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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #201  
Old 05-22-2019, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
no my post does not imply that all guns are equally accurate and it does not matter when you shot the gun...your saying that a less accurate gun shoots better than a more accurate gun and if that the case its the shooter not the gun.


So, the VZ24 is the ďmore accurateĒ gun because it was more expensive? On what basis are you assuming the VZ is more accurate, when the target clearly says otherwise? The Ruger is consistently putting up 0.6Ē groups. Maybe I got a 1 in a million rifle, but the targets donít lie. I see no reason to assume Iím the problem - itís not like a 25-06 is radically more difficult to shoot than a 6mm CM.
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  #202  
Old 05-22-2019, 1:51 PM
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i would'nt.


Youíd probably agree then that you fall well outside the definition of ďmost people.Ē
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  #203  
Old 05-22-2019, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
So, the VZ24 is the ďmore accurateĒ gun because it was more expensive? On what basis are you assuming the VZ is more accurate, when the target clearly says otherwise? The Ruger is consistently putting up 0.6Ē groups. Maybe I got a 1 in a million rifle, but the targets donít lie. I see no reason to assume Iím the problem - itís not like a 25-06 is radically more difficult to shoot than a 6mm CM.


You keep trying to twist words...I do not assume anything I donít know you or your equipment...but you say your $400 dollar factory gun shoots better than your custom....if that shilen barreled rifle donít shoot better than a $400 dollar Ruger thereís a problem with the shooter the gun or the ammo....like you just stated thereís not a big difference shooting one or the other so if thatís the case then a gun with a better barrel should shoot better.

now you explain how thatís posable if thereís not a problem some where.




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  #204  
Old 05-22-2019, 5:07 PM
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Youíd probably agree then that you fall well outside the definition of ďmost people.Ē


Yes I guess Iíd have to agree with you here.


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  #205  
Old 05-22-2019, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
This particular ďblind hogĒ is Jacob Bynum out of Rifles Onlyin Corpus Christy, Texas. Heís been kinda good at this stuff for a while.
Yeah, he probably couldn't make that shot over and over with a card board "bipod". It is actually wood like the "stock". My bad.
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  #206  
Old 05-22-2019, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Well, itís a Shilen barrel and you installed it. :-)

Honestly, I think it just needs more load development and I have to finish bedding the stock.
Fix your bedding then.
A shilen that I chambered and fitted to an action should not take load development to shoot well.
The thing about good barrels is that they usually shoot any good load very well.
Premium barrels usually have MUCH less need to "find the right load".
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  #207  
Old 05-22-2019, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Which one gives you more "warm and fuzzies" when you pull it out of the safe?
I like them both but for different reasons. The Garand is the one I take out for "warm and fuzzies"
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  #208  
Old 05-22-2019, 7:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Fix your bedding then.

A shilen that I chambered and fitted to an action should not take load development to shoot well.

The thing about good barrels is that they usually shoot any good load very well.

Premium barrels usually have MUCH less need to "find the right load".

Yes sir. I have two rifles Randall built me, that shoot 1/2 MOA with very little load development. Hell I just took a guess at what charge to throw to try a new powder, and I was shooting 1/2-3/4 MOA. Thatís on a factory 700 action, crap unfired brass, and bedding in the stock from the last 700 action I had in there.
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  #209  
Old 05-22-2019, 7:56 PM
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I like them both but for different reasons. The Garand is the one I take out for "warm and fuzzies"
My $200 Garand definitely gives me warm and fuzzies.
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  #210  
Old 05-22-2019, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Fix your bedding then.

A shilen that I chambered and fitted to an action should not take load development to shoot well.

The thing about good barrels is that they usually shoot any good load very well.

Premium barrels usually have MUCH less need to "find the right load".


Thatís the next thing Iím working on. I have no doubt sheíll be a good shooter when everything is done.

I do have a question for you though that is somewhat relevant to this thread, and that is the maximum typical accuracy achievable with different cartridges. In your opinion, are most cartridges capable of similar accuracy, or are some generally superior? Iím wondering if part of my experience has to do with the particular calibers involved. The Ruger is a 6mm CM, and a 1/2moa rifle in that caliber doesnít seem all that uncommon, whereas the VZ24 is a 25-06, and in my limited experience Iím not sure Iíve ever heard of a 1/2moa 25-06. I have no doubt itís possible to make one, but are some cartridges just easier to coax that level of accuracy from?


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  #211  
Old 05-22-2019, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
You keep trying to twist words...I do not assume anything I donít know you or your equipment...but you say your $400 dollar factory gun shoots better than your custom....if that shilen barreled rifle donít shoot better than a $400 dollar Ruger thereís a problem with the shooter the gun or the ammo....like you just stated thereís not a big difference shooting one or the other so if thatís the case then a gun with a better barrel should shoot better.

now you explain how thatís posable if thereís not a problem some where.




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I agree, the gun with the better barrel SHOULD shoot better. But that doesnít mean it has to. There are dozens of variables at play, not the least of which is sometimes you happen to get a real gem of a cheap rifle, and sometimes you spend a lot and end up disappointed.

As to the subject of this thread, 1 1/2moa is all the accuracy the average hunter needs, and it is easy today - far easier than it was in the past - to get an affordable, off the shelf rifle that will do that. You have more stringent requirements, and thatís great, and we need people with the patience and wallet to push the accuracy envelope. But when the question is ďI want to try hunting, do I need to spend a lot on a rifle?Ē the answer is clearly no, and we should all applaud that.

As to how a rifle makes you feel, that is a totally different, entirely subjective topic for another thread.


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  #212  
Old 05-23-2019, 3:28 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
I agree, the gun with the better barrel SHOULD shoot better. But that doesnít mean it has to. There are dozens of variables at play, not the least of which is sometimes you happen to get a real gem of a cheap rifle, and sometimes you spend a lot and end up disappointed.

As to the subject of this thread, 1 1/2moa is all the accuracy the average hunter needs, and it is easy today - far easier than it was in the past - to get an affordable, off the shelf rifle that will do that. You have more stringent requirements, and thatís great, and we need people with the patience and wallet to push the accuracy envelope. But when the question is ďI want to try hunting, do I need to spend a lot on a rifle?Ē the answer is clearly no, and we should all applaud that.

As to how a rifle makes you feel, that is a totally different, entirely subjective topic for another thread.


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lets agree to disagree.
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  #213  
Old 05-23-2019, 3:34 AM
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Default Why buy cheap rifles for hunting?

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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Thatís the next thing Iím working on. I have no doubt sheíll be a good shooter when everything is done.



I do have a question for you though that is somewhat relevant to this thread, and that is the maximum typical accuracy achievable with different cartridges. In your opinion, are most cartridges capable of similar accuracy, or are some generally superior? Iím wondering if part of my experience has to do with the particular calibers involved. The Ruger is a 6mm CM, and a 1/2moa rifle in that caliber doesnít seem all that uncommon, whereas the VZ24 is a 25-06, and in my limited experience Iím not sure Iíve ever heard of a 1/2moa 25-06. I have no doubt itís possible to make one, but are some cartridges just easier to coax that level of accuracy from?





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YES!!



look at the cartridges the benchrest guys shoot if your looking for max accuracy...but as or even more so....consistency is important too....a 25-06 is not known for being a super accurate cartridge...can it be made accurate sure it can but with a little more work than say a 6mm.

This is the load development target from my 6BR...105g hybrid .025 off the lands...10 charge weights from 29.1 to 30.9g of varget....4 rounds at each dot



This is a 6BRX....same load at 100 and 700yds...108g Berger and varget...the one to the left was me or wind...5 rounds at both




Last edited by longrange1; 05-23-2019 at 3:47 AM..
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  #214  
Old 05-23-2019, 4:57 AM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
YES!!



look at the cartridges the benchrest guys shoot if your looking for max accuracy...but as or even more so....consistency is important too....a 25-06 is not known for being a super accurate cartridge...can it be made accurate sure it can but with a little more work than say a 6mm.

This is the load development target from my 6BR...105g hybrid .025 off the lands...10 charge weights from 29.1 to 30.9g of varget....4 rounds at each dot



This is a 6BRX....same load at 100 and 700yds...108g Berger and varget...the one to the left was me or wind...5 rounds at both





So, based on the ďinherentĒ accuracy potential of a round like the 6mm CM, is it really that shocking that a factory rifle in that caliber might be more accurate than a custom 25-06? Do you have an opinion as to what level of accuracy it would be reasonable to expect of a cartridge like 25-06?

Every 6mm rifle I own (a 243LBC, a 243Win, and 2 6mm CMs) shoots under ĺ moa, and does so with little load work. My cheap Ruger put its first ladder test into a 0.91Ē group. I have a 7mm-08 and a 7mm Rem. Mag that with careful load development I have got into the 0.6s. Iím genuinely wondering whatís a reasonable goal for the 25-06 so Iím not spending hours chasing a result the cartridge may not be capable of.


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  #215  
Old 05-23-2019, 5:11 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
As to the subject of this thread, 1 1/2moa is all the accuracy the average hunter needs,
I just find that ^ the perfect example of what so many people don't understand.

Take a 1-1/2 gun, mate it to a shooter with their own inaccuracies, ad uncertain distance, drop, wind and then they expect to shoot 300 yards maybe further.

This BS is fine for <100 shots; but the entire "it's only hunting" and "As long as I can hit a pie plate" rhetoric shows a huge lack of understanding, especially when their next breath is "I zero 2" high at 100 so I can shoot anything easily out to 300" is beyond pale.
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  #216  
Old 05-23-2019, 5:47 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
So, based on the “inherent” accuracy potential of a round like the 6mm CM, is it really that shocking that a factory rifle in that caliber might be more accurate than a custom 25-06?
its possible but hard to believe...like i said when a custom wont shoot theres a problem or everyone would be shooting $400 dollar rifles.

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Do you have an opinion as to what level of accuracy it would be reasonable to expect of a cartridge like 25-06?
i dont know...personally i would not build or buy a 25-06...if i wanted a hot rod/hunting 65 id build a 65-284 a 65 SLR or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Every 6mm rifle I own (a 243LBC, a 243Win, and 2 6mm CMs) shoots under ĺ moa, and does so with little load work. My cheap Ruger put its first ladder test into a 0.91” group. I have a 7mm-08 and a 7mm Rem. Mag that with careful load development I have got into the 0.6s. I’m genuinely wondering what’s a reasonable goal for the 25-06 so I’m not spending hours chasing a result the cartridge may not be capable of.


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how far did you shoot this ladder with the ruger that it shot under an inch?
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  #217  
Old 05-23-2019, 5:49 AM
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I just find that ^ the perfect example of what so many people don't understand.

Take a 1-1/2 gun, mate it to a shooter with their own inaccuracies, ad uncertain distance, drop, wind and then they expect to shoot 300 yards maybe further.

This BS is fine for <100 shots; but the entire "it's only hunting" and "As long as I can hit a pie plate" rhetoric shows a huge lack of understanding, especially when their next breath is "I zero 2" high at 100 so I can shoot anything easily out to 300" is beyond pale.
i agree 100%...i want the most accurate gun i can have no matter what its used for.
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  #218  
Old 05-23-2019, 8:08 AM
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This thread keeps coming back to the same point in favor of the cheaper rifles..."It shoots 1 MOA its good enough."

Here's my whole issue with this, it shoots on average 1 MOA. To get an average, there are rounds that fall outside that average, some fall inside of it. When you pull that trigger on a deer at 200 yards, what round are you going to get, the one well inside the average, or the one well outside of it? Add in a wind call, buck fever, and a likely pour shooting position, that 1 MOA average is really starting to go out the window.

Then my other point I've made in this thread, is a plastic blow mold stock on a cheap rifle, going to be as strong as a hand laid fiberglass? Is a 3-9x40 blister pack scope going to hold zero if its bumped like a $1000 Nightforce? Is a $20 bi-pod from china going to perform like a $100 Harris? I get where guys are coming from on, if I spent less on it I don't care if I beat it up. But I would rather spend more on equipment that I know will survive a fall and not ruin my hunt.

For me, I choose to spend more on my rifles and equipment because I', buying consistency and ruggedness. I'm not spending more on rifles to get a more accurate gun. Because yes a $300 bargain rifle can be accurate. But it won't be as consistent or as rugged, as a higher end rifle.
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  #219  
Old 05-23-2019, 8:13 AM
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I also understand that hunting for the great majority of people, means hanging out in a camp with 5 other guys, and driving the same roads every year. If your yearly hunting trip, is camping with guns, that's great, enjoy your time outdoors. For the majority of hunters that fall into this, a bargain basement rifle will likely be all they ever need.
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  #220  
Old 05-23-2019, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
I also understand that hunting for the great majority of people, means hanging out in a camp with 5 other guys, and driving the same roads every year. If your yearly hunting trip, is camping with guns, that's great, enjoy your time outdoors. For the majority of hunters that fall into this, a bargain basement rifle will likely be all they ever need.
Exact opposite. This case opens the door to who has the best rifle in camp.

The gentleman who thinks 1 1/2Ē MOA is all a hunter needs may be talking about whitetail deer hunting back east where a 100 yards is the longest Shot ever needed.
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  #221  
Old 05-23-2019, 9:14 AM
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I also understand that hunting for the great majority of people, means hanging out in a camp with 5 other guys, and driving the same roads every year. If your yearly hunting trip, is camping with guns, that's great, enjoy your time outdoors. For the majority of hunters that fall into this, a bargain basement rifle will likely be all they ever need.
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Exact opposite. This case opens the door to who has the best rifle in camp.

The gentleman who thinks 1 1/2Ē MOA is all a hunter needs may be talking about whitetail deer hunting back east where a 100 yards is the longest Shot ever needed.
Talking guns, same thing happens around the campfire as is happening in this thread. Then the guy that drives the old 80's clunky Toyota PU and uses H&R single shot or an old Savage 340 fills his tag/s while everyone else gets skunked.
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  #222  
Old 05-23-2019, 9:17 AM
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Talking guns, same thing happens around the campfire as is happening in this thread. Then the guy that drives the old 80's clunky Toyota PU and uses H&R single shot or an old Savage 340 fills his tag/s while everyone else gets skunked.
So true.
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  #223  
Old 05-23-2019, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
are some cartridges just easier to coax that level of accuracy from?
Short squatty cartridges like the BR series are easier to get very accurate results from.
The 6 creedmoor is very close to a 6mmBR.

The longer/skinnier the powder column, the more picky they become.
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  #224  
Old 05-23-2019, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
how far did you shoot this ladder with the ruger that it shot under an inch?
Most people think a ladder test is shooting groups at 100yds.
Most people don't understand how/why a ladder test really is done and what it's used for or the importance of the distance it's shot at and the resulting readability of the results at longrange compared to shortrange.
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  #225  
Old 05-23-2019, 10:03 AM
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Then the guy that drives the old 80's clunky Toyota PU and uses H&R single shot or an old Savage 340 fills his tag/s while everyone else gets skunked.
I'll take my Savage 24 thank you.
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  #226  
Old 05-23-2019, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tsmithson View Post
The gentleman who thinks 1 1/2Ē MOA is all a hunter needs may be talking about whitetail deer hunting back east where a 100 yards is the longest Shot ever needed.
Those with archery only tags harvested 629 bucks last season according to the 2019 California Big Game Hunting Digest. What's the average range for a bowhunter - maybe 40-50 yards?

Setting aside the folks who view hunting as a camping trip with their buds, it seems to me the shot one NEEDS is not the same as the shot one is willing to take. I need a shot under 200 yards because that's within my comfort zone and I'm willing to come home empty handed if the alternative is having to chase a wounded critter. Now if you need the meat or the trophy or if you're less willing than I am to come home empty handed, that's another story.

I wonder if it's legal to hunt with a spear?
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  #227  
Old 05-23-2019, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Most people think a ladder test is shooting groups at 100yds.
Most people don't understand how/why a ladder test really is done and what it's used for or the importance of the distance it's shot at and the resulting readability of the results at longrange compared to shortrange.
yep thats why i asked.
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  #228  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
This thread keeps coming back to the same point in favor of the cheaper rifles..."It shoots 1 MOA its good enough."

Here's my whole issue with this, it shoots on average 1 MOA. To get an average, there are rounds that fall outside that average, some fall inside of it. When you pull that trigger on a deer at 200 yards, what round are you going to get, the one well inside the average, or the one well outside of it? Add in a wind call, buck fever, and a likely pour shooting position, that 1 MOA average is really starting to go out the window.

Then my other point I've made in this thread, is a plastic blow mold stock on a cheap rifle, going to be as strong as a hand laid fiberglass? Is a 3-9x40 blister pack scope going to hold zero if its bumped like a $1000 Nightforce? Is a $20 bi-pod from china going to perform like a $100 Harris? I get where guys are coming from on, if I spent less on it I don't care if I beat it up. But I would rather spend more on equipment that I know will survive a fall and not ruin my hunt.

For me, I choose to spend more on my rifles and equipment because I', buying consistency and ruggedness. I'm not spending more on rifles to get a more accurate gun. Because yes a $300 bargain rifle can be accurate. But it won't be as consistent or as rugged, as a higher end rifle.


Never said anything about averages. Iím talking maximums - as in if I say a rifle shoots 1 Ĺ moa I mean it always puts up groups no worse than that (assuming, of course, the shooter does his part). Itís important to separate the performance of the equipment from the performance of the meat sack pulling the trigger. Iíve seen plenty of shooters that couldnít fire a 1Ē group with any rifle.

Iím surprised this whole thread has generated as much dissension as it has. 100 years ago a 1 Ĺ moa rifle would have been a real rarity, and plenty of hunters killed plenty of game. Today we have much better bullets, much better optics, etc., but somehow we need benchrest-accurate field rifles to take game?

What we need, more than anything, is more hunters. If inexpensive but serviceable package rifles help bring that about, great.


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  #229  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Most people think a ladder test is shooting groups at 100yds.
Most people don't understand how/why a ladder test really is done and what it's used for or the importance of the distance it's shot at and the resulting readability of the results at longrange compared to shortrange.


100 yards. Just an initial test over the chrono looking for a velocity node. The 12-round test with H4350 put up a sub 1Ē group. Same test with Hybrid 100v went into about 1.3Ē. Considering a nearly 300fps change between the ends of the test both groups surprised me.


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Old 05-25-2019, 12:52 AM
isntzen isntzen is offline
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I love these exchanges, due to the price of admission and their educational value.

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Old 05-25-2019, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
100 yards. Just an initial test over the chrono looking for a velocity node. The 12-round test with H4350 put up a sub 1Ē group. Same test with Hybrid 100v went into about 1.3Ē. Considering a nearly 300fps change between the ends of the test both groups surprised me.


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This is why ladders are shot at min 300yds and should really be shot at 500+yds...i Played with loading by volume and out to about 300yds I had pretty good results past that not so much...and not so much from velocity but more from the bullet leaving the barrel when it was in different positions
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:13 AM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Thatís the next thing Iím working on. I have no doubt sheíll be a good shooter when everything is done.

I do have a question for you though that is somewhat relevant to this thread, and that is the maximum typical accuracy achievable with different cartridges. In your opinion, are most cartridges capable of similar accuracy, or are some generally superior? Iím wondering if part of my experience has to do with the particular calibers involved. The Ruger is a 6mm CM, and a 1/2moa rifle in that caliber doesnít seem all that uncommon, whereas the VZ24 is a 25-06, and in my limited experience Iím not sure Iíve ever heard of a 1/2moa 25-06. I have no doubt itís possible to make one, but are some cartridges just easier to coax that level of accuracy from?


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I didn't take the time to read through all of the posts so if your questions have already been answered skip this post.

The 25-06 is easy to load for but suffer's from a horrible bullet selection choices.
Try the 117 Sierra bthp spitzer or the 115 Berger. Use 4831 and Hodgdon or IMR both work well as does RE22 and start near book max on your charge weight.
Stay away from all the lightweight varmint type bullets and it should shoot very well.
The VZ24 action has two main concerns. First they are very old and most guys have never replaced the firing pin spring even though they cost less than $10.
Next is nobody epoxy beds the scope bases even though alot if these rifles have had the original markings ground off of them.
You can remove the top half of each ring individually and see the scope floating in air 0.003
Also because of the thumb cutout the receiver is usually extremely thin on the left hand rail and will flex alot. Bed the action and it should take away those pesky flyers.
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:31 AM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
This is why ladders are shot at min 300yds and should really be shot at 500+yds...i Played with loading by volume and out to about 300yds I had pretty good results past that not so much...and not so much from velocity but more from the bullet leaving the barrel when it was in different positions
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Old 05-25-2019, 9:03 AM
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So much crazy stuff here in this thread, I am dumbfounded and would take a lifetime to dispute alot of what was said. So I will not even try,LOL

I do know a Deer in the bag here in Nebraska is about a 100.00 venture and that could probably include the Rifle and ammo,LOL


More Deer for example have been taken with a lowly Winchester Model 94 30-30 than any other Firearm in History. They are by far a expensive Firearm. And within reasonable distance a scope is not even a necessary accessory.

This high end stuff is more often than not marketed to some wealthy guy that has more money than sense in my opinion. Guy that usually buys this high end stuff is someone who probably could not hit a Watermelon at ten yards, and the more he spends will not help either, but his friends will surely impressed on how much he spent. Kinda like the guy that spends 40,000 on a Bass boat,and I out fish him in my 1969 500.00 Runabout.

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Old 05-25-2019, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
So much crazy stuff here in this thread, I am dumbfounded and would take a lifetime to dispute alot of what was said. So I will not even try,LOL

I do know a Deer in the bag here in Nebraska is about a 100.00 venture and that could probably include the Rifle and ammo,LOL


More Deer for example have been taken with a lowly Winchester Model 94 30-30 than any other Firearm in History. They are by far a expensive Firearm. And within reasonable distance a scope is not even a necessary accessory.

This high end stuff is more often than not marketed to some wealthy guy that has more money than sense in my opinion. Guy that usually buys this high end stuff is someone who probably could not hit a Watermelon at ten yards, and the more he spends will not help either, but his friends will surely impressed on how much he spent. Kinda like the guy that spends 40,000 on a Bass boat,and I out fish him in my 1969 500.00 Runabout.
That's similar to Southwest Virginia. I took my Marlin 30-30 out for a walk, and 5 minutes later I was aiming at a whitetail 30 yard away. That is the normal situation.
I assembled a 6.5 Grendel AR for one long shot. There is a hillside 300ish yards behind my old house. The only shot on a deer I ever made with that $1,200 rifle was 47 yards.
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Old 05-25-2019, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
So much crazy stuff here in this thread, I am dumbfounded and would take a lifetime to dispute alot of what was said. So I will not even try,LOL

I do know a Deer in the bag here in Nebraska is about a 100.00 venture and that could probably include the Rifle and ammo,LOL


More Deer for example have been taken with a lowly Winchester Model 94 30-30 than any other Firearm in History. They are by far a expensive Firearm. And within reasonable distance a scope is not even a necessary accessory.

This high end stuff is more often than not marketed to some wealthy guy that has more money than sense in my opinion. Guy that usually buys this high end stuff is someone who probably could not hit a Watermelon at ten yards, and the more he spends will not help either, but his friends will surely impressed on how much he spent. Kinda like the guy that spends 40,000 on a Bass boat,and I out fish him in my 1969 500.00 Runabout.
Keep the gloves above the belt. No cheap shots to the nuts.
This is Cal Guns where the hunters love their guns more then harvesting. An accurate gun is EVERYTHING! Hunting is just a fun excuse to take our guns for a walk in heavenly places.
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Old 05-25-2019, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
So much crazy stuff here in this thread, I am dumbfounded and would take a lifetime to dispute alot of what was said. So I will not even try,LOL

I do know a Deer in the bag here in Nebraska is about a 100.00 venture and that could probably include the Rifle and ammo,LOL


More Deer for example have been taken with a lowly Winchester Model 94 30-30 than any other Firearm in History. They are by far a expensive Firearm. And within reasonable distance a scope is not even a necessary accessory.

This high end stuff is more often than not marketed to some wealthy guy that has more money than sense in my opinion. Guy that usually buys this high end stuff is someone who probably could not hit a Watermelon at ten yards, and the more he spends will not help either, but his friends will surely impressed on how much he spent. Kinda like the guy that spends 40,000 on a Bass boat,and I out fish him in my 1969 500.00 Runabout.
Thanks for listing your state as it matters.
Your posting on Calguns not treestandguns or blindguns so the distances and gear used will be different. You won't see many guys in California using slugs in a shotgun.
I hunted in Europe and anything over 45 yards is crazy long distance even though I got my deer at 80 yards. The locals couldn't believe the shot.

The pictures show typical California blacktail country.
I have killed plenty of deer under 100 yards but you can't count on it unless you hunt only private land.
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  #238  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:27 PM
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I have a 1905 Swede Mauser that was rebarreled by them sometime later. It seemed to be unfired when I bought it in the mid 90's for $99. With a long eye relief scope, I can't imagine shooting anything more accurate. I sold a Winchester Model 70 because it dissapointed me after 3 range sessions. Haha.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
I didn't take the time to read through all of the posts so if your questions have already been answered skip this post.



The 25-06 is easy to load for but suffer's from a horrible bullet selection choices.

Try the 117 Sierra bthp spitzer or the 115 Berger. Use 4831 and Hodgdon or IMR both work well as does RE22 and start near book max on your charge weight.

Stay away from all the lightweight varmint type bullets and it should shoot very well.

The VZ24 action has two main concerns. First they are very old and most guys have never replaced the firing pin spring even though they cost less than $10.

Next is nobody epoxy beds the scope bases even though alot if these rifles have had the original markings ground off of them.

You can remove the top half of each ring individually and see the scope floating in air 0.003

Also because of the thumb cutout the receiver is usually extremely thin on the left hand rail and will flex alot. Bed the action and it should take away those pesky flyers.


I appreciate the info, and Iíve actually never even heard of bedding scope bases, though the concept makes sense. I changed the rings on this rifle but couldnít get the bases to budge so I didnít force things. The rifle is pre-war and was originally sporterized by a gunsmith in WA. I had Randall swap the barrel once I discovered the barrel on it was a 1:14 twist. Iíve only tried the 100gr TTSX thus far, and theyíre shooting about 1 ĹĒ at 100 yards. But, nothing is bedded yet and I think I have a very small point of contact about 8Ē in front of the chamber that needs to be cleaned up. I have no doubt it will shoot sub-moa by the time itís 100% complete.

While I have the 6mm CM Ruger American that is freakishly accurate (and will do just about anything the 25-06 will do), I continue to work on this one, knowing I will never get the pride of ownership from the Ruger I will get with the Czech Mauser. I very clearly understand both sides of the argument here, and I think most people would understand the pleasure derived from buying a cheap something and being pleasantly surprised when it surpasses your expectations, and the pain of indulging in an expensive something and being disappointed.


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  #240  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:33 PM
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There is no ending to this chat. But loved how it keeps on going and going. I don't care if which rifle is better than one another as long as it shoots and you understand the full potential of the rifle. Most of the time the rifle or barrel will shoot greater than anyone that pulls the trigger. Put it this way if you give a shooter that is very skill a cheap rifle and you give a high end or custom rifle to a beginner that has never shot rifle be4, what out come will it be... Most likely the skilled, however if it was a long range than it plays by the scope and bullet. But than 95% the shooter behind the rifle doesn't know how to play with the scope. You can give them the best bullets to shoot and it'll be missed. All and all you have to understand the rifle and the equipment that the rifle.
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