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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#121
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I cant believe this is even a debate. Scary that its not common sense.
Treat every firearm like its loaded. Alot of the last words people have heard, or said were "dont worry, it's not loaded." My unlce who taught me firearm safety would literally knock me on my *** without warning if I ever handled a firearm without following that rule. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk |
#122
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Not in SoCal, but up North we used to get 4' to 12' on a typical winter.
Being civil and doing what one can to get a positive outcome has very little to do with the weather, and a lot to do with being a mature adult. Do you want an argument, or results? |
#123
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No time for tact when a loaded gun is pointed at your buddy's head. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#124
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The MYOB crowd is inexperienced and ignorant as safety always takes precedence over MYOB in this scenario. Gun safety is everybody's business.
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#125
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He was caught making a mistake and he knew it. He had a choice: own up or play it off. He hose the latter. Good on you for not just letting him brush it off! He can either learn now or learn after a negligent discharge.
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#126
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I totally get that, and to some degree I agree. That said, this is how habits are born. If he wasn't corrected he'd probably go on to *always* lay the gun sideways, never knowing any better, until one time it's not actually clear. The important thing here is the distinction between simply being safe and demonstrating safety to other shooters Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#127
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If someone sweeps me, I'd try to confront them amicably, but I'm not above shouting someone down for pointing a gun at me. I don't care if it's unloaded.
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My AR is 7.62x39, so that if/when we get invaded, I can shoot their ammo back at them! Quote:
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#128
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#130
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That is signature worthy.
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If you want change you have to put in your 2 cents, you can't just sit on the sidelines and whine. |
#133
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When in the hands of careless individuals like in this case, yes, it just might.
If you want to puff your chest out and feel invincible, go for it. You just may save a life by stopping a bullet before it hits the guy in the next bay down from you.
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Single fin mentality |
#134
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the state mandates we go through this standard safety check even if in doing so we have to violate basic firearm safety in the process.
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#136
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when I arrive at angeles range rifle side, I drive past about 30 rifle muzzles sitting on the back bench that are not checked by RO's. they only check the rifles on the line during cease fire. I worry about those ones some times. not sure if theres a rule on what direction they should be facing, but usually they are all facing out towards the parking lot.
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Have a good day! |
#137
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It really is simple and straight forward range protocol. Ceasefire called: clear the firearm (unload and remove any magazine), action open, muzzle down range, step back away from the table/shooting line, and do not approach the table/shooting line again until the "all clear/resume shooting" is called.
Now, that said, there are different ways to approach a guy who is not handling his firearm in a safe manner. First, you can say something along the lines of, "Hey, dummy get the damn muzzle pointed down range and get that action open, geez!" Another approach is to say in a helpful tone, sort of like you're cluing him in on something, "Hey, the range officers here are a bit tight on safety stuff, you should open the action and have the muzzle pointed down range." Now, if the range officers at the range are not supportive of safety, you might speak to the owner of the range (the one who has to pay for the insurance and take the legal hit if there is an "accident" on the range). Finally, if the range is not enforcing tight safety rules, consider finding another range. Just my $ .02, FWIW
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#138
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Last edited by Denver Dick; 11-30-2016 at 6:43 PM.. |
#139
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The "this is no big deal" crowd are falling into "the normalization of deviance". This is where we take a behavior that we should not do and execute it. When nothing happens it builds complacency until eventually the deviation from what should be the normal and acceptable behavior is replaced with the deviant behavior. This is bad. The idea that nothing happened that one time I did something wrong should not lead us to believe that we'll get away with the same thing every time we do it.
Every day I take my CCW pistol and store it away. If I get complacent with safety rules it may take decades for the bad behavior to catch up with me, but eventually it will. Deviant behavior on firearms safety should be treated exactly like that. It is an undesirable behavior that should be corrected and driven OUT! |
#140
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I've seen some horror shows during the safety test so I don't think it's pointless but after a while it does get repetitive.
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#142
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#143
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#144
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I'm glad all you folks got to tell all your horror stories, but I gotta tell ya, you spend 8 hours a day 5or 6 days a week at a range and you'll see a hell of a lot . I can't really blame the RSO for not getting his panties in a twist for an unloaded pistol slightly askew.
Flame away,,,,,
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#145
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#146
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Another violation will be finger on trigger but that's okay because the magazine is out, slide is lock and flag is inserted.
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Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#147
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I agree with the OP. Doesn't matter if range was clear. The weapons should be cleared pointing down range. Before RSO goes down range he should make sure all weapons are cleared and safe. I had a guy come off the firing line at a indoor range last week, with a uncased rifle muzzle slashing everyone. Before I could say something the RSO came in and set him straight. I have seen people do som e stupid **** at public ranges before.
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#148
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What to do? Pistol NOT pointing downrange!
To all gun owners that value safety, and one that you can never take for granted or be complacent with nor justifying with 'rational' excuses (thinking you are smart), etc. I thank you...
The initial set of replies actually made me disappointed that the Safety Rules are actually taken for granted based on circumstances - thinking, is this is what gun ownership and responsibility has become (or is)...? However, there are those that intelligently put forward that you can never really compromise with safety, at the very least for the reason, whatever rationale could be your very last (again, as they say, "assumptions are the mother of f@ck &p$...!"). Cheers! PS: I have decided that I will be enrolling in an NRA RSO class.... You can never really stop learning! "Safety first!" is a priority as much as getting better at shooting (at least for me, IDPA & GSSF)... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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#149
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But its ok because ROs ensure that nobody goes near the firing line. Is this a violation? Wouod you agree its the same, IDENTICAL potential danger? Would you agree that both scenarios require something that is forbidden during line changes, specifically, someone fingering the weapons? I am asking a sincere question, not calling anyone a name. It seems to me that the situations are identical, and ive never seen a thread where someone complained that rifles were pointed at them during line changes.
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#150
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The RSOs are designated safety people to keep everything safe, organize & order. The person on my left and on my right is not my RSO so they don't get to point the gun in any other direction other than Basic Safety and Range rules. If one or more Basic Safety and Range rules are violated every day and those people are not corrected because hey "the guns are safe, unloaded, blah blah blah, they will develop these deadly bad habits and that one chance of hurting or killing someone is just too high of a price to pay. Anyway, how hard is it to just turn the gun downrange and apologize. How Hard is That??????? Are we there to have fun or act like tough mean macho man and disregard safety rules because nobody can tell us what to do and beyond correction?
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Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan Last edited by Barang; 12-01-2016 at 9:00 AM.. |
#151
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Both were during times when shooters were instructed to move back from the line and not handle weapons. I'd really like you to address the specific point: during every line change at every range, firearms are put in the same condition and intentionally pointed down range, and then the shooters move in front of the muzzles. Both scenarios require the same prohibited action to be objectionable: someone fingering a weapon during a cease fire. Fingering a weapon during a cease fire is dangerous no matter if the weapon is pointed down range or to the side, with the possible miniscule exception of a berm to stop a projectile that misses everyone close. Right?
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#152
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When all basic safety rules in addition to Range rules are met, shooters are behind the Red Line, RSO are done checking weapons and Green light is given to go downrange, then I can feel confident that it is safe to change or repair targets. The RSOs are designated safety people to keep everything safe, organize & order. The person on my left and on my right is not my RSO so they don't get to point the gun in any other direction other than Basic Safety and Range rules. If one or more Basic Safety and Range rules are violated every day and those people are not corrected because hey "the guns are safe, unloaded, blah blah blah, they will develop these deadly bad habits and that one chance of hurting or killing someone is just too high of a price to pay.
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Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#153
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Wow... I'm shocked at how huge this thread has grown. It's a simple issue of "always pointed in a safe direction" REGARDLESS of if the action is open. Pointing into the lane next to you is NOT a safe direction. How can anyone, with a straight face, defend pointing your weapon in an unsafe direction?
SMH (And as for above, yes, once the RSO has cleared the firing line it is safe to check targets, but an RSO will never clear a line if the gun is pointed sideways.) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#154
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#155
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It doesn't matter who the ROs are, do you agree or disagree that, during a cease fire, where shooters are instructed to move back from the line and not handle weapons, shooters move in front of the muzzles of the whole line, have no objection? Why is that different than it pointing to the side? The RO here didn't correct it. Are we supposed to pretend that ROS have some sixth sense? Safety is everyone's responsibility. If an RO was permitting unsafe handling, you'd say something or leave, right? I'm not saying the guy was correct or incorrect, but it's interesting, and undeniable, that every person on this thread has moved downrange with a whole line of weapons pointed at them, and I've never seen anyone voice concern. It's even more interesting that you're trying to distinguish between the two scenarios. There was an RO at the ops range, and he didn't seem to mind the issue. Does that, alone, make it safe or unsafe? It is what it is. If an RO told me to go ahead and load up while people were down range, that's not made safe because the RO said it.
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Last edited by Citadelgrad87; 12-01-2016 at 10:21 AM.. |
#156
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No, it's not safe because it's a safe direction, it's safe because actions are open, weapons are unloaded, and nobody is allowed to handle them during the line break. Just like op. In fact, op asking the guy to handle the weapon while the RO was downrange...is unsafe and wouldn't be permitted at ranges I frequent.
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#157
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No, It's safe because an RSO checked the gun and said so. An open action could still have a hangfire in the chamber, or [insert possibility here]. Pointing your gun into another lane IS NEVER SAFE. Period. I don't care if it's H loaded - it's not a safe direction. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#158
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#159
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I'm not pushing for some change, so that I can leave a firearm pointed to the side rather than downrange, but it's interesting. Handling the weapon during a cease fire to change where it's pointed is likely statistically more dangerous than leaving it alone, right? When you are carrying firearms to the range from the car, cased weapons, are they always pointed in a safe direction? This can quickly devolve to ridiculous. Firearms aren't "always" pointed in safe directions. SafER, sure, but safe? Now, would I trust Joe Schmo to tell me, "relax, I checked it, it's unloaded"? Of course not. I am very conscious of safety rules, I speak up when I see something. It's just an interesting point here, apparently there was some line inspection by the RO before he moved down range, either that or he's an idiot. So hypothetically, if the RO inspected this weapon, confirmed clear, mag out, action open, is this any more dangerous than if it was pointing down range while he was hanging targets?
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#160
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Citadelgrad - you misunderstood... I agree a gun is safe when the RSO says so.
I don't agree a gun is safe just because some jackass says "don't worry about it; the action is open" while it's POINTED IN MY LANE". Big difference. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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