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  #41  
Old 12-23-2015, 9:42 PM
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Put a couple hundred rounds though mine with the Mag Guts spring kits today. Functioned flawlessly. I like the Mag Guts, but the weak spot of the system is the floor plate. As previously mentioned they are very thin and the edges are a bit sharp. The plate's are just a bit wider than the spring itself, holding it in position while the spring is compressed to get the base plate on is a PIA. They work with the OEM floor plate they are a bit tighter with the OEM but they work just fine.
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  #42  
Old 12-23-2015, 9:45 PM
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Agreed, P5. That was my determination as well as many others on various online forums.

I really didn't like how the MG floorplate interfered with the extended mag's attachment.
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  #43  
Old 12-23-2015, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupulepeter View Post
The LCI blocks the front sight when the weapon is loaded and makes it difficult to focus. It is a obvious design flaw.
I look at it this way: handgun would not even be available here without a PROMINENT LCI. Whether you consider this one a design flaw is your opinion, nothing more. To each his own. Don't buy the handgun or get one off-roster for a premium price. Or modify it, but just don't have an ND or other situation with it because your liability exposure may be greater if the modification becomes known in a civil or criminal prosecution. A potential issue of GROSS negligence, not merely simple negligence, may be raised by a sharp plaintiff's attorney or prosecutor.

Last edited by ifilef; 12-23-2015 at 11:11 PM..
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  #44  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:20 PM
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This is a parts review thread, not a discussion on hypothetical liabilities. It's America, we do what we want acknowledging the pros and cons. No need to be officious towards one another. It's knowledge and tested data to share. The end user can do with it as they please.
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  #45  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
I look at it this way: handgun would not even be available here without a PROMINENT LCI.
Once again, THIS is "prominent" enough to pass for the roster.
92FS and Glock 26:




It does not have to be a friggin' shark fin with a laser on its head.
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  #46  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
This is a parts review thread, not a discussion on hypothetical liabilities. It's America, we do what we want acknowledging the pros and cons. No need to be officious towards one another. It's knowledge and tested data to share. The end user can do with it as they please.
It's relevant to the thread as an informed 'con', that some here may not be aware of.... I would not have posted had the earlier poster not commented on 'design flaw'. Fine, rid yourself of the purported 'design flaw' which conforms to law but be aware of the potential consequence of doing so.

Unsubscribed.

Last edited by ifilef; 12-24-2015 at 10:25 AM..
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  #47  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Once again, THIS is "prominent" enough to pass for the roster.
92FS and Glock 26:




It does not have to be a friggin' shark fin with a laser on its head.
You are totally uninformed about the law. The 92FS LCI and Glock would not pass muster now. The guns were on Roster prior to the change requiring prominent LCI and were grandfathered in.

Last edited by ifilef; 12-23-2015 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: Unsubscribed.
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  #48  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
You are totally uninformed about the law. The 92FS LCI and Glock would not pass muster now. The guns were on Roster prior to the change requiring prominent LCI and were grandfathered in.
And once a gun leaves the dealer, the roster is meaningless unless the gun is going to be shipped to another dealer.

There are no legal ramifications in removing the LCI or magazine disconnect.
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  #49  
Old 12-23-2015, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
It's relevant to the thread as an informed 'con', that some here may not be aware of.... I would not have posted had the earlier poster not commented on 'design flaw'. Fine, rid yourself of the purported 'design flaw' which conforms to law but be aware of the potential consequence of doing so.

Unsubscribed.
It only conforms to the law in regards to the sale of pistols. There are no laws forbidding these modifications after ownership is established. . .

Wait, why am I even retorting when you've unsubscribed? Well, bye then and enjoy your holidays.
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  #50  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:02 AM
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Great Post OP!!
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  #51  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:10 AM
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Lol, Saud. Good seeing ya!
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  #52  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupulepeter View Post
The LCI blocks the front sight when the weapon is loaded and makes it difficult to focus. It is a obvious design flaw.
I agree.

They could have used extractor as an LCI as others have done.

Readily visible without impeding or distracting from the sight picture.

I will go off roster if I add one to my permit...
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  #53  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:25 AM
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Unfortunately, California Penal Code § 16380 - Chamber load indicator requires that it's obnoxious:

As used in this part, “chamber load indicator” means a device that plainly indicates that a cartridge is in the firing chamber. A device satisfies this definition if it is readily visible, has incorporated or adjacent explanatory text or graphics, or both, and is designed and intended to indicate to a reasonably foreseeable adult user of the pistol, without requiring the user to refer to a user's manual or any other resource other than the pistol itself, whether a cartridge is in the firing chamber.

The PC does not, however, require that the LCI be on top of the slide. My guess is the manufacturers didn't want to redesign the extractor so they just added the top version. Sig could easily do this with their already obnoxiously large, new style extractors, but they opted for the top.
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  #54  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlockN'Roll View Post
I agree.

They could have used extractor as an LCI as others have done.

Readily visible without impeding or distracting from the sight picture.

I will go off roster if I add one to my permit...
They might not meet the current certification protocol from "Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 5, Department of Justice Regulations for Laboratory Certification and Handgun Testing"

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...s/chapter5.pdf

(d)(1) A functioning chamber load indicator must meet all of the following conditions:

(A) Explanatory text and/or graphics either incorporated within the chamber load indicator or adjacent to the chamber load indicator is/are permanently displayed by engraving, stamping, etching, molding, casting, or other means of permanent marking.

(B) Each letter of explanatory text must have a minimum height of 1/16 inch.

(C) The explanatory text and/or graphics shall be of a distinct visual contrast to that of the firearm.

(D) The “loaded” indication, that portion of the chamber load indicator that visually indicates there is a round in the chamber, shall be of a distinct color contrast to the firearm.

(E) Only when there is a round in the chamber, the “loaded” indication is visible on the firearm from a distance of at least twenty-four inches. When there is no round in the chamber, the “loaded” indication must not be visible.

(F) The text and/or graphics and the “loaded” indication together inform a reasonably foreseeable adult user of the pistol, that a round is in the chamber, without requiring the user to refer to a user’s manual or any other resource other than the pistol itself.

Last edited by saudadeii; 12-24-2015 at 10:34 AM..
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  #55  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:38 AM
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I wonder if you're involved in a defensive shoot how the DA would portray all of your "unsafe" removal of factory "safety" features
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  #56  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
Unfortunately, California Penal Code § 16380 - Chamber load indicator requires that it's obnoxious:

As used in this part, “chamber load indicator” means a device that plainly indicates that a cartridge is in the firing chamber. A device satisfies this definition if it is readily visible, has incorporated or adjacent explanatory text or graphics, or both, and is designed and intended to indicate to a reasonably foreseeable adult user of the pistol, without requiring the user to refer to a user's manual or any other resource other than the pistol itself, whether a cartridge is in the firing chamber.

The PC does not, however, require that the CLI be on top of the slide.

My guess is the manufacturers didn't want to redesign the extractor so they just added the top version.


Sig could easily do this with their already obnoxiously large, new style extractors, but they opted for the top.
Lazy ill conceived engineering...
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  #57  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:48 AM
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Great write up OP!
Lot of ideas for a great gun!
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  #58  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packy14 View Post
I wonder if you're involved in a defensive shoot how the DA would portray all of your "unsafe" removal of factory "safety" features
Did the removal of safety features contribute to the violation of the law in a shooting?
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  #59  
Old 12-24-2015, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
Or modify it, but just don't have an ND or other situation with it because your liability exposure may be greater if the modification becomes known in a civil or criminal prosecution. A potential issue of GROSS negligence, not merely simple negligence, may be raised by a sharp plaintiff's attorney or prosecutor.
Without case law this is FUD.

I'll wait.....

After doing some action pistol shooting I am over night sights and those thick front sights. I use 10-8 rears on my carry guns with Warren Tactical fiber optic fronts. I don't like the 10-8 FO fronts because the "red-dot" is too far from the top of the front post. But the prefer the 10-8 rears over the Warren rears because of the serrations and the rounding of "softness" of all the edges.

I have actually switched to carrying my G19/XC1 IWB in a Raven Phantom holster instead of my Shield.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 12-24-2015 at 10:58 AM..
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  #60  
Old 12-24-2015, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
Unfortunately, California Penal Code § 16380 - Chamber load indicator requires that it's obnoxious:

My guess is the manufacturers didn't want to redesign the extractor so they just added the top version. Sig could easily do this with their already obnoxiously large, new style extractors, but they opted for the top.
I think the slight protrusions on extractors no longer meet the requirements of the LCI during "safe" testing after a revision to the test. Obviously guns prior to this revision were grandfathered.

It is clearly easier to add a protrusion to an external ejector so there isn't any reason they would add it to the top if they didn't have to.
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  #61  
Old 12-24-2015, 11:05 AM
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"Safe" features were added for prevention of ND i.e. for those who don't follow the cardinal rules of firearms ownership. They hold zero bearing in an SD situation. A good shoot is a good shoot. Justifiable homicide is justifiable homicide regardless of the tool utilized.

Again, this is a parts review thread; not a thread for hyperboles to be thrown around. If you wish to discuss your criminal/civil liability topic further, start your own thread. Please don't clutter mine.
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  #62  
Old 12-24-2015, 11:55 AM
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Give FO sights a try. Nothing beats them during the day and in low light, or backlit from a flashlight they will be a solid black post (the same as night sights BTW).



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Old 12-24-2015, 12:02 PM
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Very nice, Tony! Dawson Precisions? Nice stipling as well, Sir. I may opt for the Trijicon HDs, but I need to get used to them on my P320 first. They're harder to be precise because of the larger dot area.

I also had no idea that the non-CA variants had that blatant warning on the side, "CAUTION-CAPABLE OF FIRING WITH MAGAZINE REMOVED". I guess they cater to stupid people outside of CA as well.
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  #64  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:08 PM
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The rear is a 10-8 and the front is Warren Tactical. Stippling by Enhanced Precision Products. The rubber Talon grips weren't grippy enough and the granulate was too abrasive on my skin. The Carry texture from EPP is perfect.

And yeah, the lawyer speak is standard on all M&P's without mag discos.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 12-24-2015 at 12:11 PM..
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  #65  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankm View Post
Did the removal of safety features contribute to the violation of the law in a shooting?
Of course not... And the DA won't care that it didn't. I know I wouldn't wanna be a test case.
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  #66  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Give FO sights a try. Nothing beats them during the day and in low light, or backlit from a flashlight they will be a solid black post (the same as night sights BTW).



Those are nice....worthy of looking into.
What price did you get them at?
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  #67  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:15 PM
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Here is my current EDC, and another example of the 10-8 rear with a Warren Tactical front with stippling by EPP.

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  #68  
Old 12-24-2015, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
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Those are nice....worthy of looking into.
What price did you get them at?
I think they were 40 something each end. Kinda expensive but a small batch part. FRONT URL / REAR URL
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  #69  
Old 12-24-2015, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Here is my current EDC, and another example of the 10-8 rear with a Warren Tactical front with stippling by EPP.

What brand holster is that, and how do you like it? I need one for my Shield, so I don't think this is OT...
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Old 12-24-2015, 6:06 PM
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It's a Raven Concealment Phantom with Comp-Tac IWB Clips. It's not actually see through.
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  #71  
Old 12-28-2015, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
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It's a Raven Concealment Phantom with Comp-Tac IWB Clips. It's not actually see through.
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  #72  
Old 12-28-2015, 8:17 AM
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.
.

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The founding fathers did a wonderful thing when they included the second amendment to the constitution...

Yes... and this! http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/87senrpt.pdf

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Old 12-28-2015, 9:36 AM
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the Democrats are trying to get implemented a "Safety" similar to the Mag-out-Safety that disables the trigger if the mag is removed.....

it would function as follows...
Mag Out = Trigger Disabled
Mag In & Empty Chamber = Trigger Engaged
Mag In & Loaded Chamber = Trigger Disabled

how is that for Feinsteinian Gun Safety!!!

coming soon to a Lib'tard State near you!!
.
.

(OOps.. corrected)
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  #74  
Old 12-28-2015, 3:19 PM
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Hmmm, not sure about ported for my personal use, but it's worth a shot.
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  #75  
Old 12-28-2015, 5:44 PM
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Hmmm, not sure about ported for my personal use, but it's worth a shot.
Agreed.
Ported is not a good idea for a carry piece.

They work great on the range.

They don't work quite so well when you are point blank on your attacker and are firing from tucked in to your strong side ribs while holding the attacker away from your gun with your weak arm.

Flash and powder blast to the face makes followup shots harder than they would be with an unported barrel.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-28-2015, 5:55 PM
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I've been looking into sourcing a manual safety block online. So far only user-custom pieces. Here are a few examples:


Kydex



Old floppy disk apparently



Let's get to work on these! I think I'll try the floppy disk one lol.
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  #77  
Old 12-28-2015, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
I've been looking into sourcing a manual safety block online. So far only user-custom pieces. Here are a few examples:


Kydex



Old floppy disk apparently



Let's get to work on these! I think I'll try the floppy disk one lol.
You still have floppy disks???

Dude.........we need to talk
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  #78  
Old 12-28-2015, 6:27 PM
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Fyi, can have a low profile lci by removing 1mm and no profile removing 2mm at front edge.
Can save $20. doing that.
Would adding the spring kit for a plus 1 in mag be considered manuf.? Just wondering.

Last edited by crs gns n thngs; 12-28-2015 at 6:30 PM..
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  #79  
Old 12-28-2015, 6:30 PM
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Would adding the spring kit for a plus 1 in mag be considered manuf.? Just wondering.
Yes, but +1 would still be legal. Factory mags would go from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9.
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-28-2015, 6:35 PM
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code_blue code_blue is offline
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Location: Sac County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
You still have floppy disks???

Dude.........we need to talk
Lol, no I don't. I asked my buddy in the IT field and sure enough, he had plenty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crs gns n thngs View Post
Fyi, can have a low profile lci by removing 1mm and no profile removing 2mm at front edge.
Can save $20. doing that.
Would adding the spring kit for a plus 1 in mag be considered manuf.? Just wondering.
I'm aware of that mod. $20 to save time and to ensure that I have the OEM parts if for whatever reason I had to convert back. Also, to test for Calgunners and provide member review of the parts out there.

I'm not sure what you mean by "considered manuf." If you mean in terms of the law, then no because that's for manufacturing magazines over 10 rounds.
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