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  #41  
Old 12-02-2016, 8:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadcoyote View Post
Yeah, I know at matches 1911's always run perfect and the glock guys are always cleaning their guns and mags between stages.
And the Glock guys are not winning much either. There is a huge difference between a match gun and a service pistol. Do you think Indy cars would be able to traverse regular streets without blowing a tire etc.?

Also, for the record, the 1911/2011 guys are cleaning mags not firearms between stages.

Your comparison doesn't really work.
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  #42  
Old 12-02-2016, 9:01 AM
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You know you can fire a striker gun without the FRAME or TRIGGER?

If you have the slide and the barrel, you can fire a striker gun... it's basically a zip gun. And that's whey plastic framed guns are all striker fired. Apart from the recoil, there is no stress on the frame at all.

And yeah, get some grit in front of your hammer and see how well that works.

However, i'm guessing this entire thread is yet another "plastic guns suck" troll thread. Enjoy.
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  #43  
Old 12-02-2016, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
It did seem the glock performed the best of all strikers tested in the dirt mud and water. The reviewer "MAC" on youtube mentioned the lack of striker cover on the VP9 and TP handgun. Glock engineered that cover for a reason.

If you are wearing a non-shielded striker weapon on your hip and hunting in the rain will the guns striker hydraulic and fail to detonate the primer?

I would buy a glock but they have the ergo of a brick. I cant tell you how many times I have gone to the gun store and picked up different models of the glock and just hated the feel and fit. The trigger guard scrapes on the bottom of my finger and I wont mention my complaints of the controls. I checked out the gen 4 as well. It just doesnt work for me. The aim/point is awful.

On the flip side I picked up an VP9 and it was like nanobots had molded it just for my hand. The HK is just perfection. I carry 2 USP's now and have never had them fail. My USP's ride with me in the car and sit on the floor of the trunk at times. Plenty of grit and sand in the guns and they both run flawlessly.

The VP9 was recently on sale at palmetto for $419 during black friday. By the time I did the research it was sold out, go figure!

Thats kinda how this post came about. Didnt mean to start a AR/AK Hammer/Striker war.
Just wondered what others thought.

And to the guy that thinks the MIL always buys whats best for our guys. Sheesh.... Soft body Humvees and crappy body armor come to mind. Ask any Viet Vet what they thought of that Era ar-15 as well. Osprey anyone?
FMC Tank. That is all that needs to be said about that. Killing our Boys with inferior parts.
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  #44  
Old 12-02-2016, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
And the Glock guys are not winning much either. There is a huge difference between a match gun and a service pistol. Do you think Indy cars would be able to traverse regular streets without blowing a tire etc.?

Also, for the record, the 1911/2011 guys are cleaning mags not firearms between stages.

Your comparison doesn't really work.
You're kidding, right? Look at production division USPSA/IPSC. It's all Glock and CZ-75 SP01s on the podium.
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  #45  
Old 12-02-2016, 9:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
You're kidding, right? Look at production division USPSA/IPSC. It's all Glock and CZ-75 SP01s on the podium.
Some divisions are set up for certain types of guns.
Both of you are right/wrong!
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2016, 9:12 AM
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I was going to argue more, but decided that I don't really care if OP hates striker fired guns. More power to him!
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2016, 9:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
Also, for the record, the 1911/2011 guys are cleaning mags not firearms between stages.

Your comparison doesn't really work.
So what happens when they DON'T clean the mags? 1911's have crappy mags? That is part of the gun IMHO. A pretty important part, too.
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  #48  
Old 12-02-2016, 1:53 PM
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You wouldn't think the 2011/unlimited guys would need to clean mags as they don't have to drop nearly as many mags as us production guys do.

I went from CZ to Glock for production, and in most situations prefer a striker fired handgun. Only problem I have ever had was when I went to too light of spring.

I sold off my HK, Sigs and now only have one CZ and 1911 left. All fine guns, but mainly sticking with one platform now for anything but the range.
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  #49  
Old 12-03-2016, 5:28 AM
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"They chose a striker gun with a sand and water cover shielding the striker and water cups to keep the striker from hydraulicking."



What is a "sand and water cover". Never heard of such a thing. The term was never used in the Armorers course. Sounds to me like someone is inventing terms to support his position.

Last edited by 003; 12-03-2016 at 5:38 AM..
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  #50  
Old 12-03-2016, 7:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DArBad View Post
Sorry OP, but I totally disagree with you. The striker fired handguns are NO MORE susceptible to failures from the elements than the hammer fired weapons. To the contrary.......they are more forgiving.

I've owned a Glock 17, a Glock 21, and now a Springfield XD 45 Tactical. I've also owned and shot Smith 686, Ruger GP100s (2), Colt 1911s(4), Springfield 1911s(4), and Kimber 1911s(3), Beretta 92FS and M9.

The striker fired are EQUAL to if not MORE forgiving of dirt, abuse, and lack of maintenance.............BASED ON MY ACTUAL EXPERIENCE.
^What he said!
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  #51  
Old 12-03-2016, 7:45 AM
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You lost me at ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
....
The complicated mechanism for the striker .......
Can't get much less complicated.
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  #52  
Old 12-03-2016, 9:11 AM
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G19 has no flaws. If you want to design the most perfect pistol start with a G19 and change nothing. Done.
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  #53  
Old 12-03-2016, 9:52 AM
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Originally Posted by romadant View Post
G19 has no flaws. If you want to design the most perfect pistol start with a G19 and change nothing. Done.
I actually prefer a 17 due to the grip length.
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  #54  
Old 12-03-2016, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 003 View Post
"They chose a striker gun with a sand and water cover shielding the striker and water cups to keep the striker from hydraulicking."



What is a "sand and water cover". Never heard of such a thing. The term was never used in the Armorers course. Sounds to me like someone is inventing terms to support his position.
He means keeping your gun in a ziplock bag.
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  #55  
Old 12-03-2016, 10:07 AM
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No, just the striker-fied ones with a striker are flawed.
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  #56  
Old 12-03-2016, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
I actually prefer a 17 due to the grip length.
Blasphemy!!!!
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  #57  
Old 12-03-2016, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
It did seem the glock performed the best of all strikers tested in the dirt mud and water. The reviewer "MAC" on youtube mentioned the lack of striker cover on the VP9 and TP handgun. Glock engineered that cover for a reason.

If you are wearing a non-shielded striker weapon on your hip and hunting in the rain will the guns striker hydraulic and fail to detonate the primer?

I would buy a glock but they have the ergo of a brick. I cant tell you how many times I have gone to the gun store and picked up different models of the glock and just hated the feel and fit. The trigger guard scrapes on the bottom of my finger and I wont mention my complaints of the controls. I checked out the gen 4 as well. It just doesnt work for me. The aim/point is awful.

On the flip side I picked up an VP9 and it was like nanobots had molded it just for my hand. The HK is just perfection. I carry 2 USP's now and have never had them fail. My USP's ride with me in the car and sit on the floor of the trunk at times. Plenty of grit and sand in the guns and they both run flawlessly.

The VP9 was recently on sale at palmetto for $419 during black friday. By the time I did the research it was sold out, go figure!

Thats kinda how this post came about. Didnt mean to start a AR/AK Hammer/Striker war.
Just wondered what others thought.

And to the guy that thinks the MIL always buys whats best for our guys. Sheesh.... Soft body Humvees and crappy body armor come to mind. Ask any Viet Vet what they thought of that Era ar-15 as well. Osprey anyone?
Didn't the glock out perform the sig legion in those test on Military Arms Channel? granted, it didn't have the water locking that the M&P and VP9 did, but the rest of the elements defeated the sig none the less. Striker did fine over hammer there.

ALSO, you are basing the argument discussion on a sample size of "one" per video. Many of the replies to MACs video on the M&P show plenty of them shooting after being completely submerged in water.

In any case, I think the 1911 will fare the least out of all the platforms. Especially in the sand/dirt test
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  #58  
Old 12-03-2016, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowhawk012 View Post
Didn't the glock out perform the sig legion in those test on Military Arms Channel? granted, it didn't have the water locking that the M&P and VP9 did, but the rest of the elements defeated the sig none the less. Striker did fine over hammer there.

ALSO, you are basing the argument discussion on a sample size of "one" per video. Many of the replies to MACs video on the M&P show plenty of them shooting after being completely submerged in water.

In any case, I think the 1911 will fare the least out of all the platforms. Especially in the sand/dirt test
So is it a poor choice to buy a VP9 for a place where it rains 4-5 months per year? Seem the hk didnt handle the water well.
I wish the glock had the design and ergo of the hk vp9, id be all over it.
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  #59  
Old 12-03-2016, 6:55 PM
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This thread is hilarious. Got to love internet commandos.
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  #60  
Old 12-03-2016, 8:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
So is it a poor choice to buy a VP9 for a place where it rains 4-5 months per year? Seem the hk didnt handle the water well.
I wish the glock had the design and ergo of the hk vp9, id be all over it.


Will you be open carrying it? Will you walk over large bodies of water multiple times a day? Probably not. Therefore chances of water lodging into the striker channel are slim to none for the average civilian trying to use a vp9 as their primary defensive weapon.

Besides. In the recent MAC retest of the vp9 passed the water dunk. So the hydro locking issue is really a moot point. Unless you got copious amounts of sand or mud that thick around you at all times, you should be fine IMO

https://youtu.be/WMDMAEwjAeI
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  #61  
Old 12-03-2016, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
You pick a 100yr gun to make your point. Why not cap and ball?
Umm
Because the 100 year old gun has been getting the job done for...
Wait for it...
100 years!!

There must be something going for a design that nearly every pistol manufacturer makes.
re: Striker vs hammer pistols
ANY gun can fail when abused.
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  #62  
Old 12-04-2016, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
can hydraulic
Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
from hydraulicking
Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
hydraulic
You have no idea what the word 'hydraulic' really means do you?
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  #63  
Old 12-04-2016, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
You know you can fire a striker gun without the FRAME or TRIGGER?

If you have the slide and the barrel, you can fire a striker gun... it's basically a zip gun. And that's whey plastic framed guns are all striker fired. Apart from the recoil, there is no stress on the frame at all.

You're probably right about less stress in a striker fired gun frame, but you are not right about all "plastic" (polymer) guns being striker fired, there are quite a few external hammer guns with polymer frames, such as the H&K USP which is a fantastic gun.



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  #64  
Old 12-04-2016, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
You're probably right about less stress in a striker fired gun frame, but you are not right about all "plastic" (polymer) guns being striker fired, there are quite a few external hammer guns with polymer frames, such as the H&K USP which is a fantastic gun.



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There are also the Sig 2022 and Beretta storm, both polymer frame and DA/SA unlike most polymer frame guns.
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  #65  
Old 12-04-2016, 12:45 PM
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Someone has not been around firearms much though he is internet wise he has many years of real hands on learning to negotiate. Good luck!
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  #66  
Old 12-04-2016, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
You have no idea what the word 'hydraulic' really means do you?

He probably meant hydrolock. The striker and cups are a quasi piston.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock


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  #67  
Old 12-04-2016, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
T
One huge issue I saw was that the striker fired weapons need to have the trigger pulled before you could disassemble but you could NOT pull the trigger and the striker remained cocked keeping the weapon from being taken apart and cleaned.

.
Hmmm, never had to do that with any of M&P's. I guess they are flawed as you suggest.
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  #68  
Old 12-04-2016, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by uparmor View Post

One huge issue I saw was that the striker fired weapons need to have the trigger pulled before you could disassemble but you could NOT pull the trigger and the striker remained cocked keeping the weapon from being taken apart and cleaned.
As mentioned already. You should familiarize yourself with different models as some don't require squeezing the trigger to disassemble. S&W M&Ps don't require it. Springfield XDMs don't require it.
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  #69  
Old 12-04-2016, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
You're kidding, right? Look at production division USPSA/IPSC. It's all Glock and CZ-75 SP01s on the podium.
You know that there are no 1911/2011's on the USPSA production roster right? Actually there are no sao guns that are on the roster.

This thread is is full of...and everyone entertained the op for 4 pages of....this is another one of those great troll threads right?
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  #70  
Old 12-04-2016, 7:33 PM
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I did hear that they are going to start a cap and ball division for uspsa. Mostly steel targets, similar to cowboy action shoots. Has anyone heard about holster placement in relation to powder bag and balls. This division could be a great throw back division. But like dead coyote said , bear grease or other natural grease like this are going to be a hot commodity.
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  #71  
Old 12-04-2016, 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
He probably meant hydrolock. The striker and cups are a quasi piston.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock


.
I'm sure that's what the OP meant, but that's not what the OP wrote; at least 3 times. I think this might, maybe, just perhaps, kill the OP's credibility in discussing the mechanics of anything.
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  #72  
Old 12-07-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I'm sure that's what the OP meant, but that's not what the OP wrote; at least 3 times. I think this might, maybe, just perhaps, kill the OP's credibility in discussing the mechanics of anything.
Talk about killing cred......sheesh!

Re: Hydraulic lock of diesel Engine (OR Hydraulic FOR SHORT, WHICH IS WHAT I SAID, PLEASE TAKE FOOT OUT OF MOUTH)

https://forums.cat.com/t5/Maintenanc...gine/td-p/2659

Maybe Caterpillar corporation doesn't know what they are talking about either.

Last edited by uparmor; 12-07-2016 at 12:52 PM..
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  #73  
Old 12-07-2016, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
Talk about killing cred......sheesh!
Not my fault you continue to do so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
Re: Hydraulic lock of diesel Engine (OR Hydraulic FOR SHORT, WHICH IS WHAT I SAID, PLEASE TAKE FOOT OUT OF MOUTH)
No, that's not what you said, you kept referring to the 'verb' hydraulic, as in to hydraulic with the gerrund form being 'hydraulicking'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
https://forums.cat.com/t5/Maintenanc...gine/td-p/2659

Maybe Caterpillar corporation doesn't know what they are talking about either.
Did you fail to notice that a) There doesn't seem to be a contributor on that linked page from the Caterpillar Corporation and b) the term used was 'hydraulic lock', where hydraulic is not a verb but is a an adjective describing how something was locked.

You errantly used poor wording either for lack of understanding or for laziness, either way, you appeared ignorant of the very subject of which you were speaking as a result.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe hydraulic is a verb somewhere.

Let us consult that good old fashioned source of wisdom Webster's Dictionary:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict..._source=jsonld

Definition of hydraulic
1
: operated, moved, or effected by means of water
2
a : of or relating to hydraulics <hydraulic engineer>
b : of or relating to water or other liquid in motion <hydraulic erosion>
3
: operated by the resistance offered or the pressure transmitted when a quantity of liquid (as water or oil) is forced through a comparatively small orifice or through a tube <hydraulic brakes>
4
: hardening or setting under water <hydraulic cement>
hydraulically play \-li-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

Nope, still an adjective, perhaps the Oxford English Dictionary has what you're looking for?
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hydraulic

Nope, adjective there too.

Perhaps you speak of it in a more colloquial manner? Let's check urban dictionary: http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...=search-action

There is a verb form of the word 'hydraulic' there, but it's in reference to drinking, and not in reference to hydraulically locking a system.

Sooooo, about that 'foot in mouth' syndrome you were referring too...
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  #74  
Old 12-07-2016, 1:49 PM
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They're all flawed because they're all polymer.
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  #75  
Old 12-09-2016, 4:58 PM
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wsmc27 wsmc27 is offline
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Originally Posted by deadcoyote View Post
Yeah, I know at matches 1911's always run perfect and the glock guys are always cleaning their guns and mags between stages.
This made me lol
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  #76  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:50 AM
billyremo billyremo is offline
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Originally Posted by peter95 View Post
Every pistol will technically have a flaw. Put something between the hammer it won't fire as well. striker fire same thing, but even with these, it does not mean the pistol is flawed or anything wrong with it.

Some are more reliable than others. Does the design allow grit to easily make itself in the pistol to make it less reliable?

sure the arex showed to be reliable in those conditions, but can also not mean it's a better pistol than the others.

I would worry more if the gun constantly failed in normal conditions than in worst conditions that people put them through torture tests.
I agree. Every pistol will technically have a flaw, it is inevitable. But that is also the beauty of it.
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Old 12-10-2016, 3:34 PM
KillZone45 KillZone45 is offline
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Maybe, but I hate hammer fired guns, prefer striker fired all day.
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  #78  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:47 PM
Troy35 Troy35 is offline
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Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
To start......

I get it that most of us will not drop our carry weapon in mud, sand or water. I get it.

But, having said that it seems to me that the striker fired weapons have a glaring flaw. They fail to go bang and have multiple issues when something other than air/ammo is introduced to the weapon. Also I have been hunting and hiking and got my weapons very dirty and wet.

The striker, which is open on many brands, can hydraulic and fail to punch the primer.

The striker can get sand or grit in it and same as above.

The complicated mechanism for the striker may get grit in it and fail to work.

I watched multiple videos of Glocks, HK's, TP9's, etc failing to fire after dropped in water, sand and mud.

On the other hand a hammer fired Rex-Zero 1 dunked in water, sand, dirt, and mud ran 100%.

One huge issue I saw was that the striker fired weapons need to have the trigger pulled before you could disassemble but you could NOT pull the trigger and the striker remained cocked keeping the weapon from being taken apart and cleaned.

For the record I was going to buy an HK VP9 recently and started doing research on the non-hammer platform. I currently carry an HK USP 45 full size and an HK P2000 9mm. Both have been 100% reliable but not dropped in mud.

Not trying to start a fight over platforms just wanted to get more informed opinions before I may or may not buy a striker fired HK.
Are you serious?? Millions of striker fired pistols and hammer fired pistols have been produced and served all manner people well. That being said no firearm is perfect and can have problems. However, if striker fired guns were somehow more "flawed" than other guns the majority of law enforcement agencies around the country would not be using them.

Maybe you should just stick to revolvers if you want a gun that will work when you throw it in the mud...or wait, they may fail in that environment too.

Normally, I ignore these stupid posts. With the number of striker fired guns out there and the decades of reliable service records your question is ridiculous.

It's not like asking "Hey, I heard a Honda had a transmission that failed once when the owner drained all the fluid out and drove it down the highway. Should I buy a Toyota instead?" That would be a more intelligent conclusion than you are trying to make.

No, your question is more like, "Hey, I heard Honda had a transmission that failed once when the owner drained all the fuild out and drove it down the highway. Should I drive a a horse and buggy because horses don't have transmission?"

Seriously, if you aren't comfortable with striker fired guns don't buy them.

FWIW, I own striker fired guns and non-striker fired guns and enjoy shooting all of them.

These dumb, loaded questions are scourge of every open forum out there! They change nobody's opinion on anything and spark no constructive conversation either.
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  #79  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:55 PM
essjay essjay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uparmor View Post
One huge issue I saw was that the striker fired weapons need to have the trigger pulled before you could disassemble but you could NOT pull the trigger and the striker remained cocked keeping the weapon from being taken apart and cleaned.
Not all striker-fired handguns require a trigger pull for disassembly. The Sig P320, for example, requires you to drop the mag, lock the slide back, and then flip a lever on the side of the frame.
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  #80  
Old 12-11-2016, 5:05 PM
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ElDub1950 ElDub1950 is offline
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This thread needs a sidetrack of striker fired .45 vs hammer fired 9mm.
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