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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#1
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Building a AR pistol compliant beyond 2017
I have a (now) 100% lower that i'd love to build an AR pistol on. Going forward, I can't use the BB because it'll make it RAW-configured..
Is my only option to use the BB 2.0? Or(sorry may be a really stupid question) can I make it featureless? Or does make turn it into a rifle? |
#2
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I'm trying to imagine a featureless ar pistol. Don't think it's possible. But u can build anyways cause not sure the laws take place until next year. Build away!!! But must be drosd as a handgun. If it's a rifle dros ull have a sbr.
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#3
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Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto. In addition to installing a non-detachable 0 round mag/sled*, the following must be done depending on the type of upper... If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then: 1. Do not install a gas tube. 2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block. This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot. If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then: 1. Do not install a gas piston. 2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block. This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot. If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then: 1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving. This makes it a break-top/open single-shot. The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length. *non-detachable 0 round mag/sled... Until 12-31-2016, a "bullet button" style maglock + 0 round mag/sled will comply with this requirement. Starting 01-01-2017, a maglock that requires the firearm's action to be disassembled + 0 round mag/sled or a sealed/welded in 0 round mag/sled or a solid magazine well will be needed to comply with this requirement.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#5
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You don't have to DROS an 80% build...
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#6
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So youre saying we've got 5 months to build ar/ak pistols..?
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WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer |
#7
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Starting 01-01-2017, in order to be CA legal, the AR/AK style pistol be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol. Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto. A fixed 0 round mag/sled must be installed. This can be done by one of the following methods: A. Installing a maglock that requires the firearm's action to be disassembled + 0 round mag/sled. B. By welding 0 round mag/sled into the magazine well. C. By making the firearm with a solid "magazine well". In addition to the fixed 0 round mag/sled, the following must be done depending on the type of upper... If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then: 1. Do not install a gas tube. 2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block. This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot. If the AR/AK style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then: 1. Do not install a gas piston. 2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block. This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot. If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then: 1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving. This makes it a break-top/open single-shot. The firearm will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and need a minimum 10.5" overall length.
__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#8
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I want to build an ar/ak style that functions like a rifle just miniaturized like every other semi-auto ar/ak pistols out there.
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WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer |
#9
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This will work on D.I. as well, correct? (in conjunction with a zero sled)
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Super Robot VOLTES V |
#10
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So, in addition to inserting a dowel in the buffer tube, need to not install a gas tube and not install a gas block or install a plugged gas block or use a barrel that is not tapped for a gas system.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 07-06-2016 at 2:37 PM.. |
#11
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At least, while building your pistol. After the pistol has been built as a single shot - there is no law preventing you from modifying it to be a semi-auto. It just has to be built as a single-shot ORIGINALLY. From there, you should be able to build the pistol the way you want. If you register it as an AW in 2017 (pretty hard to have a "featureless" pistol... a pistol without a pistol grip is going to be a handful) then you should be able to incorporate all the "evil features" they have in other states. You just won't be able to go much of anywhere with it.... home, range, back home, repeat ad nauseum... not much good as a "trunk gun" which is what a lot of folks use them for no doubt. I have a KT Sub 2K that folds up... I take it in a pack with me when I travel. Since the mag well is inside the pistol grip, there is no way on earth to make it "featureless", so I will have to reg it or sell it, and I don't plan to sell. That means I can no longer pack it with me on travels. Which was my primary reason for owning that gun. Yes it sucks, but the options in this state are comply with the law or take your chances on an all-expenses paid vacation at the Greybar Hotel.
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The one thing worse than defeat is surrender. |
#12
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__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#13
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You can make that featureless.... |
#14
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Does the law require documentation proving that it was originally built in the legal manner discussed above? Once you buy the upper to convert how you want, how do you prove you built it the "correct way" originally? thanks for the replies Quiet/Bruss
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WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer Last edited by steelholder; 07-06-2016 at 3:04 PM.. |
#15
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Not really necessary since they would have to prove you didn't go through the correct steps which is impossible. Innocent till proven guilty but better safe than sorry. It would suck to have to go to court over a couple pics you could have taken during the build. |
#16
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WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer |
#17
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#18
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SB880/ AB1135 will add some new requirements for keeping AR pistols compliant. I borrowed the following from Gunfighter Tactical's blog post on the topic.
http://gunfightertactical.com/assaul...lassification/ "AR pistols have the same requirements as AR rifles, with a few kickers just to make you even angrier. While a rifle simply needs to have a compensator instead of a flash hider, a pistol is prevented from having “a threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor…” This means that your AR pistol must have a compensator that is permanently pinned and welded to the barrel. Your AR pistol is an “assault weapon” as of January 1, 2017 and must be registered with the Cal DOJ before January 1, 2018. You can make an AR pistol featureless or use a crack action bullet button as described to avoid registering." |
#19
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I didnt read closely enough to the title.
For now till 2017 you can build and 80 and just slap a pistol upper right? Without having to make it single shot etc like stated above?
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WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer |
#20
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(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. |
#21
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Permanently fixed magazine. Pull the rear pin and load with a stripper clip?
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#22
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Single shot has been a thing with AR pistols for some time now. As of now there are very specific laws about the setup that are posted above. |
#24
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#25
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Ok im in no way aware of the current laws pertaining to this. Pardon.
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WTB 3rd Gen SW also looking for a 22 pistol with 6" bbl or longer |
#26
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Authorized locations: A. On the registered owner's private property or on another person's private property with written permission to do so. [PC 30945(a)] B. While at a target range ran by a public or private shooting club/organization. [PC 30945(b)] C. While at a licensed target range. [PC 30945(c)] D. While at F&G licensed shooting club. [PC 30945(d)] E. While at a LE sponsored/approved educational event. [PC 30945(e)] F. While on public land with authorization from the Gov agency that manages that land. [PC 30945(f)] Penal Code 30945 Unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 31000, a person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this article may possess it only under any of the following conditions: (a) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission. (b) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets. (c) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range. (d) While on the premises of a shooting club that is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code. (e) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms. (f) While on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 30510, 30515, 30520, or 30530, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land. (g) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this section, or to any licensed gun dealer, for servicing or repair pursuant to Section 31050, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Sections 16850 and 25610.
__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#27
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Do you guys agree with this interpretation? |
#28
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AH! THANKS FOR THIS!
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Now, if you wanted to register your Assault Pistol, it seems to me that you could have a detachable magazine (Item 4) and would need ONE more feature to qualify it as an Assault pistol. 4D being the main one. Thus, from what I can tell, the threaded barrel becomes a moot point since you've already qualified it as an assault pistol? So- please realize I'm just regurgitating this so that we can promote further discussion. Feel free to chime in if I'm missing anything here. |
#29
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Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk |
#30
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This is the queen of spades on AR/AK beyond 12/31/2016
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#31
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So if I am reading this right, under the pistol definition of an assault weapon (#4), it would also apply to rimfire, since it doesn't specifically say centerfire in the definition, just "semiautomatic pistol"? Would have to be break-action or fixed mag, even for rimfire, or somehow single shot/bolt action, since an AR, pistol or rifle, would be hard to handle without a handguard/shroud. Either way, would even apply to .22LR/.17 AR style pistol, correct?
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#32
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CA assault weapons laws for handguns effect both centerfire and rimfire handguns. Unlike CA assault weapons laws for rifles, there is no rimfire exemption for handguns.
__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#33
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I have an 80% lower that I built into single action with 0 round sled , documented build with photos and then I later decided to convert to semi auto, already installed break action type mag release . It would already be compliant for 2017 correct ? If not how do I register it as Assault weapon with no serial numbers ? Thank guy's
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#34
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Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc). Markings must include: 1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals) 2) Model 3) Caliber 4) Manufacturer's name 5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer. So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it. If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)] Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)] In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). |
#35
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so if a friend wanted to give me a complete 7.5 pistol upper, I'd have to build an upper that is single shot to use with the lower I want to build that has a bb and zero sled. could I use parts from another upper temporarily, such as bcg, and what would be the bare minimum parts I'd need new?
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#37
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So I am considering an AR pistol build before the end of the year. I realize the legality of this is a gray area, mainly with using a completed upper. After much research, I find conflicting answers and am thoroughly confused. I will be using an 80% lower, so no real concerns over the lower. Question is, can one be built "legally" (compliant) with a completed upper, if I were to either put a dowel in the buffer tube, or buy one of those plugs to put in place of the buffer tube (like is available for .22LR), thereby making it necessary to open the action to reload; in addition to a 0 round mag/sled? Remove gas tube from assembled upper? I realize this is an area of confusion for many, most likely. Re-barrel the upper to one with no gas port? Or is using a completed upper pretty much a no go from a compliance standpoint, even if the lower was made to be single shot from the get go?
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#39
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#40
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Pardon my ignorance, but the post by Quiet is the first and only time I have seen a mention about not being able to use a pre-assembled upper and be in compliance, in my many hours of searching this subject. Maybe I'm not getting the search terms correct. I get the rest of it, but seems like that would also mean that a person couldn't put together a firearm with used parts they had lying around(extras, takeoffs, etc) on a new lower. Just seems counterintuitive since the lower is the part actually considered a firearm, and the only part that is regulated. I also get the extra precaution by building your own upper. Just would like to get my facts straight from people with more experience on this before I jump into it and end up with a gun I can't even use for risk of a felony, as well as find out that the upper I have is a waste. I don't want to build it and have to leave it at home. Not trying to stir ****.
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