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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#1
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PPT transfer fee $60.00 is legal.....
Catchy title huh!.
I would like to hear from FFLs regarding the below situation I am currently dealing with. Does anyone have a problem with what I am doing. I will not post the name of the store involved at this time. I went to a FFL in San Jose for a PPT on a handgun last week. When all was said and done I was given a bill for $60.00 $10.00 Dealer fee $25.00 DROS fee $25.00 Handgun safety demonstration fee I stated that the maximum charge for a PPT is $35.00 I was informed that the HSD fee was legal and they always charge for it. I thought maybe something had changed recently regarding handgun transfers. I have not purchased a handgun in many years so I thought maybe this was a legit fee. I said I would pay when I picked up the gun but was told payment was expected now. I paid the fee then went home and did some research. Below is information directly from the CADOJ website: Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example: 1. For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction. I made a phone call to the CADOJ Firearms Division and spoke with two different people. I will give their first names: Dana and Mike. Both said the charge was not legal and to fax them a copy of my receipt. I did not want to name the store until first trying to resolve this myself with the owner. I made two phone calls back to the store where I DROSd the handgun and spoke with a manager on one occasion and the owner on the other. Both said the fees were legal. I told both the manager and the owner about my conversations with the CADOJ personnel. Because the store owner is standing his ground I am going to fax a copy of my store receipt to the CADOJ and let them handle this.
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#2
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Did you have a handgun safety card already?
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs.php#a4 Quote:
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#3
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The FFL is an idiot. Now, instead of one and perhaps two repeat cutomers, he has a DOJ investigation. DOH!!
I rarely do PPT's but each one I do has brought either the seller or the buyer back for a purchase. Why nickel and dime someone because the PPT fee law blows? Suck it up and conduct business.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member 01 Dealer Redding, CA US Army MP Corps Veteran Former NRA Pistol Coach Level 3 I am always looking for Beretta D models in 9mm or a Compact Type M. |
#4
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If you don't have an HSC card they need to issue you one and it costs $25. If you have one and they're charging you for the Safety demonstration(which it sounds like they are) where you load and unload a handgun using snap caps they are wrong and incorrect. They are breaking the law and should be outed. I would like to know who to avoid for ppt's.
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#5
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HSC
Yes, I have a HSC. I bought it last year at the same store. I had intended to purchase a couple of bricks of .22lr while I was in the store. I also received a case of wine as a gift the week prior and I was going to drop off a bottle when I picked up the handgun. Not too likely that I will do that now... Bummer of a situation.
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#6
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I agree, that $25 "demonstration fee" is bogus since you already had a HSC. Seems to me like they violated the law that says $35 is the maximum allowed fee for PPT
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Last edited by UFO hunter; 02-18-2011 at 10:43 PM.. |
#7
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Some shops just don't get it. They will try anything to add charges to PPTs.
The handgun safety card (HSC) charge is allowed for in CA PC 12082...but any other fee when doing a PPT is specifically forbidden.
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#8
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If it wasn't a PPT, they could charge a $25 HSC Demonstration Fee. Since it is a PPT, the fee is capped at $35.
Dealers need to learn.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#10
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I knew that I didn't have to do it, and they certainly should have known as well, but I did it anyway. I'm at the age now, where I really don't feel the need to correct people.(unless it is going to cost me money) And, come on, how difficult is it to perform anyway? There was no charge |
#11
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wrong if they continue this practice, and consequently they are doing themselves wrong once the word gets out... unless they correct the error of their ways. Charging 25$ for a handgun safety demo... thehaletheythink...!
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. "A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing" -- Jessamyn West "Only God has the touch to create these magnificent rattlesnakes and their signature greatness in nature" -- unknown . ......GO HERE FOR--► My YouTube Channel |
#12
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OK, what about a transfer dealer at Gun shows?
I purchased a rifle at the Ontario Crossroads show a couple of weeks ago, the dealer the vendor wanted to use charge an additional $15 handing fee and tax above the $35 PPT fee (total fee was $50.52). No tax was charged for the rifle. I have seen this more and more with transfer dealers at GS's. Is the handing fee legit? |
#14
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SCREW THAT! Anyone exempt from HSC come buy guns from me. I love exempt people because you cause me less paperwork!
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#15
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#16
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Makes me feel like a real gunslinger. |
#18
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If you are exempt from HSC, you are also exempt from safe handling demonstration. Whoever is making you do the safe handling demo is in error.
__________________
”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#19
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Fax sent
I sent the copy of the receipt to the CADOJs office. I was really hoping I would be able to educate the store owner and avoid any other DOJ involvement. Oh well, I tried.
One of the statements that the store owner made bothers me and was pretty dramatic "I am sorry you feel you need to try to put me out of business by only paying $10.00 for the transfer" Another thing he stated was "The DOJ can not tell me how much I can charge for conducting business. I have spoken with my lawyers and with the DOJ staff when they came to my store and they said the HSD charge was legal" These may not be his exact words, but they are as close to exact as I can recollect. I will place a follow up call with Dana at the CADOJs Firearms Office sometime on Tuesday. Stay tuned for further developments...
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#20
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Quote:
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#21
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I recently called a store in socal for directions to do a PPT and they gave me the directions and stated it would be "$68 dollars. so I get there and the guy starts complaining about how much he hates doing PPTs. He did mention the cost was $35. It seems they try and discourage people calling in for PPTs as much as possible.
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How do you travel... |
#22
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Quote:
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#23
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Wasn't this just discussed last month? Wonder if it's the same dealer?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=379631
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups |
#25
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so, what you are saying is that you would take it in the pooper with sand in the vaseline?
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#26
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One and the same
Quote:
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Last edited by Boarding-Team-Leader; 02-19-2011 at 11:52 PM.. |
#27
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I do most of my PPT's at Rifle Gear, and I know its a hassle but they are very quick, and also good sports about it. If I buy new guns or parts I always try to buy from them first because of how they treat me during the PPT process.
On the contrary, I have been to Turners twice in the last three years because they go out of their way to make the process as laborious as possible and will make you wait until the counter is empty before they will do a PPT. In the last 3 years I bought $15.00 of fish hooks from Turners and $2,000.00 of gear and guns from Rifle Gear. Name the store...save us all the hassle of dealing with them.
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I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#29
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Quote:
See Penal Code Section 12807.(a)(6). Quote:
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#31
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Ya, got that part...was thinking of something else at the time of my post.
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#32
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Not worried in the slightest.
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After picking up the handgun I may just make a couple other purchases as a farewell. I have been shopping there for over 20 years and I think it would be a good time to remind them of how many purchases I have made there over the years. I have a couple of other ideas of things to do, but I do not want to talk about them before tomorrow afternoon
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#33
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Thanks
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I just mailed the renewal for my Utah permit, and hopefully my paperwork will be processed in Oregon soon. Why do older brothers always feel the need to pick on their younger brothers
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#36
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I said, I understand but the law IS the law, $35 is all you can charge... She hung up on me. Just a wonderful person to deal with. I did a search for the shop on Google and found some interesting reviews. They don't have a website, but posted reviews indicate a few folks have had issues with the same lady. |
#37
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Quote:
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#38
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Let her know there are plenty of other dealers out there, so she is now wrong on two counts. She is charging more than allowed by law and you will show her you can buy a gun without her.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#39
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Not true without a name of the offending dealer. It didn't happen unless we all can be protected. Share the wealth please!!!!!
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Golden State Tactical <---click here > An FORMER Outpost Deep In the Heart of the Beast! Home of "California Compliant" AR15 Parts and Magazines and some of the lowest priced guns in the state!!! |
#40
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups |
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