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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 82 8.41%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 657 67.38%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 22 2.26%
I paid too much for my Membership! 45 4.62%
They will go out of business this year! 23 2.36%
Don't want anything to do with them! 146 14.97%
Voters: 975. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11281  
Old 11-04-2019, 1:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramynot View Post
Just finished the 4DDHG and wanted to pass along that because of the construction on Highway 160 between Pahrump and Las Vegas, a lot of that Highway is only one lane in both directions. I stayed in Las Vegas this trip and a few times it became pretty slow going both ways. So you may want to book extra drive time for any trips to Las Vegas.

Course as usual was fantastic, but brutally cold. When we started each day it was freezing... literally. The last day the temp gauge on the car read 19deg when I passed through the gate! Fortunately it warmed up by lunch but the coolness started coming back in by the end of each day.

Didn't seem there were many classes running at this time. Seemed to be only a few HG classes and some privates.

Because of what I read on recent reports, didn't even bother going into the pro shop.
Congrats to Kramynot - Newest DG on handgun! Keep up the good work!
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  #11282  
Old 11-07-2019, 9:47 AM
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Helped organize a trip to Front Sight. There were 8 of us. 3 of us were experienced FS members with lifetimes. Collectively we got everyone a membership. So far I haven't heard anything but good things from everyone went.

I had to deal with some function issues. After having some quick work done on my AR, I was being checked on multiple times a day on the range by Jeremy the armorer to make sure I was happy and everything was working well.

Personally hadn't been in a while.
The place is huge now with the new grading.
Saddlewest no longer does the Buy one Get one dinner.
No longer coffee wagon or the coffee cart at the facility.
No longer breakfast or any food on site.
Tried the Front Sight Lunch. I got the salad with some sort of beef. It was great.

Saddlewest finally figured out the "lunchbox hack" so they no longer have the add-ons trick.

A 4 day had 2 hottish days and 2 cooler days. The 4th day was about as perfect as you can get our for there.
Rifle was very challenging with the wind.

The instruction was excellent as always and I have trained with various different people and schools.

As mentioned, they aren't rigid on technique like they were. They just feel that you came to them, try it their way, if you don't like it then do it the way you want.
I personally struggle with this and Type 3 pistol/SA Rifle. I prefer the abbreviated type3, but if you want to DG then to have to do it the traditional way.

Proshop is different.
They don't have 5.11 anymore, they have First Tactical which is owned by the guy that started 5.11

Axil is still there.

Point system has changed. Currently unless specified otherwise you can only apply points to 70% of your purchase. I'm fine with that as I am a Front Sight multi-millionaire. Only the Constitution DVD set you can use 75% points.

A tip about "bringing the remaining ammo back that you took there". Make sure you have photocopies of your original receipts from your purchases if you still have them. If you haven't looked at them in a while you might notice they are extremely faded.

The RM was Greg Farris. Everyone was professional, polite, attentive and helpful.

I have made a suggestion to those with extra certs and memberships. If someone talks crap about FS, invite them out. No one irl has taking me up on the offer.

*If you are only able to shoot accurately and consistently from a particular stance of your choice, how good are you really?*

Last edited by GunHer; 11-07-2019 at 10:03 AM.. Reason: typos
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  #11283  
Old 11-08-2019, 8:01 PM
PLINK PLINK is offline
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A group of us attend FS yearly and we recently completed the Uzi course in private training. We did this coarse purely for fun, which it was. Modulating the trigger for one, two and three round shots in FA was challenging at first but we all got the hang of it. We pretty much ran through the skills test both days and most of us achieved DG upon completion.

Some take aways:

- Bring a dump pouch or some mag pouches that work with Uzi mags. Some guys had universal pouches. I used a Blackhawk dump pouch which worked well.

- Bring gloves. The PIG FTD Alfa gloves from SKD works great. https://www.skdtac.com/PIG-Full-Dext...-p/pig.700.htm

- Bring knee pads and elbow pads. You do prone position for sighting in.

- Some guys bought the Uzi specific Uplula mag loader for this coarse. I should have got one but survived without it.

- Front Sight makes you purchase ammo from them because you use their weapons for the coarse. Buy ammo as you go. I bought a 1K case of 115g Blazer Brass and only used 750 rounds. Gave what was left to the instructor.

- They provide 25 and 32 round mags. The 25 rounders worked a lot better from my experience.

- Use gun rental credits if you have them. I think regular credits also work for gun rentals.

Overall fun class. I recommend doing it at least once.

Last edited by PLINK; 11-08-2019 at 8:06 PM..
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  #11284  
Old 11-08-2019, 8:37 PM
damon1272 damon1272 is online now
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First day of 4DDHG with two 12 yo kids. We switched kids for coaching purposes so to limit back talk and for kids just to listen better.
Started my son out with a Glock 17 with a 22 conversion kit and 5 mags. It worked line a champ and was easy for both lids to operate.
The female was running a Ruger SR 22. That was not a good pistol for a kid to run for a first time with the hammer and having to press check.
End ended up having her transition over to the glock with conversion. And swapped my son over to a glock 19. Worked out much better than I thought it would as he was concerned with recoil and hot brass down the shirt.
There were a few tears from my friend daughter as she was getting overwhelmed. By the end of the day she was feeling better and looking forward to the next day.
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  #11285  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLINK View Post
A group of us attend FS yearly and we recently completed the Uzi course in private training. We did this coarse purely for fun, which it was. Modulating the trigger for one, two and three round shots in FA was challenging at first but we all got the hang of it. We pretty much ran through the skills test both days and most of us achieved DG upon completion.

Some take aways:

- Bring a dump pouch or some mag pouches that work with Uzi mags. Some guys had universal pouches. I used a Blackhawk dump pouch which worked well.

- Bring gloves. The PIG FTD Alfa gloves from SKD works great. https://www.skdtac.com/PIG-Full-Dext...-p/pig.700.htm

- Bring knee pads and elbow pads. You do prone position for sighting in.

- Some guys bought the Uzi specific Uplula mag loader for this coarse. I should have got one but survived without it.

- Front Sight makes you purchase ammo from them because you use their weapons for the coarse. Buy ammo as you go. I bought a 1K case of 115g Blazer Brass and only used 750 rounds. Gave what was left to the instructor.

- They provide 25 and 32 round mags. The 25 rounders worked a lot better from my experience.

- Use gun rental credits if you have them. I think regular credits also work for gun rentals.

Overall fun class. I recommend doing it at least once.
wife's favorite class, she's done 2 - 4 days, and 2- 4 nights, so far. I like it too, but w/ the costs of ammo, a bit expensive.
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  #11286  
Old 11-10-2019, 1:47 PM
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Taking the 4 day rifle marksmanship course weekend of the 22nd. Any suggestions for the course? What zero works best?
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  #11287  
Old 11-10-2019, 2:51 PM
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^ I recommend a light weight hunting rig, .223 to .308, with variable power scope zeroed at 100. Bipods on front and rear bag. Practice shooting off hand and unsupported.
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  #11288  
Old 11-10-2019, 2:55 PM
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There are varying opinions, for sure. I recommend 100 yard zero.
I get most of my info on snipers hide forum and podcasts.
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  #11289  
Old 11-10-2019, 5:36 PM
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If you intend on taking the precision rifle course, have a 100y
zero as that's what's taught.
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  #11290  
Old 11-12-2019, 1:18 PM
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So an AAR on taking kids through the 4DDHG course. Boy and girl not related but both 12.
The girl ran a Ruger SR 22 and the boy ran a Advantage arms 22 conversion.
The SR 22 was just OK but the double action trigger pull was a hassle for her to learn. When it came to running the gun it just didnít perform and was too complicated for her.
The Glock 17 with the AA kit did ok with the occasional hiccup that 22ís give us for practice on malfunction clearances. The SR 22 was taken out fairly early as it was not worth running the class with as she struggled. She was then given the Glock and she had less issues with the gun. Finally after a while even the stoppages with the AA kit was just not worth it.
Both kids were transitioned to 9mm. The boy on the first day and the girl half way through the second day.
One issue was the girl had really small hands and had difficulty on malfunctions. Switched her to a Gen 5 17 with Ambi controls and then she was able to set up type 2 & 3 malfunctions.

I worked with my son shooting the AA kit before hand and he was not near as intimidated as the girl for the class as she went in cold as a new shooter.

My son enjoyed the class while she struggled but ultimately said she would give it a go again. Which was a minor victory in itself.

It was worth getting in training on a 22 before the 9 but my son started to develop some issues because of additional recoil that we will be working on.

One thing we did do that the instructor wasnít crazy about but let use continue was we switched kids so that they would listen better and reduce any arguing. That seemed to work real well.

At the end of the day I DGed again. My buddy DGed for the first time. My so. Shot 23 down, but I wouldnít let him run concealment and I didnít want to add an additional issue to learn. Plus he is 12, he should for no reason be concealing a gun. The girl chose not to test as she was getting some serious anxiety. All in all a good trip and look forward to doing another class with my son.
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  #11291  
Old 11-13-2019, 2:42 PM
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Thanks for the AAR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Finally after a while even the stoppages with the AA kit was just not worth it.
Yeah, when I took my kid to his first match with the .22LR - they had him reshoot one stage because there were just strings of failures to fire. And this is in spite of using AA recommended ammo.


Quote:
Both kids were transitioned to 9mm.

...

It was worth getting in training on a 22 before the 9 but my son started to develop some issues because of additional recoil that we will be working on.
Yeah, I guess it's better then that I get my kid acclimated to 9s before heading out to FS.


Quote:
Switched her to a Gen 5 17 with Ambi controls and then she was able to set up type 2 & 3 malfunctions.
My kid can clear Type 1 and Type 2 since they're simply the same motion, albeit, need to work with him on setting them up in addition to clearing Type 3.

Quote:
At the end of the day I DGed again. My buddy DGed for the first time. My so. Shot 23 down, but I wouldnít let him run concealment and I didnít want to add an additional issue to learn. Plus he is 12, he should for no reason be concealing a gun.
Yeah, but wouldn't it be cool if your son DGed. Now you can bring him to THG/ATHG.

Cheers,


_
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  #11292  
Old 11-13-2019, 2:51 PM
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I would ya e loved if he shot it clean. If he did I would have him back our next month to DG it. Not the case though but he was safe in his handling and had a good time. We have some issues to sort out but I think we will get him there fairly quick.
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  #11293  
Old 11-13-2019, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
I would ya e loved if he shot it clean. If he did I would have him back our next month to DG it. Not the case though but he was safe in his handling and had a good time. We have some issues to sort out but I think we will get him there fairly quick.
Sweet!!! *thumbs up*


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  #11294  
Old 11-17-2019, 4:46 PM
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Default El Jefe menu

Since this thread is becoming “a tourist’s guide” to everything Front Sight, here is El Jefe Mexican Restaurant’s menu.

Tomorrow will be Chatthai Bistro.



.
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Last edited by beanz2; 11-17-2019 at 4:48 PM.. Reason: Shoot! How do I turn an attachment upside down?
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  #11295  
Old 11-17-2019, 7:14 PM
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Had a great time at the Rifle Marksmanship Skill builder. I got to meet my first cal gunner, million ants, in the class. He has a killer smoker setup he brought with him. Instructor Farris is leaving and moving to WA State. He said he has one more class to teach before he leaves. I think he a class act and I feel it will be a big loss. Bummer.

The weather couldn't have been any better. No wind at all. There must not have been any rain in long time. The dust that you are laying in is like a fine powder and gets all over you and your gear. I shot my 224 Valkyrie on day one, but was not having the usual good groupings I am used to. My son cleaned them the night before we left. I have read that can affect it, so that might have been a mistake. Day two I used a T/C Compass 6.5CM. It had a completely different reticle so I had to adjust my holdovers. I had much better groupings. My son and I had a great time and spent two days with some good dudes. Looking forward to whatever is next in Spring.
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  #11296  
Old 11-17-2019, 7:28 PM
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I finally ate at the el jefe #1. Much better service and food.
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  #11297  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:58 AM
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Just got back from RM Skill Builder this past weekend. I wanted to share that the normal lunchtime presentation on Saturday was by Dr. John Lott. I was very excited to hear him speak in person. And very glad that Dr. P is bringing him in to educate FS students on how the media is misrepresenting gun violence.

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  #11298  
Old 11-18-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
Just got back from RM Skill Builder this past weekend. I wanted to share that the normal lunchtime presentation on Saturday was by Dr. John Lott. I was very excited to hear him speak in person. And very glad that Dr. P is bringing him in to educate FS students on how the media is misrepresenting gun violence.





John Lott? Wow!!! Heís a heavyweight when it comes to the 2A! Did he take questions at the end?
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  #11299  
Old 11-18-2019, 12:02 PM
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^ - unfortunately I had to leave before he finished due to my start time on range 13.
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  #11300  
Old 11-18-2019, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Since this thread is becoming “a tourist’s guide” to everything Front Sight, here is El Jefe Mexican Restaurant’s menu.

Tomorrow will be Chatthai Bistro.



.
The goods are at My Thai!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
Had a great time at the Rifle Marksmanship Skill builder. I got to meet my first cal gunner, million ants, in the class. He has a killer smoker setup he brought with him. Instructor Farris is leaving and moving to WA State. He said he has one more class to teach before he leaves. I think he a class act and I feel it will be a big loss. Bummer.

The weather couldn't have been any better. No wind at all. There must not have been any rain in long time. The dust that you are laying in is like a fine powder and gets all over you and your gear. I shot my 224 Valkyrie on day one, but was not having the usual good groupings I am used to. My son cleaned them the night before we left. I have read that can affect it, so that might have been a mistake. Day two I used a T/C Compass 6.5CM. It had a completely different reticle so I had to adjust my holdovers. I had much better groupings. My son and I had a great time and spent two days with some good dudes. Looking forward to whatever is next in Spring.
Great to meet you man, that was a fun one.

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Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
^ - unfortunately I had to leave before he finished due to my start time on range 13.
The mystery continues. Who was 6.5Grendelfan??? Were you on relay 1, or 2?
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  #11301  
Old 11-18-2019, 2:42 PM
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We’ve met before. I was in you Aug class too. Congrats on your DG.
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  #11302  
Old 11-18-2019, 3:01 PM
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Anyone headed to tactical handgun Monday/Tuesday next week?
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  #11303  
Old 11-18-2019, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
We’ve met before. I was in you Aug class too. Congrats on your DG.
Aha it's going to blow TeamAllen’s mind when he figures out we were partnered up
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  #11304  
Old 11-18-2019, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by million_ants View Post
The goods are at My Thai!
Last time we were at My Thai the service was slow as molasses. We got our food only after 40 minutes. I kid you not.

Chatthai is closed on Mondays and as we did not want to wait to eat dinner for another hour, we went to OhJah Japanese Restaurant. Here are pics their menu.


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  #11305  
Old 11-18-2019, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Last time we were at My Thai the service was slow as molasses. We got our food only after 40 minutes. I kid you not.

Chatthai is closed on Mondays and as we did not want to wait to eat dinner for another hour, we went to OhJah Japanese Restaurant. Here are pics their menu.


.
Yeah theyíre definitely not the place when youíre hungry and need food now! But, boy I think itís delicious. I try to preface the recommendation with a disclaimer usually hehe. Every order the guy took last time I was there, he tried to talk people into something else. So tasty though. Didnít care for the chattgai food myself.
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  #11306  
Old 11-18-2019, 6:10 PM
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My favorite there is still OhJah...

=)

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  #11307  
Old 11-18-2019, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
My favorite there is still OhJah...
Don't forget to show your Frontsight membership card to get a 10% discount at OhJah.

Also check out Noodles and Crepes across the street from KFC.

https://noodlesandcrepes.com/
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  #11308  
Old 11-18-2019, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by million_ants View Post
Aha it's going to blow TeamAllenís mind when he figures out we were partnered up


Yeah. That is on you. Haha. Maybe we will connect at another class? I know I have to take it again. Maybe Spring?
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  #11309  
Old 11-19-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
Yeah. That is on you. Haha. Maybe we will connect at another class? I know I have to take it again. Maybe Spring?
Yup, I'll keep an eye out for plans. I'll be practicing my slinged up prone shooting for sure in the meantime.
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  #11310  
Old 11-19-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Since this thread is becoming ďa touristís guideĒ to everything Front Sight, here is El Jefe Mexican Restaurantís menu.

Tomorrow will be Chatthai Bistro.
The Carnitas plate is my goto at El Jefe's
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  #11311  
Old 11-19-2019, 2:14 PM
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The Carnitas plate is my goto at El Jefe's
I've cut out sugars and grains from my diet, and both times I've ordered the mixed fajitas they give me a plate piled high with veggies and meats, it's awesome. The molť was really good when I went the first couple of times. A buddy that was with really liked the lingua too.
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  #11312  
Old 11-19-2019, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Don't forget to show your Frontsight membership card to get a 10% discount at OhJah.
Yep... Actually, I forgot my card in my other shirt when I had to change before heading to OhJah. Good thing - both my kids (8 and 11) and wife had their cards...


Quote:
Also check out Noodles and Crepes across the street from KFC.

https://noodlesandcrepes.com/
I will check it out next time I'm there...


_
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  #11313  
Old 11-19-2019, 2:56 PM
tehDiceman tehDiceman is offline
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On this membership card, I've yet to use my membership but is this card something that I'll get when I go the first time or should I go check through my mail pile and see if I missed it?
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Old 11-19-2019, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
The Carnitas plate is my goto at El Jefe's
Mine is the Fish Filet a la Veracruz. There was so much food, I had the left over the following day for lunch.

Donít forget the Orchata. This drink is bottomless.

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Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Don't forget to show your Frontsight membership card to get a 10% discount at OhJah.

Also check out Noodles and Crepes across the street from KFC.

https://noodlesandcrepes.com/
Weíll have to try this Noodles and Crepes place. Anything good to buy for the following day for lunch?

OhJah does not ask for a FS card. Just tell them and they give you 10% off. But then we FS students do stick out like a sore thumb. Baseball caps with their names on a piece of tape, most are in 5.11 style cargo pants. (I actually havenít seen a fellow student open carrying in Pahrump)
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Old 11-19-2019, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tehDiceman View Post
On this membership card, I've yet to use my membership but is this card something that I'll get when I go the first time or should I go check through my mail pile and see if I missed it?
It was in the mail when you first signed up, but Course Admin will whip one up really fast if you ask nicely.


.
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Old 11-19-2019, 7:47 PM
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acegunnr acegunnr is offline
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WINTER STORM WARNING set to kick in at 4 a.m. Wednesday in region near Pahrump. "Heavy snow expected above 6,000 feet" per weather service
PAHRUMP FORECAST: https://bit.ly/352XnV3



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Old 11-19-2019, 8:51 PM
tehDiceman tehDiceman is offline
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
It was in the mail when you first signed up, but Course Admin will whip one up really fast if you ask nicely.





.
Awesome, I'll double check my packet. Thanks!

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Old 11-19-2019, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
WINTER STORM WARNING set to kick in at 4 a.m. Wednesday in region near Pahrump. "Heavy snow expected above 6,000 feet" per weather service
PAHRUMP FORECAST: https://bit.ly/352XnV3

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Thanks acegunner! Glad we escaped Pahrump today. Even then, the skies were already quite threatening in the afternoon.



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Last edited by beanz2; 11-19-2019 at 9:39 PM..
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Old 11-20-2019, 6:20 AM
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acegunnr acegunnr is offline
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
It was in the mail when you first signed up, but Course Admin will whip one up really fast if you ask nicely.





.
When you check in on Day 1, at the sign-in line, they will ask for your membership card (MC) and driver's license (DL) . They will check your DL name and picture with the name on your MC. If you have an older MC, without the QR code on the front, they will ask you to get a new one, at your convenience, over at the course admin trailer. That way you won't need your DL, just your MC at the sign in window, where they assign your range. If you don't have your MC with you, they can just use your DL to sign in. Younger kids don't need to show a driver's license obviously.

If you are with a group, it helps to collect everyone's DLs and MCs and give them to one person in your group who is at the head of the sign in line.

At the Pro Shop, when you purchase something, they will ask for your MC but can also look you up if you don't have it.

So at the very least, have your DL when you sign in on Day 1. If you lost your MC it is fast and easy to get a replacement at the course admin trailer.

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Old 11-21-2019, 4:51 PM
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Default How the heck does Front Sight Pricing Work?

I am not a member and have not been to Front Sight. Wanting to do the 4DDHG, probably in the spring when the weather is better. I have read tons about FS on here, and the info is useful. But I am still baffled by their pricing model. Course certificates are essentially free these days (available on eBay for $7). Lifetime memberships and diamond memberships very, very cheap.

It seems too good to be true, and I generally avoid deals like that because generally there is a catch someplace. I am willing to make an exception in FS's case because of all the testimonials from you guys. I am looking for advice on how to best do this. I am thinking to just buy a cheap course certificate for first class, then after I have experienced a class I can decide if I want a lifetime membership or not. Any reason not to do it that way?

Any online scams I should watch out for? I am not too worried about losing my $7 on eBay, but I don't want to buy a certificate, go all the way to Middleofnowhere, NV, and have certificate not honored.

I appreciate any guidance you guys can provide. It seems the operators of FS do their best to hide the ball.
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