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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 82 8.41%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 657 67.38%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 22 2.26%
I paid too much for my Membership! 45 4.62%
They will go out of business this year! 23 2.36%
Don't want anything to do with them! 146 14.97%
Voters: 975. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11601  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
Maybe, around 1030 pm, a motivational talk, Dr P update, then fireworks at midnight. If you make the drive for about 2 hrs program, then give it a try.
Thanks. So, it’s only a 2 hour program? Though it would be neat to meet Dr Piazza in person, I think it’s not worth the trip from the Vegas area unless we’re already there for classes. We’ll just watch the fireworks in Vegas there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandanin View Post
Moving to Vegas has been great for my FS visits.
Just having my daughter in Henderson has been great for us too. Of course it’s our house, she’s just a squatter there LOL.


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  #11602  
Old 02-28-2020, 5:19 PM
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Pyramid Glock triggers no longer allowed at Front Sight.

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  #11603  
Old 03-04-2020, 8:32 AM
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The QC at the Glockstore has never really been consistent.

Earlier in my shooting “life,” I bought their color pins! Arghhh...! Just binded my trigger... FAIL!!!

Now that I am more enlightened - no more Glockstore stuff, and just OEM with Glocks...




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Direct Action Group (DAG) - Pistol 1 & 2, AAR: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1620164
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  #11604  
Old 03-04-2020, 8:43 AM
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6.5Grendelfan 6.5Grendelfan is offline
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I put a Pyramid trigger in a G23 and let my wife try it out.

We were doing the “Press, Reset” drill. After a few shots she turned to me, with tears in here eyes saying “I’m just not getting this. I can’t get the reset”. She handed me the gun.

I stepped to the line and..
Press, shot #1, reset
Press, shot #2, reset
Press, shot #3 and #4, return trigger to GlockStore
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  #11605  
Old 03-05-2020, 6:42 AM
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Took a few sections from the HCM Skills Test in my morning dry practice session... Here a few thoughts/questions:

For the Multiples at 5-yards - one has to absolutely react to the "beep" (how is the HCM Test run?) and rely on a "flash" sight picture. I would surmise that to make the times, one should be able to "point shoot," considering the size of the thoraric cavity at 5-yards?

For the Malfunctions - in Type 1, does one really need to "twist" (rotate?) the pistol to its side when racking? No matter how I tried, I can't make 1.0-sec unless I just tap, rack then assess. ... I mean - breaking the trigger upon the beep is already at least 0.3-sec!?!

Type 2 at 1.2-sec is doable; while for Type 3 - in 10 attempts, I was able to break 4.0-sec 2 or 3 times. Doable with more practice - the movements should be smooth, natural/subsconscious with no hesitation.

Dang... The Malfunctions need to be done 5x each in the test!?!


The reloads are way doable. For example, in the emergency (slide-lock) reload, 1.9-sec is a LOT of time. However, my question is, can you at the same time go for your spare while looking down the ejection port?


Lastly - for the standard exercises - what zero are your pistols running? Where do you aim at the TC at 25-yards? At 50-yards? I know we had 25-yard/50-yard shooting at the THG. I was aiming halfway at 25-yards, and 6 o'clock at 50-yards - but was wondering if there is a more efficient way?


Oh yes, what do you guys run fiber optics or blacked out fronts? One of the HCM in my squad at ATHG suggested using all blacks...

... Okay, that is it - it's my stop. Later then... Thanks in advanced!!!


PS: I have NOT taken the HCMP class yet, but with the skills test description available online (at least in this forum) - wanted to try things out just to establish a baseline.


_
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  #11606  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:05 AM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Inline replies....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Took a few sections from the HCM Skills Test in my morning dry practice session... Here a few thoughts/questions:

For the Multiples at 5-yards - one has to absolutely react to the "beep" (how is the HCM Test run?) and rely on a "flash" sight picture. I would surmise that to make the times, one should be able to "point shoot," considering the size of the thoraric cavity at 5-yards?
Speed of presentation gives more time to micro-adjust during your trigger press. For me, that means getting I high count 2 and a very flat presentation through counts 4/5. That flat presentation prevents sight/muzzle wobble.

Its my opinion that knowledge of how 'bad' your sight picture can be at distances, is slightly better then the 'flash' concept....but in the end they are quite similar.

The rules for shooting multiples are that you must be in line with the final target you shoot.

There are allot of ways that you can shoot it; here's how I shoot it.
I shoot right to left.
I stand in front of the left-most target of the 4.
Lets call the target I'm in front of Target A. Moving left to right that's A B C D
So for me the 3 rounds are shot as; BA, CBA, DCBA
For each round as I stand on the line my stance is such that my natural speed presentation is to the first target in my string.
As I rotate right to left, my body effectively winds-up in tension. In theory that slows down your rotation and some people don't like that. I think I benefit from the increased tension as it keeps me more stable.

Quote:
For the Malfunctions - in Type 1, does one really need to "twist" (rotate?) the pistol to its side when racking? No matter how I tried, I can't make 1.0-sec unless I just tap, rack then assess. ... I mean - breaking the trigger upon the beep is already at least 0.3-sec!?!
I think the term you are looking for is 'flip'. Tap, rack/flip. The gun cannot remain vertical. My gun is rotated about 45 degrees. Some do less, some do more. For me, the key to making time was realizing that the 'tap' doesn't require separating your support hand from the gun before you move into the rack/flip. You also don't need to tap from 10 inches, an inch or so is more than enough to be effective.

Here's a description of my Type 1.
Click.
Strong hand begins slight clockwise rotation while breaking grip from weak hand.
I drive the bottom of the magazine into the heel of my weak hand.
My weak hand is also rotating and starting to cup.
As soon as the strike is completer the weak hand is coming up over the slide while the strong hand continues to rotate.
Racked while rotated.
Weak hand moves back to firing grip while strong hand rotates back to a sight picture.
Ending with finger on trigger deciding whether or not to shoot.

...Just keep practicing...

Quote:
Type 2 at 1.2-sec is doable; while for Type 3 - in 10 attempts, I was able to break 4.0-sec 2 or 3 times. Doable with more practice - the movements should be smooth, natural/subsconscious with no hesitation.
Don't forget that Type 1 and 2 are the exact same mechanics, it simply starts with the 'look and move'.

Since you aren't having issue with Type 2 but are with Type 1, that suggests to me that you are manipulating the gun differently at the tap, rack/flip stage. I would suggest filming your self or having someone watch you.

When filming do lots of repetitions before you switch drills (10+) or you might end up changing your technique in anticipation of the drill change.

For Type 3 it is very important to note a couple things different from the Defensive Handgun skills test. The Advanced and Master's handgun tests do not require a 'mag check'. The other is that there seems to be a gray area on the 3x rack. On the basic skills test they don't tend to reinforce keeping your weak hand gripping the slide during while racking. Letting go takes too much time to reacquire a grip.

I also regularly see people 'get away with' 2 or even 1 rack...don't fall into that trap. If you are already within passing range from shooting, you will absolutely get caught.

Also note that its quite rare to actually do the malfunction portion of the test. It generally gets skipped unless someone has the possibility of passing.

Quote:
Dang... The Malfunctions need to be done 5x each in the test!?!
Yes, and just like with the DH skills test, I've seen people pass the shooting portion and fail on malfunctions.

[quote]
The reloads are way doable. For example, in the emergency (slide-lock) reload, 1.9-sec is a LOT of time. However, my question is, can you at the same time go for your spare while looking down the ejection port?
[quote]

Yes, look/move/check can all be done simultaneously. Frankly, the reloads are the easiest part of the test.

Quote:
Lastly - for the standard exercises - what zero are your pistols running? Where do you aim at the TC at 25-yards? At 50-yards? I know we had 25-yard/50-yard shooting at the THG. I was aiming halfway at 25-yards, and 6 o'clock at 50-yards - but was wondering if there is a more efficient way?
I normally run Dawson Precision fiber front with blacked out serrated rear for M&P Pro. On the rare occasion that I shoot a Glock 34/35 its with Taran Tactical sights which are quite similar.

I'm zerord at roughly 25 yards.

I do not change my point of aim at all until about 75 yards while 'combat shooting' A 1.5" to 2" drop at 50 is effectively meaningless for Thoracic Cavity shots. Frankly, when I pull a 50 yard shot out, it tends to be in the horizontal dimension not the vertical

Quote:
Oh yes, what do you guys run fiber optics or blacked out fronts? One of the HCM in my squad at ATHG suggested using all blacks...

... Okay, that is it - it's my stop. Later then... Thanks in advanced!!!
Try it all, see what works for you.

Quote:
PS: I have NOT taken the HCMP class yet, but with the skills test description available online (at least in this forum) - wanted to try things out just to establish a baseline.


_
I have not yet officially passed the test, though I have shot it in the -40s many hundreds of times during practice and about a dozen times during official tests. Passing during practice tests happens, but the test is SUPER hard to maintain consistency. Allot of it comes down to micro up/down cycles in performance.My averages tended to be in the -60-80 range. But unfortunately, life has taken a turn and I'm no longer able to train regularly enough to sustain that.

Realistically, I'm not sure I'll be able to dedicate the time to get back in the running for it again...

I still try to shoot the test cold at least once a month, but now I hover in the -120 range

Good luck to you on your journey!!!

Last edited by mej16489; 03-07-2020 at 10:13 AM.. Reason: Forgot to address zero and 25/50
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  #11607  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:17 AM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Another tip for HCMP practice, drop at least .05 to .1 off of the par time for all shots where you are not shooting at the centerline of the target. i.e. odd angles, hostage

For all drills during the test you will be reacting to the cadence, not simply a random beep. Running drills with a random beep will get you a few hundredths back when you run with a cadence. The line is set...ready...beep

Last edited by mej16489; 03-07-2020 at 10:21 AM..
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  #11608  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Took a few sections from the HCM Skills Test in my morning dry practice session... Here a few thoughts/questions:

For the Multiples at 5-yards - one has to absolutely react to the "beep" (how is the HCM Test run?) and rely on a "flash" sight picture. I would surmise that to make the times, one should be able to "point shoot," considering the size of the thoraric cavity at 5-yards?

For the Malfunctions - in Type 1, does one really need to "twist" (rotate?) the pistol to its side when racking? No matter how I tried, I can't make 1.0-sec unless I just tap, rack then assess. ... I mean - breaking the trigger upon the beep is already at least 0.3-sec!?!

Type 2 at 1.2-sec is doable; while for Type 3 - in 10 attempts, I was able to break 4.0-sec 2 or 3 times. Doable with more practice - the movements should be smooth, natural/subsconscious with no hesitation.

Dang... The Malfunctions need to be done 5x each in the test!?!


The reloads are way doable. For example, in the emergency (slide-lock) reload, 1.9-sec is a LOT of time. However, my question is, can you at the same time go for your spare while looking down the ejection port?


Lastly - for the standard exercises - what zero are your pistols running? Where do you aim at the TC at 25-yards? At 50-yards? I know we had 25-yard/50-yard shooting at the THG. I was aiming halfway at 25-yards, and 6 o'clock at 50-yards - but was wondering if there is a more efficient way?


Oh yes, what do you guys run fiber optics or blacked out fronts? One of the HCM in my squad at ATHG suggested using all blacks...

... Okay, that is it - it's my stop. Later then... Thanks in advanced!!!


PS: I have NOT taken the HCMP class yet, but with the skills test description available online (at least in this forum) - wanted to try things out just to establish a baseline.


_
Rodralig:

1) Take the 4-day HCMP class
2) 5M Multiples is a "combination" of point shooting/flash sight picture and sighted shooting. You may be catching your sights as the first shot breaks, but you can carry the sight picture to the remaining targets.
3) For HCM, Malfunctions start with "Point in, press, finger straight" THEN the beep and timer starts
4) Zeroing - for thoracic shots, not that much of an issue. For 25M and 50M how your eyes pick up the sights and sight picture may be more of a factor. You need to practice 25M and 50M shots to find "YOUR BEST HOLD", and then use it. Also, treat the 50M shots like a ragged hole drill. Sight picture perspective is similar, and plenty of time.
5) Sights are personal preference. I actually use stock Glock sights (steel version) and have passed 20 times....

In summary, take the class. Dry practice to the point where you know that you can make the presentation and a perfect press within the time frame. On the range, you are not trying to beat the turner times, you are just making your presentation and perfect press - and it happens to be within the time frame.
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  #11609  
Old 03-13-2020, 5:15 AM
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I was wondering if Front Sight had any plans on cancelling classes next week since I'm scheduled for the 4 day handgun class starting on Monday. Just spoke to a Front Sight representative on the phone and they informed me they have no plans on cancelling any classes.

I asked because I have up until 3/14 to cancel my hotel reservation and still be able to get a full refund.
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  #11610  
Old 03-13-2020, 5:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I was wondering if Front Sight had any plans on cancelling classes next week since I'm scheduled for the 4 day handgun class starting on Monday. Just spoke to a Front Sight representative on the phone and they informed me they have no plans on cancelling any classes.

I asked because I have up until 3/14 to cancel my hotel reservation and still be able to get a full refund.
Check with the hotel. I have been getting emails from Marriott, Hilton, etc., saying they are going to waive any cancellation fees because of the virus. You may be ok. I don't think FS would cancel because of the class being outdoors. Just be aware when you go in for the morning paperwork and lunchtime.
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  #11611  
Old 03-13-2020, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Check with the hotel. I have been getting emails from Marriott, Hilton, etc., saying they are going to waive any cancellation fees because of the virus. You may be ok. I don't think FS would cancel because of the class being outdoors. Just be aware when you go in for the morning paperwork and lunchtime.
I’m not worried about it. I’m an RN in a busy Bay Area emergency department.

Last edited by Vinnie Boombatz; 03-20-2020 at 8:17 PM..
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  #11612  
Old 03-13-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I’m not worried about it. I’m an RN in a busy Bay Area emergency department. Vivid-19 doesn’t scare me.
thus the doctor reference in your screen name. nice. Thanks for taking care of all of us through this stuff. I am in the north bay and the stores are getting pretty bare. sure glad for ammo when the zombies come...
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  #11613  
Old 03-13-2020, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
thus the doctor reference in your screen name. nice. Thanks for taking care of all of us through this stuff. I am in the north bay and the stores are getting pretty bare. sure glad for ammo when the zombies come...
The doctor reference is more of a comedy reference. Rodney Dangerfield used to always do bits referring to his Dr., who's name was Vinnie Boombatz.

https://youtu.be/Bg36PU96U0w
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  #11614  
Old 03-14-2020, 6:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I’m not worried about it. I’m an RN in a busy Bay Area emergency department. Covid-19 doesn’t scare me.
Good luck, Vinnie. Hope your hospital has a good Chinese Wuhan virus containment policy.

(I refuse to call it the Politically Correct name of “COVID-19”. after all the Chinese Communist Party is trying to do to the US. Read today’s news. FWIW, I am Chinese.)


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  #11615  
Old 03-14-2020, 8:33 AM
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Back for day 2 and weather is much nicer.
Rained most of the day yesterday, today is sunny, little breeze and in the 50's

Anyone else out this weekend?
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  #11616  
Old 03-14-2020, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Back for day 2 and weather is much nicer.
Rained most of the day yesterday, today is sunny, little breeze and in the 50's

Anyone else out this weekend?
Left on Friday. Had a few showers but glad to be driving on Friday rather than training in the rain.
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  #11617  
Old 03-14-2020, 12:12 PM
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We are taking the 2 day handgun class on Thursday next week (19 March). Is there any talk of cancelled classes due to the current crazyness? We still plan on going unless we can't cross the california border into Nevada.

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  #11618  
Old 03-14-2020, 12:14 PM
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Weather was CRAZY driving in Thursday. From CA to Vegas I saw 16 different wrecks on the 15 fwy.
Most of them single vehicle collisions who lost control and smashed.
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  #11619  
Old 03-14-2020, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvetter982 View Post
We are taking the 2 day handgun class on Thursday next week (19 March). Is there any talk of cancelled classes due to the current crazyness? We still plan on going unless we can't cross the california border into Nevada.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
No plans to cancel.
They talked about it today
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  #11620  
Old 03-14-2020, 3:57 PM
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I'm taking the 4-day handgun class this week. Front Sight website says to bring 650-700 rounds, but have heard form others to bring more.

Is 1,000 rounds sufficient?
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  #11621  
Old 03-14-2020, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Good luck, Vinnie. Hope your hospital has a good Chinese Wuhan virus containment policy.

(I refuse to call it the Politically Correct name of “COVID-19”. after all the Chinese Communist Party is trying to do to the US. Read today’s news. FWIW, I am Chinese.)


.
Thanks. So far I'm still alive!
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  #11622  
Old 03-14-2020, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I'm taking the 4-day handgun class this week. Front Sight website says to bring 650-700 rounds, but have heard form others to bring more.

Is 1,000 rounds sufficient?
1,000 is more than enough.
700 is the max you are likely to use in a 4 day and that includes never picking up any rounds you might drop when clearing malfunctions
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  #11623  
Old 03-14-2020, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
1,000 is more than enough.
700 is the max you are likely to use in a 4 day and that includes never picking up any rounds you might drop when clearing malfunctions
Thanks!
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  #11624  
Old 03-14-2020, 7:16 PM
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The smaller the class size, the more efficient the drills and the more ammo you burn. You always have the option of buying more ammo or running the drills dry. I expect the classes to be pretty small right now. Pack accordingly.
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  #11625  
Old 03-15-2020, 9:11 AM
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You may hit 700 rounds if you stay for Day 5 and test for Nevada.
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  #11626  
Old 03-17-2020, 9:19 PM
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All Front Sight courses cancelled through April 17th due to the orders of Governor Sisolak.
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  #11627  
Old 03-17-2020, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
All Front Sight courses cancelled through April 17th due to the orders of Governor Sisolak.
Hope they find a way to compensate the Instructors/Employees.

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  #11628  
Old 03-17-2020, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Hope they find a way to compensate the Instructors/Employees.



An email should come out tomorrow.

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  #11629  
Old 03-18-2020, 4:23 AM
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I got an email saying the something when I heck my email after dinner last night. Bummed because I'm at FS right now for the handgun course and having a great time. Ended up getting a membership from another Calguns member, so I'll definitely be back.
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  #11630  
Old 03-18-2020, 6:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I got an email saying the something when I heck my email after dinner last night. Bummed because I'm at FS right now for the handgun course and having a great time. Ended up getting a membership from another Calguns member, so I'll definitely be back.
Be prepared, as you will now get several emails per day. If you have a membership think about the value you may or may not get with all the offers to upgrade you are about to receive.

A new offer came out this morning. Legacy memberships are $250. Buy 5 and get a gun. Otherwise known as pay 1250 for a gun worth 350.
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  #11631  
Old 03-18-2020, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I got an email saying the something when I heck my email after dinner last night. Bummed because I'm at FS right now for the handgun course and having a great time. Ended up getting a membership from another Calguns member, so I'll definitely be back.
Hope you drove to FS. Flying home with the extra ammo can be tricky if you have a lot left.

You can always donate the extra ammo to the instructors. They'd be out of work for a month Unless the good doctor pays them.


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  #11632  
Old 03-18-2020, 8:12 AM
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There have been no official cancellation emails yet for those registered in that 30day window.
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  #11633  
Old 03-18-2020, 12:26 PM
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6.5Grendelfan 6.5Grendelfan is offline
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I just called them - they are closed for 30 days.
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  #11634  
Old 03-18-2020, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Hope you drove to FS. Flying home with the extra ammo can be tricky if you have a lot left.

You can always donate the extra ammo to the instructors. They'd be out of work for a month Unless the good doctor pays them.


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Yes, I drove.
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  #11635  
Old 03-18-2020, 1:35 PM
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Although I only got through 2.5 days of the 4-day handgun course because of the governor shutting down all "non-essential businesses" today at noon, I have to say this was an incredible experience.

I am very new to owning firearms, and only bought my first one 4 weeks ago, only been to the range 3 times since purchase, and a 2 hour block with a firearms instructor. I've read all the post from people who want to hate on Front Sight, say it's a waste of time, etc. Maybe I don't know enough to know, but I think it's an incredible place and far exceeded any expectations I had or what I thought it would be like.

Safety there is paramount, and you often check and recheck your firearm, and you do this countless times every day, before, after and during every drill. Some say this class is just for beginners, but there were all different types of people there from all different experience levels including a marine (guy was an amazing shot) and another gentleman who had been through 67 classes at FS, several couples who had been to a few classes previously, a few families, small groups of friends, etc. I never once heard anyone say that the curriculum and what we were learning wasn't practical or useful, and the people who had been there before said they learn something new every time and reinforce things they learned before. Everyone, and I mean everyone in the class I was in seemed to be having a great time. Everyone was taking the class seriously, but everyone also had a smile on their face, even when it was cold and rainy the second morning.

I attribute the fact that everyone was smiling to the instructors we had. These guys were top-notch and this was what impressed me the most. These guys were extremely professional, personable and helpful. We had a total of 4, sometimes 5 instructors, for our class of 32. Being new I was very appreciative of them correcting technique, giving advice, etc., and it was always done in a non-judgmental, friendly manner. These guys weren't just standing around. They seemed to be very attentive and eager to help and reinforce technique, and they all seemed to really enjoy what they do.

I'd say if your're someone who's just looking to dismiss the place and have a bad attitude, you probably wouldn't have fun there (and you probably wouldn't have fun anywhere). If you're and experienced shooter (or THINK you're an experienced shooter) there are plenty of other places that seem to cater to that type of person. If you're a humble beginner, or humble and experienced I think you'll find a lot of value in this class, regardless of skill level.

Please take my experience with a grain of salt, as I stated earlier, I'm brand new to owning firearms, and for me this seemed like the best thing I could have done. I'll definitely be going back though during my next week off from work, that's for sure.

Last edited by Vinnie Boombatz; 03-29-2020 at 9:31 AM..
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  #11636  
Old 03-18-2020, 3:49 PM
Jerry1834 Jerry1834 is offline
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Well said Vinnie B.
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  #11637  
Old 03-18-2020, 4:06 PM
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There have been no official cancellation emails yet for those registered in that 30day window.
Course cancellation emails went out this afternoon.
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  #11638  
Old 03-18-2020, 4:40 PM
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Doctor_Chicago Doctor_Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Course cancellation emails went out this afternoon.
Yes they did
Closed for 30 days

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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  #11639  
Old 03-19-2020, 8:08 AM
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Vinnie B, you will find that nobody that has been there really complains about the course, the instructors or the range. People, complain about the marketing, the constant offers to upgrade and the promise of building the resort. Personally, I have never had a bad class there and I have taken quite a few. I have never met a bad instructor or been in a class with bad students.
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  #11640  
Old 03-19-2020, 9:24 AM
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6.5Grendelfan 6.5Grendelfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Course cancellation emails went out this afternoon.
Here is the email......

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