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  #1  
Old 06-30-2016, 9:56 PM
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Default 80% AR Pistol Build Still Okay?

Its Jul 2016. All the threads I saw were more than a year old (maybe I missed it). So....

Simple question. Is it still legal in CA to build an AR 15 pistol from 80% lower?
Yes?
No?
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2016, 9:57 PM
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Yes
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2016, 9:57 PM
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Thanks.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:53 PM
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There's a lot more to that answer. You can't just DROS a lower and use it for an ar pistol (legally). You have to find a shop that can rebuild the lower as a single shot lower. It's just a technicality on paper but a felony to violate. But yes it's possible
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:08 PM
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It's still legal to manufacture SSE pistol. However, starting from that point, it becomes a little delicate.
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soginator View Post
There's a lot more to that answer. You can't just DROS a lower and use it for an ar pistol (legally). You have to find a shop that can rebuild the lower as a single shot lower. It's just a technicality on paper but a felony to violate. But yes it's possible
READ the OP. The dude is asking about building an AR-pistol from an 80% lower. Answer is, yes.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:13 PM
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Yes
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:16 PM
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Yes, it is still legal from an 80%. It's also legal from a bare receiver that was DROS'd as a pistol (but that's not gonna happen unless you are roster exempt)

You still have to comply with the "Safe Handgun" law. That effectively leaves you two options:

1) Build a dimensionally compliant, Single-Shot pistol. Please check out Penal Code section 32100(b) for the details.

2) Build a semi-auto pistol, with a LCI, mag disconnect and microstamping. The submit your build to a DOJ-certified lab for testing. Please see Penal Code sections 31900 and 31905 for the details.

Last edited by RickD427; 06-30-2016 at 11:19 PM..
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  #9  
Old 06-30-2016, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_to_CA View Post
Its Jul 2016. All the threads I saw were more than a year old (maybe I missed it). So....

Simple question. Is it still legal in CA to build an AR 15 pistol from 80% lower?
Yes?
No?
Yes.

However...

Any "handgun" made in CA needs to comply with CA unsafe handgun laws, CA assault weapon laws, and CA SBR/SBS laws.

Therefore...
The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a maglock & 0 round mag/sled, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2016, 5:45 PM
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FYI.

Because of new laws going into effect on 01-01-2017...

A "bullet button" style maglock can only be used until the end of this year.

Starting 01-01-2017, in order to be considered single-shot the AR style pistol will need to utilize one of the following:
1. Sealed/solid magazine well.
2. A maglock which requires disassembling the receivers in order to remove the 0 round magazine/sled.
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  #11  
Old 07-01-2016, 6:02 PM
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If it was made before the new law, Does it still have to comply with SSE2 ?
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Old 07-01-2016, 6:03 PM
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What about featureless?
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2016, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDdawn6 View Post
What about featureless?
Featureless applies to long guns.
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2016, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDdawn6 View Post
If it was made before the new law, Does it still have to comply with SSE2 ?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDdawn6 View Post
What about featureless?
No featureless options for AR style pistols.

A restricted feature on semi-auto pistols is having a magazine outside of the pistol grip.
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2016, 4:44 PM
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Ok, so how does one go about registering their 80% lower singe shot build? I.e. A lower they've machined, with a mag lock, 0 round follower, upper they've assembled themselves with a 7" barrel no hand guard and no gas tube? I ask because how will one make sure they can register said single shot if after assembly they were to convert it to semi auto prior to January 1st and didn't want to fall on the wrong side of the new AW ban?
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2016, 5:34 PM
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So since I have a AR pistol that is registered as a pistol from a Drosed lower, what do I need to do to be compliant?
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2016, 7:49 PM
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If we built to sse2 and have it documented, and now its semi auto. I can do a voluntary register as semi auto?
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2016, 8:17 PM
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That's my question. I have a virgin 80% a barrel and an upper receiver without a gas block or tube. If I document my build, serialized it, and convert to semi can I voluntarily register it before Jan 1st. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done this or hasn't been able to do this. I don't want to end up in constructive intent territory.
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Old 09-10-2016, 8:26 PM
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Also whats a mag lock? Is that a bullet button or something like princes new reloaded button
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2016, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarniXcore View Post
That's my question. I have a virgin 80% a barrel and an upper receiver without a gas block or tube. If I document my build, serialized it, and convert to semi can I voluntarily register it before Jan 1st. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done this or hasn't been able to do this. I don't want to end up in constructive intent territory.
My understanding is...

If it is legally built and registered before the end of the year, you are gtg.
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  #21  
Old 09-11-2016, 10:03 AM
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Will an ar15 pistol with a bullet button be required to be registered as an assault weapon next year?
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2016, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifteen View Post
Will an ar15 pistol with a bullet button be required to be registered as an assault weapon next year?
If is not modified, then yes.

If it is modified by replacing the "bullet button" style maglock with a fixed 10 round magazine, then no.

In order to be considered a fixed magazine, the magazine can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action.
^This can be accomplished by using a maglock that requires disassembly of the firearm's action before the magazine can be released or by welding a magazine into the magazine well or by inserting a magazine into the magazine well & welding the magazine release closed.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-11-2016 at 10:19 AM..
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2016, 10:35 AM
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Make it stop. make it stop.
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2016, 10:35 AM
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im trying to figure what i can do about my AK pistol without welding a magazine in there
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  #25  
Old 09-11-2016, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubs02 View Post
im trying to figure what i can do about my AK pistol without welding a magazine in there
Since there is no new maglock that is currently available that will meet the new "fixed magazine" definition, the options at this moment are:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Make it into a fixed magazine by welding a 10 round magazine into the magazine well.
C. Make it into a fixed magazine by welding the magazine release closed on a 10 round magazine.
D. Make it into a manually operated pistol by removing the gas piston and blocking the gas plug.
E. Make it into a featureless semi-auto rifle.
F. Take it out-of-state for storage or to sell it through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
G. Render it permanently inoperable by destroying the receiver in accordance to BATFE specifications.
H. Surrender it to law enforcement for destruction.
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2016, 12:09 PM
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I've read this and other related posts. A lot of information to digest to be sure.

Hypothetically, with respect to completing an AR pistol:

1) I can start with an 80% completed to 100% prior to 2015 (with nothing attached to the lower since completion)

2) I can purchase parts now and assemble an upper to be single-shot/break open and complete the build

3) After completing step 2, I can convert the weapon to semi-auto.

4) In 2017, I must add armaglock, BB 2.0/reloaded, or similar to avoid registration requirements

5) Prior to 07-01-2018, I must mark the receiver with the required information. However, registration is not required (provided #4 above is in place).

Am I missing anything. Thank you for your patience in clarifying my understanding.

Edit: I presume all of the above also apply to a pre-2015 DROS'd/registered SSE exempted/pistol lower (excepting #5 of course)?

Edit 2: It would seem that #4 may not be avoidable via armaglock and alike, based on some interpretations of the legislation.

Last edited by snovvman; 12-04-2016 at 4:23 PM..
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2016, 3:03 PM
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Would using 22lr pistol uppers make any difference?

1) 80% lowers built after 1/1/2017 intended to use only 22lr pistol uppers, and
2) pistol lowers dros'ed before 1/1/2017 with caliber listed as 5.56 or multi but switched to using 22lr uppers after 1/1/2017.

Can I keep all the evil features and remove the BB?
Do I still have to register as AW if I might be using the lowers with centerfire uppers outside California?
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  #28  
Old 12-04-2016, 6:07 PM
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Got to watch this one
Thanks
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Old 12-04-2016, 6:38 PM
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Tagged
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Old 12-04-2016, 7:21 PM
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Make it stop. make it stop.
Yes please.....
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Old 12-04-2016, 8:05 PM
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Yes please.....
I do sympathize and understand the perspective. On every forum, there are those who "have been there" and have been reading, writing, and a much deeper understanding of the information discussed.

Then there are the newcomers, or those who don't spend as much following or researching. We [in this case, me too], are asking questions that make some roll their eyes and say WTF to themselves. There are other forums that I frequent and when people ask questions, I feel the same way.

I don't know how to solve the problem, except to say that those of us who need information [that is difficult to understand, even after searching and reading] are hoping for the good graces and patience of those who know. The reality is that we are all experts/knowledgeable in one forum while novices in another...

That is my plea. Thank you.
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  #32  
Old 12-05-2016, 5:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j6p2004 View Post
1. Would using 22lr pistol uppers make any difference?
2. Can I keep all the evil features and remove the BB?
3. Do I still have to register as AW if I might be using the lowers with centerfire uppers outside California?
1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes.

CA assault weapons laws for handguns are different than those for rifles and shotguns.

CA assault weapons laws for handguns, CA SBR/SBS laws, and CA unsafe handgun laws also apply to rimfire pistols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j6p2004 View Post
1) 80% lowers built after 1/1/2017 intended to use only 22lr pistol uppers, and
2) pistol lowers dros'ed before 1/1/2017 with caliber listed as 5.56 or multi but switched to using 22lr uppers after 1/1/2017.
1. Needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.
2. If it's just a lower, then it needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.
If it's a completed semi-auto pistol, then it needs to be registered as an assault weapon by 12-31-2017 or made to operate with a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action.
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Last edited by Quiet; 12-05-2016 at 5:33 AM..
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  #33  
Old 12-05-2016, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
My understanding is...

If it is legally built and registered before the end of the year, you are gtg.
So to register a home built ar pistol in 2017 as a RAW, we need to self register it by 12-31-2016?
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Old 12-07-2016, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WarBoyNux View Post
So to register a home built ar pistol in 2017 as a RAW, we need to self register it by 12-31-2016?
I'd like to know as well.
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Old 12-13-2016, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarBoyNux View Post
So to register a home built ar pistol in 2017 as a RAW, we need to self register it by 12-31-2016?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydwaiz View Post
I'd like to know as well.
Any takers?
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  #36  
Old 12-13-2016, 8:28 PM
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I'm confused as well. I have a rolled mp5 receiver that I want to register as an AW in 2017. I spoke with a guy at DOJ today in the AW registration Dept and he told me that only LEO can build an Off roster pistol :/ I'm sure I'll get a different answer when I call again tomorrow
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  #37  
Old 12-14-2016, 7:52 AM
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Don't hold me to it, but from what I've read on other threads about this topic is that it is supposed to be "completed" by the end of 2016 and you have till the end of 2017 to register it
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  #38  
Old 12-14-2016, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
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I'm confused as well. I have a rolled mp5 receiver that I want to register as an AW in 2017. I spoke with a guy at DOJ today in the AW registration Dept and he told me that only LEO can build an Off roster pistol :/ I'm sure I'll get a different answer when I call again tomorrow
The "guy at DOJ" was clearly wrong if he suggested that only a LEO could legally build an off-roster handgun. LEOs have an exemption from the prohibition on the sale and purchase of unsafe handguns, but do not have an exemption on the manufacture of unsafe handguns.

But you're going to have a number of challenges to lawfully building that rolled MP5 receiver into a handgun. Specifically:

1) How are you going to make it "Single-Shot"?

2) How will you comply with the "Break-Top" or "Bolt Action" design requirements of PC 32100(b)?

3) There is some risk, as we have discussed in other threads, that the manufacture of a "non-pattern" firearm would be a illegal "Zip Gun" in violation of PC 33600. I don't believe that it is, having read the definition of a Zip Gun in a conservative manner (to the prosecution) but there is a good argument to made the other way. Can you identify a pattern firearm, made by a licensed manufacture that would be the same as your single-shot, break top or bolt action build?
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Old 12-15-2016, 11:47 PM
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This may be under wrong topic. Will it be illegal to purchase parts for AR 15 after 2016 via uppers, parts kits, stocks ect ect I have several lowers that need parts. I have been told that just complete AR 15 can not be purchased. Any help would be appreciated.
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2016, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarBoyNux View Post
So to register a home built ar pistol in 2017 as a RAW, we need to self register it by 12-31-2016?
Anyone able to elaborate?
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