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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#41
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Could be. Moving back towards the firing line and handling a firearm while the RO was downrange would be a much more severe range rule violation than what he had done. I know I wouldn't have touched it while the RO was downrange.
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__________________________________________________ _____________ “When you're taking flak you know you're over the target” |
#42
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This.. OP must feel very uncomfortable when he walks down range with 100 guns pointing at him during cease fire..
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#43
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What to do? Pistol NOT pointing downrange!
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Agree. And I would also explain to the OP that I would change the muzzle as soon as the RO signaled that it was clear. It is just a common courtesy. It happened to me a few times at the range and I just packed up and left the range. On my way out, I notified the RO. |
#44
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Safety and commonn courtesy. How hard is it to just turn the gun in the safest direction rather than making excuses? Some people are just stubborn and jerk!
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Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#45
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When I have any issue or any thing that I don't like at the range. I just pack my stuff up and leave, before I leave the range I will swing by and tell the Range master the reason of my leaving.
Never have any discussion with anybody at the range, there is a dummy born every minute and there is an *** hole born every minute also. Be all of the ranges rules : ALL the muzzle MUST point to down range regardless the gun load or not. Last edited by newbie1234; 11-27-2016 at 9:23 PM.. |
#46
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I was at a LGS and there were a bunch of guns in the case pointed at me. I told the store manager but he didn't seem to care. I'll never shop there again.
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#47
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^This. Anyone who doesn't leave such an unsafe situation must be a future Darwin award winner. Their slides arent even open. Soooo dangerous.
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__________________________________________________ _____________ “When you're taking flak you know you're over the target” |
#48
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well, I can't speak for all of the cutesy replies, but I can say this as a former RSO/OIC, range coach, marksmanship instructor, etc.;
follow the posted rules and RSO instructions or gtfo, period.. when we cease fire for target scoring/pasting, we clear the line.. shooters check and show clear, lay weapon on the deck, muzzle pointing down range, ejection port up, bolt locked to the rear, no magazine in the well.. about face, one step forward, march, parade rest while staff goes down range for whatever they need to do.. I realize civilian ranges have different processes but I'm sure muzzle discipline and no weapon handling rules are pretty dang close.. if a shooter can't follow a simple command to point their weapon in the same direction as everyone else, what other safety rule are they not following? as a shooter, I'm not wasting any time trying to figure this guy out, I'm assuming a loaded gun is pointing in my direction.. yah, I'm happy to have words with anyone that wants to dispute the rules.. not shy there in the least.. if I have to have words with the RSO to get your attention, so be it.. you want to give me the stink eye and call me names on calguns, so be it.. you want to grow up and act like an adult while conducting yourself on a live range, so be it..
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I started out with nothing - and I still have most of it |
#49
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__________________
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#50
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It's still an unsafe practice. Guns are to be considered loaded at all times. No exceptions.
__________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ “When you're taking flak you know you're over the target” |
#51
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Last edited by meno377; 11-27-2016 at 10:53 PM.. |
#52
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the story of my life when i go shooting. I hate it when I'm near dumb people and I have no problem telling them off if they are being unsafe. They get butt hurt, but who cares. My life is worth more than someones dumb mistake.
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#55
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And for those talking about taking "all firearms are loaded" too literally, you're really missing the point of the rule. The best way I can sum up the point of the rule is that you're not ever supposed to say, or feel the urge to say, "it's okay, it's unloaded." So if something you're doing with an unloaded gun is making someone else uncomfortable, and that's all you have to say in response, then you should probably save it and stop doing the thing that's making them uncomfortable. |
#56
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What to do? Pistol NOT pointing downrange!
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I thought that by being courteous and considerate, while not being a 'snake,' would have been best. I was actually polite when I approached him; he went on the defensive with the response, "... it's okay; it's unloaded..." But I digress - people nowadays get really, for lack of a better word, butthurt at anything... Quote:
That is one problem here - "what is the criteria for this sometimes...?" In spite of the risk of sounding pedantic, would the 4-Way Test be sufficient? 1. Is it the truth? 2. Is it fair to all concerned? 3. Will it build goodwill and better friendship? 4. Will it be beneficial to all concerned? As mentioned earlier - judging from the responses on this thread, even the Safety Rules is open to much interpretation. Oh, well... To be considerate of people who get butthurt at anything, I guess, just letting it go would be best... At least letting the RO know about it on my way out (am an annual member at that range). Quote:
Seriously...??? *SMH* Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro _ Last edited by rodralig; 11-28-2016 at 6:24 AM.. |
#57
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So the range I go to you empty the gun. Open the action, point the guns down range, and step back from the shooting line. After the RO checks all the gun, you walk forward the check or change your target. All those guns are pointing down range right at you when you go down range.
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If you want change you have to put in your 2 cents, you can't just sit on the sidelines and whine. |
#59
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You go to Range with "Expectation" of shooting live rounds and you better be putting the Golden rules in practice or you have no business of being there. If you even have to argue and be stubborn about them, then that's the kind of gun owner you are.
__________________
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#60
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And I have a reasonable expectation that a gun lying locked open on a bench is not going to discharge. See how that works?
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#61
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My god, the foolish and ridiculous comments and lax attitude toward the most basic firearm handling rules here, make me extremely grateful for having the opportunity of shooting at a range where there is strict adherence to safe handling rules, zero tolerance to those who continue to ignore them, so that the chance of an accidental or negligent discharge injuring someone or worse, is greatly reduced.
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Single fin mentality |
#62
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while at the public range, RSO's or line coaches watch the line and the weapons lying there clear.. purpose of muzzle pointing down range is simple, the last time it was handled and the next time it's handled, it's always muzzle down range.. if you don't see the safety value of this, don't worry, those of us that run live ranges do.. and we are committed to maintaining everyone's safety, whether they realize it or not..
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I started out with nothing - and I still have most of it |
#63
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op, you did the right thing. never assume a gun is unloaded just because someone else said it was..........safety is always first and pointing down range is POINTING DOWN RANGE.
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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#64
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Do us responsible gun owners a big favor by not taking a noob to the range with your irresponsible attitude towards safety. Your cavalier attitude is contributing more non-caring and common courtesy to fellow shooters.
__________________
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#65
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A gun that is pointed toward my stall with action open but ejector port down preventing verification of empty chamber should've caught the RSO's attention. The OP should've flagged the RSO's attention and pointed out the discrepancy. I'm sure the offending party would say, "Dude you could've just informed me and it would've been fixed. Instead you're being a Dick for doing all that". That's societ for you. You can't make everyone happy unless you're 325 lbs, a simple stare and low growl will surely make someone straighten up.
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The wise man said just find your place In the eye of the storm Seek the roses along the way Just beware of the thorns... K. Meine |
#66
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#67
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ridiculous comments and lax attitude toward the most basic firearm handling rules...
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"Unloaded" guns have some how managed to kill many people over the years. Many RO's are busy socializing and giving advice while on duty. Sweeping others with a firearm isn't a joke or an acceptable faux pas. If the RO's aren't watching out for range safety, go ahead a be a "d!ck" by saying what needs to be said. Political correctness has never saved a life, while common sense continues to do so.
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Discreet, Legal Carry in 37 States... |
#68
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I also don't get my panties in a twist over something that's not dangerous. The guy at the range last week I was going to say something but my look was enough for them to knock it off. The case the OP mentioned, I probably would not have said anything and if I did I wouldn't have been a dick about it. Maybe take a note? |
#69
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In order for it to have gotten that way, however, the person must have at least been holding it in that direction just before he put it down, and at that time the OP would have been standing in the direction the gun was pointed. That's a no-no, plain and simple. Hopefully he didn't perform the whole unload and clear process with the gun pointed in that direction. |
#70
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Col Jeff Cooper's rule number two (of four):
•Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. I believe he knew more about firearms than any yahoo posting on this board ever will. Having said that, I probably would have gone to the RO first.
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Certified Glock Armorer/NRA Certified Pistol Instructor and RSO |
#71
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__________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ “When you're taking flak you know you're over the target” Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 11-28-2016 at 11:50 AM.. |
#72
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Also I think Jeff Coopers idea of pointing may different from most here. I think his interpretation would be a firearm actually being physically manipulated. Not laying on a table.
__________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ “When you're taking flak you know you're over the target” Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 11-28-2016 at 11:54 AM.. |
#73
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The range that I frequent encourages members to attend the NRA RSO class. The general rule, besides having RSOs and a Rangemaster is, that everyone there should be looking out for the safety of everyone else first, and encouraged to politely but firmly let someone know when they are breaking or stretching cardinal rules.
Doesn't matter if it is perceived by an individual as not unsafe; rules is rules not to be ignored. The attitude of being more concerned about being seen as a dick is pretty childish.
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Single fin mentality |
#74
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#75
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Let them take it from there. Now that I would get a little excited about but I doubt the final orientation really indicates that in any way. |
#76
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#77
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Some guys think it's manly to allow guns pointed at them. |
#78
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I met a genuine dickhead at Angeles a few years ago. Boyfriend was showing Girlfriend where the safety was on his Beretta 9mm. So, while holding it, he turned the gun sideways (pointing at me). When he saw me move out of the way, he chuckled & said "It's OK, I haven't loaded it yet." I told the RO who had a talk with him. Had the RO done nothing about it, I'd have left & written to the owner.
When someone points a gun carelessly & excuses it away with phrases like "It's OK; it's not loaded" "It's Ok; the action is open" "It's OK; I'm not touching the trigger "It's OK; the safety's on" They are morons who should never have access to firearms. |
#79
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When you go to the range and majority of firearms are pointed towards you, do you have the same feeling when at LGS? Think about that ..... and why are you so against somebody who's correcting the offender for proper safety, why is it so hard to just turn the gun in the safe direction, why resist a safe practice?
__________________
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgement." One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. ~ Ronald Reagan |
#80
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I'm going the other way here.
OP you were TOO NICE to that moron. If it ever happens again (I hope not), YELL at that fool at the top of your lungs. If anyone is going to put my life in danger, getting screamed at is the LEAST that is going to happen to them. Anyways, the MYOB crowd sounds a lot like the "I CAN'T HANDLE CRITICISM" crowd of millennial babies. Ignore them and they will literally go away as they are incapable of confrontation without tears. |
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