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  #41  
Old 09-13-2019, 4:45 PM
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Normally I would say "Your Money, Your Choices."

But RDS on the market are becoming more like iPhones and cars. You buy one this year, then the manufacturer will release a new version next year with longer battery life, more features, better reticle etc. and probably in the same price range. Do you want to keep spending $$$ upgrade every year or every other year?

Also do you plan to spend more time practicing how to find "the dot" fast or applying cat crap on lens (Rain & Fog)?

Nothing wrong with people loving their DeltaPoint, RMR or Venom.
It's just that I personally cannot justify spending extra $400 on a sidearm for doing practice drills 2 or 3 times? per year

Last edited by hoozaru; 09-13-2019 at 4:50 PM..
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2019, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozaru View Post
Normally I would say "Your Money, Your Choices."

But RDS on the market are becoming more like iPhones and cars. You buy one this year, then the manufacturer will release a new version next year with longer battery life, more features, better reticle etc. and probably in the same price range. Do you want to keep spending $$$ upgrade every year or every other year?

Also do you plan to spend more time practicing how to find "the dot" fast or applying cat crap on lens (Rain & Fog)?

Nothing wrong with people loving their DeltaPoint, RMR or Venom.
It's just that I personally cannot justify spending extra $400 on a sidearm for doing practice drills 2 or 3 times? per year
I got my viper for ~$150, egw glock plate for ~$50.
Works nicely.
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  #43  
Old 09-13-2019, 9:42 PM
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Red Dots are not a fad for pistol or rifle shooting.

The confusion sets in when the inexperienced and or impatient shooter, with good eyesight, falsely
thinks red dot technology exempts him from the 4 principles of marksmanship.
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  #44  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:00 PM
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I remember reading an old American Rifleman Magazine from the 50's where the author stated that he would never use a scope to hunt except in perfect weather because he did not trust them. Look at things now almost everyone I know uses a scope to hunt. So it will be with red dot sights on pistols.
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  #45  
Old 09-14-2019, 10:39 AM
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Why does it matter?

I do what works for me, iron sights or RMR.
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  #46  
Old 09-14-2019, 9:06 PM
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It's getting better all the time, but I don't think it's quite there yet. An RMR on a handgun is much easier to shoot than iron sights, but the technology still has a little ways to go as far as reliability and battery life goes.

Many of these new "fads" start out in the competitive shooting world, and RMR on pistols is no different. Right now most people who shoot carry optics division in USPSA (where slide mounted RMRs are allowed) have 3 dots for there competition guns (1 on the gun, 1 in the bag as a back up, and 1 back at the factory for repair). Once the technology improves to the level the dots can stand up to 20-30k rounds per year I think RMR's on pistols will become as common as they are on AR's.
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  #47  
Old 09-14-2019, 11:11 PM
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I thought that RDS on rifles were being supplanted by LPVs?





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  #48  
Old 09-15-2019, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
They've been a fad now for 20 years. Ditto for ARs
Closer to 40. Competition shooters have been using them since the 80's.
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  #49  
Old 09-15-2019, 8:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cindynles View Post
It's getting better all the time, but I don't think it's quite there yet. An RMR on a handgun is much easier to shoot than iron sights, but the technology still has a little ways to go as far as reliability and battery life goes.
.

The Holosun 507c battery is rated at 50,000 hours...or 5 years...if left “ON” at middle setting.

.
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  #50  
Old 09-15-2019, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarosa View Post
I remember saying the same thing about the internet....
Funny, I said the same thing about color monitors and sound boards way back in the day ... and I wrote software for a living. That taught me to sit back and see what the market does. Even then, things tend to be cyclic.
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  #51  
Old 09-15-2019, 9:25 AM
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With a suppressor on my 1911 adding RMR is more sensical than swapping out the iron sights.

I really like the no battery tritium/fiber optic solution of Trijicon RMR dual illuminated model.
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  #52  
Old 09-15-2019, 9:36 AM
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No they are the way of the future, and the heads up display pistol sights are evolving and getting better.

The Red Dot on a pistol will alter our traditional use of "sight alignment and sight picture" moving forward.
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  #53  
Old 09-15-2019, 9:41 AM
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No, not a fad. Aimpoint is coming out with a ring mount so men can hit the urinal.
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  #54  
Old 09-15-2019, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
falsely thinks red dot technology exempts him from the 4 principles of marksmanship.
Pizza, wings, beer, and ??
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  #55  
Old 09-15-2019, 1:51 PM
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I'm waiting for the LEFT to figure out that Red Dot's are among the most lethal upgrades. WAY MORE LETHAL than a forward grip.

Try teaching a new shooter the fundamentals of IRON sights, and then say, "here, just put the dot on what you want to hit". Keep both eyes open do whatever, just put the dot on your target. Poor trigger and grip not withstanding they will still get pretty damn close relative to iron sights.
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  #56  
Old 09-15-2019, 2:37 PM
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I've had Ultradots on my bullseye guns for over a decade, maybe two. I've had red dots from ADCO on my paintball guns longer than that. https://www.opticsplanet.com/adco-in...ot-sights.html

I have a couple of Burris Fastfires that need to get mounted on a couple of revolvers.
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  #57  
Old 09-15-2019, 2:49 PM
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AFAIK no one has pointed out the biggest reason why its not a fad: single plane aiming.

You don't focus on the dot, you focus on the target and if the dot happens to coincide...

With irons you have two planes: the target and the front sight.

(I don't have any pistols with reddots, AR/AK pistols aside. And with those, the pepsi challenge is quite obvious, the reddot is far superior to the irons for those types of weapons, in ideal conditions.)
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  #58  
Old 09-15-2019, 8:12 PM
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RDS on handguns FAD No.

The way i see it RDS have too many pros to not use on handguns.

Pros:
you can keep your eyes on target and shoot.
seeing the dot is easier and faster than lining up the post with rear and target.
way easier to shoot longer distances with a red dot.

Cons:
Cost!!!
Battery!!

I think in a home invasion situation or shtf situation anyone here would take whatever advantage they can get. If i can get an accurate shot off 1 sec faster than the threat i'd pay for that advantage.

BTW i have a Holosun HS507c on my SP-01 and i can ring 4 inch and 6 inch steel out to 50 yards no problem. at 100 yards i'm 6/10 but that's more me than gun.
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2019, 10:11 PM
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Might as well ask if red dots on carbines are a fad. "Those things will never catch on!" "If you can't hit it with iron sights then you suck!" Sarcasm out of the way. Are red dots necessary on pistols? Of course not. Can they be an advantage? Yes, with proper training. Can there be issues with them? Of course.

I built up a couple of Glocks for my son and daughter with Trijicon RMR Dual Illuminated red dots. I went with the Trijicons after a buddy of mine tested one out over an extended period and loved them. They don't use batteries but collect light to project the dot, so the dot is appropriately bright for the shooting environment. Bright area = bright dot. Dimmer area = dimmer dot. No fuss.

I have only practiced with them a little so far, but am extremely pleased with what I have seen. A photo is attached. The one without the red dot is my daughters pistol, I just hadn't mounted it yet.

IMG_0070.jpg
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  #60  
Old 09-15-2019, 11:22 PM
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"....The Red Dot on a pistol will alter our traditional use of "sight alignment and sight picture" moving forward."

Hmmm...Is this why the US didn't put machine guns on the Vietnam Era F-4 Phantom Jets?
Because the design was moving forward?

Red Dots while not a fad and do most certainly serve more than 1 useful purpose, will not do your
thinking for you. Red Dots will not fix target identification, will not improve trigger control, have zero effect on
proper hold or follow thru. Go ahead on joke all you want.

A lackadaisical appreciation for and a disinterested approached to learning how to apply the basics of
pistol marksmanship, with or without red dot equipped guns, with at least some scintilla of thought and effort, becomes
painfully apparent to the shooter(s) on qualification day.

Last edited by hambam105; 09-15-2019 at 11:26 PM..
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  #61  
Old 09-16-2019, 5:22 AM
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back in the early 1990's I thought rails were a fad, they started making SIG's , GLOCKS with a rail, I was use to handguns without rails, now when I see a modern gun without a rail it looks outdated / old model

the same with AR's they never use to have a flat top or rail system , now almost all of them have a rail on top, no more carry handle
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  #62  
Old 09-16-2019, 8:17 AM
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Originally Posted by omega View Post
back in the early 1990's I thought rails were a fad, they started making SIG's , GLOCKS with a rail, I was use to handguns without rails, now when I see a modern gun without a rail it looks outdated / old model


Funny you note that. I had a CZ SP-01 that I loved....a solid shooter with a masculine profile. I then picked up a 75b on a trade.

When I held the 75b, I felt like I was a war hero in Poland, or sumpin’.....LOL

Anyway....after 12 long days, picking up my Gen 5 MOS today....YAY! Will be putting on a 507c and trying it out. If it shoots like my TP9SFX w/Viper, I’ll be jazzed

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  #63  
Old 09-16-2019, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
The Holosun 507c battery is rated at 50,000 hours...or 5 years...if left “ON” at middle setting.

.
I have one mounted on a Glock 17, I'd take that 50,000 hour rating with a grain a salt. Time will tell, but they (all makers) still have some work to do as far as durability goes. Solder connections seems to be the major reason for failure at the moment and its worse on metal frame guns. Failures seem to start around 10,000 rounds or so for most of the manufactures (I've seen Leupold, Trijicon, C-more, vortex, and holosun all fail at USPSA matches).

Many people may never shoot their slide mounted red dot pistols enough to see the failures, but they are not reliable enough yet for HEAVY use, which is why the competition shooters all have multiple dots for their guns.
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  #64  
Old 09-16-2019, 6:19 PM
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The current crop is kinda garbage. When they get aimpoint t1 reliable I’ll be happy.
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Old 09-18-2019, 2:07 PM
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The current crop is kinda garbage. When they get aimpoint t1 reliable I’ll be happy.
current is kinda garbage? Aimpoint makes a pistol optic now.
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  #66  
Old 09-18-2019, 2:37 PM
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current is kinda garbage? Aimpoint makes a pistol optic now.
I have been watching for a good price on the ACRO and I will snap up a couple.
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  #67  
Old 09-18-2019, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
I thought that RDS on rifles were being supplanted by LPVs?





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Old 09-18-2019, 7:10 PM
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Lol I can see it happening in the future, red dots on handguns makes them assault pistol. Oh no did I just give someone an idea for another law. Better start registering your red dot pistol or loose them on a boating accident lmao...
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Old 09-18-2019, 9:49 PM
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We have a generation that I'm a part of, but others will always blame the arrow. 99% of the time it's the Indian.



The advancement of technology has allowed some to think they can be the best without practicing. Instead it's all about the equipment.
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  #70  
Old 09-19-2019, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
We have a generation that I'm a part of, but others will always blame the arrow. 99% of the time it's the Indian.



The advancement of technology has allowed some to think they can be the best without practicing. Instead it's all about the equipment.


It's not different from golf, in that respect.

The technology is better....clubs are definitely more forgiving and easier to hit over the years. Still gotta practice.

But no denying the technology works and it can be easier to play the game

.
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Old 09-19-2019, 8:17 AM
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  #72  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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I just took my G17 MOS out. Packing it noticed the CR2032 was dead. Lame. RMR's must have crappy battery life. But when I was removing the RMR from the gun to get under the unit and over the seal plate to change the battery, then re-sighting it in at the range I appreciated Trijicon's great engineering. It didn't flicker once or go out shooting it though. HS507C checked out fine with original battery. I am eyeing those new ones. HE508, HE509.
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Old 09-19-2019, 1:07 PM
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This is Calguns. Everything here is a fad.
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Old 09-19-2019, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
It's not different from golf, in that respect.

The technology is better....clubs are definitely more forgiving and easier to hit over the years. Still gotta practice.

But no denying the technology works and it can be easier to play the game

.
I agree that technology helps, but there are some people who will blame technology when it's their own skills they need to work on.

I will always blame myself when I shoot and miss the target. I shoot clay sports and 99% of the time it's me. It's not my equipment.
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