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Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

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  #1  
Old 05-13-2019, 1:05 PM
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Default lead shot and "balance" on a shotgun: good starting place?

Let's say you wanted to add some lead to the (hollow, synthetic) stock of a shotgun, so that a new shooter would have a more pleasant time WRT recoil and balance.

Accepting that everybody's tastes are slightly different in balance, but that it takes time to figure out what you like, where would you set the balance point on the shotgun at first? I'm thinking the trigger is about halfway between the shoulder and the front hand, that seems a good place to start, but y'all know better than I.

Also, is there any benefit (recoil-wise) to giving the lead shot room to "flow" like in a deadblow hammer, or is it better to just pack it in in a more or less "fixed" mounting?
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Old 05-13-2019, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
Let's say you wanted to add some lead to the (hollow, synthetic) stock of a shotgun, so that a new shooter would have a more pleasant time WRT recoil and balance.

Accepting that everybody's tastes are slightly different in balance, but that it takes time to figure out what you like, where would you set the balance point on the shotgun at first? I'm thinking the trigger is about halfway between the shoulder and the front hand, that seems a good place to start, but y'all know better than I.

Also, is there any benefit (recoil-wise) to giving the lead shot room to "flow" like in a deadblow hammer, or is it better to just pack it in in a more or less "fixed" mounting?
I can't give you any expertise on balance, other than I had an on-call professional in Dallas fit my Beretta Silver Pigeon to me...made a hell of a difference.

Lead shot moving will give additional felt recoil as it slams into the rear of the stock, same as a dead-blow hammer...I'd suggest packing it in and using smaller shot so you maximize weight.

Mercury recoil reducers do a nice job on the guns I've shot...not sure they're available in California, though.
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Old 05-13-2019, 2:18 PM
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What kind of shotgun (break-action, semi-auto, pump) and what's it getting used for?

I personally like a somewhat nose-heavy gun for clay sports because it helps with follow-through, but I like a neutral or even whippy (butt-heavy) gun for shooting quail/chukar when they pop up out of the brush. A hunting gun also has to be comfortable for me to carry around all day in brush and terrain.

If you want to add weight to help with recoil, probably best to fasten it to the gun. Loose shot will stay inertially at rest while the gun jumps just like it did before, then slosh around after the shot. Many an old-school wooden stock got cracked and broken because the owner would drill a hole and dump some loose shot in it to get the same effect you're looking for.
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2019, 2:37 PM
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What kind of shotgun (break-action, semi-auto, pump) and what's it getting used for?
A300 Outlander. At first, will be used for clay sports, but that's practice and training to build skill towards hunting.

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Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
but I like a neutral or even whippy (butt-heavy) gun for shooting quail/chukar when they pop up out of the brush.
I have no doubt that things will get adjusted as she gets used to a shotgun and learns what she likes and doesn't, but I'm just looking for a starting spot with, hopefully, some recoil control.

If you don't mind taking a look at one of your "neutral" shotguns, about where along the axis is the balance point?

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A hunting gun also has to be comfortable for me to carry around all day in brush and terrain.
Yep... but as she gets more used to the recoil and better at mounting/shooting the gun, a lighter shotgun will be less likely to make her say "eff it" and have a bad time.
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2019, 2:52 PM
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The A300 is a pretty soft shooting gun. What’s most important, is that the gun fit the shooter. With the synthetic stock, you have quite a bit of adjustability for LOP, as well as drop. 2nd, would be to shoot 2 3/4” 1oz loads at 1180fps. You should be able to find these (Estate or Winchester White box) at Wally World. Going to be about as soft shooting as you’ll get.

Last edited by XVIga_Rob; 05-13-2019 at 2:57 PM..
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2019, 3:10 PM
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I've got a solid collection of Herter's "low recoil" target rounds for this very purpose... as well as a few boxes of various other brands left over from my past trips to the clay range...
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Old 05-13-2019, 8:07 PM
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Book her a day with Don and the Crew .....I'm sure what you are asking has been covered in the past...time for a refresher.

Somewhere there is, one of my posts, tuning my Benelli M2 ...

Found the link..but all the pics are gone...may not be much help

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...i#post19552511

Last edited by Thefeeder; 05-13-2019 at 8:19 PM..
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2019, 8:45 PM
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I'm a long time Don fan... But his coaching style didn't jive with the Mrs.
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Old 05-13-2019, 8:51 PM
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I'm a long time Don fan... But his coaching style didn't jive with the Mrs.
He has mellowed (a bit) with age
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2019, 9:55 PM
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It wasn't the gruffness, it was the general "just do it, learn as you go" style.

She's got more the temperment of a PRS or bullseye shooter...
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
I'm a long time Don fan... But his coaching style didn't jive with the Mrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
He has mellowed (a bit) with age
I think, Don has evolved to 2.0 and goes easy on the female students.

These are recent clinics with the female students I took photos and videos.

SoCalSkeetClinic-05-04-19
SoCalSkeetClinic-04-27-19
SoCalSkeetClinic-02-16-19
SoCalSkeetClinic-01-27-19
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2019, 12:13 AM
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BFG - this is Dave from Hollywood Optical - pm me and we can arrange to meet at the lab (ideally with your gf and her gun) and work out what balance feels best to her. Then we can go over the best/easiest ways to accomplish that with a synthetic stocked gun. Iíve balanced a few synthetic guns and there are options to consider.

Good luck and safe shooting.
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Old 05-14-2019, 3:55 AM
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Good recoil pad and tough it out until comfortable with recoil . unless you are a complete wimp.
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Old 05-14-2019, 7:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
A300 Outlander

If you don't mind taking a look at one of your "neutral" shotguns, about where along the axis is the balance point?
Sure thing - I've a semi-auto 20ga that fits that bill. The balance point is basically centered on the loading/ejection ports in the receiver.

When I carry it one handed (not ready to shoot) my pinky is near the front of the trigger guard, my palm covers the ejection port, and it hangs level in my hand.
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2019, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohn View Post
) and work out what balance feels best to her.
This is the problem... right now, as littlel time as she has with a shotgun, if I ask her "how it feels" I'll get a shrug of the shoulders and a vaguely annoyed look. She'll eventually develop a very clear list of things she does and doesn't like, but right now I just want to get things close enough to make a comfortable start.

Her hunting rifle is a 30-06, so this isn't going to knock her over or blow out her shoulder, but I'd like to make things a bit more comfortable upfront so the learning curve is easier than it could be, otherwise.

Thank you for your offer. At some point in the future, once she's got some rounds under her belt, I'm sure we'll both have some meaningful questions for you. (this being my first "nice" shotgun, I'm sure I'll go through a similar path.)
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2019, 8:15 AM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Good recoil pad and tough it out until comfortable with recoil . unless you are a complete wimp.
1: It's a safe bet I'm much larger and stronger than you
2: Mrs. BFG, most likely, isn't larger than you, but chances are she's also stronger
3: While we're at it, let's do EVERYTHING by the stupidest possible way. Unless you're a complete wimp.
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2019, 8:15 AM
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Sure thing...
Thank you!
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Old 05-14-2019, 8:48 AM
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Thank you!
No problem.

I hate to say it (because it's the gun you have), but it's possible that a 12ga just might be too much for her. It's all subjective, of course.

I completely agree that if she ain't havin' fun, it's all going to end poorly. A 20ga semi-auto could be just the ticket.
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2019, 9:14 AM
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I hate to say it (because it's the gun you have), but it's possible that a 12ga just might be too much for her. It's all subjective, of course.
Based on how she advanced through hunting rifle calibers, it's well within her capabilities, and since the intent is ultimately for hunting, the idea of being "sporting" or "challenging yourself" doesn't really apply. The best caliber is the one that gives the best chance of bringing down the bird/rabbit. (We went with 30-06 rifles because SHE selected that caliber, to put things in perspective.)

However, I will make sure her trip is pleasant as I can, and if she decides 20g is the way to go, we'll do that. Rest assured, I'm not the type to "little lady" my wife... and she's not the type to have it done to her.
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Old 05-14-2019, 9:29 AM
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Yeah, it certainly wasn't my intent to imply the little lady thing, nor that 20ga is somehow more sporting or adds challenge.

IMO, it's actually a complete myth that 12ga offers better odds of bringing down game as compared to 20ga. The shot column is either on the animal or it is not. If she's not thinking about recoil, her percentages are likely to go up no matter what chambering is used.

Debate about shot payload weight and bore size differences is just splitting hairs and getting into fringe statistics.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:43 AM
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Youíre on the right path. A comfortable gun is more pleasurable to shoot. A light load in a heavier gun = less felt recoil. Once that A300 is well used/broken in, it should be capable of cycling lighter loads. Until then, the 1oz loads may be as light as you can go, that will Reliably cycle the action. Really not a problem, as they shoot pretty soft. Not that the stock pad is not comfortable, I upgraded to a Beretta MicroCore Field pad (.59). Fits the gun perfectly, and softer than Stock pad.
https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/ber...il-pad/e7300/k
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2019, 6:37 PM
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Mercury Recoil Suppressors I ordered from Brownells arrived. This is for my Remington V3. I wanted this gun to be a bit heavier like my other guns (Remington Model 58 and 1100).

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190524_121204579.jpg (92.7 KB, 108 views)
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2019, 6:17 AM
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Hamajun!! where does that go on the gun? in the magazine tube? what holds it in there?
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Old 05-25-2019, 6:19 AM
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I just read up on them! pretty sweet might make my semi swing like an o/u.
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:16 AM
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https://www.briley.com/p-61826-beret...nys-urika.aspx

http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/suppressors/index.htm#top

Bunch of different products to add weight and balance. Getting the shotgun fitted for her and a good recoil pad is where I would start.

Currently have a limbsaver recoil pad that I’ve found to be the most comfortable. I’ve had the stock pad, micro core and slip on limbsaver over the stock pad in the past. Micro core got chewed up on the sides while hunting (I think). Limbsavers hold up well.
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:25 AM
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https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/10702

10702

LimbSaver 10702 Classic Precision-Fit Recoil Pad https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008KUV11Y..._p3v6Cb1Q4T4PP
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:28 AM
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The limbsaver is a thick pad so it may not be the best option. The advantage of berettas micro core pad is there are different thicknesses for proper lop.

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/ber...oil-pad/e7300/
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2019, 12:29 PM
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I'd be wary of adding weight to the back of a shotgun. It might throw it out of balance.

I shoot an A300 and with 1oz of #8's going 1200 fps it's kitten soft.

The biggest issue I see with women shooters is bad stance, and poor gun fit. They tend to sit back over their hips, and mount the shotgun low on their shoulder.

Then they lean their head over at a 45 degree angle. Plus a lot of women are cross eye dominant.

Ymmv
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:32 PM
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Red bra is optional

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Old 05-25-2019, 5:11 PM
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ysr I heard that's what you wear is the red one!!!
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  #31  
Old 05-25-2019, 6:27 PM
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Hamajun!! where does that go on the gun? in the magazine tube? what holds it in there?
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Originally Posted by whutsup40 View Post
I just read up on them! pretty sweet might make my semi swing like an o/u.
You can try my V3 with these mercury weights at Moore N Moore on Monday.

I didn't buy them to reduce the recoil as V3 is a soft shooter, probably softer than A300. I just wanted to make the gun heavier. Well, I can return them to Brownells for free if I don't like them. I'll see.
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Old 05-25-2019, 8:47 PM
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The Shotgun forum is always entertaining.

If you ask about gun fit, you're told to work on your mount.
If you ask about mount, you're told to make sure the gun fits.

Sometimes you just have to start somewhere, folks.
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Old 05-25-2019, 9:27 PM
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The Shotgun forum is always entertaining.

If you ask about gun fit, you're told to work on your mount.
If you ask about mount, you're told to make sure the gun fits.

Sometimes you just have to start somewhere, folks.
Much like when you build a house, the foundation comes first (I'm guessing) and the roof goes on last (again I'm guessing).

But hey, if you already have a plan, why ask?
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:00 PM
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We put lead in the handlebars of motorcycles to dampen vibrations!
Back on topic ... pack the lead towards the inside of the stock. Put a buffer so it won't ride against the stock bolt. Do not let the lead have movement in there. See if you can find an forend weighted screw cap.
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  #35  
Old 05-26-2019, 7:06 AM
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Most women aren't as strong as men to start with. Adding weight is probably a step in the wrong direction.

The last thing you want is for a new shooter to not have fun. But you guys are obviously much smarter them I am, so add a few bricks.

That should do the trick.
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Old 05-26-2019, 7:09 AM
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We put lead in the handlebars of motorcycles to dampen vibrations!
.
I only raced motorcycles for 15 years, and we always tried to lighten them, not make them heavier. What kind of bikes vibrate so badly?
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:22 PM
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I only raced motorcycles for 15 years, and we always tried to lighten them, not make them heavier. What kind of bikes vibrate so badly?
Harley twins. Huge single dual sports. In fact my XL600 single came stock withe solid steel bar end plugs to reduce vibration to the mirrors.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:40 PM
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Hey BFG, here's my recommendation based on my own experience in teaching my wife how to shoot trap. She's a very small woman, about 100lbs and had never shot a shotgun or rifle (or any other long guns) previously.

To reduce the felt recoil from the gun, the trick is not on the gun itself. No matter what you do, the backward movement of the gun is focused on a relatively tiny area of the stock; sort of like a spear that jabs back into your woman's shoulder.

So to reduce the amount of felt recoil, get her a good shooting vest with a recoil pad on it. Beretta ones are very good as their recoil pad is much larger than others. This not only allows the recoil to spread out over a larger area, it also helps if she mounts the gun a little off and the larger pad will still protect her.

The other thing you can do to help, is to put a gel pad on the stock. Beretta makes a nice one and you can get it on Amazon. This helps greatly in reducing bruising on the cheek and also makes pressing her cheek on the stock a lot more comfortable.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Most women aren't as strong as men to start with. Adding weight is probably a step in the wrong direction.

The last thing you want is for a new shooter to not have fun. But you guys are obviously much smarter them I am, so add a few bricks.

That should do the trick.
This is correct. You do not want to add weight to your shotgun, in fact, you'll want something as light as possible. If their arms get sore after shooting, they'll not want to go shoot again.

It was for this reason I started my wife out trap shooting with a Benelli M2 Compact.
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Old 05-26-2019, 1:50 PM
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Keep in mind, lugging a shotgun around a skeet field isn't bad.

Try shelping a Kreighoff (or a railroad tie, they're about the same) around a 14 station sporting clays course
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