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  #41  
Old 09-28-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
Your question seems to assume that the NWO-- whatever that means to you-- somehow altered the trajectory of mankind in a significant way. I wonder, could that really be true?

I don't understand how that relates to other religions, unless you are suggesting that the NWO is some kind of religion in and of itself. I don't really know what you mean by NWO, so I can't speak to that directly, but I do believe that secularism is a religious faith (with a different set of values than Christianity). Whatever meaning you attach to NWO, I don't imagine you will find members of the invisible church building that kingdom, so if you agree that whatever people push the NWO are secular folk, then I can agree, it is a part of secular faith, and yes, Satan is happy to use it as well.

I have a huge amount of respect for a particular commentary on end times prophecy, and one thing that the author teaches is the significant role of a single government that rules the whole world just before tribulation. A verse he cites is Daniel 7:23, which reads:



Of course, read it in context to make sure you're getting it right. I hope that helps...

With the above comments and quotes, socialism seems to be the starting point of the single world government. Its foundation is based on lies.
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  #42  
Old 09-30-2019, 6:53 AM
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Default Does the devil use other religions to divide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
A fellow member of Christian faith shared the idea that other religions besides Christianity are basically cults. Specifically other religions divide worshipers by denouncing God and Jesus, or require an intermediary (the church or priest) instead of focusing on your direct personal relationship with Jesus. If this is true, is the devil using other religions to 'divide and conquer'?

What do you think? Have you experienced anything in your own life that supports or refutes this? Thank you for sharing.
Religion is man's search for god. Wherein the individual seeking a god or eternal reward must do something in order to attain the desired reward. Reincarnation, jihad, human sacrifice, monetary payment, repeated chants are examples of earning said favor in their religion.

Christianity is God's search for man. It is unique among all beliefs. "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." - Luke 19:10 (See also Genesis 3:9) Therefore, Christianity is unlike all other religions.

We know that the teaching of Moses was corrupted by men with their human traditions. Jesus said it was because of the devil. See John 8:31-47 for the complete dialog. The Pharisees had added their traditions to the commands of God. They obtained their lofty religious goals of stature and preeminence. But the bottom line is verse 44 where Jesus told the Pharisees; "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." So, yes, the devil uses religion to divide and deceive. That divide seperates people from the truth that salvation and redemption to God is only by faith in God's Son, Jesus Christ and His free gift of mercy and of grace.
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  #43  
Old 09-30-2019, 9:39 AM
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Absolutely correct Bro ! # 42 is right.

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  #44  
Old 10-03-2019, 8:34 PM
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Isn't it a tad ironic that every religion claims that every other religion's god is false. Surely an all-powerful omnipotent loving god wouldn't care that someone who loves him had the misfortune to be born in the 'wrong' culture/religion/location, and then damned to suffer and not be saved just because of it. I don't think God cares.
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2019, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
Isn't it a tad ironic that every religion claims that every other religion's god is false. Surely an all-powerful omnipotent loving god wouldn't care that someone who loves him had the misfortune to be born in the 'wrong' culture/religion/location, and then damned to suffer and not be saved just because of it. I don't think God cares.
False.
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  #46  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
Isn't it a tad ironic that every religion claims that every other religion's god is false. Surely an all-powerful omnipotent loving god wouldn't care that someone who loves him had the misfortune to be born in the 'wrong' culture/religion/location, and then damned to suffer and not be saved just because of it. I don't think God cares.
A tad arrogant is how I would word it.

Christians claim that their way is the only way to The Father.
Everyone else is going to hell.
That includes God's "chosen people" (the Jews)

Uh-huh, uh-huh.
I don't think so.
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  #47  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:21 AM
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Fair enough. Do you think it is possible the devil is manipulating the NWO and Agenda 21?
Most Definitely.
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  #48  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
Isn't it a tad ironic that every religion claims that every other religion's god is false. Surely an all-powerful omnipotent loving god wouldn't care that someone who loves him had the misfortune to be born in the 'wrong' culture/religion/location, and then damned to suffer and not be saved just because of it. I don't think God cares.
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
A tad arrogant is how I would word it.

Christians claim that their way is the only way to The Father.
Everyone else is going to hell.
That includes God's "chosen people" (the Jews)

Uh-huh, uh-huh.
I don't think so.
What both of you are saying, in effect, is that it is narrow for Christians to claim that there is only one way to God. But it is at least as narrow for you to say "you Christians are wrong, my opinion is right."
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  #49  
Old 10-05-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
A tad arrogant is how I would word it.

Christians claim that their way is the only way to The Father.
Everyone else is going to hell.
That includes God's "chosen people" (the Jews)

Uh-huh, uh-huh.
I don't think so.
^^^A common misperception that’s made from those that clearly do not understand Christianity, nor the Christian Bible.

Romans 1:14-16 (NIV)
14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Paul tells us in Galatians...

Galatians 3:26-29 (NIV)
26-So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heir according to the promise.

1Peter 2:9-10 (KJV)
9-But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10-Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

(*** In the OT, Israel was called God's "chosen people." In the NT, "believers" are designated as chosen, or elect. “Royal priesthood.”)

(***In Hosea, it is Israel who is NOT God's people; in Romans it is the Gentiles to whom Paul applies Hosea's words; in 1 Peter the words are applied to both. )

Paul says:

Romans 1:14-16 (NIV)
14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
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  #50  
Old 10-06-2019, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
^^^A common misperception that’s made from those that clearly do not understand Christianity, nor the Christian Bible.

Paul tells us in Galatians...

Galatians 3:26-29 (NIV)
26-So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heir according to the promise.
A common misperception?
Please explain because you seemed to have forgotten what Jesus said...
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It sounds to me that you have to be Christian in order to get to the Father.
Jews are not Christian.
What's not to understand?
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  #51  
Old 10-06-2019, 3:34 PM
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1 NO ONE can get to Heaven by ANY OTHER WAY, but belief in, and on Christ. You must:

Renounce your sins, and ask forgiveness.
You must FOLLOW Christ.

Yes, even Gods "Chosen" people will go to hell. Did you not KNOW, there are Jews, that DO believe in Christ? They are growing by the number by the day. Why? Because THEY know what the truth is.

Sacrificing a lamb isn't going to save you.
Praying to Mary, isn't going to save you.
Praying to "Allah", most CERTAINLY isn't going to save you.

Repent your SINS, and follow CHRIST. THAT'S what will save you.
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  #52  
Old 10-06-2019, 3:50 PM
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Since the Jews don't believe in Heaven, I wouldn't think they'd care about your opinion. They don't believe in Hell either, so...

Dogmatic methods used to divide us and hate each other is Satan's work, so if you're insisting that only your way is the right way, you're doing Satan's work.

Have a lovely day and if you could provide your future address in a particular circle of Hell, I'd appreciate it.
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2019, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
A common misperception?
Please explain because you seemed to have forgotten what Jesus said...
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It sounds to me that you have to be Christian in order to get to the Father.
Jews are not Christian.
What's not to understand?
You didn’t read the Bible versus I posted. It explains everything. It doesn’t matter what one’s “bloodline” is. Jew, Greek, Asian, Latino, European, etc.... all that matters is believing in Christ. Believe that he died for your sins, that He is Lord, and that we (you and I,) are all sinners that need to repent. This is how we are saved.

Being Jewish or should I say.... DNA has NOTHING to do with salvation. Zero, zip, zilch!

However being a believer in Christ has EVERYTHING to do with one’s salvation from eternal hell, regardless of race, sex, nationality or DNA.

The end.
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  #54  
Old 10-08-2019, 9:55 AM
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You didn’t read the Bible versus I posted. It explains everything. It doesn’t matter what one’s “bloodline” is. Jew, Greek, Asian, Latino, European, etc.... all that matters is believing in Christ. Believe that he died for your sins, that He is Lord, and that we (you and I,) are all sinners that need to repent. This is how we are saved.

Being Jewish or should I say.... DNA has NOTHING to do with salvation. Zero, zip, zilch!

However being a believer in Christ has EVERYTHING to do with one’s salvation from eternal hell, regardless of race, sex, nationality or DNA.

The end.
The end,.....not quite.

Yes I read your Bible verses.
The issue is that if you are not a Christian, you are going to hell.
So say most Christians.
That is what you are saying.
I'm saying that I do not believe that.

Are the Jews God's chosen people? The answer is yes.
Are they Christian? The answer is no.
Are the Jews going to hell? According to Christians - yes.

That was the point.
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  #55  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Christianity is God's search for man. It is unique among all beliefs. "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." - Luke 19:10 (See also Genesis 3:9) Therefore, Christianity is unlike all other religions.
Oh, I must find this entertaining because... Here I am again...

Christianity is NOT unique in this respect at all. The entire gnostic philosophy is based on this singular idea. There were/are gnostic jews, pagans, christians, zoroastrians, muslims, etc. Hell, isn't the entire Jewish tradition based on this idea of God saving us? He came to save humanity from sin by first coming to one family (Noah), then another (Abraham), then another (David) and then some future Messiah... Then Jesus came & figured he'd try to "save" all Jews. Then Paul came along & said, well, let's just throw everybody else in there, too. Then Constantine thought he could do it via political means. Mohammed figured out how to take it up a notch & do it in the Near & Middle East. If you ask me (admittedly, you didn't -- why would you?), it's just one botched salvation attempt after another. This doesn't even take into consideration all the non-Abrahamic faiths like Buddhism (the gnostics of the East), fertility religions & pagan traditions (Ba'al saving us from winter by rising again). We civilized folks are obsessed with the salvation narrative. It's even part of our civil religion (save us from tyranny, communism, terrorism, etc.). And why not? It's a good story.

I'll just be frank here. If God really loved humanity, he'd learn to accept it for what it is, warts and all instead of trying to make them "perfect" or "obedient." Humans don't need to be saved any more than a skunk needs to be saved. We're fine... on average. Plenty of nitwits & crazies among us, me included. But, on the whole, as designed/evolved, we're already perfectly suited for our environment. Maybe not the one we created (much of it thanks to the influences of religion, among other things) -- but the one we were given.

I'll readily concede that Christianity may be perfect and uniquely-suited FOR YOU. I'll even say that it might be uniquely-suited for a culture (with more than a few caveats). But it is not unique in its message or ideas. It borrowed extensively from just about every known religion of its time & many before. It didn't come from outer space & land on earth. It developed here on earth by people who are always limited in our scope of understanding to what we can know from our environment. The book of Genesis says the God made mankind in his image. I think the author got it completely backwards. We have always made God in OUR image. And, to the original question, that is mostly why we have so many religions dividing us.

Last edited by CVShooter; 10-10-2019 at 12:28 PM..
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  #56  
Old 10-09-2019, 2:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
You didn’t read the Bible versus I posted. It explains everything. It doesn’t matter what one’s “bloodline” is. Jew, Greek, Asian, Latino, European, etc.... all that matters is believing in Christ. Believe that he died for your sins, that He is Lord, and that we (you and I,) are all sinners that need to repent. This is how we are saved.

Being Jewish or should I say.... DNA has NOTHING to do with salvation. Zero, zip, zilch!

However being a believer in Christ has EVERYTHING to do with one’s salvation from eternal hell, regardless of race, sex, nationality or DNA.

The end.
But DNA does relate to you being a christian. If you're born in Yorba Linda there's a much better chance that you'll even have a chance to hear about Christianity than if you're born in Vietnam or Pakistan, no?
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Old 10-10-2019, 6:29 AM
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Romans 11.1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, fna descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3“Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.”
4But what fnis the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”
5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s fngracious choice.
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer fnon the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
7What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but fnthose who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
8just as it is written,
“GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.”
9And David says,
“LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10“LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.”
11I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fnfulfillment be!
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fnfellow countrymen and save some of them.
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the fnrich root of the olive tree,
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
27“THIS IS fnMY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”
28fnFrom the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but fnfrom the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33Oh, the depth of the riches fnboth of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?
35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM fnTHAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?
36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory fnforever. Amen.

NASB Footnotes
(11:1)
Literally: of the seed of Abraham
(11:4)
Literally: says
(11:5)
Literally: choice of grace
(11:6)
Literally: out of
(11:7)
Literally: the election
(11:12)
Or, fullness
(11:14)
Literally: flesh
(11:17)
Literally: root of the fatness
(11:27)
Literally: the covenant from Me
(11:28)
Literally: According to the gospel
(11:28)
Literally: according to the election
(11:33)
Or, and the wisdom
(11:35)
Literally: and it will be paid back
(11:36)
Literally: to the ages

Last edited by Jn316; 10-17-2019 at 5:50 AM..
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  #58  
Old 10-11-2019, 4:21 PM
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But DNA does relate to you being a christian. If you're born in Yorba Linda there's a much better chance that you'll even have a chance to hear about Christianity than if you're born in Vietnam or Pakistan, no?
Good question bhp1420. So, the absence of truth does not damn us, but the despising of truth damns.

Romans chapter 2. Paul explains that we have the light of conscience. God has written a knowledge of himself upon the tablet of our conscience. Jesus makes plane that if we respond to light then we will be given more light. If we reject light then God will remain shrouded in obscurity.

Paschal was right. God dwells in enough light so that if we want to find it, we will. And he dwells in enough obscurity so that if we don't want to find him, we won't. So if they respond in Hong Kong or Africa or Vietnam or anywhere else to the light of creation, and the light of conscience, then they will get further light. But if they do not then they will remain in darkness.

The way Jesus explained this to Nicodemus, and he's the ultimate authority, he said light came into darkness, men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. So the problem wasn't not enough light, men love darkness.

Titus 2:11 (KJV)-
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,"

Romans teaches that God will judge people on what they know and are capable of knowing. We can know right and wrong and know there is one true God. Job did, Jethro did and many others, some more not directly and indirectly. All can instinctively know his moral code and know they have sinned, as Paul writes they are "without excuse." Because we are made in His image and have a moral likeness built in.

Jeremiah 29
-I love those that seek me and find me.

The “Light” is there for everyone to apprehend if they will listen. All men are given the light to find it themselves.

Proverbs 8:17 (NASB)
“I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.

Jeremiah 29:13 (NKJV)
-And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
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  #59  
Old 10-15-2019, 5:56 PM
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The end,.....not quite.

Yes I read your Bible verses...
Are the Jews God's chosen people? The answer is yes.
Are they Christian? The answer is no.
Are the Jews going to hell? According to Christians - yes.

That was the point.
Sorry for the late response Rizzo. I replied a few days ago to someone else’s question and accidently skipped past the other responses. Yours caught my eye just now.....

Your answers are your opinion, but they are definatley NOT SUPPORTED biblically to say the least. Many people like you are confused as to what the Bible really says about “God’s chosen, elect, called or Royal Priesthood,” when referring to Christians.

“Are the Jews God’s Chosen people?”

Well, God‘s chosen people is “Israel”, according to Deuteronomy 7:6-8 and 14:2....and so is the Christian community (see 1 Peter 2:9)

1 Peter 2:9-10 (NIV-84)
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10-Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

** chosen people.** See Ephesians 1: 4-14. As Israel was called God‘s chosen people in the Old Testament, so in the New Testament believers are designated as CHOSEN or ELECT. A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD..

People belonging to God. Though once not the people of God, they are now the recipients of God‘s mercy. See Romans 10:19 below:

Romans 10:19 (ESV)
But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry “

ROMANS 9:25-26 (ESV)
As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” 26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

Romans 10:12 (NIV)
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him. 13-For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

True Israel consists of people from "every tribe and tongue and people and nation
Everything that was promised to Abraham and his descendants in the OT, is offered to people in the NT.

Ephesians 2:14-22 (ESV)
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Those who call Jesus Lord, are the “true Israel”...

Romans 9:1-9: (NIV)
9 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. 6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. FOR NOT ALL WHO ARE DESCENDED FROM ISRAEL ARE ISRAEL. 7 NOR BECAUSE THEY ARE HIS DESCENDANTS ARE THEY ALL ABRAHAM's CHILDREN. On the contrary, It is through Isaac that your offspring will be "reckoned." (or "named" in NASB). 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Amen.
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Old 10-20-2019, 7:14 PM
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Heathenry has no need for a "devil" figure, per se. However, Loki, jotuns, Ymir, etc. all do a fairly yeoman's service job of demonstrating the power of lies, capriciousness, and chaos.

We also understand that while people should strive for honor, there are those who freely choose to be complete pieces of sh*t. Backstabbers, oath breakers, general blue falcons, etc.

But evil is real, and has utilized various religions or religious groups to do evil sh*t. Charlemagne waged a religious war against the Heathen Saxons and issued his (in)famous convert or die order. And he meant it. Harald Blue Tooth was little better. And the Ottomans certainly had little problem spreading the Mohammedan faith over piles of corpses and severed heads.

Did a devil make them do it? Maybe so. Regardless of their reasons, Jim Jones or Sultan Mehmed II, makes little difference. They sucked in life and I hope they are smoking some serious underworld schlong in Helheim.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:58 PM
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...the idea that other religions besides Christianity... ...require an intermediary (the church or priest) instead of focusing on your direct personal relationship with Jesus.

Wait what? So groups which place emphasis on 1) the Church (which is Biblical) and 2) priests of God (which is Biblical) are not Christians?


If you're saying this, then you're saying Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Anglo-Catholics, Methodists, Reformed, Presbyterians, and probably many others I'm forgetting, are not Christians. All of these violate 1), 2) or both. Some of them while they don't use the word priest, have ministers of the sacrament who are necessary in matters of liturgy, which are necessary functions of the Church, and they may even consider necessary for salvation.



It suddenly occurs to me to ask... who is doing the dividing here? Are you sure it's not you? I fall into one of the groups I listed and while I may disagree even pretty severely with some of the other groups, I would at least say they are Christians.



I'd also like to know what denomination or denominations you consider to be Christian, which ones you don't, and a list of basic beliefs you believe to be marks of true Christianity, as well as some that disqualify one from being a Christian. If you don't like that format for doing this, just give me your take, in one way or another, on what makes someone a Christian, and not someone who's part of "a religion other than Christianity."



I don't mean any disrespect, I really don't. If any of this sounds salty it's just the limitation of communicating in text and not face to face. If you profess Jesus Christ I do consider you a brother in Christ. I'm just genuinely confused by what you wrote or at least how I interpreted it. Can you please set me straight on this one?
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Old 10-25-2019, 9:46 AM
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Jesus said. Satan is the ruler of this world. Which answers many questions of why things are always in a mess here.

Yes, the devil does all he can to use any method to cause hate, division, and murder in religion and all places in this relm.
^^^

Not only does the devil use other religions he uses Christianity. Perfect example there is a guy on FB with page after page of Trump bashing. When people call him on fake news he directs them "look at my Bio you will see I am a Minister"

Using his Religious status to give credibility to his hate.

Just sad.
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Old 10-25-2019, 9:49 AM
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I don't believe in a devil.
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:10 AM
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The end,.....not quite.

Yes I read your Bible verses.
The issue is that if you are not a Christian, you are going to hell.
So say most Christians.
That is what you are saying.
I'm saying that I do not believe that.

Are the Jews God's chosen people? The answer is yes.
Are they Christian? The answer is no.
Are the Jews going to hell? According to Christians - yes.

That was the point.
Here's the link to Rabbi Schneider preaching the Gospel. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...ider&FORM=VDRE There are Jewish believers who will be saved.

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Old 10-28-2019, 8:44 PM
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[...]There are Jewish believers who will be saved.
I think personal testimony is far more compelling. Many Jews have accepted Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah. You can see many interesting personal testimonies online.

For example:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
[...]

Are the Jews God's chosen people? The answer is yes.
Are they Christian? The answer is no.
Are the Jews going to hell? According to Christians - yes.

That was the point.
The Jews are God's chosen people, that is correct. But their history, recorded in the Bible, shows that they consistently disobeyed God, and not only did they bring on themselves all the curses recorded in the Torah, but they also failed to recognize the time of their visitation. By the time of Jesus of Nazareth, the Jews had elevated the Mishnah— rabbinic traditions and teachings— to the level of scripture. The Pharisaic Jews at the time of Jesus believed that Messiah would be a Pharisee, and in truth, the main reason they rejected Jesus as Messiah was because He rejected Pharisaic Judaism, a great example of how Satan used their religion against them. Those Pharisees never disputed that Jesus did miracles.
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Old 10-29-2019, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
I think personal testimony is far more compelling. Many Jews have accepted Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah. You can see many interesting personal testimonies online.

For example:





The Jews are God's chosen people, that is correct. But their history, recorded in the Bible, shows that they consistently disobeyed God, and not only did they bring on themselves all the curses recorded in the Torah, but they also failed to recognize the time of their visitation. By the time of Jesus of Nazareth, the Jews had elevated the Mishnah— rabbinic traditions and teachings— to the level of scripture. The Pharisaic Jews at the time of Jesus believed that Messiah would be a Pharisee, and in truth, the main reason they rejected Jesus as Messiah was because He rejected Pharisaic Judaism, a great example of how Satan used their religion against them. Those Pharisees never disputed that Jesus did miracles.
Great testimony. My post was in response to a mischaracterization that "Christians believe Jews won't go to heaven", but in a gentle way. Galatians, 3:28 is another difficult concept for unbelievers to grasp. BTW, the Rabbi's testimony has some interesting parallels to the one you posted. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...9&&FORM=VRDGAR

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Old 10-29-2019, 8:42 AM
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Satan is the ruler of Earth, and God is of the Heavens?
Greed/Wealth changes the mind of everyone? Ex. Televangelists and some if not all Pastors? Ex. Almost all high ranking "official" at churches drives around in Luxury vehicles.

Look at how many same denomination Christian churches there are in OC, SD, and LA there are. If they all have the same belief, why not join forces?
Or is it because Churches are also Businesses?

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Old 10-30-2019, 12:41 AM
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A common misperception?
Please explain because you seemed to have forgotten what Jesus said...
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It sounds to me that you have to be Christian in order to get to the Father.
Jews are not Christian.
What's not to understand?

There's honestly a lot to not understand, evidently, because a lot of people continue to raise this point of what will happen to people who die without the Gospel. I don't blame people for misunderstanding, I blame a lack of catechesis and Christian instruction. Unfortunately we're living in times where people are less educated in the faith than ever. I became an atheist on a lot of false premises I had about the faith. It took a lot for me to come back to faith.

The Catholic Church, the Orthodox, and most of the mainline Protestant churches have never taught that if a person, through no fault of their own, never received the Gospel, they are going to Hell. Little babies die every day who are not even old enough to understand words. Children die before reaching any age to which they can be held accountable. And for many years, maybe even now, there are people who die having never heard of Jesus. No sane, educated religious person thinks these are cases of souls that will go to Hell.

To address the verse you quote, the main takeaway from what Christ is saying here is that He is the primary intercessor between mankind and God the Father. So, this scripture is revealing to us more about the role of God the Son. People who die without having received the Gospel, who didn't even have a chance to accept or reject it, are not going straight to Hell because they lost the "geographical lottery" as it has been put. The rejection of Christ, of God, have to be voluntary acts. Those who are to see God in the next life will be interceded for by Christ, so the scripture is consistent. So to put it in simple, human terms, even if people fall incredibly short but God has seen fit to use his veto powers, it will be God the Son who is the way to the Father, He will do it in the next life under circumstances that are not known to us, but it will still be Christ, and His Church.

Some people have accused Catholics, for instance, of saying everyone who's not Catholic goes to Hell. While it's true that there is the doctrine extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (outside the Church there is no salvation) we have never professed that means all people who don't subscribe to the Church go to Hell. To understand this you have to understand the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church, that is to say its teaching on what the Church is. The Church is the body of Christ and an outgrowth founded by Christ, and all salvation is through Christ, with the Church being something of a vehicle for that salvation. It exists on this earth physically but it is also a supernatural institution that extends into the next life. Thus it is Christ who will save, and communion with His Church they will receive when they pass from this world, even in those cases of people who die outside of the sacraments, or who die having never received the Gospel, or maybe even people of other religions who died virtuous, that God has willed to save. He has bound us to His sacraments but He cannot be bound by His own or else He would not be God.

Now in truth, none of this should be interpreted as "do whatever you want, God will probably still let you off the hook" and I do fear for the souls of others; you mention Jewish people and for some they very, very knowingly and forcefully reject Christ. But I do not condemn anyone to Hell, as that is orders of magnitude above my paygrade (it is God's business alone.) I simply try to spread the Gospel, and I pray for people and for their souls.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:59 PM
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Great testimony. My post was in response to a mischaracterization that "Christians believe Jews won't go to heaven", but in a gentle way. Galatians, 3:28 is another difficult concept for unbelievers to grasp. BTW, the Rabbi's testimony has some interesting parallels to the one you posted. [...]
The Galations 3:28 reference isn't clear to me.

I'm not Jewish, but I have read/seen that the reaction of family to Jews who go public with their belief that Jesus of Nazareth is/was Messiah is often very, very negative. Many of the testimonies of Messianic Jews on YouTube and elsewhere will mention this fact.

One Messianic Jewish commentator that I read shared that his parents eventually disowned him because of his Christian faith, but that God provided him with three separate surrogate families by the time he finished his undergraduate studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbn620 View Post
There's honestly a lot to not understand, evidently, because a lot of people continue to raise this point of what will happen to people who die without the Gospel. I don't blame people for misunderstanding, I blame a lack of catechesis and Christian instruction. Unfortunately we're living in times where people are less educated in the faith than ever. I became an atheist on a lot of false premises I had about the faith. It took a lot for me to come back to faith.

The Catholic Church, the Orthodox, and most of the mainline Protestant churches have never taught that if a person, through no fault of their own, never received the Gospel, they are going to Hell. Little babies die every day who are not even old enough to understand words. Children die before reaching any age to which they can be held accountable. And for many years, maybe even now, there are people who die having never heard of Jesus. No sane, educated religious person thinks these are cases of souls that will go to Hell.

[...]
I think you should be careful regarding what you are saying here. You seem to be suggesting that adults in many of the unreached people groups who have existed at various times in history, and continue to exist, somehow "get a pass," so to speak, and don't need saving faith just because they never heard the gospel message. That is absolutely not a position embraced by mainline Protestant denominations. Babies and children who die are different from adults that die, and it is clear from scripture that not everyone is saved. Of course, this begs the question, who, then, can be saved?

There are many questions and peripheral issues that often come up in discussions regarding salvation. Somewhat obviously, a post here on CG is probably not the ideal vehicle for treating them in depth, so suffice it to say, it is important to keep first things first. This thread was started by someone asking, in effect, what Satan uses to divide, and the best answer is what doesn't Satan use to divide? Has Satan used false teaching to sow division among Christians? Yes, as prophesied by Messiah Himself.

I'm not looking for an argument or a quarrel, but as a believer, called to speak the truth in love, I think the Catholic church, in particular, is also a great example of Satan using false teaching to divide. Protestants have rightly raised many issues that professing Catholics would do well to at least consider.

As CVShooter alluded to in a different thread, the evolution of the Catholic position on Mary, the mother of Jesus, for example, is well-documented in Catholic source materials. If one cares to confront this, there are a series of well-known debates between the late Christian apologist Walter Martin and Mitchell Pacwa, S.J., Ph.D., on YouTube, which might be a good starting point. Admittedly, these aired on the John Ankerberg show, and both Ankerberg and Martin are Protestant, but in these debates they provide citations from Catholic source materials so that the viewers can see evidence of how the official Catholic position on Mary changed over time, and regarding other issues as well. The debate regarding Mary is below.



To be fair, Protestant doctrines have also changed over time, and one prominent example is the now-widespread belief in a pre-tribulation rapture. Not everyone agrees.
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Old 11-11-2019, 7:10 AM
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You know it's been a few days and I missed the discussion, going through some things over here. I plan to respond to this in full but can't this morning. I also owe someone else a response in the thread about Israel. Anyways, to start I'll at least say thanks for the warning to be careful, that is always good advice, I'm willing to admit I might have a dish of crow to eat for not choosing my words, which I'll take a second look at tonight. And I will certainly watch the video though not sure what that has to do with this particular discussion. Thanks.
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Old 11-11-2019, 7:30 PM
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Great testimony. My post was in response to a mischaracterization that "Christians believe Jews won't go to heaven", but in a gentle way. Galatians, 3:28 is another difficult concept for unbelievers to grasp. BTW, the Rabbi's testimony has some interesting parallels to the one you posted. [...]
That rabbi gives his testimony in the same series:

Kirt Schneider testimony:



Some of his testimony has common elements with the testimony of former Muslims who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah. I once spoke with a missionary to Muslim countries and he said that without exception, the former Muslims he knew that had converted did so in response to a dream in which Jesus of Nazareth appeared to them.

Some of what he said resonated with me. I went to the B'not Mitzvah for the daughters of someone I know. It was at a very famous, wealthy synagogue here on the left coast. I went expecting to hear a message that might yield something of interest. While the service, framed by the impressive venue, was interesting, I was greatly disappointed by what seemed to me the shallowness and superficiality of the message. Knowing some families have attended this synagogue for generations, I felt sad for them, if that was an example of the normal preaching which took place there. I wondered, how can you get fed here with that kind of pablum?
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