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  #1041  
Old 04-12-2019, 4:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.patriot1776 View Post
If you participated in one way or another you are exempt from the stay including further sales read the stay again notice the language used exempts anyone who participated by manufacturing making buying selling all of those people are now exempt from the stay. Anyone participated by purchasing magazines manufacturing magazines selling magazines making magazines finding magazines is now Exempted from the stay going forward until there is a new order. Just because most out-of-state and in-state Ffls are no longer selling you magazines does not necessarily mean that that waspart of the order. That is just someones interpretation of what was meant by the order the language of the order does not continue to Bar sales manufacturer ownership importation or any other caveat of the law. The stay continues to be in effect for anyone who participated during Freedom week until otherwise ordered to do so!
While I would love for your reading to be the case, every lawyer that I am aware of thus far does not interpret the way you do.
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  #1042  
Old 04-12-2019, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.patriot1776 View Post
If you participated in one way or another you are exempt from the stay including further sales read the stay again notice the language used exempts anyone who participated by manufacturing making buying selling all of those people are now exempt from the stay. Anyone participated by purchasing magazines manufacturing magazines selling magazines making magazines finding magazines is now Exempted from the stay going forward until there is a new order. Just because most out-of-state and in-state Ffls are no longer selling you magazines does not necessarily mean that that waspart of the order. That is just someones interpretation of what was meant by the order the language of the order does not continue to Bar sales manufacturer ownership importation or any other caveat of the law. The stay continues to be in effect for anyone who participated during Freedom week until otherwise ordered to do so!
Wrong.
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  #1043  
Old 04-12-2019, 9:20 AM
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Are people keeping documentation on their purchases? From my interpretation of everything, private sales of magazines were legal during this period so you could of acquired magazines from Craigslist?
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  #1044  
Old 04-12-2019, 9:23 AM
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Originally Posted by doubledeuce View Post
Are people keeping documentation on their purchases? From my interpretation of everything, private sales of magazines were legal during this period so you could of acquired magazines from Craigslist?
I believe you are correct. Buy from your neighbor? Sure. But IANAL, etc.
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  #1045  
Old 04-12-2019, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by doubledeuce View Post
Are people keeping documentation on their purchases? From my interpretation of everything, private sales of magazines were legal during this period so you could of acquired magazines from Craigslist?
The government would have to prove beyond doubt that you purchased your mags outside of the window. No need for documentation.
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  #1046  
Old 04-12-2019, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
The government would have to prove beyond doubt that you purchased your mags outside of the window. No need for documentation.
That is how it is supposed to work, but isn't how it actually always works. Keeping proof is a good idea due to that.
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  #1047  
Old 04-12-2019, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
That is how it is supposed to work, but isn't how it actually always works. Keeping proof is a good idea due to that.
Fight the power!!! Or keep your receipts. That's what I am doing.
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  #1048  
Old 04-12-2019, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
Fight the power!!! Or keep your receipts. That's what I am doing.
It is better to do both. There is no reason to not keep your receipts.
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  #1049  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:17 AM
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There is no legal reason to document when you purchased your magazines. Either before this ruling or after it.

Magazines aren't serialized. A piece of paper will never match a piece of metal/plastic. So what's the point.

Then you run in the issue of not having documentation for ALL your magazines. Then what?

"Well these are owned 'legally' but these are 'really legal' because I have a receipt that shows when I purchased them, but I have some of the same exact mags that I previously legally owned but those are it, these are the ones I have invoices for.

And then these I bought as parts kits that I assembled during freedom week but I don't have invoices for all of them because I bought them 5 years ago, or was it 6? But yeah, they are exactly the same as some that I previously legally owned and don't have receipts for and also the same as some that I have receipts for.

So yeah officer, what was your question again?"
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  #1050  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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Having it doesn't mean you have to present it. It is far better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
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  #1051  
Old 04-12-2019, 3:09 PM
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Speaking of receipts, I received an email this morning:

GunBroker.com Credit Request Alert - Illegal Purchase

Dear beedee,

freightsale, the seller of the item below, has stated the Item Won is illegal for you to own and has requested a credit for the final value fees. Please review the seller's explanation and if you disagree or feel the explanation is incorrect please notify GunBroker.com by clicking the following link:

https://www.gunbroker.com/CreditRequ...ute/xxxxxxxxxx

-- BEGIN SELLER EXPLANATION--

We are unable to ship this item to California, where the buyer is located.
--END SELLER EXPLANATION--

Attempting to purchase an illegal item can result in suspension of your account.

You purchased the following item at GunBroker.com: xxxxxx


I disputed it and stated that it was purchased within the legal window last week (purchased on April 4th). We'll see what happens.
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  #1052  
Old 04-12-2019, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by beedee View Post
Speaking of receipts, I received an email this morning:

GunBroker.com Credit Request Alert - Illegal Purchase

Dear beedee,

freightsale, the seller of the item below, has stated the Item Won is illegal for you to own and has requested a credit for the final value fees. Please review the seller's explanation and if you disagree or feel the explanation is incorrect please notify GunBroker.com by clicking the following link:

https://www.gunbroker.com/CreditRequ...ute/xxxxxxxxxx

-- BEGIN SELLER EXPLANATION--

We are unable to ship this item to California, where the buyer is located.
--END SELLER EXPLANATION--

Attempting to purchase an illegal item can result in suspension of your account.

You purchased the following item at GunBroker.com: xxxxxx


I disputed it and stated that it was purchased within the legal window last week (purchased on April 4th). We'll see what happens.
So he wants you to pay his fees even though he is wrong? That's dumb.
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  #1053  
Old 04-12-2019, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
So he wants you to pay his fees even though he is wrong? That's dumb.
Yup, 100% agreed. I was very thorough explaining "freedom week" in my dispute.
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  #1054  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaHoTex View Post
While I would love for your reading to be the case, every lawyer that I am aware of thus far does not interpret the way you do.
I think the issue is, if your going to say something from a position of authority, CRPA or the lawyers, what you say has to be simple, and hard to misinterpret.


The permanent injunction was stayed in part.
The preliminary injunction is still in effect.
The permanent injunction is still in effect for the other part.

A narrowly tailored stay for a judgment against an unconstitutional blanket ban.

Anything else would be hypocritical.
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  #1055  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
No problem, yet.

That was the original temporary injunction.

The 'partial' in 'partial stay' is that the subsection you quote continues to be unenforceable because that injunction is retained.
Permanent injunction was stayed in part, the preliminary injunction was not stayed at all.
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  #1056  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:49 AM
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Fox 5 SanDiego

"The stay does not apply to anyone who purchased, sold, or imported magazines between last week’s decision and 5 p.m. Friday."

USA Herald

"On Friday, Benitez ordered that no person in California is allowed to buy, import, manufacture or sell large capacity magazines starting 5:00 p.m. Those who already acquired extended magazines since his initial ruling last week can keep them while Becerra moves forward with the state’s appeal."

One of these is wrong, my money is on the Sith.

Daily mail

"Halted sales after week, but those who bought bullets can keep them for now"
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  #1057  
Old 04-14-2019, 4:51 PM
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People and businesses were Exempted from the stay not magazines
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  #1058  
Old 04-14-2019, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Wrong.

People and businesses were Exempted from the stay not magazines so I'm right. Magazines or in adamant objects were not protected from the stay people and businesses were. And people and businesses going forward are exempt from the stay you are wrong! Wrong wrong wrong. People and businesses continue to be protected from sale possession manufacturing importation.
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  #1059  
Old 04-14-2019, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.patriot1776 View Post
People and businesses were Exempted from the stay not magazines so I'm right. Magazines or in adamant objects were not protected from the stay people and businesses were. And people and businesses going forward are exempt from the stay you are wrong! Wrong wrong wrong. People and businesses continue to be protected from sale possession manufacturing importation.
"In adamant"

Priceless.

I assume you're trolling by the way. To anyone who doesn't think he's trolling and thinks they can keep importing more even after the stay: follow where that advice leads at your peril. His last sentence is not clear, but I know that argument has been made and assume that's what he's getting at.
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  #1060  
Old 04-14-2019, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.patriot1776 View Post
People and businesses were Exempted from the stay not magazines so I'm right. Magazines or in adamant objects were not protected from the stay people and businesses were. And people and businesses going forward are exempt from the stay you are wrong! Wrong wrong wrong. People and businesses continue to be protected from sale possession manufacturing importation.
Wrong.
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  #1061  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:11 PM
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To the letter of the law we had freedom week and that was grandfathered, everything else is not. Since the law was never enforceable to begin with because LEO can't determine when anything was acquired, it's essentially absurd. The whole point of the 2016 law was to cover the loophole and ban possession period, and was a direct result of LEO complaining to lawmakers that they didn't know what the hell to do for the past 20 years.

Benitez's stuff further throws the system into complete disarray. There was the outside chance that LEO could find someone with a Pmag and know that it was not in existence in 1999. Before the recent rulings, of course. Now the status of anything is totally up in the air because no one can prove when anything was acquired AND anything modern that is suspect could have been acquired during freedom week.

Could they go CSI and prove a mag was made after freedom week ended? Sure. But anything made before that is impossible to say.

It's all MOOT, because they can confiscate on a "nuisance". But prosecution? How would they ever prove anything? Keep mouths shut and the status quo will prevail, which is compete and total ambiguity.
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  #1062  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:12 PM
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There's one thing that was def an issue for people who moved to CA after 2001. Which is a lot of us.
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  #1063  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.patriot1776 View Post
People and businesses were Exempted from the stay not magazines so I'm right. Magazines or in adamant objects were not protected from the stay people and businesses were. And people and businesses going forward are exempt from the stay you are wrong! Wrong wrong wrong. People and businesses continue to be protected from sale possession manufacturing importation.


This is a dangerous form of stupid. Call CRPA or ask Chuck Michel on his social media page.


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  #1064  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.patriot1776 View Post
People and businesses were Exempted from the stay not magazines so I'm right. Magazines or in adamant objects were not protected from the stay people and businesses were. And people and businesses going forward are exempt from the stay you are wrong! Wrong wrong wrong. People and businesses continue to be protected from sale possession manufacturing importation.


https://crpa.org/news/blogs/crpa-ale...-ordered-stay/


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  #1065  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
There's one thing that was def an issue for people who moved to CA after 2001. Which is a lot of us.
Yeah that was definitely an issue before freedom week. Now it means nothing.

Another important point is not to say you acquired anything during freedom week. You can if you want (a lot of people even saved receipts) but the important thing is not to volunteer any information that is unnecessary. The first question will always be "when did you acquire this?".

My view would be if they are on top of you and asking questions, they are going to confiscate on a nuisance. Why would I assume that? Because they can. Getting into a long conversation with details isn't going to help.

This is of course from the school of thought of minimizing any risk.
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  #1066  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
but the important thing is not to volunteer any information that is unnecessary.
Lol tell that to all the 'show us what you got' threads.
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  #1067  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Lol tell that to all the 'show us what you got' threads.
I'd say show me your warrant.
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  #1068  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:46 PM
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"It is possible I acquired this during freedom week. If not, it is possible I assembled it during freedom week. If not, it is possible I acquired it before 2000, and/or one or more (or all) of the components have been replaced by new ones. If not, I assembled or acquired it long enough ago that the statute of limitations have long run out; go pound sand."

This isn't hard, people.
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  #1069  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
"It is possible I acquired this during freedom week. If not, it is possible I assembled it during freedom week. If not, it is possible I acquired it before 2000, and/or one or more (or all) of the components have been replaced by new ones. If not, I assembled or acquired it long enough ago that the statute of limitations have long run out; go pound sand."

This isn't hard, people.
I would just scream "MAGA"
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Old 04-14-2019, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
"It is possible I acquired this during freedom week. If not, it is possible I assembled it during freedom week. If not, it is possible I acquired it before 2000, and/or one or more (or all) of the components have been replaced by new ones. If not, I assembled or acquired it long enough ago that the statute of limitations have long run out; go pound sand."

This isn't hard, people.
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I would just scream "MAGA"

These are both terrible things to actually do if confronted by LE.

Last edited by shaocaholica; 04-14-2019 at 8:51 PM..
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  #1071  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
These are both terrible things to actually do if confronted my LE.
If confronted by LE, you stfu and get a lawyer.

If you get a lawyer, that's what you tell your lawyer to tell the prosecutor.
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  #1072  
Old 04-14-2019, 9:15 PM
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You could always pull a Bill Belichick " I misinterpreted the rules"
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  #1073  
Old 04-15-2019, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
If confronted by LE, you stfu and get a lawyer.

If you get a lawyer, that's what you tell your lawyer to tell the prosecutor.
This is where I see wisdom.

However, I'd ask the officer to provide documentation of the confiscation and hope/ask that someone around would make a video.

Debating with the officer or providing your defense in advance will not be helpful and may be harmful.
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  #1074  
Old 04-15-2019, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faterikcartman View Post
"In adamant"

Priceless.

I assume you're trolling by the way. To anyone who doesn't think he's trolling and thinks they can keep importing more even after the stay: follow where that advice leads at your peril. His last sentence is not clear, but I know that argument has been made and assume that's what he's getting at.
"Both parties indicate inbriefing that persons and business entities in California may have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds since the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and in reliance on the injunction. Indeed, it is the reason that the Attorney General seeks urgent relief in the form of a stay pending appeal. Both parties suggest that it is appropriate to fashion protection for these law-abiding persons. "

"IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code §32310 (a) and (b)shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019." Dated: April 4, 2019

When the state enacted the law they didn't explicitly grandfather in the LCM's, we assumed that.

When the federal judge issued the stay in part, reimposing the law, he did explicitly exempt those persons "who have".
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Old 04-20-2019, 4:34 PM
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Fellow Calgunners, this past million mag march event inspired me. I finally joined the NRA. I went for the el cheapo one year membership but extended for another for $25.
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  #1076  
Old 04-21-2019, 3:16 PM
Harry Ono Harry Ono is offline
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Originally Posted by doubledeuce View Post
Are people keeping documentation on their purchases? From my interpretation of everything, private sales of magazines were legal during this period so you could of acquired magazines from Craigslist?
Legal lesson. A contract can be written or oral. For over $300 transaction a written contract is required. There is nothing requiring you must have documentation. You might have purchased it at a gun show during the window and no documentation was made. All still legal.
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  #1077  
Old 04-21-2019, 4:26 PM
tracy9676 tracy9676 is offline
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Originally Posted by Captain Insano View Post
Fellow Calgunners, this past million mag march event inspired me. I finally joined the NRA. I went for the el cheapo one year membership but extended for another for $25.
Finally after years of being a member of the NRA, feel like it was worth it.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
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  #1078  
Old 04-23-2019, 7:32 PM
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faterikcartman faterikcartman is offline
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
"Both parties indicate inbriefing that persons and business entities in California may have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds since the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and in reliance on the injunction. Indeed, it is the reason that the Attorney General seeks urgent relief in the form of a stay pending appeal. Both parties suggest that it is appropriate to fashion protection for these law-abiding persons. "

"IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code §32310 (a) and (b)shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019." Dated: April 4, 2019

When the state enacted the law they didn't explicitly grandfather in the LCM's, we assumed that.

When the federal judge issued the stay in part, reimposing the law, he did explicitly exempt those persons "who have".
Good luck with that.

Be sure to post the vendors that worked with and what you bought.
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  #1079  
Old 04-23-2019, 8:15 PM
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tenemae tenemae is offline
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I can't believe you guys are still arguing over this. Chuck Michel and CRPA have already told us exactly what the ruling and stay mean. If you don't want to take it from (arguably) the best 2A litigation team in CA, then you're a special kind of stupid
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Old 04-23-2019, 8:38 PM
shaocaholica shaocaholica is offline
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No no no. I can't be crazy. It's everyone else thats gone crazy. *Maniacal laugh*
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