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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 10-06-2010, 12:29 PM
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Default Infantryman or Cavalry Scout? What say you?

Hey all your service members, first off, thanks for serving! Secondly. I have been considering joining the Army and would most likely choose 11x or 19D. What are the main differences between the two? Advantages, disadvantages? Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2010, 12:53 PM
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Hey all your service members, first off, thanks for serving! Secondly. I have been considering joining the Army and would most likely choose 11x or 19D. What are the main differences between the two? Advantages, disadvantages? Thanks in advance.
An Infantymans job is to find, close with and destroy the enemy, a Scouts job is to do recconnissence.

Scouts are considered a "jack of all trades" by nature of thier mission while infantrymen are thought of as "bullet catchers".

Both are good jobs, just depends on what kind of person you are. Do you want to go charging headfirst into a firefight, bayonet mounted and guns blazing, or do you wanna sit back in cut, sneakin, peakin, painting a picture of the battlefield for the commander and dropping steel rain on the enemy from 20K away?

Both are fun.
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Old 10-06-2010, 1:40 PM
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I've read that these days they are doing pretty much the same things.
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Old 10-06-2010, 1:52 PM
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Old 10-06-2010, 1:55 PM
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2010, 1:58 PM
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Old 10-06-2010, 2:12 PM
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Hooahh to you brother. I'd say 13B (but I'm a little biased)

Cav all the way brother. Get a little better and more specialized training (ala better weapons training, better survivability training, list list goes on).
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Old 10-06-2010, 2:26 PM
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I love recon but today we do alot of the same.
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Old 10-06-2010, 2:30 PM
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I was both 11B (Infantry) and 19D(Cav Scout). Both are way cool jobs if you like the great outdoors, because you'll be spending a lot of time in the boonies. Infantry does recon, and Cav Scouts do some Infantry stuff, especially if you are in a mech (Bradley) or tank battalion. If you are in one of the straight Cav units, you might be working out of a HMMWV. I'd say either MOS is good if you want to find yourself in combat. IMHO, the only real difference is the Infantry guys get a Combat Infantry Badge, while the others get a Combat Action Badge.

Last edited by 11Z50; 10-06-2010 at 2:34 PM..
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2010, 3:08 PM
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Yes, we do alot of the same but the Scouts are specially trained and equipped to perform a certain recon role that no one else is. IMO, the reason you dont see scouts performing the traditional role is because its not as flashy as kicking in doors and firefights with the enemy, what kind of boring story would it be to report on Scouts doing thier job?

"We sat in a hole with Scouts from XXXCav on OP for 72 hours.

We saw people walking around and doing stuff.

The Scouts talked on the radio.

Sh*t blew up.

That is all"

Scouts doing thier job is not very exciting, but when you know and understand the bigger picture of what we do, it gets real interesting real fast.
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Old 10-06-2010, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
Yes, we do alot of the same but the Scouts are specially trained and equipped to perform a certain recon role that no one else is. IMO, the reason you dont see scouts performing the traditional role is because its not as flashy as kicking in doors and firefights with the enemy, what kind of boring story would it be to report on Scouts doing thier job?

"We sat in a hole with Scouts from XXXCav on OP for 72 hours.

We saw people walking around and doing stuff.

The Scouts talked on the radio.

Sh*t blew up.

That is all"

Scouts doing thier job is not very exciting, but when you know and understand the bigger picture of what we do, it gets real interesting real fast.
Or..... The Cav Scouts screened the flanks of the Mech/Tank task force as it moved to contact with the enemy.

Or..... The Cav Scouts conducted a route reconnaissance of the MSR.

Or..... The Cav Scouts guarded the Brigade Command Post and TOC
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2010, 3:47 PM
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Or..... The Cav Scouts screened the flanks of the Mech/Tank task force as it moved to contact with the enemy.

Or..... The Cav Scouts conducted a route reconnaissance of the MSR.

Or..... The Cav Scouts guarded the Brigade Command Post and TOC
Yeah, try and explain a screen line to someone and they get real bored real quick.

"So what did you do?"

"We sat on a screen line"

"Whats a screen line?"

"Well, you sit in one place for hours on end watching for the enemy."

"What happens if you see em?"

"We report it to higher"

"You dont kill em?"

"Nope, we let the arty, tanks, infantry and aviation guys handle that."

"Wow... sounds boring"

"Yep"

Last edited by CavTrooper; 10-06-2010 at 3:50 PM..
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2010, 4:02 PM
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Yeah, try and explain a screen line to someone and they get real bored real quick.

"So what did you do?"

"We sat on a screen line"

"Whats a screen line?"

"Well, you sit in one place for hours on end watching for the enemy."

"What happens if you see em?"

"We report it to higher"

"You dont kill em?"

"Nope, we let the arty, tanks, infantry and aviation guys handle that."

"Wow... sounds boring"

"Yep"
While certainly I agree the job can be boring, there are certainly moments when the Cav Scout gets a real good pucker factor going. When you do make contact, it is usually very fierce since the enemy wants to kill you before you can report contact. Recon units on both sides are priority targets, and the counter-recon battle is usually very intense. They know you are out there, and we know they are out there. A key part of any operation is locating and killing the enemy's recon elements. It's like blinding your adversary before you kick his azz.

Last edited by 11Z50; 10-06-2010 at 4:07 PM..
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2010, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 11Z50 View Post
While certainly I agree the job can be boring, there are certainly moments when the Cav Scout gets a real good pucker factor going. When you do make contact, it is usually very fierce since the enemy wants to kill you before you can report contact. Recon units on both sides are priority targets, and the counter-recon battle is usually very intense. They know you are out there, and we know they are out there. A key part of any operation is locating and killing the enemy's recon elements. It's like blinding your adversary before you kick his azz.
Exactly right, those are the times that make the job real interesting.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2010, 5:14 PM
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Stay in long enough and you'll likely hold both series of MOS.
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2010, 5:37 PM
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Thanks for the response guys. Both seem like good jobs. If I were to go in for an initial three years, and decided to re-up, would it be hard to change MOS? It would seem like going from 11 series to 19D or vise versa wouldn't be hard since they are both combat arms.
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Old 10-06-2010, 5:48 PM
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Thanks for the response guys. Both seem like good jobs. If I were to go in for an initial three years, and decided to re-up, would it be hard to change MOS? It would seem like going from 11 series to 19D or vise versa wouldn't be hard since they are both combat arms.
If you are in a mech unit like I was it's no problem. Just tell the Sergeant Major you want to swap jobs in the battalion for career progression and it will happen. That's how I did it. I'd say go 11 first, go to Benning, and get that behind you. Once you've been to Benning's school for boys it will take care of you for the duration. The Cav guys that have to go to the Armor AIT (Ft Knox) forever bear that mark. If you go thru Benning, you bow your head to no man.

Last edited by 11Z50; 10-06-2010 at 5:54 PM..
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2010, 6:06 PM
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Boring is good.
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Old 10-06-2010, 6:16 PM
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Boring is good.
Yup....I'd rather be bored than taking incoming or an IED.
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Old 10-06-2010, 6:33 PM
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Yup....I'd rather be bored than taking incoming or an IED.
Yeah, those get old quickly.
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2010, 8:25 PM
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Cav are the eyes of the army. Infantry is one of the fists.

Cav doesn't get the satisfaction much of dealing the punch, but without the cav, the infantry (or armour) won't know where to strike.

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The Cav guys that have to go to the Armor AIT (Ft Knox) forever bear that mark. If you go thru Benning, you bow your head to no man.
Depends on your philosophy. "If you ain't Cav, you ain't S..." has quite the following as well. Good-natured rivalry aside, I've never heard of anyone who wasn't accepted by his new colleagues in an infantry unit because he used to be a scout, and we've been quite happy to accept (with appropriate ribbing) ex 11Bs in our Cav squadron.

As an aside, one of the nice things about wearing sabres is that you don't have to waste two months at Ranger school in order to be taken seriously. It's all but mandatory for an infantry career, it's fairly irrelevant for the armor branch, we'd rather you spend the time learning the cav or tanker role.

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Yes, we do alot of the same but the Scouts are specially trained and equipped to perform a certain recon role that no one else is.
Nail on head. When it comes down to it, the Army has, in its infinite wisdom, declared a battalion-sized element in each brigade to be a recon unit for the purpose of conducting recon for the brigade. The current deployments are such that everyone, from artillery to Engineer plays infantry, but if WWIII broke out in Iran or Korea tomorrow, the Cav unit must be capable of rapidly and accurately reporting reconnaissance information, and needs to be trained to do it: Nobody else will be expected to take on the job. If it means that they're not quite as good at kicking in doors in Afghanistan as the Infantry are, then so be it. A battle can turn on what a single cav E-3 looking through an LRAS reports, so more emphasis on that sort of skill is required.

Ultimately, though both are combat arms and both have to have some sort of similar mentality, Infantry is for those who want to brawl, and Cav is for those who are willing to restrain themselves unless necessary. Personal initiative is also, I submit, more important in the Cav. Not at the tactical level, it's just as critical in the infantry, but operationally: The Cav goes forward in stage 2 or 3 of the MDMP process, whilst the line units are held back until stage 7 so a cav unit usually operates with incomplete information. After all, that's why they exist, to gain the information required by the line battalions.

Personally, I think I'd prefer to be a tanker than a cav officer, but I am of no doubt that my personal skills and mentality are better used in recon than they are in infantry. To those that choose to be infantry, more power to them. It's just not really for me.

NTM
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Old 10-07-2010, 5:31 AM
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I am a commo guy but I roll out on missions with a platoon of scouts everyday. They are teaching me their ways. I pull security and dismount with them. I don't have much experience with infantry but I am considering reclassing to 19D. You can re-class when you reup. My window opens next October. Only a couple months after I get back from Iraq.
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  #23  
Old 10-07-2010, 5:33 AM
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Combat Engineers...

Come be a drunkard with dynamite...


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  #24  
Old 10-07-2010, 6:50 AM
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Its all a pit the Queen of Battle baby. I may be a little biased though.
Honestly I had the best of both worlds: infantryman assinged to a cav division (1st cavalry).
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Old 10-07-2010, 7:46 AM
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I was lucky enough to be in an old-school Air Cav unit back in the day. I was an 11B in an Aero Rifle Platoon Bravo Troop 3-5 Cav. That was the shizz. As a recon team leader I had my own helicopter. I also did some time as an Aero Scout riding left seat in an OH-58.

Later, I was a 19D in a Mech Infantry Battalion Scout Platoon. Again, that was a hoot.

I was also a line doggie grunt for many years, I went from Basic Rifleman to Platoon Sergeant. I served in light, mech and TOW (Anti-Armor) Infantry companies. I went to Battalion staff and spent about 10 years in the S-2 (intel) and the S-3 (ops). I retired as the Battalion Ops NCO hence 11Z50.

I really enjoyed working in the TOC helping to coordinate and control the fight. It helped that I had a scout background and could work closely with them as the Ops NCO.

As for the Cav/Grunt brotherly rivalry, I can tell you it will always be there. But it is a brotherhood, and many 11Bs become Scouts and vice-versa during a career in the Combat Arms. I really feel for the 11C's in an Armor Battalion Mortar Platoon....talk about orphans!

In fact, in a Battalion TF there are many MOS's that interact. Infantry, Tankers, Scouts, Engineers, Forward Observers, Commo, and yes even Loggies are all part of the team. Just keep the MP's away from us!
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Old 10-07-2010, 7:47 AM
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Combat Engineers...

Come be a drunkard with dynamite...


Are you a Combat Engineer? I have been thinking about re-classing to that also. I don't have much experience with them. There was a platoon here for a couple weeks and I talked to them whenever I ran into them but that's it.

How do you like it? What do you normally do?
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Old 10-07-2010, 8:53 AM
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As for the Cav/Grunt brotherly rivalry, I can tell you it will always be there. But it is a brotherhood, and many 11Bs become Scouts and vice-versa during a career in the Combat Arms. I really feel for the 11C's in an Armor Battalion Mortar Platoon....talk about orphans!

In fact, in a Battalion TF there are many MOS's that interact. Infantry, Tankers, Scouts, Engineers, Forward Observers, Commo, and yes even Loggies are all part of the team. Just keep the MP's away from us!
No truer words were ever spoken! I agree with all of the above. I loved being an 11C in Armor. We actually got alot of respect from our officers and senior NCO's. We also got ALOT of **** details, but so did the 19D's.

That being said you have to ask yourself if you want to fight or not. Scouts are recon, if they get into a fight its because they screwed up. We, the Infantry, are tasked with seeking out and killing the enemy. I wanted to fight and kill the enemies of my country, which is why I enlisted 11X.
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Old 10-07-2010, 9:52 AM
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Go Infantry with Airborne in your contract then Ranger and SF.

I started in Airborne and ended in Cav. I was not impressed with what I experienced with the legs. Needless to say, I got out of the Army from there.

Go Infantry. You'll thank me later.
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Old 10-07-2010, 7:48 PM
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Thanks a ton guys. Both seem pretty cool. Fortunately, I know a guy who is a current 19D NCO, and a current Pvt.2 11B in the Stan right now. The 11 guy just got pinned the purple heart by Robert Gates a few weeks back. He is gonna be on leave for a few weeks soon, so I plan on having a chat with him and I can always E-mail the other 19D guy. Thanks again! But I don't know, hard charging into the fight against an enemy seems like it could be an interesting job..but then again so does sneaking around the boonies and watching their every move sounds good too. ??? Thanks guys.
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Old 10-07-2010, 7:54 PM
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I've always had a love for the 19 series...
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Old 10-07-2010, 8:02 PM
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LRS. Be a badass 11B.
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Old 10-07-2010, 8:33 PM
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Scouts are recon, if they get into a fight its because they screwed up.
If actingin the Cover or Guard roles, they're out there to fight. It's just not common as the offensive roles or screen.

NTM
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:21 PM
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If actingin the Cover or Guard roles, they're out there to fight. It's just not common as the offensive roles or screen.

NTM
Anyone can be put out on patrol, but its not their core mission. They are an intel asset. The eyes and ears of the battallion commander. Where as an Infantryman you may be detailed to do other tasks, but your only reason for existing is to go out, find and kill the enemy.
Not that I have anything against scouts, cool guys and I worked alot with them as a mortarman.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:23 PM
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Thanks a ton guys. Both seem pretty cool. Fortunately, I know a guy who is a current 19D NCO, and a current Pvt.2 11B in the Stan right now. The 11 guy just got pinned the purple heart by Robert Gates a few weeks back. He is gonna be on leave for a few weeks soon, so I plan on having a chat with him and I can always E-mail the other 19D guy. Thanks again! But I don't know, hard charging into the fight against an enemy seems like it could be an interesting job..but then again so does sneaking around the boonies and watching their every move sounds good too. ??? Thanks guys.
Just remember that their perspectives are going to be VERY different! I didn't really start to have fun as an Infantryman until I got stripes, and the whole time I was a joe I didn't realize what I was missing, in regards to fun and responsibility.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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Are you a Combat Engineer? I have been thinking about re-classing to that also. I don't have much experience with them. There was a platoon here for a couple weeks and I talked to them whenever I ran into them but that's it.

How do you like it? What do you normally do?
When i get back to the states we will link up via phone. I dont feel like typing that much.
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2010, 11:48 AM
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LRS. Be a badass 11B.

Thats the ticket...LRS
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Old 10-08-2010, 8:38 PM
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Anyone can be put out on patrol, but its not their core mission. They are an intel asset. The eyes and ears of the battallion commander. Where as an Infantryman you may be detailed to do other tasks, but your only reason for existing is to go out, find and kill the enemy.
Not that I have anything against scouts, cool guys and I worked alot with them as a mortarman.
That's just it. People seem to think that 'recon' is the only primary role of the cavalry, but historically this has never been the case. Copying from the FM:
"The fundamental role of the squadron is conducting reconnaissance or security missions in support of its higher headquarters." (Manual's emphasis)

Cover, Guard and Screen are core functions of the cav. Indeed, as they are economy of force missions, they should be less likely to be assigned to a 'line' battalion. One of the major flaws with the current HBCT MTOE, and one which has generated no small amount of dicussion in the cav community, is that the cav unit is incapable of conducting the Cover role without external support: The only unit which could do it was 3rd ACR, and that's going away. Even at that, the manual says that the Squadron is only capable of performing 'Guard' when enemy capabilities permit (i.e. the opposition doesn't bring tanks). Doesn't say it's not their job, just acknowledges officially that it's not equipped to do its job well.

Guard, as defined by the FM: (My emphasis)
"A form of security operation whose primary task is to protect the main force by fighting to gain time while also observing and reporting information, and to prevent enemy ground observation of and direct fire against the main body by reconnoitering, attacking, defending, and delaying."

Cav gets trained to fight in conventional, high-intensity combat, not to just sneak around, observe and report. Just the Army hasn't met an opponent in recent decades which has been able to force the US onto the defensive.

NTM

Last edited by Manic Moran; 10-08-2010 at 8:44 PM..
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Old 10-09-2010, 1:15 AM
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When i get back to the states we will link up via phone. I dont feel like typing that much.
When do you get back to the states? I will be on R&R sometime around February. I don't really have access to a phone out here though.
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Old 10-09-2010, 4:31 AM
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When do you get back to the states? I will be on R&R sometime around February. I don't really have access to a phone out here though.
Ah, gotcha. Ill be back at the end of the month. I will hit you up then.

But to answer the initial question...I love being an Engineer

I am expected to break ****, blow **** up and drink heavily...
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Old 10-09-2010, 5:17 AM
thebloodsonthewall thebloodsonthewall is offline
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Ah, gotcha. Ill be back at the end of the month. I will hit you up then.

But to answer the initial question...I love being an Engineer

I am expected to break ****, blow **** up and drink heavily...
Awesome, sounds good. Thanks.
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