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  #201  
Old 04-08-2015, 5:45 PM
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Saw this on one of the original trainers' facebook:

"If you had your interview prior to 3/25 and were told to take your training and to get your live scan done I will get you your CCW. I have a work around for my students only. 100% issuance success. Every one of them is getting their CCWs. No, I'm not going public with the work around. I'm just helping my students. No court case is going to happen because of this."
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  #202  
Old 04-08-2015, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by soSuper View Post
Saw this on one of the original trainers' facebook:

"If you had your interview prior to 3/25 and were told to take your training and to get your live scan done I will get you your CCW. I have a work around for my students only. 100% issuance success. Every one of them is getting their CCWs. No, I'm not going public with the work around. I'm just helping my students. No court case is going to happen because of this."
Who?
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  #203  
Old 04-08-2015, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by soSuper View Post
Saw this on one of the original trainers' facebook:

"If you had your interview prior to 3/25 and were told to take your training and to get your live scan done I will get you your CCW. I have a work around for my students only. 100% issuance success. Every one of them is getting their CCWs. No, I'm not going public with the work around. I'm just helping my students. No court case is going to happen because of this."
The facebook I'm assuming you're referring to Self-Defense Firearms Training by Greg Block. I'm glad to say that I'm one of his students and kept in touch with him regarding the situation.
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  #204  
Old 04-08-2015, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Albs View Post
The facebook I'm assuming you're referring to Self-Defense Firearms Training by Greg Block. I'm glad to say that I'm one of his students and kept in touch with him regarding the situation.
Thanks..ditto as well.
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  #205  
Old 04-08-2015, 6:47 PM
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Thurs.4/2/15 my buddy was contacted ,and told he needed to add a GC statement do to Peruta case.

Mon.4/6/ around 8pm he email a GC statement to the investigator.

Tues.4/7 investigator emailed back at about 10am saying he will be moving him forward.

4/8 today around 11am my buddy gets a call for him to come in and pick up permit on Fri. the 10.

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  #206  
Old 04-08-2015, 6:57 PM
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Checked out said instructor FB page. Those are great claims he's making if they're true.
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  #207  
Old 04-08-2015, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Thurs.4/2/15 my buddy was contacted ,and told he needed to add a GC statement do to Peruta case.

Mon.4/6/ around 8pm he email a GC statement to the investigator.

Tues.4/7 investigator emailed back at about 10am saying he will be moving him forward.

4/8 today around 11am my buddy gets a call for him to come in and pick up permit on Fri. the 10.

Did your buddy receive any type of approval notification prior to 4/7?
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  #208  
Old 04-08-2015, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by soSuper View Post
Saw this on one of the original trainers' facebook:

"If you had your interview prior to 3/25 and were told to take your training and to get your live scan done I will get you your CCW. I have a work around for my students only. 100% issuance success. Every one of them is getting their CCWs. No, I'm not going public with the work around. I'm just helping my students. No court case is going to happen because of this."
Considering some of the other things I'm seeing on his facebook, I'd take what he says with a healthy dose of skepticism followed by independent research.

Supposing he did know a way to ensure guaranteed issuance of a CCW permit for everyone, including those who would otherwise be disqualified via background check, I am disappointed that he isn't disclosing it. He wants money more than he wants a free state, and that's OK--nothing morally wrong with that. But, I'm not happy about it.
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  #209  
Old 04-08-2015, 7:58 PM
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I think all of us can articulate a good cause. Well need to see over the next few weeks as we analyze the GC shared by those who are getting permits post en banc.

I haven't seen numbers for OCSD area of responsibility, but I know that West Hollywood crime is up close to 400% over the last 12 months. Crime in LASD area of responsibility is up my guess is in response to the jail population reduction efforts. Seems to be more sophisticated as well. I won't be surprised if OCSD has figured out what Detroit Police Chief James Craig who came out of the LA system learned, just the addition of CCWs reduces crime.

I expect everyone who posts here is capable of expressing good cause. Well I certainly believe its my right to carry, I also am willing when I renew to state good cause. The security and peace of mind I have being able to carry is worth the effort. It means much more in practice than it did in theory.
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  #210  
Old 04-08-2015, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soSuper View Post
Saw this on one of the original trainers' facebook:

"If you had your interview prior to 3/25 and were told to take your training and to get your live scan done I will get you your CCW. I have a work around for my students only. 100% issuance success. Every one of them is getting their CCWs. No, I'm not going public with the work around. I'm just helping my students. No court case is going to happen because of this."
Don't listen to his bull. He doesn't have any "work around" that's not available to anyone else.
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  #211  
Old 04-08-2015, 8:09 PM
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Default OCSD CCW Website Page Change

This is a cross-post from another thread. We really should consolidate a couple of the threads:

The page was changed today. It sounds sounds like you had to have your permit in hand or at least pick-up scheduled prior to March 26 to have been approved under SD. Bold is what added, Strike is what was removed/changed:

Quote:
Prospective applicants are encouraged to attend their scheduled appointments and submit their CCW applications for consideration. Licenses issued Applications approved after Thursday, March 26, 2015, are subject to the good cause requirement in OCSD Policy 218.
.

Last edited by Doheny; 04-09-2015 at 11:48 AM..
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  #212  
Old 04-08-2015, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by civlaw View Post
Did your buddy receive any type of approval notification prior to 4/7?
Not really, he was told after receiving training cert they would contact him for an appointment, but the next contact from them was the you need to send a GC statement before we can move on . SD not enough.
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  #213  
Old 04-08-2015, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by civlaw View Post
Considering some of the other things I'm seeing on his facebook, I'd take what he says with a healthy dose of skepticism followed by independent research.

Supposing he did know a way to ensure guaranteed issuance of a CCW permit for everyone, including those who would otherwise be disqualified via background check, I am disappointed that he isn't disclosing it. He wants money more than he wants a free state, and that's OK--nothing morally wrong with that. But, I'm not happy about it.
I don't personally know him, but I dislike him.

Nothing but a snake oil salesman......spreading FUD and profiting from the gullible who buy into his message.
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  #214  
Old 04-09-2015, 8:53 AM
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Artemis Defense Institute
Facebook Post: 9:30am 4/9/15
ATTENTION CCW HOLDERS AND THOSE INTERESTED IN CCW'S IN ORANGE COUNTY:

I have just returned from my meeting with Melissa at OCSD for my renewal. While there we had an "on the recored" conversation.

First: If you have gone through the process (completed your interview, done your livescan, and either completed OR are in the process of completing your training PRIOR to the 9th Circuits decision to grant En Banc review YOU WILL BE GRANDFATHERED IN WITH THE PREVIOUS APPLICANTS. You may have been contacted by OCSD asking for supplemental good cause, I would suggest you provide it, but your submittal is immaterial to you receiving your permit. If you are just now starting the process you WILL NEED TO SUPPORT YOUR APPLICATION WITH A GOOD CAUSE STATEMENT.

Second: She confirmed what the background investigator stated to me a couple of weeks ago. The Lieutenant that is in charge of approving CCW's is VERY PRO-CCW. I asked her what the bar was for "good cause". She gave me the expected answer that all applications are judged individually, however she did state that most of the "good cause" statements revolve around persons owning business, OR working for business where the owner supports the employee carrying concealed. This is not to be interpreted as EXCLUSIVELY for business owners... they just seem to be the ones coming in for their interviews.

Third: Add-A-Gun modifications: If you are interested in switching out or adding guns to your existing CCW you can do it all by mail. Send in the forms with your check and you will be mailed a new card. Included in the envelope with your new card will be a return envelope for your old card

Fourth: 5 guns on your CCW: This addition to five guns was approved but is currently on hold by admin. She expects it to ultimately go through once Peruta is settled one way or another.

Fifth: Props from our students. She told me we have received numerous positive reviews from students that have gone through our CCW class. THANK YOU!!!

Last edited by glock21sf; 04-09-2015 at 9:52 AM..
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  #215  
Old 04-09-2015, 9:19 AM
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Awesome news. This must be the exclusive "work around" for Greg Block: back-dated training. LOL.
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  #216  
Old 04-09-2015, 9:20 AM
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glock21sf that is good news. Appreciate your addressing the full range of issues.
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  #217  
Old 04-09-2015, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civlaw View Post
Considering some of the other things I'm seeing on his facebook, I'd take what he says with a healthy dose of skepticism followed by independent research.

Supposing he did know a way to ensure guaranteed issuance of a CCW permit for everyone, including those who would otherwise be disqualified via background check, I am disappointed that he isn't disclosing it. He wants money more than he wants a free state, and that's OK--nothing morally wrong with that. But, I'm not happy about it.
It seems that he's making a case for those told to incur training before the change. This is a very limited set of people. It's not a general work around. I'd like to see him help out everyone in that situation, they got financially screwed.
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  #218  
Old 04-09-2015, 9:27 AM
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Definitely good news. Hopefully a lot of us in the process fall into the grandfathered category.
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  #219  
Old 04-09-2015, 9:33 AM
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Originally Posted by glock21sf View Post
...
First: If you have gone through the process (completed your interview, done your livescan, and either completed OR are in the process of completing your training PRIOR to the 9th Circuits decision to grant En Banc review YOU WILL BE GRANDFATHERED IN WITH THE PREVIOUS APPLICANTS. You may have been contacted by OCSD asking for supplemental good cause, I would suggest you provide it, but your submittal is immaterial to you receiving your permit. If you are just now starting the process you WILL NEED TO SUPPORT YOUR APPLICATION WITH A GOOD CAUSE STATEMENT
...
Anyone who has had to wait more than 90+ days for their "interview" and doesn't meet the cut-off date should be pretty annoyed with this....
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  #220  
Old 04-09-2015, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
glock21sf that is good news. Appreciate your addressing the full range of issues.
It wasn't me, I just copied & pasted from Facebook. Steven & Sandy from Artemis are the folks that deserve thanks. I've been waiting to add 2 more guns when I read about 5 guns being allowed in December in a post from Doheny.
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  #221  
Old 04-09-2015, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by glock21sf View Post
Third: Add-A-Gun modifications: If you are interested in switching out or adding guns to your existing CCW you can do it all by mail. Send in the forms with your check and you will be mailed a new card. Included in the envelope with your new card will be a return envelope for your old card
This is great news and will make it easier for most to modify their licenses.

However, how do you get the thumb print on the new card?
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  #222  
Old 04-09-2015, 2:08 PM
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It is done electronically.
Is your thumb really as small as it is on the card?
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  #223  
Old 04-09-2015, 2:10 PM
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...,However, how do you get the thumb print on the new card?

Same way they put your pic on the new card. They have it on file electronically from when you got your original permit.

.
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  #224  
Old 04-09-2015, 2:32 PM
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You mail your thumb in with the paperwork.
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  #225  
Old 04-09-2015, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
I think all of us can articulate a good cause. Well need to see over the next few weeks as we analyze the GC shared by those who are getting permits post en banc.

I haven't seen numbers for OCSD area of responsibility, but I know that West Hollywood crime is up close to 400% over the last 12 months. Crime in LASD area of responsibility is up my guess is in response to the jail population reduction efforts. Seems to be more sophisticated as well. I won't be surprised if OCSD has figured out what Detroit Police Chief James Craig who came out of the LA system learned, just the addition of CCWs reduces crime.

I expect everyone who posts here is capable of expressing good cause. Well I certainly believe its my right to carry, I also am willing when I renew to state good cause. The security and peace of mind I have being able to carry is worth the effort. It means much more in practice than it did in theory.
This is all fine and good and certainly folks are articulate enough to write a GCS, but unless you either have the reasons or can invent them, there isn't anything to write about.

Someone else mentioned that crime is up, but I took a look at incidents of murder and assault in my city of business as of 2012 and it is a descending trend. Can't say for 2012 to current. However, more pointedly, I don't have a high-risk job situation that meets the 218 criteria, and the other reasons that I have for wanting one would be considered avoidable. So that's why I was asking for suggestions or pier review on what might be considered acceptable.

So far there's nothing. The list of possible GC reasons from the defensive-carry forum I cannot meet either - I'm not a doctor, I don't carry money or weapons, I'm not an instructor, I don't meet any of the suggested criteria. Unless I can come up with something reasonable in the next few weeks it would be pointless to submit an application at my interview May 5th.
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  #226  
Old 04-09-2015, 2:45 PM
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/\ hopefully by then you'll get a few PMs from folks in similar situations that recently interviewed and were successful.
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  #227  
Old 04-09-2015, 3:05 PM
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I am in the same boat as Browneye -- the only "record" I have to speak of is a single no-fault accident. The rest of my application is pretty much empty...

It would at least be nice to see people getting approvals under 218...
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  #228  
Old 04-09-2015, 6:05 PM
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That's good news about being grand fathered in. That means I should get mine still.
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  #229  
Old 04-09-2015, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by glock21sf View Post
It wasn't me, I just copied & pasted from Facebook. Steven & Sandy from Artemis are the folks that deserve thanks. I've been waiting to add 2 more guns when I read about 5 guns being allowed in December in a post from Doheny.
Roger that. I don't know Steven's screen name here on Calguns, so wasn't sure if he was posting straight up. I usually communicate with Sandy email wise unless I am in there place.

Great people. Did you read Steven's piece divide and conquer. Did make me regret posting the info on the intel from OCSD investigations.
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  #230  
Old 04-09-2015, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Browneye View Post
This is all fine and good and certainly folks are articulate enough to write a GCS, but unless you either have the reasons or can invent them, there isn't anything to write about.

Someone else mentioned that crime is up, but I took a look at incidents of murder and assault in my city of business as of 2012 and it is a descending trend. Can't say for 2012 to current. However, more pointedly, I don't have a high-risk job situation that meets the 218 criteria, and the other reasons that I have for wanting one would be considered avoidable. So that's why I was asking for suggestions or pier review on what might be considered acceptable.

So far there's nothing. The list of possible GC reasons from the defensive-carry forum I cannot meet either - I'm not a doctor, I don't carry money or weapons, I'm not an instructor, I don't meet any of the suggested criteria. Unless I can come up with something reasonable in the next few weeks it would be pointless to submit an application at my interview May 5th.
Don't know what city your in, but the chief of police for LA was on the air today talking about the increase in crime in the city, and the increase in gang crime. Like I said earlier Spotcrime.com can open your eyes in a heart beat.

Really the matter is this, between now and at least the 15th of June if your in the process your going to need good cause. If we believe that H218 is a frame work but not a stumbling block as it was in the past for OCSD applicants, we just have to work to help them out.

Ideally it isn't any more complex than the reason you would articulate to a significant other or friend on why you would choose to take on the massive liability, personal and financial risk of carrying a concealed weapon. If you haven't been through the California CCW training that may not yet be clear to you, a quick read of Massad Ayoob's in the gravest extreme, or Michael Marton's Concealed Carry and Home Defense. http://packinfurdefense.com/products...-uscca-edition
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  #231  
Old 04-09-2015, 7:10 PM
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Roger that. I don't know Steven's screen name here on Calguns, so wasn't sure if he was posting straight up. I usually communicate with Sandy email wise unless I am in there place.

Great people. Did you read Steven's piece divide and conquer. Did make me regret posting the info on the intel from OCSD investigations.
Yes, I read his Divide & Conquer post. I totally understand his point and I agree with his message. I don't regret reposting any of their Facebook or Blog posts and neither should you. They wanted us to share with people in the pro-gun community to get the message out. Positive news is a great thing when most gun related news we receive is negative. That being said, people that share our interest have had their rights taken away slowly but surely. It can be extremely frustrating and upsetting at times. It is hard to be positive when bad news comes our way (which is most of the time here in California). Like any group of people that share a cause or interest, you have a bunch of different personalities. These personalities mixed with uncertainty and different emotions will make a bunch negative comments appear in the forums instantaneously. It's expected and that is why I kept repeating, "Time will tell" and "stay positive and follow through with the CCW process." You get more flies with honey than vinegar.
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  #232  
Old 04-09-2015, 7:17 PM
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Not sure if this is a duplicate
http://m.ocregister.com/articles/she...mit-right.html
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  #233  
Old 04-09-2015, 7:27 PM
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Great people. Did you read Steven's piece divide and conquer. Did make me regret posting the info on the intel from OCSD investigations.
That was a good post, to be sure. Skepticism is good and healthy, but some people have an ax to grind and it hurts the community. I can't imagine why anyone would advise anyone else NOT to apply, when applying is FREE in every sense.


@Browneye
You may need to change your life style to be a bit more risky.
Right now it is impossible for anyone to advise you because no one knows what standard of good cause the Sheriff is accepting. Once we have data, we can begin being constructive.

It is speculated that the safety of areas you frequent are considered by the Sheriff.
How safe is your area doing compared to the county average? National average? How are cities surrounding your city doing? What about the area you work in? What about the areas you drive through? What about the area where your local Costco is? Do you go to Costco after dark?

It is speculated that being in possession of valuables makes you a target for robbery and that the sheriff considers these factors.
Do you golf? What is the value of your clubs, and how often do you go? What is the value of your car? Do you drive it often? Do you have a $2,000 carbon bicycle? Do you ride it often? How much of a target is your house compared to others on your street? How accessible and secluded is it compared to others?

The habits and occupations of other people can put you in danger. Are there any known or suspected drug dealers in your area? Do you work in the same building with anyone who has an occupation that might escalate their risk (and therefore yours as well), such as a debt collector, a family law attorney, a private investigator, etc?

People often rob family members, or someone they know. Is there anyone in your family or circle of acquaintances that has a criminal records?

Don't answer these. Just think about them.
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  #234  
Old 04-09-2015, 7:37 PM
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Thanks. But no. LOL.

The thing about house and home and vehicles and travel and stuff is why I want one. So yeah, there may be something there.

Primarily I travel quite a lot to very obscure places, but it is by choice. I want to be able to defend myself because there simply is no LE response there. My problem with it all is that it is voluntary so according to the GC requirements if it is avoidable it is not good cause. Sure, I can just stay home. LOL.


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If you haven't been through the California CCW training that may not yet be clear to you, a quick read of Massad Ayoob's in the gravest extreme, or Michael Marton's Concealed Carry and Home Defense. http://packinfurdefense.com/products...-uscca-edition
This would seem pretty basic to me. If you don't have a good understanding about basic firearm defense I'm not clear why a person would even be applying. I'm not some kind of noob, I must just sound like it I guess. <shrug>
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Last edited by Browneye; 04-09-2015 at 7:43 PM..
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Old 04-09-2015, 7:57 PM
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Browneye, well I was under the SD group, I did give good cause, among them the drug dealer across the street and his minions/customers (11 busts now and still there), otherwise my neighborhood was good until the prison releases went up, and they are moving a parole center near me.

When I discloused my Arizona CCW I pointed out I got it for the ability to carry when we camp and hike in the national forests. Gets over that debate of campsite/act of hunting vs. transportation. That actually seemed to resonate. I am sure not enough to get a permit from OCSD by itself, but still was an added reason, why I wanted one here. I am traveling the state but changes have happened, mostly budget cuts that make safe places less safe.
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Old 04-09-2015, 8:49 PM
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That was a good post, to be sure. Skepticism is good and healthy, but some people have an ax to grind and it hurts the community. I can't imagine why anyone would advise anyone else NOT to apply, when applying is FREE in every sense.


@Browneye
You may need to change your life style to be a bit more risky.
Right now it is impossible for anyone to advise you because no one knows what standard of good cause the Sheriff is accepting. Once we have data, we can begin being constructive.

It is speculated that the safety of areas you frequent are considered by the Sheriff.
How safe is your area doing compared to the county average? National average? How are cities surrounding your city doing? What about the area you work in? What about the areas you drive through? What about the area where your local Costco is? Do you go to Costco after dark?

It is speculated that being in possession of valuables makes you a target for robbery and that the sheriff considers these factors.
Do you golf? What is the value of your clubs, and how often do you go? What is the value of your car? Do you drive it often? Do you have a $2,000 carbon bicycle? Do you ride it often? How much of a target is your house compared to others on your street? How accessible and secluded is it compared to others?

The habits and occupations of other people can put you in danger. Are there any known or suspected drug dealers in your area? Do you work in the same building with anyone who has an occupation that might escalate their risk (and therefore yours as well), such as a debt collector, a family law attorney, a private investigator, etc?

People often rob family members, or someone they know. Is there anyone in your family or circle of acquaintances that has a criminal records?

Don't answer these. Just think about them.
I love this guy. Great positive energy and ideas.

We all know why we want to carry because we don't get to chose the when, where, and why we may become a victim. Anyone disagree?

Pick up a local newspaper....many times real life crimes are stranger than fiction. A man killed by a homeless person for 97 cents. A man goes on a killing spree at a Seal Beach beauty salon...one victim was just sitting in his car having lunch. Baseball fan receiving a life changing beat down. Etc. With the passage of a recent state law...more criminals have been release and cities are seeing spikes in crime.

I'll admit...some post reasons why finding GC may be difficult IF you buy into "risk factors" that would make you a more likely target. How valid are these predictive risk factors?

If I was in your shoes, than I would still apply. I would provide local news clipping of crimes that goes against common sense or when good people get caught in the wrong place/time. These documents would back my assertion that many people are victims of crime absent known risk factors. We all know this....just articulate it in your GC and provide documents.

And...after going through all that....and I still get denied. I can live with that knowing I've left my mark on the acceptance/denial rate and that I went against the grain of a local government wanting me not to apply.

Before Peruta....about 907 CCW were issued, many with restrictions. But how many applied? I know many did not apply for fear of being denied? If 907 out of 1000, then it gives OCSD the illusion of being pro-CCW. But if 907 out of 2,000 or 3,000....well than not so much. Believe me...both sides of this debate will use these stats. By not applying....it only helps their side's interpretation of that stat.

Last edited by viet4lifeOC; 04-09-2015 at 8:52 PM..
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Old 04-09-2015, 8:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
Same way they put your pic on the new card. They have it on file electronically from when you got your original permit.

.
Picture? Electronically? I thought we had a standardized license in CA? Mine does not have my picture on it and yes, the thumb print is exactly the same size as my thumb because it's done at the station with regular thumb print ink.

Do they scan your thumb print into the computer and then print it on the license in a smaller size?
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Old 04-09-2015, 9:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Browneye View Post
Primarily I travel quite a lot to very obscure places, but it is by choice. I want to be able to defend myself because there simply is no LE response there.
This all sounds like a good cause to me. I don't live in OC, but I used the fact that my wife and I like to hike through the desert as part of my good cause. There are big animals out there. It worked at the time.
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Old 04-09-2015, 9:06 PM
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Picture? Electronically? I thought we had a standardized license in CA? Mine does not have my picture on it and yes, the thumb print is exactly the same size as my thumb because it's done at the station with regular thumb print ink.

Do they scan your thumb print into the computer and then print it on the license in a smaller size?
Yes, the thumb print is smaller in size than real life. It basically indicates they have your finger prints on record electronically.

You can modify the handguns on your permit via (with a check for $10 and change) mail. They will update your permit with your requested changes and mail you the new permit, a letter, and OCSD addressed envelope. You are than to mail back your old permit. Not sending your old permit will void your permit.

Last edited by viet4lifeOC; 04-09-2015 at 9:10 PM..
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Old 04-09-2015, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Picture? Electronically? I thought we had a standardized license in CA? Mine does not have my picture on it and yes, the thumb print is exactly the same size as my thumb because it's done at the station with regular thumb print ink.

Do they scan your thumb print into the computer and then print it on the license in a smaller size?
No we do not have a standardized permit. I have seen everything from the slick plastic OCSD to paper Kern County.
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