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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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#81
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I know for certain I don't read everything, and I'd bet that the whole site is not covered in detail across the whole set of mods.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#82
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Last edited by Samuelx; 08-05-2011 at 1:28 AM.. |
#83
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That would be nice if it wasn't for the fact that another Mod here will use any reporting against you if he does not agree with your opinion on subjects and falsely publicly post how you abuse this system, even if you didn't use it.
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups |
#84
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell http://www.AnySoldier.com |
#85
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ok my question is how many incidents will it take for certain individuals before we don't see them in this forum anymore. Granted some of us venting to each other is inviting trouble from the OT trolls, but a lot of these same jack holes also seem to stir the pot and derail perfectly good threads that have a lot of legitimate and useful information in them. These same jack holes may claim they are being unbiased and just looking at the subject reasonably, but you put all bull**** aside, and it's obvious they have nothing but contempt for cops and decide to "get their rocks off" here because they have internet anonymity.
I can understand disagreements and differences of opinions, but with people like socal shooter, it's definitely not the case. |
#87
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From all the posts I have read on this subject, it appears it is a complicated one. One thing for certain, there are a heck of a lot of anti LEOs not only on this forum but out there in our communities. I hope all you guys can find a way to not let it subdue your enthusiasm to serve and protect. God knows the law abiding public needs it now more than ever. And just think, a peace officer doesn't want to be identified as such while posting in other parts of this site and I can't blame you. The world seems to have been turned upside down and respect for those that 'try' is in scarce supply. Good luck out there. |
#88
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I am not a LEO. I have worked for a LEA in the past. My father is a retired federal LEO (+31 years) and I have several other LEOs among my close family and friends.
While I will admit that there is a lot of LEO bashing on this site and in general, I, for one, only bash bad LEOs who should not be LEOs. I would openly bash any LEO who was caught on camera looting stores/homes after a disaster, those who use there powers for other illegal purposes, those who use excessive force just because they can get away with it, etc. I would hope that any LEO who has good morals, ethics and is truely dedicated to uphold the laws, would also bash the criminals with badges.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#89
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At any rate, this discussion has drifted slightly off course. I wasn't attempting to start a flame war or resolve the anit-LE slant that some members exhibit, but rather discuss the possible merits of having non-LEOs clarify their experience before responding to questions directed at LEOs.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#90
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That being said, it's frustrating enough that LEOs get second guessed by people who have no freaking clue about LE work. Not sure why our job seems to be the only one that idiots and regular people, with little to no training and experience in this field, think they know better than the people doing the job and should be able to tell us how to do it. Additionally, the use of force aspect of LE work is entirely another animal. The VAST majority of non-LEOs (i.e. people who have never had any LE training/experience) do NOT understand LE use of force and have absolutely NO leg to stand on when it comes to judging LE use of force (even quite a few LEOs and supervisors out there are not as fluent with using/reporting/reviewing force as they should be). Joe Public will look at a crappy video (crappy for a variety of reasons), think how "bad" the force being used "looks", and then, without any further research or information, conclude that the force used was "excessive". Joe Public will then come onto CG (or other internet website/forum/blog/etc) and spread his "expert" opinion as gospel in as many different threads in as many different sections of the website, bash the officers/agency involved, negatively stereotype and generalize the rest of the LEO community, talk some more sh1t from behind the safety of his keyboard, [insert additional stupid/idiotic behavior here], and then play the "what me?" innocent look game. Last edited by retired; 08-06-2011 at 10:17 PM.. |
#91
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I currently work for an LEA in a non-sworn position. On occasion, I've contributed a comment here or there, only when I have knowledge of the subject at hand. I tend to agree with the OP though. Those of us who may have some relevant knowledge need to acknowledge we are not LEO and give some idea where our knowledge comes from when chiming in in an area dedicated for LEO's.
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I also believe the internet and the anonymity it offers empowers people to comment on any subject without regard for their own knowledge or experience. The same issue also emboldens those who are out there simply to stir the pot. As for being second guessed, I say get a thicker skin. I've yet to be in any job where others don't offer their opinion on how your job could be done better (often when they should really be focused on their own). This issue IMHO has been worse over the last 3 - 4 years with the bad economy. Those of you who are LEO, thank you for your service to your communities.
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CA, Nevada & Utah CCWs Front Sight First Family Member NRA and CRPA Member USCCA Member |
#92
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I really do not understand why we would need to post *Non-LEO* before every post. Most people are going to forget.
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Escaped to FREE AMERICA: 09/01/2013 Deputy Vu Nguyen #1427 EOW 12/19/07 |
#93
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Its probably easier for LEO's to just get a small icon added.
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-If you insult me for my grammar errors, what makes you think I understand the insult? -Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Are we done -Voting is like falling off your bike. Sidewalk or street. Both are painful to fall on. But, the sidewalk (Mitt) is closer to the green grass. |
#94
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Simple.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#95
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I'm sure this will get locked soon before it gets too heated as someone else stated.
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-If you insult me for my grammar errors, what makes you think I understand the insult? -Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Are we done -Voting is like falling off your bike. Sidewalk or street. Both are painful to fall on. But, the sidewalk (Mitt) is closer to the green grass. |
#96
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I don't think any new rules or LEO/non-LEO tags or icons should be necessary on the board. The rules of the forum are already clearly posted as a sticky in this forum (for those folks who actually take the time to read them), so I don't think a new rule on the subject would make much of a difference. Also, sub-forums should be used as means of grouping threads of a certain topic together...not as a means of further dividing our membership. We have enough problems with the "us vs them" mentality as it is, why make it worse by allowing only certain folks to participate on a particular forum.
Everyone has an opinion (be it an informed opinion or not) and some people insist on making everyone else listen to their opinion as if it were fact. Those of us in the field know this and put up with it every day on the job. Unfortunately, if we want to participate on this forum, we have to put up with it here on the internet too. The fact of the matter is that unless a person is or has been a uniformed LEO, they can't speak intelligently on the vast majority of LE topics. It doesn't matter if you're a dispatcher, spouse/child/relative of a cop, MMA fighter, or competative shooter. Unless you've worn the badge and worked a beat, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to most law enforcement matters. If a non-LEO wants to post their uninformed opinion as fact on this sub-forum, so be it. People should not take anything they read on an internet forum as fact anyhow. Use the answers provided on this board as a starting point for your research and verify for yourself by consulting the relevant statutes or your local DA. On a side note, I find in unfortunate that anti-LEO sentiment runs so deep on Calguns in general. I've been a member here for some time, and have yet to attend a single Calguns function because of it. And I know many other officers who browse these boards (but don't post) who feel the same way. Like many LEOs, I'm a NRA member and strong supporter of our 2A rights, but I'm reluctant to actively support Calguns because of the anti-LEO zealotry this board is known for. |
#97
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I sure hope not. Again, this thread was started in an attempt to discuss and resolve something I see as an issue. If, collectively, people feel there is no issue or there is no solution, then so be it. I didn't start this thread to have people come in here and get this thread locked.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#98
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
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#100
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#101
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Alfalfa, I agree with many of your points. Especially about posting on Calguns and going to Calguns meets. I am reticent to attend meets or have someone I'm buying something from in the marketplace send me the item because I have no idea who the person is and don't want them knowing where I live due to some down right dangerous sentiments by a few members. I doubt many non-LEO must face those considerations.
I also have been a member for many years, and yet have a low post count. Until recently, I would not post for some of the reasons you mentioned. Recently my attitude on that has changed, slightly. I do disagree with you regarding the purpose of subforums. The reason this subform exists is clearly stated. The intent of this subform is not to create or promote an "us vs them" mentality. If Kestryll feels that is becoming the case, I would support his decision to eliminate the LEO subforum. This is, after all, his baby, and for whatever reason, he saw fit to be kind enough to create the LEO subforum. If the LEO subforum didn't exist, however, I would most likely not have participated in Calguns for as long as I did, and would have to reevaluate my participation here in the future, for personal reasons.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#102
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Indeed, that makes sense, it would be difficult to speak intelligently on that without training and actual experience. I don't think that the majority of topics discussed here would be similarly situated however you make a good point either way.
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
#103
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I think anyone who reads any of the calguns threads relating to LE will eventually see which posters are LE and who are not.
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"Bruen, the Bruen opinion, I believe, discarded the intermediate scrutiny test that I also thought was not very useful; and has, instead, replaced it with a text history and tradition test." Judge Benitez 12-12-2022 NRA Endowment Life Member, CRPA Life Member GLOCK (Gen 1-5, G42/43), Colt AR15/M16/M4, Sig P320, Sig P365, Beretta 90 series, Remington 870, HK UMP Factory Armorer Remington Nylon, 1911, HK, Ruger, Hudson H9 Armorer, just for fun! I instruct it if you shoot it. |
#104
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It is pretty obvious who are and aren't based on responses. People that aren't LEOs tend to say things like "in my opinion" or "I would think", while LEOs usually preface answers with "at my department" or "in the XX years I've worked" or "one time we had a guy" etc. I don't think any new rules or special tags are necessary and I will also add that sometimes new users think they is the best place to ask 2A legal questions (not saying you guys don't know your stuff, just that it is more suited for the 2A section). I know quite a bit about California and federal gun laws and if I see someone asking a question in here, I will answer it. If someone asks a LEO specific question, but I also happen to know the answer (and I'm 100% sure it is correct/not based on opinion), then again I will still answer (usually I do make it clear that I'm not a LEO if it isn't already obvious). As for use of force, yes sometimes people here go "oh look at that, they pepper sprayed that poor man pointing his rifle at them!". Other times it is obvious that authority was abused at some level (LEOs forcibly detaining non-suspects for filming them) and you can expect the general public to be enraged by that where ever you go. Hell, sometimes we have one LEO condemning an officer's actions and another one defending them. So you can't just say that disagreeing with the use of force is always because people don't understand it, because sometimes LEOs disagree with each other here on it. As for LEO bashing. I have seen people accused of bashing when they were simply disagreeing with the LEOs in a thread and I have seen people spouting off rude crap and making generalizations and the posts were allowed to stand. You can't expect uniform enforcement of the rules because the mods are all different people with different backgrounds and opinions. Just like officers are all different people with different backgrounds and opinions and therefore we can't blame all of you when one terrible LEO screws it up. Last edited by Anchors; 08-05-2011 at 1:48 PM.. |
#105
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Some of the questions asked are not questions that should be asked of a police officer because it is out of his wheelhouse. The poster just has a false impression that if anybody would know a police officer would. Are we supposed to ignore that poster when we know the answer and the officers are either ignoring the OP or actually being kind enough to tell him they do not know?
For example, is "X" gun legal questions are not something a lot of officers are going to be experts on. For example, it took years for departments to start educating officers on the finer points of SB23, bullet buttons, and so forth. Yet other members here on Calguns knew the laws back to front and are the very reason why police departments are now making the effort to better educate their staff. Should we ignore that poster just because he posted it in the LE section and we are not police officers? Should we let incorrect information stand such as an officer telling someone something is illegal when it clearly is not? Or should we direct him to the proper information on this forum as politely as possible? As for being anti-law enforcement, nothing could be further from the truth in my case. I'm surrounded by them in my life. Closest friends, relatives, and of course the instructors I train with are all law enforcement and all great people. However, they are just people. Not all knowing supreme beings. Sometimes they can use a little help from the peanut gallery. My point is, there are times when it is more than appropriate for a civilian to chime in. Like now for example. Have a good un'! Last edited by tacticalcity; 08-05-2011 at 2:20 PM.. |
#107
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There's nothing wrong with someone commenting on a post in the LEO subform if they are indeed knowledgeable about a topic. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with a non-LEO identifying themselves as such in this subforum and citing a source for their info. Officers in this subforum are often the first to point out when someone would be better served posting a question in another section of the site or consulting a lawyer. But if someone comes here specifically seeking the opinion of a LEO, there's no reason to assume they don't know where they're posting. The only thing unclear is if someone is indeed a LEO, other than the few listed who post often.
Again, read my first post in this thread. It has nothing to do with cop bashing, as there is already a rule against it. I don't know why people keep bringing it up. Think of it this way. You will never find a post of mine answering a question in the "Calgunners in Service" section. I have never been in the military, and am not an "active duty and deployed Military member." That is what the rules of that subforum state the purpose of it is: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=120567. While my father was in the military, and I have several very close friends deployed, it is not my place to respond to questions and posts in that subforum. If for some reason I did, I would state that I am not a military member, out of respect for them and their subforum. I don't know if there is an issue in that subforum of non-military members responding to questions, but I feel there is an issue here. Hence my suggestion for clarification.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#108
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Edit: I fogot to add that I am not a LEO.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 08-05-2011 at 4:52 PM.. |
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#110
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I also am a garbage man, but I prefer to call it "waste management".
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#111
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Well, I believe YOU when you say that but I'm not sure I believe EVERYONE who claims they're Not an LEO... You know those sneaky bastages are always going UC and trying to entrap regular folks, even other cops! I'm pretty sure that someone from my department is probably monitoring me online and they'll probably come on CG, pretend to be a Troll and try to get me to do or say something "unbecoming"...
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#113
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@biochem
I disagree, here is why although I am prior military, if I were to ask a question in the 'military forum' such as "What should I send my son/daughter, while s/he is in boot camp" I am posting the question in said forum, as to me, it is the appropriate forum for the question. I do not expect ONLY military members to be able to answer my question, so, based on that, your (biochem not posting in that forum) i would never hear what your son/daughter/lovedone has greatly appreciated being sent in the past. I would not hesitate myself in answering what I've sent my son/daughter while s/he was deployed to yyy, even if it was posted in a active duty section, and I dont think i would need to preface my posting with 'im not active duty' this is a forum (a place for discussion of questions of public interest), its up to the Original Poster, or other readers to determine how much weight to place on any given response. some posters, I've already came to my own conclusion as to how much weight i will place on their responses. |
#114
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The OP has a point... but who makes the determination? I don't think I'd like to be the one who has to keep track of that.
Seems pretty clear around here who has done the job and who hasn't. If someone chimes in here and it's plain that they haven't the faintest idea what they're talking about, the FUD flag gets thrown down pretty quick. If it goes farther than that, we have a reporting method and moderation to deal with that if needed. I'm good with that.
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I'm retired. That's right, retired. I don't want to hear about the cop who stopped you today or how you didn't think you should get a ticket. That just makes me grumpy! |
#115
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Sanitation Engineer has a higher rank than garbage man. Can I call you Sarge?
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Any gun owner who does not support the NRA is a freeloader. |
#116
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When I worked the jail, I would tell people I was an "Inventory Control Specialist" for the county. The last thing you do when meeting new people is introduce yourself as a cop.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#117
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Not sure where your going with that? Maybe re-read what I wrote? lol.
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-If you insult me for my grammar errors, what makes you think I understand the insult? -Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Are we done -Voting is like falling off your bike. Sidewalk or street. Both are painful to fall on. But, the sidewalk (Mitt) is closer to the green grass. Last edited by jeep7081; 08-05-2011 at 8:02 PM.. |
#118
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I'll be honest, so far the simplest suggest is the one quoted above. Simply tell people 'I'm not an LEO however..', rarely is it bad to be honest and up front with people. I'm going to talk to the Staff and consider how best to deal with this issue as well as check this thread occasionally as the input from those it affects is weighed in as well. I do want to address a few post that were made however...
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NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member Calguns.net an incorported entity - President. The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President. The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director. DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW! Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA. |
#119
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Calguns is privately owned and the rules are set by the owner. Me.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member Calguns.net an incorported entity - President. The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President. The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director. DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW! Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA. |
#120
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Thanks Kestryll. I am wondering how the trollers and crap stirrers will be dealt with as well. The issues are intertwined to an extent, but the trollers seem to be a bigger problem here most days.
Last edited by Falconis; 08-05-2011 at 8:42 PM.. |
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