Safe affidavits?

[Skalinas]

I just got done buying a few more guns and was wondering... maybe someone could expain to me the point of a safe affidavit? I have a couple safes but do all guns have to be stored unloaded and locked inside a “qualified” safe? What if i wanted to store guns in an “unqualified” gun cabinet like a $90 stack-on from walmart? What if i wanted to have a loaded glock 19 under my pillow? A shotgun under the bed? There are no minors in the house, so i am wondering what laws actually govern us Californians with regards to storage of firearms inside the home.

Update: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

Says here a qualified safe has to meet certain standards. Do we really have to abide by these standards for any gun storage container?

[dvs762]

State needs a qualified safety system for each gun sold. OEM lock or a safe or you buy a lock pretty much...up to you what you do after you get it home..but we have to get that paper..and give you a child safety warning with each gun..this is a nanny state.. anything else you question..just say . ...California...that's it... diapers will likely be handed out soon with each gun since they hardly trust us with even a sharp stick..

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[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Skalinas

I just got done buying a few more guns and was wondering... maybe someone could expain to me the point of a safe affidavit?

CA laws requires a CA DOJ approved firearm safety device to be included everytime a CA FFL dealer transfers a firearm. [PC 23635(a)]

The safe affidavit is an exemption to needing to buy a firearm safety device everytime you acquire a firearm from a CA FFL dealer. [PC 23635(b)]


Penal Code 23635
(a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearm safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice’s roster of approved firearm safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.
(b) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the standards set forth in Section 23650. Gun safes shall not be required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards without appearing on the Department of Justice roster.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the firearms dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of purchase with the dealer’s record of sales of firearms.
(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer, which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in paragraphs (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealer’s record of sales of firearms.
(d)(1) Any long-gun safe commercially sold or transferred in this state, or manufactured in this state for sale in this state, that does not meet the standards for gun safes adopted pursuant to Section 23650 shall be accompanied by the following warning:
“WARNING: This gun safe does not meet the safety standards for gun safes specified in California Penal Code Section 23650. It does not satisfy the requirements of Penal Code Section 23635, which mandates that all firearms sold in California be accompanied by a firearm safety device or proof of ownership, as required by law, of a gun safe that meets the Section 23650 minimum safety standards developed by the California Attorney General.”
(2) This warning shall be conspicuously displayed in its entirety on the principal display panel of the gun safe’s package, on any descriptive materials that accompany the gun safe, and on a label affixed to the front of the gun safe.
(3) This warning shall be displayed in both English and Spanish, in conspicuous and legible type in contrast by typography, layout, or color with other printed matter on the package or descriptive materials, in a manner consistent with Part 1500.121 of Title 16 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or successor regulations thereto.
(e) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall be accompanied by warning language or a label as described in Section 23640.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Skalinas

What if i wanted to store guns in an “unqualified” gun cabinet like a $90 stack-on from walmart?

If the Stack-On gun cabinet is sold in a Wal-Mart located in CA, then it is a CA DOJ approved firearm safety device.
^Otherwise, it would not be legal for Wal-Mart to sell it in CA.

CA DOJ BOF Roster of Approved Firearm Safety Devices
^Check this roster to see all the Stack-On models that are CA DOJ approved.

Originally Posted by Skalinas

I have a couple safes but do all guns have to be stored unloaded and locked inside a “qualified” safe?
What if i wanted to have a loaded glock 19 under my pillow? A shotgun under the bed? There are no minors in the house, so i am wondering what laws actually govern us Californians with regards to storage of firearms inside the home.

As long as there are no minors or prohibited persons living at the residence, then there are no CA laws that mandates firearms must be locked up at all times.
As long as there are no minors or prohibited person that visit the residence, then there are no CA laws that mandates firearms must be locked up at all times.

[P5Ret]

Originally Posted by Quiet

If the Stack-On gun cabinet is sold in a Wal-Mart located in CA, then it is a CA DOJ approved firearm safety device.
^Otherwise, it would not be legal for Wal-Mart to sell it in CA.

CA DOJ BOF Roster of Approved Firearm Safety Devices
^Check this roster to see all the Stack-On models that are CA DOJ approved.



As long as there are no minors or prohibited persons living at the residence, then there are no CA laws that mandates firearms must be locked up at all times.
As long as there are no minors or prohibited person that visit the residence, then there are no CA laws that mandates firearms must be locked up at all times.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the safe affidavit does nothing for the fed requirement for handguns.

So someone would still need to purchase a lock if it doesn't come with one. Even though the fed's don't have that stupid "must be purchased in last 30 days" (or whatever it is) rule.

[operavoice]

After they sell you the lock, return it in a separate transaction.
The law says that they have to sell it, it doesn't say that you have to keep it.

[Blade Gunner]

Originally Posted by operavoice

After they sell you the lock, return it in a separate transaction.
The law says that they have to sell it, it doesn't say that you have to keep it.

Never thought of that. I got a box of useless gun locks.

[dvs762]

Handguns need a lock no matter the safe affidavit. Most come with a lock

Originally Posted by P5Ret

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the safe affidavit does nothing for the fed requirement for handguns.

So someone would still need to purchase a lock if it doesn't come with one. Even though the fed's don't have that stupid "must be purchased in last 30 days" (or whatever it is) rule.

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[Meety Peety]

Originally Posted by operavoice

After they sell you the lock, return it in a separate transaction.
The law says that they have to sell it, it doesn't say that you have to keep it.

There was a gun shop down here that used to advocate doing this. Can't remember who it was now. They only charged like $4.99 for it as well when most other places are $10-$12. It's been a while since I bought a handgun that didn't come with a lock to be honest. It's pretty much the norm these days.

[Dirtlaw]

I believe I looked this up a long time ago and signing the affidavit gave some kind of law enforcement inspection rights. I've always gone the option of purchasing a lock since. Again, I may have it wrong ... a lot of water under the bridge and an old mind to boot.

[P5Ret]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

I believe I looked this up a long time ago and signing the affidavit gave some kind of law enforcement inspection rights. I've always gone the option of purchasing a lock since. Again, I may have it wrong ... a lot of water under the bridge and an old mind to boot.

Yeah you got it wrong.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bof-978.pdf?

[dvs762]

Any handgun sold in California and maybe federally as well must be locked before leaving the FFL s office. Very few possible exceptions..maybe LEO with a LEO letter but I even make cops lock them up.

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[71MUSTY]

If I forget to print a receipt before I go to the FFL I will go ahead and buy the lock then I mail it COD to Jerry Brown's office

[P5Ret]

Originally Posted by dvs762

Any handgun sold in California and maybe federally as well must be locked before leaving the FFL s office. Very few possible exceptions..maybe LEO with a LEO letter but I even make cops lock them up.

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I've never had anyone tell me that when I purchased a gun. Is that law or your policy? I've had shop's tell me to make sure to lock it up for transport, but I've walked out of several store's with just the box or case, more than once.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Quiet

As long as there are no minors or prohibited persons living at the residence, then there are no CA laws that mandates firearms must be locked up at all times.
As long as there are no minors or prohibited person that visit the residence, then there are no CA laws that mandates firearms must be locked up at all times.

Quoted because it needs to be repeated again.

Not smart, but not illegal to store your entire collection hanging from the living room wall loaded and chambered.

Yes, some municipalities have passed "safe storage" laws that do require firearms in the home to be unloaded and locked up, but there is nothing on the state level, and it can be no higher than a misdemeanor on the municipal level, there will be no roving squads from the local PD with search warrants checking your safe.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by P5Ret

I've never had anyone tell me that when I purchased a gun. Is that law or your policy? I've had shop's tell me to make sure to lock it up for transport, but I've walked out of several store's with just the box or case, more than once.

California law does not allow for concealed (or open) carry other than within a secure, locked container.
When transporting within a motor vehicle, there are no specific destination requirements. You can legally carry a handgun or rifle (unloaded) in the trunk of your car 24/7 except onto a military base or post office parking lot.
When transporting other than within a motor vehicle, specific destination requirements apply. A gun store or range is included, as well as your home.

You can not legally carry a gun from your car to anywhere unless it is completely contained within a secure locking container.

The factory trigger lock does NOT satisfy this requirement. The legal purpose of the trigger lock is 100% fulfilled when you step through the FFL's door, but at that point, it must be locked in a container.
It's a problem for guns that are sold in cardboard boxes, or PPT that might be sold in a gun rug.
For Glocks, Kimber, and most others that are sold in a plastic case, just loop the cable lock through the handle tight enough to prevent opening the case and you're legal.

[dvs762]

One of my ATF inspectors said that it's part of the child safety law about locks and handguns. I do it also since my liability insurance requires me to do so. I haven't looked up the wording of the law but even if he's wrong I do it anyway just to be sure I'm covered either way. All the FFLs I've worked for or with also said it's required..

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[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by dvs762

Handguns need a lock no matter the safe affidavit. Most come with a lock

Correct.
Federal law requires that all handguns be transferred with a lock.
Federal law does not recognize the California Safe Affidavit.
Federal law does NOT require a lock for anything other than a handgun, so the Safe Affidavit is acceptable for lowers, rifles, shotguns, etc....

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by dvs762

One of my ATF inspectors said that it's part of the child safety law about locks and handguns. I do it also since my liability insurance requires me to do so. I haven't looked up the wording of the law but even if he's wrong I do it anyway just to be sure I'm covered either way. All the FFLs I've worked for or with also said it's required..

It is not possible to apply a cable lock (or Ruger's padlock) to a revolver AND then put that revolver into a pistol case, which is required for legal transport across your parking lot.

Yes, the gun must be within a locked container when they step out of your door. There is no requirement that the provided trigger lock be installed on the gun when it is within that case.

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by Cokebottle

California law does not allow for concealed (or open) carry other than within a secure, locked container.
When transporting within a motor vehicle, there are no specific destination requirements. You can legally carry a handgun or rifle (unloaded) in the trunk of your car 24/7 except onto a military base or post office parking lot.
When transporting other than within a motor vehicle, specific destination requirements apply. A gun store or range is included, as well as your home.

You can not legally carry a gun from your car to anywhere unless it is completely contained within a secure locking container.

The factory trigger lock does NOT satisfy this requirement. The legal purpose of the trigger lock is 100% fulfilled when you step through the FFL's door, but at that point, it must be locked in a container.
It's a problem for guns that are sold in cardboard boxes, or PPT that might be sold in a gun rug.
For Glocks, Kimber, and most others that are sold in a plastic case, just loop the cable lock through the handle tight enough to prevent opening the case and you're legal.

Most shotguns from Browning are shipped and sold in cardboard boxes. It seems they get away with that by having the shotgun broken down, where the barrel(s) is/are separated from the receiver/stock.

[Skalinas]

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

A basic 10-gun cabinet from walmart doesnt meet the criteria here. What if i wanted a cheap cabinet for downstairs?

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by aBrowningfan

Most shotguns from Browning are shipped and sold in cardboard boxes. It seems they get away with that by having the shotgun broken down, where the barrel(s) is/are separated from the receiver/stock.

Handguns.

Long guns other than RAW are legal unlocked if they are in a container that is readily identifiable as a gun case.
The federal trigger/gun lock laws do not apply to guns other than handguns, and like handguns, California law simply requires that the lock be provided with the gun at transfer (or the safe affidavit be completed).

dvs762 was given incorrect information. There is no legal requirement for any gun to leave his shop with a DOJ lock installed. The representative that told him this was confusing and merging the requirement that the lock be provided, and California's locked transportation requirements.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Skalinas

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

A basic 10-gun cabinet from walmart doesnt meet the criteria here. What if i wanted a cheap cabinet for downstairs?

You can store your guns downstairs in a cardboard box as long as no minors take them and hurt someone.
IF (and only if) they do, then you would be criminally liable for their actions.

As for the criteria, there are TWO categories under which the safe affidavit may be completed.... not unlike assault weapon laws, one category is "by name" and the other is "by feature"
"By feature" must be used if your safe is not listed by name. "By feature" is a stronger standard, and generally applies to actual gun safes and most all "residential security containers" (which is what any gun safe under $2,000 really is).
The list you linked to is the "by feature"... either meeting all 5 requirements under part (a), or UL/NRTL listed (b)
Here is the "roster" for storage devices:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/roster/a...alue=&make=All

This little 8-gun $130 cabinet is on the list:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-...xoCzyEQAvD_BwE

There are a LOT of storage containers listed in the "by name" list that do not comply with the "by feature" section. Any "gun cabinet" made from sheetmetal would not meet the "by feature" requirements.

[Win231]

Originally Posted by Skalinas

I just got done buying a few more guns and was wondering... maybe someone could expain to me the point of a safe affidavit? I have a couple safes but do all guns have to be stored unloaded and locked inside a “qualified” safe? What if i wanted to store guns in an “unqualified” gun cabinet like a $90 stack-on from walmart? What if i wanted to have a loaded glock 19 under my pillow? A shotgun under the bed? There are no minors in the house, so i am wondering what laws actually govern us Californians with regards to storage of firearms inside the home.

Update: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe

Says here a qualified safe has to meet certain standards. Do we really have to abide by these standards for any gun cabinet?

Re: "There are no minors in the house." What if minors visit unexpectedly while you're not home? Situations like this come up & without prior planning, tragedies happen.

Example: There are no minors in my home, either, but I came home from work & my nephew's friends (ages 5 - 8) were visiting. My sister was in the front house & let them in. When I went upstairs, they were playing with my dog and also playing with the lockbox that contained my loaded Glock. No problem...that's what kids do. They were pushing the buttons & (of course) they couldn't open it. Imagine what would happen if I thought, 'there are no minors in my house, so I don't have to be concerned about safe storage.' An avoidable tragedy would have occurred & it would have been MY fault.
On another occasion, the gardener was applying for a job at my house. He had to bring his kids because his babysitter cancelled.

A quick-access lockbox is well worth the $99.00 for peace of mind and avoiding criminal prosecution as well as a civil case that can bankrupt you. And consider how you'd feel having contributed to the death of a child.

[Skalinas]

Originally Posted by Cokebottle

You can store your guns downstairs in a cardboard box as long as no minors take them and hurt someone.
IF (and only if) they do, then you would be criminally liable for their actions.

As for the criteria, there are TWO categories under which the safe affidavit may be completed.... not unlike assault weapon laws, one category is "by name" and the other is "by feature"
"By feature" must be used if your safe is not listed by name. "By feature" is a stronger standard, and generally applies to actual gun safes and most all "residential security containers" (which is what any gun safe under $2,000 really is).
The list you linked to is the "by feature"... either meeting all 5 requirements under part (a), or UL/NRTL listed (b)
Here is the "roster" for storage devices:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/roster/a...alue=&make=All

This little 8-gun $130 cabinet is on the list:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-...xoCzyEQAvD_BwE

There are a LOT of storage containers listed in the "by name" list that do not comply with the "by feature" section. Any "gun cabinet" made from sheetmetal would not meet the "by feature" requirements.

Ohhh ok this is the clarification i needed. A basic $100 locker doesnt meet the features list but it is ok because it is named....

I was under the impression that any gun storage locker had to have a certain amount of plating, protected hinges, a combination lock rather than a simple key...

My head hurts every time i think about this states gun laws.

[Skalinas]

A quick-access lockbox is well worth the $99.00 for peace of mind and avoiding criminal prosecution as well as a civil case that can bankrupt you. And consider how you'd feel having contributed to the death of a child.

I was under the impression that using a safe without “10,000 combination electronic locks” etc etc was illegal. I was trying to see if it is illegal to be responsible for gun safety by not buying a nice-enough safe for downstairs... as in a $70 handgun lock box from Lowes or a $99 sheet metal gun cabinet from walmart. I always keep them locked up unless i am home then i keep one out for home defense purposes. I have been burglarized once while not home and robbed at gunpoint by gang members, so i am just trying to dot the i’s and cross the t’s, making sure this state cant prosecute me for defending my own life. And as an aside note i am joining the NRA as a lifetime member

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by dvs762

One of my ATF inspectors said that it's part of the child safety law about locks and handguns. I do it also since my liability insurance requires me to do so. I haven't looked up the wording of the law but even if he's wrong I do it anyway just to be sure I'm covered either way. All the FFLs I've worked for or with also said it's required..

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Neither CA nor Federal law require the supplied safety device to be applied - ever.

PC 23635 -

23635.

(a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearm safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice’s roster of approved firearm safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

and 18 USC 922(z)

(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.—
(1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it
shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer
any handgun to any person other than any person licensed
under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a
secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in
section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.

I have heard that at least one gun store in Livermore requires the lock be applied; your San Jose store is unusual, so far as has been reported here at Calguns.

[readysetgo]

The safe affidavit is actually two distinctly separate forms on the same page.

The top portion is for a "safe" and you certify it meets certain listed requirements.

The bottom portion is "certified lock box." You are also supposed to supply a receipt in this instance.

One or the other, not both.

eta: Here's an old post with better detail. And cokebottle already summed it up pretty well, oops.

Originally Posted by readysetgo

You're mixing up #1 and #2.

It's either or NOT 1 AND 2. eta: Actually it could be 1 and 2 but that's not required.

The type of safe you're speaking of without UL RSC certification would fall under #2. If it meets the requirements in (a) - (e), then you sign and date and all is well.

eta: Here's the docs so readers have a visual of what we're talking about.

Affidavit Stating Ownership of a Gun Safe or Lock Box (BOF Form 978)



There are actually three distinct "exemptions" working here with four possible choices/outcomes. There's a couple of qualifications for each.

You can select box #1. The qualifications are: UL RSC cert, fully contains firearms and provides for their secure storage.

You can select box #2. Must meet ALL of the criteria in section (a) - (e). Some examples, fully contains firearms and provides for their secure storage, locking system, boltwork, door hinges and wall thickness characteristics as described.

You could select both box #1 and #2. All of the characteristics of both sections above.

You could select DOJ Certified Lock Box. Here it must be "Certified by DOJ" and you MUST have a receipt for said lock box.
- You can search for lock boxes here: ROSTER OF FIREARM SAFETY DEVICES CERTIFIED FOR SALE

Also note, because of federal law this affidavit does NOT exempt you from requirements for a "lock" when purchasing a handgun. (see Librarians more appropriate explanation) Basically, you can't use this affidavit for handguns.

Originally Posted by Librarian

A refinement: because of BATF intransigence in failing to provide a regulation that recognizes that a safe meets the black-letter Federal law satisfying the "secure gun storage or safety device" requirement of federal law this affidavit does NOT exempt you from requirements for a "lock" when purchasing a handgun.

[dvs762]

Well then I guess that was his opinion then..I still require it due to my insurance. He likely never read the law or just has his own version of it in his head. With all the rules we have to follow we almost need to be lawyers to sell a gun anymore..

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[pacrat]

As others have stated above. A "Ca-DOJ Safe Affidavit" is a legal exemption to all Ca DOJ locking device requirements. PERIOD

And there are finer points of the Federal Child Safety Lock Act of 2005. That have as of yet. Not been discussed in this thread.

Nowhere in CSLA of 2005 does it say that it must be the FFL that provides the CSL. Only that one is provided at the time of transfer. Can just as legally be provided by the transferee.

The quote below supplied by Librarian was as written in 2005.

18 USC 922(z)

(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.—
(1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it
shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer
any handgun to any person other than any person licensed
under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a
secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in
section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.

But the wording was changed in Dec 2008. By the quoted letter from BATFE Chief of Firearms Programs below. [bolded and underlined in next to last paragraph] It was softened so to speak, from "provide" to "present". And again, it is not stated who is "liable" for the lock being "present". Just that there must be one.

Most of the MISINFORMATION spread as FUD regarding Ca FSL and Fed CSLA. Is fabricated and spread by LGS counter monkeys trying to cash in on selling un-needed and extra-legal cheap chinese locks at exorbitant prices.

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives
Washington, DC 20226
DEC 8, 2008
903010:LHB
5300

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx:

This is in response to your letter to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In your letter, you asked if the California State Form, Affidavit Stating Ownership of an Acceptable Gun Safe or Lock Box. is an acceptable form for customers in lieu of purchasing an 800+-pound full safe.

As you may know, a major mission of ATF is enforcement of the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), its subsequent amendments, and other Federal firearms laws. A significant part of the GCA concerns the requirements pertaining to the manufacture, importation, distribution, possession, and sale of firearms.

Section 921 (a)(34)(C) of Title 18 of the United States Code (U.S.C.) defines a secure gun storage or safety device as a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm, and that designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, combination, or other similar means. 18 U.S.C. 922(z), regarding secure gun storage or safety device, states in part that it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device for that handgun at the time of the firearm sales transaction.

The form used by the State of California Department of Justice with the standards set forth by section 977.50 of the California Code of Regulations may comply with California laws but does not comply with the laws and regulations set forth by ATF. This form is not an ATF form and is not an acceptable form in lieu of presenting a secure gun storage or safety device at the time of each handgun sales transaction.


We regret that our response was not more positive. If you should have any further questions, we invite you to review our Web site at www.atf.gov. You may also contact our office at (202) 648-7090.

Sincerely yours,


Raymond G. Rowley
Chief, Firearms Programs Division

JM2c

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by pacrat

Most of the MISINFORMATION spread as FUD regarding Ca FSL and Fed CSLA. Is fabricated and spread by LGS counter monkeys trying to cash in on selling un-needed and extra-legal cheap chinese locks at exorbitant prices.

Unfortunately, that is the guy that you are dealing with for the transfer, and he believes what he believes, even though it's wrong.

With a CCW, I am exempt from the FSC and safe-handling demonstration, yet I've done 2 purchases at different FFLs where the employee made me do the safe-handling demonstration stating that "he wants to keep his job"

NBD, but you play by their rules or you take your business elsewhere.
If it's a PPT, they won't want the business anyways.

[4GLOCK30]

Many guns come with a lock now. I have never been required to buy one when I have purchased pistols or rifle in the last 15 years

There may be some gun shops self proclaiming they MUST sell you one for you to leave the store with it. BS

Just bring your own

FWIW the rifle I just picked up a few weeks ago a Turners had one included with it. Store never said I had to put it on before leaving the store.

It joined the several other "gun" locks I have in a box

Only locks I use now are those small cheap "TSA" luggage ones to lock zippers on my range or gun bag when "transporting" them

Several of my guns remain loaded in safe as do ALL the guns placed within the house for HD. Unloaded gun is worthless when you need it.

I have no children in the house nor do any come here. If I ever have Grand kids then there will not be any loaded guns that are NOT in the safe

I don't need the State telling me WTF I can do with guns in my house....in the words of Charlton Heston , "they will have to pry it from my cold dead hands"

[FilmGuy]

Have purchased 2 used handguns from a local gun shop in the past few months and have been told I needed to purchase a lock both times. Like everyone else, I have a pile of cable locks still in their wrappers from other transactions. If it is indeed legal to bring your own locking device in when you are picking up, I would love to see the statute I could print out and provide to the LGS so I could quit wasting $6-$10 each purchase. BTW, I have a CA approved storage cabinet.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by FilmGuy

Have purchased 2 used handguns from a local gun shop in the past few months and have been told I needed to purchase a lock both times. Like everyone else, I have a pile of cable locks still in their wrappers from other transactions. If it is indeed legal to bring your own locking device in when you are picking up, I would love to see the statute I could print out and provide to the LGS so I could quit wasting $6-$10 each purchase. BTW, I have a CA approved storage cabinet.

No, you can't bring your own UNLESS

b) - you have a safe, complete the safe affidavit, and the FFL will accept your bring-in to satisfy the Federal law on handguns - which they should do, but seems like many will not.

or

c) - you have a receipt for the lock dated no more than 30 days before the pick-up date.

PC 26365

23635.

(a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearm safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice’s roster of approved firearm safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.




(b) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:

(1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the standards set forth in Section 23650. Gun safes shall not be required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards without appearing on the Department of Justice roster.

(2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the firearms dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of purchase with the dealer’s record of sales of firearms.

(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:

(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.

(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.

(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer, which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.

(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in paragraphs (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.

(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealer’s record of sales of firearms.

[Skalinas]

Im still trying to wrap my head around the whole... “you need to have a safe or a gun lock but technically its ok to not lock it up while its in your house except if you expect a minor to show up”

[broadside]

Originally Posted by Skalinas

Im still trying to wrap my head around the whole... “you need to have a safe or a gun lock but technically its ok to not lock it up while its in your house except if you expect a minor to show up”

Most people are trying to wrap their heads around any of these laws the government thinks make a difference, not just that one

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Skalinas

Im still trying to wrap my head around the whole... “you need to have a safe or a gun lock but technically its ok to not lock it up while its in your house except if you expect a minor to show up”

The law is that IF a minor has REASONABLE access to your firearms AND they cause property damage, injury, or death, the gun owner is criminally liable for the actions of the minor.
The USE of the DOJ-Approved trigger lock, lock box, or safe satisfies the requirement to prevent criminal exposure of the gun owner. There will still be a civil suit, so hold onto your wallet, but at least you won't be in jail, so you can continue working to pay off the judgment.

So the nannies require that you have a lock when you buy a gun, whether minors have reasonable access to your home or not.