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  #41  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:18 PM
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What defines a parts kit? If I buy a polish ak magazine body, and have it shipped to my home in california with the floor plate, follower, and spring in a different package, would this still be considered a kit? Note that I am not trying to build a new magazine, rather repair an old ak mag that has a dent in the body, and will not allow the follower to pass said dent.
  #42  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TheComebacKid View Post
What defines a parts kit? If I buy a polish ak magazine body, and have it shipped to my home in california with the floor plate, follower, and spring in a different package, would this still be considered a kit? Note that I am not trying to build a new magazine, rather repair an old ak mag that has a dent in the body, and will not allow the follower to pass said dent.
Please read the stickies:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=904677

I certainly would not do what you are proposing, but I don't like jail.
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  #43  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:29 PM
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I'm guessing you STILL did not read the link.
So basically my question cannot be answered with certainty?
  #44  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:34 PM
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So basically my question cannot be answered with certainty?
Exactly.
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  #45  
Old 05-09-2014, 7:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MCM View Post
For a new CCW permit in Ca. can I use (3) hand guns that I purchased here legally yrs ago that came with standard capacity over 10 round mags?
Have not seen anything on that yet. I really would hate to have to buy new 10 round mags to replace the original factory 12-15 round mags the guns came with. They were purchased and registered here in Ca. The term used to be pre-ban. Not sure what they/we are calling it now.
Thanks
The mags are legal. Acceptability for CCW is up to your county's CCW division.
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  #46  
Old 05-15-2014, 10:59 AM
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Fixed the wiki - now says
Quote:
Yes - BUT you cannot bring them back to California. It is no longer (2014 and forward) legal to import large-capacity magazines as disassembled parts kits.
Thanks for pointing it out; apologies for not fixing it earlier.
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  #47  
Old 05-19-2014, 6:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MauserMike View Post
This is insane.... every LEO or gun shop you ask has 100% different answers. How can a state uphold laws that they dont even know or understand. how are we supposed to follow the rules when everything is in the gray? isnt legal but its not illegal so that means its legal right???? F- that SH!!!!!T,

so does anyone think they know anything about magazine in california and if you can use them or not without getting peppersprayed and tazed?
Really not that complicated. Read post 1. Read it a couple times if you need to. Use your best judgement, and keep your mouth shut if approached by law enforcement about it. Fact is even actual clear cut violations are 99% unenforceable unless you open your mouth and say something stupid (which is usually anything at all). So if you stay legal to your best understanding, don't volunteer for a finger fornication of everything you own, and don't open your mouth to explain to officer friendly when/how/what you acquired, you'll be fine.

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  #48  
Old 05-26-2014, 2:06 PM
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What would be the legality of ordering normal capacity magazines from an online seller, having them shipped directly to an out-of-state location to be blocked, then shipping/bringing them back to Kalifornia? Would this be legal? And if so, does anyone know of a shop or business that would provide a service like this?
  #49  
Old 05-26-2014, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by coleschmidt View Post
What would be the legality of ordering normal capacity magazines from an online seller, having them shipped directly to an out-of-state location to be blocked, then shipping/bringing them back to Kalifornia?

Would this be legal?

And if so, does anyone know of a shop or business that would provide a service like this?
Is it legal to import 10-round magazines? Yes.
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  #50  
Old 06-05-2014, 2:27 PM
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So here is my question; and you will have to forgive what is perhaps my ignorance (I am new to all of this), but I, having read all of the posts in this thread up until this point, including the first post and the wiki, have not seen asked or answered the following question:

Assuming that sometime at least 3 years ago (given the 3 year statute of limitations), perhaps 5 years or maybe 10 years ago but after 2000 (which would make them legal so long as they were possessed in California at the time), an individual imported, manufactured, received, purchased, etc., either intentionally or unintentionally, a "large-capacity magazine", and given that-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
It is perfectly legal - no restrictions at all in the Penal Code - to own and possess and use those "large-capacity magazines" in any gun*(see footnote), at any time, under any circumstances where it is legal to use a gun. Ownership, possession and use of "large-capacity magazines" are not crimes in PC; there is no section under which you could be charged.
Wouldn't all such magazines be now, for all intents and purposes, legal or at least unprosecutable? And by extension any magazine that lacks identifiable date specific markings as to manufacture, assuming you weren't caught red handed in some sort of sting operation (or a magazine belonging to a gun that is itself not at least three years old), be fine as well?

Or perhaps I'm completely misunderstanding how this works..?

Please don't misconsrue this question to be encouraging or condoning the breaking of the law in any way, but take it for what it is, an attempt to more perfectly understand a grievously imperfect law.

Last edited by SNBI; 06-05-2014 at 3:29 PM..
  #51  
Old 06-11-2014, 9:30 PM
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Can you Still sell, trade, give individual parts for example just base plates?
  #52  
Old 06-14-2014, 9:55 AM
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Quick question, but first a scenario. I have a Glock 20 that I bought in '93 came with 2 15 rnd mags. I know I can legally own them and use them to this day. I even purchased 5 more mags, albeit at black market prices, after 1994 but before 2000.

I'm considering buying a Glock 29. It will accept G20 mags. Would it be legal to use the 15 round mags in it if I so chose? I don't see any practical reason for it, just curious.
  #53  
Old 06-14-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantdance View Post
I'm considering buying a Glock 29. It will accept G20 mags. Would it be legal to use the 15 round mags in it if I so chose?

There is no PC that I'm aware of that would prohibit this. The mags themselves are regulated not the guns you use them in (assuming it doesn't have a BB). Matter of fact Glock mags are only stamped with caliber and capacity not model number, and we're originally designed to be interchangeable with different models anyways.

I don't see how this would be any different then using grandfathered AR mags in a featureless different brand or non AR rifle Sig, IMI, etc...
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  #54  
Old 06-16-2014, 9:32 PM
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Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
  #55  
Old 06-16-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimstng66 View Post
Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
Covers?

Bodies, perhaps?

We don't know what is the minimum to satisfy the definition of an illegal 'conversion kit'.
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Covers?

Bodies, perhaps?

We don't know what is the minimum to satisfy the definition of an illegal 'conversion kit'.
Parts that are the same for 10s, 15s, 20s, 30s, etc. should be fine. Parts specific to >10 I agree are a grey area. I personally would bring in complete 10/30s or nothing and even then, discretion and silence.
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  #57  
Old 06-17-2014, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimstng66 View Post
Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
If by covers we mean + 10 magazine bodys, then this should help:

Section 32311.

"(b) For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazine conversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine."

Although poorly stated, a +10 magazine body is "capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine." Importing one could be easily defined by the DOJ/AG/DA as manufacturing a large capacity magazine where none previously existed prior to January 1, 2000. See section 32310 - the original large capacity mag ban law:

"(b) For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine."

There is plenty of room for interpretation in both Sections 32310 and 32311 for the state to make a case.
Importing an unblocked "large capacity" magazine body could open up a legal can of worms.
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  #58  
Old 06-19-2014, 9:15 PM
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Thanks for the info I appreciate it
  #59  
Old 07-01-2014, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
True, that's why when I go to a public range, I use 10s. Save my high caps for the desert, even if legal. For some funny reason, no one blinks at my USGI M1 Carbine with a 15 rounder... They must look like they go together.
People are accustomed enough to limited mags that even the fuddy duddies don't whine about them anymore. But there is always that tool counting your shots to see if it is really just 10...
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Old 07-02-2014, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimstng66 View Post
Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
Why bother when you can still legally purchase a 10/30 mag here and online?

FYI- a 10/30 is a 30 round magazine that has been limited to only holding 10 rounds!
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  #61  
Old 07-02-2014, 2:58 PM
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Could dig out an answer, so I'll ask. Sorry if dupe.

Could you send a 10+ magazine to your CA FFL who can LEGALLY receive it, and send him a magazine block that will block down to 10 rounds and have him create a 10 round magazine for you?

I think the sticky question is that if YOU bought the magazine and YOU are no the FFL, even if the magazine will ONLY be received LEGALLY by the licensed FFL ... are you the "importer" since you caused the magazine to be imported into CA? At no time would any non-licensed-to-receive-a-high-capacity-magazine person have the magazine. So straight from out of state to a legally licensed FFL (licensed to receive high caps), then a 10 rounder from him to you?
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  #62  
Old 07-02-2014, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
Could dig out an answer, so I'll ask. Sorry if dupe.

Could you send a 10+ magazine to your CA FFL who can LEGALLY receive it, and send him a magazine block that will block down to 10 rounds and have him create a 10 round magazine for you?

I think the sticky question is that if YOU bought the magazine and YOU are no the FFL, even if the magazine will ONLY be received LEGALLY by the licensed FFL ... are you the "importer" since you caused the magazine to be imported into CA? At no time would any non-licensed-to-receive-a-high-capacity-magazine person have the magazine. So straight from out of state to a legally licensed FFL (licensed to receive high caps), then a 10 rounder from him to you?
I don't believe anyone will sell/ship hi-cap mags to anyone in California, FFL or not.

I think you could buy mag blocks ahead of time, then travel to AZ or NV buy 30 rounders and convert them prior to returning to CA. but only if you were going to that other state for another reason, otherwise your better off ordering 10/30's online! ...and I doubt you'd save any significant amount of cash!
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  #63  
Old 07-03-2014, 9:07 AM
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There is a hi-cap permit separate from the CA-FFL that a dealer has to have. There are still in state dealers doing in house conversions, and there are still out of state dealers shipping 10/30's.

Other option as mentioned is pre-order limiters, and add an errand to your next vacation out of state. The nuances are tedious, but I'd argue that anything from permanently modifying (ie, glue that is as strong or stronger than the material, or riveting), to part swapping (swap floor plate for integrated limiter and ditch the floor plates so that you are not returning with anything that could be assembled into a >10 round magazine so neither kit nor permanent modification clauses are triggered) covers the letter of the law, and your silence avoids "imperial entanglements" to begin with.
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Old 07-03-2014, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by inbox485 View Post
There is a hi-cap permit separate from the CA-FFL that a dealer has to have. There are still in state dealers doing in house conversions, and there are still out of state dealers shipping 10/30's.
Hmmmm... I didn't know that! But I've only seen prepackaged 10/30's for sale locally, and see them online all the time.
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  #65  
Old 07-17-2014, 9:13 AM
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I qualified with my 15 round Glock 22 I purchased here legally in 1994. And is now one of the three on my CCW.

As far as the exact purchase date for the law, I am not sure? Was it 1996? 1999? 2001? That would be helpfull to post if someone here knows the actual date. There were so many laws thrown around back then it is easy to get it wrong. Some are still valid while others may not be.
  #66  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:56 PM
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This thread is primarily concerned with State laws.

However, in 2014, there are two local laws worth knowing about.

Sunnyvale and San Francisco each have their own large-capacity magazine ban.

Sunnyvale Municipal Code section 9.44.050 bans the possession and use of common, standard-capacity “ammunition feeding devices” or “magazines” capable of holding more than ten rounds. The Ordinance took effect on December 6, 2013, ten (10) days after the Sunnyvale City Council declared the vote.

The ordinance is being challenged; see the thread on Fyock v Sunnyvale, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=867249

On April 7, 2014, the San Francisco Ordinance took effect. It, too, bans possession of large-capacity magazines.

This ordinance, too, is being challenged (SFVPOA v. SAN FRANCISCO) ; see the thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=917138

Until a resolution in favor of the plaintiffs may be secured, carry of large-capacity magazines in each of San Francisco and Sunnyvale is illegal.

Please direct questions to the threads linked.
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  #67  
Old 08-19-2016, 1:54 PM
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Default Effective July 1, 2017, 'large-capacity magazines' are illegal

New law passed in 2016 changes the rules:

SB 1446

Quote:
(b) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing July 1, 2017, any person in this state who possesses any large-capacity magazine,

regardless of the date the magazine was acquired,

is guilty of an infraction

punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100) upon the first offense,
by a fine not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars ($250) upon the second offense,
and by a fine not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500) upon the third or subsequent offense.

(c) A person who, prior to July 1, 2017, legally possesses a large-capacity magazine shall dispose of that magazine by any of the following means:
(1) Remove the large-capacity magazine from the state.
(2) Prior to July 1, 2017, sell the large-capacity magazine to a licensed firearms dealer.
(3) Destroy the large-capacity magazine.
(4) Surrender the large-capacity magazine to a law enforcement agency for destruction.

(d) For purposes of this section, “manufacturing” includes both
fabricating a magazine
and
assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine.

(e) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by different provisions of this code shall not be punished under more than one provision.
and one usable exception for the commoners
Quote:
(f) A person lawfully in possession of a firearm that the person obtained prior to January 1, 2000,

if no magazine that holds 10 or fewer rounds of ammunition is compatible with that firearm

and the person possesses the large-capacity magazine solely for use with that firearm.
ETA - Blocked magazines are legal to buy, sell, own and use, if the capacity is 10 or fewer and the block-method is 'permanent'.

That was in several of the prior posts, but not as an explicit statement.

No, it's still the case that no one really knows what 'permanent' might mean.
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Last edited by Librarian; 05-18-2017 at 11:31 PM..
  #68  
Old 08-29-2017, 4:32 PM
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First post updated: City of LA got rid of the city's magazine ban effective 1 July 2017.
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  #69  
Old 09-22-2018, 8:20 PM
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16 more posts deleted; almost all relied on pre-2017 law on possession for accuracy - they were fine when posted, but out of date in 2018.

And maybe I'll get to revise this yet again to restore 'possession' as legal, pace the nuisance language.
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  #70  
Old 04-07-2019, 12:22 PM
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Default Update after 'magazine week' - yes, it's legal to use those mags

It has always been legal to use large-capacity magazines, and it remains legal.

The magazine 'possession' language in the Penal Code has been stayed by Judge Benitez - that means it cannot be enforced while that order remains in effect (and see the Duncan thread in CA 2A Litigation for news about that.)

There are a few limitations, however.

There is still a small likelihood of seizure as a nuisance; if that happens, please contact Michel & Associates, helpdesk@michellawyers.com

IF you modified your rifle to the new 'fixed magazine' configuration - that is, now you must open the action to change mags - you MUST NOT use an LCM in those rifles. The 'assault weapon' law is not affected, and using a LCM in a fixed-mag rifle creates an 'assault weapon' - that's a FELONY.

Yes, if you registered your rifles as 'assault weapons' - RAW - you may use LCMs.

Yes, if you still have 'featureless' rifles, you may still use LCMs - that seems to have been the principal point of 'featureless' guns.

Yes, you may legally take your LCMs out to a range; some ranges may have their own rules, so call ahead.

Yes, you may legally use LCMs in your CCW guns; your issuing agency may have an opinion, so follow their rules.

Yes, you may use LCMs in self-defense.

Yes, you may lend your LCMs to another person, if you stay with them. Think 'range trip'; PC 32415

Yes, if you had magazine 'kits', it was legal to assemble them into magazines during the week. It's not legal now - don't do it.

Yes, if you have magazine 'extension' parts, it is legal to assemble them to LCMs. It is NOT legal to assemble them to 10-round or fewer mags - that would be 'manufacturing'; it is also not legal - and was not legal during the week - to get a kit or an extension device - the law on 'large capacity magazine conversion kits' is not affected by this lawsuit.

NO, you cannot take your newly acquired LCMs out of state to use, and then bring them back to CA. There used to be an exception to the the 32310 'importing' prohibition for legally-owned-in-CA pre-2000 mags; Prop 63 deleted that. Now, bringing the LCMs into CA is simple 'importing', and that is forbidden.
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Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 04-12-2019 at 2:33 PM..
  #71  
Old 04-08-2019, 8:15 PM
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See also this from the CRPA: https://crpa.org/news/blogs/crpa-ale...-ordered-stay/

Quote:
I. CAN I STILL PURCHASE MAGAZINES CAPABLE OF HOLDING MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS IN CALIFORNIA?
NO! As of 5:00 P.M. Friday, April 5, the decision granting the Duncan Plaintiff’s motion for summary judgment has been stayed pending appeal by the California Attorney General. As a result, California’s restrictions prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer or receipt of any “large-capacity” magazines are once again in effect.
II. CAN I CONTINUE TO POSSESS THE MAGAZINES I LAWFULLY ACQUIRED?
YES! As of the date of this bulletin, California’s restrictions against “possession” have been unenforceable since June 29, 2017, when this same court issued a preliminary injunction preventing it from taking effect while the parties litigated the merits of the case.
III. CAN I USE THE MAGAZINES I LAWFULLY ACQUIRED AT A SHOOTING RANGE?
YES! For the same reasons above, California does not currently prohibit the “possession” of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. Only activities involving the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer or receipt of such magazines are prohibited. The mere “use” of a magazine at a shooting range, for example, is not specifically prohibited. But BEWARE: the use of any “large-capacity” magazine in either a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine or a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine could classify the firearm as an illegal “assault weapon” under California law.1
IV. CAN I CARRY THE MAGAZINES I LAWFULLY ACQUIRED WITH A FIREARM PURSUANT TO A CARRY LICENSE?
YES, but your local licensing authority’s policies may still restrict such activity. As noted above, California law does not prohibit the “use” of any “large-capacity” magazine. However, department policies of a local licensing authority may prohibit individuals from carrying such magazines in connection with their CCW permits. Individuals should, therefore, review their CCW license authority’s policies before carrying any “large-capacity” magazine in connection with their CCW permit.
V. I LAWFULLY PURCHASED MAGAZINES DURING “FREEDOM WEEK” BUT THEY HAVE YET TO ARRIVE IN THE MAIL, AM I STILL OK TO RECEIVE THEM?
YES! As noted in the Court’s order granting a stay, anyone who “manufactured, imported, sold, or bought” magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds during “Freedom Week” cannot be prosecuted for violating California’s “large-capacity” magazine restrictions. Assuming the individual “bought” the magazines but has yet to receive them, the Court’s order prohibits that individual from being prosecuted.
VI. I OWN “LARGE-CAPACITY” MAGAZINES THAT ARE CURRENTLY OUT OF STATE, CAN I STILL BRING THEM BACK INTO CALIFORNIA?
NO! As noted above, California’s restrictions prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer or receipt of any “large-capacity” magazine are currently in effect. Attempting to bring back magazines into California, despite already being owned by you, can be construed as “importation” which is currently prohibited.
VII. CAN I TRAVEL WITH THE MAGAZINES I LAWFULLY ACQUIRED OUTSIDE OF CALIFORNIA?
NO! Prior to the enactment of Proposition 63 in 2016, California law allowed individuals to travel with their lawfully acquired magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds outside of California and then return with them.2 But this provision was repealed with the enactment of Proposition 63. As a result, individuals can no longer travel outside of California with their lawfully acquired magazines unless they plan on leaving their magazines out of California.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 04-08-2019 at 8:17 PM..
  #72  
Old 12-06-2021, 2:06 PM
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December of 2021

This keeps appearing - someone thinks 'standard magazines' is a synonym for CA's legal definition of 'large-capacity magazines' -
Quote:
16740.

As used in this part, “large-capacity magazine” means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:

(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
'Standard capacity' might be best thought of as the capacity of magazines supplied by the manufacturers 'in the box' in free states.

Standard capacity is weapon-dependent.

For all the 1911 type handguns, 'standard capacity' is SEVEN. If you care to look, I'm sure you can come up with a dozen or so whose standard capacity mags are less than 10 rounds.

No doubt most people will understand what you mean in a casual conversation; use whatever term you like there.

But in a discussion of California law, the term is 'large-capacity magazine', as defined in PC 16740, and to use other terms really does create confusion.

Remember, we lost that terminology battle in 2000.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 12-06-2021 at 6:54 PM..
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