Citations for litter and shooting TVs and fridges? GOOD.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine mil thrill View Post
fish and game has been showing up at spenceville range, and has been issuing citations to people shooting lead ammo.
Do you know what section is actually being used?
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  #11  
Old 01-01-2016, 7:20 AM
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Interesting, tho I bet the citations are for shooting things other than paper targets, which is a not permitted.

Should someone be interested in finding out if citations for lead ammo for target shooting are being issued, the contact number for information at this location is 916 358 2900.
Another contact that was good in 2007 for this location that I had used was Lt. Kent Harrison, kharrison@dfg.ca.gov or 530 624 8277.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:33 AM
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Default That law is bull **** for one, 2ndlly

Quote:
Originally Posted by nine mil thrill View Post
fish and game has been showing up at spenceville range, and has been issuing citations to people shooting lead ammo.
If you read the damn law (lie) , it only pertains to hunting with lead , you can shoot it at the range .... Tell them to get some integrity and take a hike .... Thats the DFG for you ....I dont give a damn about a law that is based on a straight out lie , if they had integrity they should feel the same way .. Never try to enforce laws that you know are wrong , based on a lie ..., that's not how good people do things
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:35 AM
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Thanks for number. I'll be calling. This needs to be cleared up.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:52 AM
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Sounds like a bunch of BS to me and if one were issued a citation for target shooting with lead ammo, I would hope they would fight it tooth and nail.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:55 AM
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I'm so glad I left CA for NC!
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Old 01-01-2016, 8:36 AM
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The info on the citations should straighten all this out. Hunting/ shooting unlawful targets/ littering?? The range is clearly on the wildlife area.
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Old 01-01-2016, 8:37 AM
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I'm so glad I left CA for NC!
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post

and once a warden was going down the line checking bullet buttons.

There is also a 'DWR Security' rig that drives around, but they don't do anything except take pictures.
If the two issues above are not enough reason for me to avoid public ranges, I don't know what are. Lord help us, but I fear it is far too late.
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine mil thrill View Post
fish and game has been showing up at spenceville range, and has been issuing citations to people shooting lead ammo.
I see what you did there. Creating panic so you can get the place for yourself.
We shot there last week with no issue. I did see a game warden on the road in but he never got out of his truck and he left. If this were true they would post it at the gate or they would be there everyday and it would spread like wildfire. I'm calling bulls$&@ on this one.

Last edited by Bullets&Whitewalls; 01-01-2016 at 12:03 PM..
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2016, 12:05 PM
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I think this is a bit dubious at best.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:10 PM
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I'm curious how the Warden would prove a person was using lead ammo while target shooting. Easier to prove if a person were hunting, they simply remove the bullet from the dead animal/bird. Removing a bullet from a dirt berm with any certainty that it belongs to the shooter would be impossible without a ballistics check.
Still there is the annoyance of fighting the citation in court.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:13 PM
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why do you mock people who choose freedom?
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:14 PM
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The same way they test while hunting. They have a test kit that can be done on site or they send a round in for testing. Right now no one knows what really occured. We have the op's unsubstantiated statement . We know the range is on a state wildlife area where non lead ammo for hunting is mandated. the rest is supposition. I don't agree with the lead ban, but as it is the law i am stuck with it.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teetsjones View Post
I'm curious how the Warden would prove a person was using lead ammo while target shooting. Easier to prove if a person were hunting, they simply remove the bullet from the dead animal/bird. Removing a bullet from a dirt berm with any certainty that it belongs to the shooter would be impossible without a ballistics check.
Still there is the annoyance of fighting the citation in court.
Can't they just inspect the ammo in your mag?
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mike415stone View Post
State does not give a rats-*** about lead ammo other then another way of taking out money
And there it is, it's just another tax....
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:23 PM
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If a law can be misapplied for a political agenda, California is the place that will surely try it. Fight any such citation and shove it back up their keesters.
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Old 01-01-2016, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
No, they haven't. You're either lying, or confused about the facts. What do the citations say on them? What law or regulation is marked?

Citations for litter and shooting TVs and fridges? GOOD.
I'll say again. OP is either purposefully lying for some reason, or sorely misinformed, ignorant, and confused...and spreading what is commonly known on this website as FUD.
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Old 01-01-2016, 8:21 PM
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OP still has no proof, and no one has come forward with one of these citations, right?

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Old 01-01-2016, 9:36 PM
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I went to Spencehell in 1986 to shoot a newly acquired .22LR rifle. I watched two idiots get into a verbal dispute about calling a cease fire. They both pointed weapons at each other while on the firing line with myself and other shooters being in their line of fire. I left and never went back.
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:18 PM
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If this non lead rule applies to Ground squirrels , this state will be infested in a year. They aren't worth shooting with non lead ammo
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by enrique L View Post
If this non lead rule applies to Ground squirrels , this state will be infested in a year. They aren't worth shooting with non lead ammo
For city people(SF, Sac, etc.) who come up with this crap, they'd rather not have you killing squirrels(pest control) in the first place.
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:32 PM
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Annnnnnd where did the op go?
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:52 PM
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Op go because he's the one that got citation for bringing junks/littering.
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I'll say again. OP is either purposefully lying for some reason, or sorely misinformed, ignorant, and confused...and spreading what is commonly known on this website as FUD.
The term appeared as far back as the 1920s.[4][5] A similar formulation "doubts fears and uncertainties" reaches back to 1965.[6] By 1975, the term was already appearing abbreviated as FUD in marketing and sales contexts:[7]
FUD was first defined with its specific current meaning by Gene Amdahl the same year, 1975, after he left IBM to found his own company, Amdahl Corp.: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products."[8] The term has also been attributed to veteran Morgan Stanley computer analyst Ulrich Weil.
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Old 01-02-2016, 4:06 AM
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I posted this as a heads up. my boss, lives by the range. when I shoot, I am always there an hour before sunrise so I get my favorite bench, so no, I am not posting to scare people away. i, did not get cited. make of it what you will, call total bull**** if you want.......but as previously posted, i am not a liar.
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Old 01-02-2016, 4:18 AM
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It would stop a lot of the rhetoric and namecalling if we knew the details of the citation. You made a statement with no details just like now. What has your boss to do with this? Did he witness this? Are there any regs posted at range as to ammo type and target types? Next time you are there takes pics of any signage to show what is allowed please and post on here in this thread..
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Old 01-02-2016, 4:24 AM
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I bought the tin 22 lr and it is crap. I have found a lot of non lead 6.8 and .223 bullets reasonable priced over last couple years so i load mostly with that.
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Old 01-02-2016, 5:00 AM
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edgerly, yes my boss witnessed it.
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Old 01-02-2016, 5:16 AM
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The globals are warming.Don't forget also to piss on a tree to conserve water and when at home do like the liberals don't flush except after three loads and most of all the only acceptable lead is that in your pencil unless you've gone trans.
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Old 01-02-2016, 5:23 AM
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I would also like more information. I shoot at Oroville often, which is also within a wildlife area and managed by DFW.

There are signs there stating 'paper or clay targets only', but nothing about non-lead ammunition.
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