Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > California handguns
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:06 AM
norcal_patriot's Avatar
norcal_patriot norcal_patriot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 991
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default Building a AR pistol compliant beyond 2017

I have a (now) 100% lower that i'd love to build an AR pistol on. Going forward, I can't use the BB because it'll make it RAW-configured..

Is my only option to use the BB 2.0?

Or(sorry may be a really stupid question) can I make it featureless? Or does make turn it into a rifle?
  #2  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:17 AM
Mickeymouse1 Mickeymouse1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: 562
Posts: 67
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I'm trying to imagine a featureless ar pistol. Don't think it's possible. But u can build anyways cause not sure the laws take place until next year. Build away!!! But must be drosd as a handgun. If it's a rifle dros ull have a sbr.
  #3  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:20 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcal_patriot View Post
I have a (now) 100% lower that i'd love to build an AR pistol on. Going forward, I can't use the BB because it'll make it RAW-configured..

Is my only option to use the BB 2.0?

Or(sorry may be a really stupid question) can I make it featureless? Or does make turn it into a rifle?
The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a non-detachable 0 round mag/sled*, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.

*non-detachable 0 round mag/sled...
Until 12-31-2016, a "bullet button" style maglock + 0 round mag/sled will comply with this requirement.
Starting 01-01-2017, a maglock that requires the firearm's action to be disassembled + 0 round mag/sled or a sealed/welded in 0 round mag/sled or a solid magazine well will be needed to comply with this requirement.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
  #4  
Old 07-05-2016, 9:52 PM
Adeodatus's Avatar
Adeodatus Adeodatus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SLO County
Posts: 2,254
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Tag
__________________
  #5  
Old 07-06-2016, 1:54 PM
deephouse deephouse is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Somewhere in CA
Posts: 3,719
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickeymouse1 View Post
I'm trying to imagine a featureless ar pistol. Don't think it's possible. But u can build anyways cause not sure the laws take place until next year. Build away!!! But must be drosd as a handgun. If it's a rifle dros ull have a sbr.
You don't have to DROS an 80% build...
  #6  
Old 07-06-2016, 1:59 PM
steelholder steelholder is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFV
Posts: 3,251
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
You don't have to DROS an 80% build...
So youre saying we've got 5 months to build ar/ak pistols..?
__________________
WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer
  #7  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:09 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelholder View Post
So youre saying we've got 5 months to build ar/ak pistols..?
Yes, if you want to then register it as an assault weapon in 2017.

Starting 01-01-2017, in order to be CA legal, the AR/AK style pistol be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

A fixed 0 round mag/sled must be installed.
This can be done by one of the following methods:
A. Installing a maglock that requires the firearm's action to be disassembled + 0 round mag/sled.
B. By welding 0 round mag/sled into the magazine well.
C. By making the firearm with a solid "magazine well".

In addition to the fixed 0 round mag/sled, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR/AK style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The firearm will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and need a minimum 10.5" overall length.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
  #8  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:16 PM
steelholder steelholder is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFV
Posts: 3,251
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Yes, if you want to then register it as an assault weapon in 2017.

Starting 01-01-2017, in order to be CA legal, the AR/AK style pistol be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

A fixed 0 round mag/sled must be installed.
This can be done by one of the following methods:
A. Installing a maglock that requires the firearm's action to be disassembled + 0 round mag/sled.
B. By welding 0 round mag/sled into the magazine well.
C. By making the firearm with a solid "magazine well".

In addition to the fixed 0 round mag/sled, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.


If the AR/AK style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The firearm will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and need a minimum 10.5" overall length.
The things in bold are bad and evil.

I want to build an ar/ak style that functions like a rifle just miniaturized like every other semi-auto ar/ak pistols out there.
__________________
WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer
  #9  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:33 PM
zman's Avatar
zman zman is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: S/W I.E.
Posts: 3,639
iTrader: 60 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.
This will work on D.I. as well, correct? (in conjunction with a zero sled)
__________________

Super Robot VOLTES V
  #10  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:35 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman View Post
This will work on D.I. as well, correct? (in conjunction with a zero sled)
Can't have a functional gas system.
So, in addition to inserting a dowel in the buffer tube, need to not install a gas tube and not install a gas block or install a plugged gas block or use a barrel that is not tapped for a gas system.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 07-06-2016 at 2:37 PM..
  #11  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:36 PM
bruss01's Avatar
bruss01 bruss01 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,315
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelholder View Post
The things in bold are bad and evil.

I want to build an ar/ak style that functions like a rifle just miniaturized like every other semi-auto ar/ak pistols out there.
Agreed, but if you want to play the game, you have to follow the rules.

At least, while building your pistol.

After the pistol has been built as a single shot - there is no law preventing you from modifying it to be a semi-auto. It just has to be built as a single-shot ORIGINALLY.

From there, you should be able to build the pistol the way you want. If you register it as an AW in 2017 (pretty hard to have a "featureless" pistol... a pistol without a pistol grip is going to be a handful) then you should be able to incorporate all the "evil features" they have in other states. You just won't be able to go much of anywhere with it.... home, range, back home, repeat ad nauseum... not much good as a "trunk gun" which is what a lot of folks use them for no doubt.

I have a KT Sub 2K that folds up... I take it in a pack with me when I travel. Since the mag well is inside the pistol grip, there is no way on earth to make it "featureless", so I will have to reg it or sell it, and I don't plan to sell. That means I can no longer pack it with me on travels. Which was my primary reason for owning that gun. Yes it sucks, but the options in this state are comply with the law or take your chances on an all-expenses paid vacation at the Greybar Hotel.
__________________
The one thing worse than defeat is surrender.
  #12  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:39 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
I have a KT Sub 2K that folds up... I take it in a pack with me when I travel. Since the mag well is inside the pistol grip, there is no way on earth to make it "featureless", so I will have to reg it or sell it, and I don't plan to sell. That means I can no longer pack it with me on travels. Which was my primary reason for owning that gun. Yes it sucks, but the options in this state are comply with the law or take your chances on an all-expenses paid vacation at the Greybar Hotel.
It can be made featureless with a grip wrap.


__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
  #13  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:48 PM
static2126 static2126 is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,471
iTrader: 142 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Agreed, but if you want to play the game, you have to follow the rules.

At least, while building your pistol.

After the pistol has been built as a single shot - there is no law preventing you from modifying it to be a semi-auto. It just has to be built as a single-shot ORIGINALLY.

From there, you should be able to build the pistol the way you want. If you register it as an AW in 2017 (pretty hard to have a "featureless" pistol... a pistol without a pistol grip is going to be a handful) then you should be able to incorporate all the "evil features" they have in other states. You just won't be able to go much of anywhere with it.... home, range, back home, repeat ad nauseum... not much good as a "trunk gun" which is what a lot of folks use them for no doubt.

I have a KT Sub 2K that folds up... I take it in a pack with me when I travel. Since the mag well is inside the pistol grip, there is no way on earth to make it "featureless", so I will have to reg it or sell it, and I don't plan to sell. That means I can no longer pack it with me on travels. Which was my primary reason for owning that gun. Yes it sucks, but the options in this state are comply with the law or take your chances on an all-expenses paid vacation at the Greybar Hotel.


You can make that featureless....
  #14  
Old 07-06-2016, 2:59 PM
steelholder steelholder is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFV
Posts: 3,251
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Agreed, but if you want to play the game, you have to follow the rules.

At least, while building your pistol.

After the pistol has been built as a single shot - there is no law preventing you from modifying it to be a semi-auto. It just has to be built as a single-shot ORIGINALLY.

From there, you should be able to build the pistol the way you want. If you register it as an AW in 2017 (pretty hard to have a "featureless" pistol... a pistol without a pistol grip is going to be a handful) then you should be able to incorporate all the "evil features" they have in other states. You just won't be able to go much of anywhere with it.... home, range, back home, repeat ad nauseum... not much good as a "trunk gun" which is what a lot of folks use them for no doubt.

I have a KT Sub 2K that folds up... I take it in a pack with me when I travel. Since the mag well is inside the pistol grip, there is no way on earth to make it "featureless", so I will have to reg it or sell it, and I don't plan to sell. That means I can no longer pack it with me on travels. Which was my primary reason for owning that gun. Yes it sucks, but the options in this state are comply with the law or take your chances on an all-expenses paid vacation at the Greybar Hotel.
what about blm/forest?


Does the law require documentation proving that it was originally built in the legal manner discussed above?

Once you buy the upper to convert how you want, how do you prove you built it the "correct way" originally?

thanks for the replies Quiet/Bruss
__________________
WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer

Last edited by steelholder; 07-06-2016 at 3:04 PM..
  #15  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:09 PM
Fern's Avatar
Fern Fern is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,203
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelholder View Post
Does the law require documentation proving that it was originally built in the legal manner discussed above?

Once you buy the upper to convert how you want, how do you prove you built it the "correct way" originally?

thanks for the replies Quiet/Bruss
You could document it with a video or pics.
Not really necessary since they would have to prove you didn't go through the correct steps which is impossible.
Innocent till proven guilty but better safe than sorry.
It would suck to have to go to court over a couple pics you could have taken during the build.
  #16  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:11 PM
steelholder steelholder is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFV
Posts: 3,251
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
You could document it with a video or pics.
Not really necessary since they would have to prove you didn't go through the correct steps which is impossible.
Innocent till proven guilty but better safe than sorry.
It would suck to have to go to court over a couple pics you could have taken during the build.
True I'm just unaware if the law specifies documentation or proof. I didnt think so. It would be so much easier to build a 80% lower and slap a pistol upper on top right guys?
__________________
WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer
  #17  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:18 PM
deephouse deephouse is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Somewhere in CA
Posts: 3,719
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
You could document it with a video or pics.
Not really necessary since they would have to prove you didn't go through the correct steps which is impossible.
Innocent till proven guilty but better safe than sorry.
It would suck to have to go to court over a couple pics you could have taken during the build.
This. Take pics, make copies, mail 2 copies. One to yourself, and one to another address for safe keeping. You'll likely never need it. But ... just in case...
  #18  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:23 PM
Fozzie TheBear Fozzie TheBear is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 616
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

SB880/ AB1135 will add some new requirements for keeping AR pistols compliant. I borrowed the following from Gunfighter Tactical's blog post on the topic.
http://gunfightertactical.com/assaul...lassification/
"AR pistols have the same requirements as AR rifles, with a few kickers just to make you even angrier. While a rifle simply needs to have a compensator instead of a flash hider, a pistol is prevented from having “a threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor…” This means that your AR pistol must have a compensator that is permanently pinned and welded to the barrel. Your AR pistol is an “assault weapon” as of January 1, 2017 and must be registered with the Cal DOJ before January 1, 2018. You can make an AR pistol featureless or use a crack action bullet button as described to avoid registering."
  #19  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:25 PM
steelholder steelholder is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFV
Posts: 3,251
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

I didnt read closely enough to the title.

For now till 2017 you can build and 80 and just slap a pistol upper right? Without having to make it single shot etc like stated above?
__________________
WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer
  #20  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:29 PM
jeremyro jeremyro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,294
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzie TheBear View Post
SB880/ AB1135 will add some new requirements for keeping AR pistols compliant. I borrowed the following from Gunfighter Tactical's blog post on the topic.
http://gunfightertactical.com/assaul...lassification/
"AR pistols have the same requirements as AR rifles, with a few kickers just to make you even angrier. While a rifle simply needs to have a compensator instead of a flash hider, a pistol is prevented from having “a threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor…” This means that your AR pistol must have a compensator that is permanently pinned and welded to the barrel. Your AR pistol is an “assault weapon” as of January 1, 2017 and must be registered with the Cal DOJ before January 1, 2018. You can make an AR pistol featureless or use a crack action bullet button as described to avoid registering."
Im pretty sure it is impossible to make an AR pistol featureless since the magwell is outside the grip

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
  #21  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:35 PM
greensoup greensoup is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 737
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyro View Post
Im pretty sure it is impossible to make an AR pistol featureless since the magwell is outside the grip

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
Permanently fixed magazine. Pull the rear pin and load with a stripper clip?
  #22  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:37 PM
jeremyro jeremyro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,294
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelholder View Post
I didnt read closely enough to the title.

For now till 2017 you can build and 80 and just slap a pistol upper right? Without having to make it single shot etc like stated above?
NO!
Single shot has been a thing with AR pistols for some time now. As of now there are very specific laws about the setup that are posted above.
  #23  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:38 PM
jeremyro jeremyro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,294
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Greensoup

  #24  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:43 PM
CalNRA's Avatar
CalNRA CalNRA is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8,691
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greensoup View Post
Permanently fixed magazine. Pull the rear pin and load with a stripper clip?
basically a break-top mall ninja Mauser broomhandle.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
This is not rocket surgery.
  #25  
Old 07-06-2016, 3:52 PM
steelholder steelholder is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFV
Posts: 3,251
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyro View Post
NO!
Single shot has been a thing with AR pistols for some time now. As of now there are very specific laws about the setup that are posted above.
Ok im in no way aware of the current laws pertaining to this. Pardon.
__________________
WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer
  #26  
Old 07-06-2016, 7:42 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelholder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
From there, you should be able to build the pistol the way you want. If you register it as an AW in 2017 (pretty hard to have a "featureless" pistol... a pistol without a pistol grip is going to be a handful) then you should be able to incorporate all the "evil features" they have in other states. You just won't be able to go much of anywhere with it.... home, range, back home, repeat ad nauseum... not much good as a "trunk gun" which is what a lot of folks use them for no doubt.
what about blm/forest?
Registered assault weapons can only be legally possessed in specific locations authorized by CA laws and can only be legally transported directly to & from those specific locations. [PC 30945]

Authorized locations:
A. On the registered owner's private property or on another person's private property with written permission to do so. [PC 30945(a)]
B. While at a target range ran by a public or private shooting club/organization. [PC 30945(b)]
C. While at a licensed target range. [PC 30945(c)]
D. While at F&G licensed shooting club. [PC 30945(d)]
E. While at a LE sponsored/approved educational event. [PC 30945(e)]
F. While on public land with authorization from the Gov agency that manages that land. [PC 30945(f)]



Penal Code 30945
Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:
(a) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
  #27  
Old 07-06-2016, 9:13 PM
MajorSideburns's Avatar
MajorSideburns MajorSideburns is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,347
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Registered assault weapons can only be legally possessed in specific locations authorized by CA laws and can only be legally transported directly to & from those specific locations. [PC 30945]

Authorized locations:
A. On the registered owner's private property or on another person's private property with written permission to do so. [PC 30945(a)]
B. While at a target range ran by a public or private shooting club/organization. [PC 30945(b)]
C. While at a licensed target range. [PC 30945(c)]
D. While at F&G licensed shooting club. [PC 30945(d)]
E. While at a LE sponsored/approved educational event. [PC 30945(e)]
F. While on public land with authorization from the Gov agency that manages that land. [PC 30945(f)]



Penal Code 30945
Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions:
(a) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.
Looks like this means you can't shoot a california RAW on BLM land, without approval by BLM for your specific RAW....

Do you guys agree with this interpretation?
  #28  
Old 07-06-2016, 10:38 PM
deephouse deephouse is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Somewhere in CA
Posts: 3,719
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

AH! THANKS FOR THIS!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzie TheBear View Post
SB880/ AB1135 will add some new requirements for keeping AR pistols compliant. I borrowed the following from Gunfighter Tactical's blog post on the topic.
http://gunfightertactical.com/assaul...lassification/
"AR pistols have the same requirements as AR rifles, with a few kickers just to make you even angrier. While a rifle simply needs to have a compensator instead of a flash hider, a pistol is prevented from having “a threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor…” This means that your AR pistol must have a compensator that is permanently pinned and welded to the barrel. Your AR pistol is an “assault weapon” as of January 1, 2017 and must be registered with the Cal DOJ before January 1, 2018. You can make an AR pistol featureless or use a crack action bullet button as described to avoid registering."
Just wanted to re-quote this, and also paste the PC in context:

Quote:
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also
means any of the following:
....

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine
and any one of the following:

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.

(B) A second handgrip.

(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.

(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
...
It seems to me (please correct me here if I'm wrong) that the qualification for an Assault Pistol STOPS at item 4, IF you use DFM Fixed magazine. The DFM Mag (that holds exactly 10 rounds) also meets the requirement for item 5.

Now, if you wanted to register your Assault Pistol, it seems to me that you could have a detachable magazine (Item 4) and would need ONE more feature to qualify it as an Assault pistol. 4D being the main one. Thus, from what I can tell, the threaded barrel becomes a moot point since you've already qualified it as an assault pistol?

So- please realize I'm just regurgitating this so that we can promote further discussion. Feel free to chime in if I'm missing anything here.
  #29  
Old 07-07-2016, 10:54 AM
morrcarr67's Avatar
morrcarr67 morrcarr67 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 14,845
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
You could document it with a video or pics.
Not really necessary since they would have to prove you didn't go through the correct steps which is impossible.
Innocent till proven guilty but better safe than sorry.
It would suck to have to go to court over a couple pics you could have taken during the build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
This. Take pics, make copies, mail 2 copies. One to yourself, and one to another address for safe keeping. You'll likely never need it. But ... just in case...
Though if you do it wrong you've just given them all they'll need to introduce you to a couple of guys who are looking for new girlfriends.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk
__________________
Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post

”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
  #30  
Old 07-07-2016, 12:23 PM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,425
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyro View Post
Im pretty sure it is impossible to make an AR pistol featureless since the magwell is outside the grip

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
This is the queen of spades on AR/AK beyond 12/31/2016
  #31  
Old 07-20-2016, 10:46 AM
HDShawn HDShawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 79
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So if I am reading this right, under the pistol definition of an assault weapon (#4), it would also apply to rimfire, since it doesn't specifically say centerfire in the definition, just "semiautomatic pistol"? Would have to be break-action or fixed mag, even for rimfire, or somehow single shot/bolt action, since an AR, pistol or rifle, would be hard to handle without a handguard/shroud. Either way, would even apply to .22LR/.17 AR style pistol, correct?
  #32  
Old 07-20-2016, 2:57 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDShawn View Post
So if I am reading this right, under the pistol definition of an assault weapon (#4), it would also apply to rimfire, since it doesn't specifically say centerfire in the definition, just "semiautomatic pistol"? Would have to be break-action or fixed mag, even for rimfire, or somehow single shot/bolt action, since an AR, pistol or rifle, would be hard to handle without a handguard/shroud. Either way, would even apply to .22LR/.17 AR style pistol, correct?
Correct.
CA assault weapons laws for handguns effect both centerfire and rimfire handguns.

Unlike CA assault weapons laws for rifles, there is no rimfire exemption for handguns.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
  #33  
Old 07-21-2016, 8:24 PM
Freedom101 Freedom101 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have an 80% lower that I built into single action with 0 round sled , documented build with photos and then I later decided to convert to semi auto, already installed break action type mag release . It would already be compliant for 2017 correct ? If not how do I register it as Assault weapon with no serial numbers ? Thank guy's
  #34  
Old 07-22-2016, 3:19 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,966
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom101 View Post
I have an 80% lower that I built into single action with 0 round sled , documented build with photos and then I later decided to convert to semi auto, already installed break action type mag release . It would already be compliant for 2017 correct ? If not how do I register it as Assault weapon with no serial numbers ? Thank guy's
In order to register it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]
Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
  #35  
Old 09-08-2016, 1:09 PM
DrowningMonkey DrowningMonkey is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

so if a friend wanted to give me a complete 7.5 pistol upper, I'd have to build an upper that is single shot to use with the lower I want to build that has a bb and zero sled. could I use parts from another upper temporarily, such as bcg, and what would be the bare minimum parts I'd need new?
  #36  
Old 09-08-2016, 4:33 PM
Iggy_M Iggy_M is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Whittier, Ca
Posts: 87
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

If i used princes new bb on my current legal ca compliant ar pistol, ill be good in 2017 to avoid registration
  #37  
Old 09-13-2016, 9:26 PM
HDShawn HDShawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 79
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So I am considering an AR pistol build before the end of the year. I realize the legality of this is a gray area, mainly with using a completed upper. After much research, I find conflicting answers and am thoroughly confused. I will be using an 80% lower, so no real concerns over the lower. Question is, can one be built "legally" (compliant) with a completed upper, if I were to either put a dowel in the buffer tube, or buy one of those plugs to put in place of the buffer tube (like is available for .22LR), thereby making it necessary to open the action to reload; in addition to a 0 round mag/sled? Remove gas tube from assembled upper? I realize this is an area of confusion for many, most likely. Re-barrel the upper to one with no gas port? Or is using a completed upper pretty much a no go from a compliance standpoint, even if the lower was made to be single shot from the get go?
  #38  
Old 09-14-2016, 4:00 PM
HDShawn HDShawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 79
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

???
  #39  
Old 09-14-2016, 5:02 PM
JDW67 JDW67 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,993
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDShawn View Post
So I am considering an AR pistol build before the end of the year. I realize the legality of this is a gray area, mainly with using a completed upper. After much research, I find conflicting answers and am thoroughly confused. I will be using an 80% lower, so no real concerns over the lower. Question is, can one be built "legally" (compliant) with a completed upper, if I were to either put a dowel in the buffer tube, or buy one of those plugs to put in place of the buffer tube (like is available for .22LR), thereby making it necessary to open the action to reload; in addition to a 0 round mag/sled? Remove gas tube from assembled upper? I realize this is an area of confusion for many, most likely. Re-barrel the upper to one with no gas port? Or is using a completed upper pretty much a no go from a compliance standpoint, even if the lower was made to be single shot from the get go?
Quiet has answered your question many times in this thread.
  #40  
Old 09-14-2016, 5:31 PM
HDShawn HDShawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 79
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Pardon my ignorance, but the post by Quiet is the first and only time I have seen a mention about not being able to use a pre-assembled upper and be in compliance, in my many hours of searching this subject. Maybe I'm not getting the search terms correct. I get the rest of it, but seems like that would also mean that a person couldn't put together a firearm with used parts they had lying around(extras, takeoffs, etc) on a new lower. Just seems counterintuitive since the lower is the part actually considered a firearm, and the only part that is regulated. I also get the extra precaution by building your own upper. Just would like to get my facts straight from people with more experience on this before I jump into it and end up with a gun I can't even use for risk of a felony, as well as find out that the upper I have is a waste. I don't want to build it and have to leave it at home. Not trying to stir ****.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:36 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy