DON'T use wet brass tumbler????

[nahpungnome]

Originally Posted by Metal God

Oh yea I just started wet tumbling and I can feel a real difference with how hard it is to size cases on my turret press . It's the price I have to pay to keep the contaminates down in the house with the 2yr old grandson running around .

Yep, the only reason I went to wet tumbling was to reduce lead being tracked into my house now that I have a baby crawling around the house. Cases definitely require more elbow grease to go in, but mine have never gotten stuck. I do 9mm, .45 ACP, and .357mag.

I prefer dry tumbling, but the cases not having all that dust over them when I bring them inside to reload is a huge plus.

[Victor Cachat]

Steel pins peen the brass, so it is smoother and lass likely to stick in your die once lubed.
Dry polishing only rubs the surface, but leaves wax or other materials that are in the polishing compound on the surface.

[Toolbox X]

I've gone through this exact issue. Dillon 650 and Frankford wet stainless cleaning. I will explain things as I have figured them out.

The powder funnel is going into the casemouth of the pistol case and shaping/belling the case. There is friction between the powder funnel and the inside of the case. New brass (like Starline) and wet cleaned brass do not have any dry media residue, which would act as a lube during this process. With no lube the imperfections in the side of the powder funnel will actually scrape a micro amount of brass from the inside of the case. Over time the brass will accumulate and increase the diameter of the powder funnel. The smoothness of the powder funnel will also decrease. Combined, pulling the case off of the powder funnel on the upstroke can take a lot of force. In my case it got to the point where it took more force on the upstroke than the down stroke.



Dillon told me I'm supposed to lube the powder funnel every 15-20 rounds. Whatever. I believe the truth is they never expected people to use ultra-clean brass. Regardless, they will not help you.

My first fix attempt was to use my Dremel to polish down the accumulated brass off the powder funnel. That worked for 100 rounds, but the powder funnel was so rough it accumulated brass really fast.

I next put the powder funnel basically in a lathe. I used sandpaper, starting with rough and finishing with 2000 grit. I made the powder funnel crazy smooth. Much smoother than from the factory. This fixed the problem. I now use One-Shot, focusing more on getting the spray into the inside of the cases than the outside. After reading about the car soap with wax in the earlier posts I am going to give that a shot.

If you want to try my method you could use a drill press or hand drill if you can find a way to chuck the powder funnel in the drill.

[WyGoSlw]

Well, the brass does go metal to metal in the funnel dye so it would be impossible to assume there would be no marks on the dye itself. That said, you can always lube the brass but that will only address the outside of the cases anyway. Short of lubing the funnel plunger as stated by Dillon, there is no other option that I can see. I don't see why this is even an issue, so the cases mark the funnel plunger, so what! Carry on. I have some cases that are more difficult to cycle that others. Generally the .45 is much more difficult to bell than the .40 or the 9mm as I have both. Just keep the press clean and move on.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Toolbox X

New brass (like Starline) and wet cleaned brass do not have any dry media residue, which would act as a lube during this process. With no lube the imperfections in the side of the powder funnel will actually scrape a micro amount of brass from the inside of the case.

It's called "galling".
The only solution is to clean ALL the brass back off the funnel like you did in the lathe while polishing.
After that, keep some lubrication (dry is better) between the parts so they don't gall.
The powder left on cases from dry tumbling is all that is needed.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by WyGoSlw

I don't see why this is even an issue, so the cases mark the funnel plunger, so what!

It's an issue when brass GALLS on to the funnel.
As soon as that starts, it gets worse and worse and the brass builds up more and more.

[WyGoSlw]

I understand your concern over this, but I believe it's a non issue. Even if it does build up after thousands and thousands or rounds, the issue is on the inside of the case not the outside. The outside if the dimension that is critical to malfunctions such as going into battery and extraction. As long as it fits in the size gauge when you're done who cares if it galls the bell dye.
I've used a wet tumbler for years, on thousands and thousands of cases of .45, .40, 9mm and .223 with no issues.
There's no way I would ever go back to a crappy walnut tumbler.

[boomer135]

Originally Posted by Toolbox X

if you can find a way to chuck the powder funnel in the drill.

Jam a wooden pencil tight in the funnel and chuck it up in a hand drill, thats how I get the job done.

[Lead Waster]

I use a spritz of Hornady one shot.

I recently heard of using car WASH instead of dawn + Lemishine. Apparently it leaves a slight film or something on the brass. Not car POLISH, but car WASH.

I might give it a try.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by WyGoSlw

I understand your concern over this, but I believe it's a non issue.

That's because you have never experienced it.
This is not some scratches on the expander we are talking about.

This is actual galling of the brass TO the expander funnel.
Once the galling starts, the case funnel is actually being friction welded to the case each time the expander goes into the case.
You are RIPPING the brass out of the case each time the case is pulled off of the powder funnel.

Originally Posted by WyGoSlw

Even if it does build up after thousands and thousands or rounds,

It happens in dozens of rounds, not thousands.

[stranded1980]

I have the same problem with the galling on the Dillon Expander because of wet tumbling. Much like others, I will not stop wet tumbling, because I really appreciate how clean the brass gets, and the lack of lead contaminated dust; I have little ones crawling around the house, and any little thing I can do to ensure their brains develop correctly, I will do.

To minimize the galling, I do 3 things:

1. After my brass dries from wet tumbling, I dry tumble with corn cob, mineral spirits, and Nufinish.
2. Before a reloading session, on the Dillon expander, I sand it with 600 grit sandpaper and then use Flitz Metal Polish to get it to a shine.
3. After sanding and polishing, I then use McLube Sailkote dry lubrication on the expander, 3 to 5 coats (it dries in seconds).

The galling usually gets delayed until I get to 200 to 400 rounds. Even after galling, I usually power through until the galling to gets too heavy or I hit 500 rounds.

The polishing, sanding, and lubing of the expander really doesn't take that long, maybe 5 minutes tops, including removal and replacement.

[Toolbox X]

Originally Posted by stranded1980

I have the same problem with the galling on the Dillon Expander because of wet tumbling. Much like others, I will not stop wet tumbling, because I really appreciate how clean the brass gets, and the lack of lead contaminated dust; I have little ones crawling around the house, and any little thing I can do to ensure their brains develop correctly, I will do.

To minimize the galling, I do 3 things:

1. After my brass dries from wet tumbling, I dry tumble with corn cob, mineral spirits, and Nufinish.
2. Before a reloading session, on the Dillon expander, I sand it with 600 grit sandpaper and then use Flitz Metal Polish to get it to a shine.
3. After sanding and polishing, I then use McLube Sailkote dry lubrication on the expander, 3 to 5 coats (it dries in seconds).

The galling usually gets delayed until I get to 200 to 400 rounds. Even after galling, I usually power through until the galling to gets too heavy or I hit 500 rounds.

The polishing, sanding, and lubing of the expander really doesn't take that long, maybe 5 minutes tops, including removal and replacement.

I think the 600 grit is too rough. I think you should try going to really fine, 2000+, and see if you can get more than 200-400 rounds before the galling gets bad. I would love to hear if you get an improvement. I think you will.

[damndave]

I give a quick spray of Hornady One Shot and have never had an issue.

The dust from the corn or walnut is what lubricates the brass.

[stilly]

Once my .45 ACP expander was bumping VERY hard on the cases so I polished the **** out of it. Almost mirror finish and the problem turned to butter smoothless...

So now I make .45 smoothies... Not an issue...

[hueman562]

Hey guys I’ve had the same problem. I wet tumble and using the Dillon 650. My cases were getting stuck in the powder flare. And I did some research and found some people using car wash soap n wax. I tried it today and it worked. Ran some cases thru the die and it runs like butter. I got the thickest soap I can find. All of these cases were cleaned then lubed/deprimed/ and resized And cleaned again. My next test is to clean the dirty range brass with dawn and lemi shine then lube/deprime/resize and then to clean with the carnuba wash and wax combined with the lemi shine. My buddy said the car wash/wax doesn’t clean all the lube off and has some residue still left on there. But I’m gonna try it and see how it works


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[hueman562]

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[pennstater]

A couple months ago, a poster mentioned "Toasted buckwheat" instead of walnut shells for dry tumbling. I went that route with a couple of squirts of "Turtle Wax" spray. 1 hour like that, damn nice clean brass and no walnut pieces stuck in the flash-hole. Works.

[TexasJackKin]

I use car wash/wax plus lemi shine in my tumbler, along with Stilly's pins. Never had a problem with a variety of straight walled pistol brass. I have not done any bottle necked rifle ammo, since I got my SS tumbler (FART).

[J-cat]

OP:

You are using too much lemishine. It’s making the solution too acidic and etching the brass. That’s why it is sticking to your powder die. Use a fifth of a teaspoon per gallon of water.

[Scota4570]

Originally Posted by nahpungnome

Yep, the only reason I went to wet tumbling was to reduce lead being tracked into my house now that I have a baby crawling around the house. Cases definitely require more elbow grease to go in, but mine have never gotten stuck. I do 9mm, .45 ACP, and .357mag.

I prefer dry tumbling, but the cases not having all that dust over them when I bring them inside to reload is a huge plus.

This is real. I did quite a bit of dry tumbling. When my son was small the DR did lead testing on him. All was OK but it made me think to check my garage. Using Rhodizonate I tested various places. There was lots of lead residue, everywhere.

Maybe on the next lead test he might have an elevated level? The last thing I wanted was government lackeys rooting around my shop. So, I blew out the workshop. I ended up tiling the floor and scrapping my workbenches. Scrubbing did not remove it. Any place dust could accumulate was a strong positive on the lead test. That material would also get tracked in to the house.

If you dry tumble, please cover the machine. Do your sifting outside.

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

Been loading for 11 months. Have loaded 32 thousand rounds. use a wet tumbler and a Dillon 650. Had some sticking issues---wet tumbler cleans too well as I have been told. I use a one gallon zip lock baggy, put a few rounds in it---spray a little hornady in, seal it up and tumble them around and whoala-----no issues!!! Pros and cons to both methods and easy fixes for both. When I started I came here and everyone said wet tumble so that's how I do it. No problems.

[aspenvalley]

I dry tumble, shinny brass is just not worth the hassle for me.

[aspenvalley]

I tumble and sift outside as well.

[Cypriss32]

I wet tumble and have no issues. I load a lot. I don’t keep track because it’s too tedious. I will be trying the car wash soap a poster recommend earlier in the thread.

[Win231]

The Dillon Rep. is right.
I've never understood the purpose of wet tumbling. I use corn cob with "Berry's Brass Bright" & after two hours, the cases are clean & shiny. No problems when loading.

[mikeinla]

Originally Posted by Win231

The Dillon Rep. is right.
I've never understood the purpose of wet tumbling. I use corn cob with "Berry's Brass Bright" & after two hours, the cases are clean & shiny. No problems when loading.

Because wet tumbling take 15 minutes instead of two hours

[Lead Waster]

Originally Posted by WyGoSlw

Well, the brass does go metal to metal in the funnel dye so it would be impossible to assume there would be no marks on the dye itself. That said, you can always lube the brass but that will only address the outside of the cases anyway. Short of lubing the funnel plunger as stated by Dillon, there is no other option that I can see. I don't see why this is even an issue, so the cases mark the funnel plunger, so what! Carry on. I have some cases that are more difficult to cycle that others. Generally the .45 is much more difficult to bell than the .40 or the 9mm as I have both. Just keep the press clean and move on.

If you just spray Hornady one-shot into your container of shiny brass, it gets on the outsides and on the insides mouth of (most of) the brass.

I've also directly spritzed one-shot into the case feeder.

[Lead Waster]

Originally Posted by mikeinla

Because wet tumbling take 15 minutes instead of two hours

Yeah, but there is drying time to factor in.

[divingin]

Originally Posted by JMP

Then, if you have bottleneck rifle cartridges that have relatively thin necks compared to the cartridge size, it's easy to miss a piece of steel since you cannot see the inside of the shoulder. This will damage your rifle where a piece of cob or walnut is no big deal if you send it down the bore.

Out of curiosity, do you have evidence of an instance where a steel pin sent down a barrel damaged a rifle?

I have experienced the same problem as the OP with the Hornady powder-through expander on 38 Special. It has to do with how the expander is designed. The Hornady powder-through (and, I suspect, whatever OP was using) is like a Lyman M-type expander - it opens the case mouth and also expands part of the body to slightly-smaller-than-bullet-diameter to allow the bullet to seat roughly concentrically (moreso than not opening the case body.) the top part flares the case so the bullet doesn't shave as it is pressed in. The expanding portion creates extra drag, and that is why OP's case is sticking.

For a while, I gave the expander a small shot of One-Shot lube every now and then, but that was kind of a pain in the ***, and didn't really solve the problem. I went back to using a standard flare die (rather than the powder-through expander in the powder measure), and have had no problems since.

I suspect that if OP could polish his flare apparatus (assuming it's accessible), it would completely solve his problem (actually, it would probably solve mine as well, but I'm already set, so why bother.)

Other than that, maybe dusting cases with powdered graphite (available as lock lubrication) prior to loading?

[Dragginpanda]

I wet tumble, then corn cob for lubricant with NuFinish. My dies are also carbide.

[nedro]

If Dillon won't work, use better equipment.
My Lee and Forster work very well with a wet tumbler.

[TexasJackKin]

Originally Posted by nedro

If Dillon won't work, use better equipment.
My Lee and Forster work very well with a wet tumbler.

LOL.... The blue boys will be coming for you! But I have to say I've had the exact same experience, with Lee and old Pacific dies!

[divingin]

Originally Posted by Lead Waster

I use a spritz of Hornady one shot.

I recently heard of using car WASH instead of dawn + Lemishine. Apparently it leaves a slight film or something on the brass. Not car POLISH, but car WASH.

I might give it a try.

I use the wash-and-wax stuff. Car wash is a detergent/surfactant, so that's not much different than plain soap. The WnW stuff seems to work OK. Cleans just like Dawn; don't know about the coating it leaves, but doesn't seem to hurt anything. The latest stuff I got was some no-name brand from O'Reilly; about $6 for a gallon, as I recall.

[nedro]

Originally Posted by TexasJackKin

LOL.... The blue boys will be coming for you! But I have to say I've had the exact same experience, with Lee and old Pacific dies!

The Blue Boys? Ha, ha, ha.
That was funny.
They just need some girls to go out with. That will take care of their "Blue Boys."

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by divingin

Out of curiosity, do you have evidence of an instance where a steel pin sent down a barrel damaged a rifle?

JMP might not, but I have seen the aftermath of a pin going down the bore on a couple rifles.

[kcstott]

Originally Posted by divingin

Out of curiosity, do you have evidence of an instance where a steel pin sent down a barrel damaged a rifle?

If you think a steel pin going down the bore will not harm the barrel you’re nuts.
I don’t need evidence. The simple fact that it’s a possibility is enough for me.
Brass don’t need to be this clean guys. Just dry tumble it and be done.
And you dust complainers can suck it, buy good media and dust is not an issue.

[nedro]

Originally Posted by JMP

This is a reason I will never use a wet tumbler. The natural lube of the dry tumbling media makes it better for sizing, flaring, and seating. With rifle cartridges, it is also important as it provides for smooth seating without potentially causing undue damage to the bullet's surface. With rifle cartridges, I believe that most of the folks that shoot for high precision still use dry.

Then, if you have bottleneck rifle cartridges that have relatively thin necks compared to the cartridge size, it's easy to miss a piece of steel since you cannot see the inside of the shoulder. This will damage your rifle where a piece of cob or walnut is no big deal if you send it down the bore.

Just use Stilly's larger pins. They do not get stuck in cases.
The small stock pins are a different story. They get everywhere.

[JMP]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

JMP might not, but I have seen the aftermath of a pin going down the bore on a couple rifles.

Indeed, I have no personally, but I have a better understanding of friction than most.

Folks, if you like your wet tumbling, you can keep your wet tumbling. I'll keep my dry tumbling because I categorically prefer the process. I do not care about time because I dump my brass in tumble outside and I don't really time it like I am baking a cake. Dry produces better case prep for me. I've forgotten about my brass and left it going for a couple days, and it looks really really clean when that happens.

To be honest, sometimes, I don't even clean my brass. After shooting, I'll run it straight through a neck bushing and decapper, finishing my entire prep in one pull without any fritzing with lube, then just prime and refill.

It's different with each case, but in general, if I am going to need to spend 5 hours making ammo for every single time I shot, I'd never shoot. Hence, I like to focus more attention on what matters than what does not matter.

My mind is made up. There is nothing anything anyone will tell me to convince me that wet isn't less convenient with no benefits over dry. (Maybe, if hell freezes over.)

[kcstott]

There is nothing convenient about wet tumbling

[TexasJackKin]

Originally Posted by kcstott

There is nothing convenient about wet tumbling

While that's true, once you get your process down it's not bad. After the first couple of batches I was ready to give it up, but now that I've got a system worked out, I'm sold!

Is it necessary? No, not at all. I've become accustomed to "New Looking" brass, but the fact of the matter is, it shoots the same. But then, I'm retired and need something to do........