Upland is going to renew! (Upland Stopped Issuing LTC's) (Upland LTC in 3 weeks)

[sixoclockhold]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

Its been two weeks; any news?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

No contact at this point. Grandma always used to say, "A watched kettle never boils"

Just noticed this:

"Last night at the City Council meeting, Brian Johnson was sworn in as the new Chief of Police for Upland PD. We welcome you and look forward to working with you."

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Uplan...02127606525912

So NOW, he is legally the Chief, I'm assuming.

[gwolff]

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold

No contact at this point. Grandma always used to say, "A watched kettle never boils"

Just noticed this:

"Last night at the City Council meeting, Brian Johnson was sworn in as the new Chief of Police for Upland PD. We welcome you and look forward to working with you."

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Uplan...02127606525912

So NOW, he is legally the Chief, I'm assuming.

I saw that on facebook! I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully he can get started on the permits soon, I'm sure things are backing up. I am at the point where I don't really think about it anymore.

I almost considered calling Luz to ask if there was anything I needing to be doing since I hadn't heard anything back from them yet, just to try and get a status update.

[sixoclockhold]

Gwolff

I'm sure you are chomping at the bit, would be normal for any of us at the stage you are in the process.

Lots of responsibility being a CCW, try focusing on that and how it will change your life, so you are well prepared.

[gwolff]

I have been researching this for about 4 years, I don't know how much more ready I can get without actually having a permit

[gwolff]

I decided to shoot Luz an email. I told her I was just wondering if there was anything I needed to do to move the process along and that I was aware there was a new Chief and that may be delaying things.

She said that the new Chief is reviewing their CCW policy and she would contact me when he had made his decision. Not the best thing to hear, but certainly not the worst.

How tragic it would be to have gotten through 99% of the process and paid 67% of the fees, only to have the process halted because of a new chief starting days before I should have picked up my permit..

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by gwolff

I decided to shoot Luz an email. I told her I was just wondering if there was anything I needed to do to move the process along and that I was aware there was a new Chief and that may be delaying things.

She said that the new Chief is reviewing their CCW policy and she would contact me when he had made his decision. Not the best thing to hear, but certainly not the worst.

How tragic it would be to have gotten through 99% of the process and paid 67% of the fees, only to have the process halted because of a new chief starting days before I should have picked up my permit..

That would completely suck!

Seeing as he comes from LAPD he is not used to having armed citizens in his city. I hope he warms to the idea.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

[sixoclockhold]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

That would completely suck!

Seeing as he comes from LAPD he is not used to having armed citizens in his city. I hope he warms to the idea.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

I got a giggle out of that, I'm sure he has had many encounter or heard there of armed citizens, just not good citizens. But yes, think I read recently LA had 371 CCW's? Can that be right?

But at any rate, this is his city now from a Law Enforcement stand point.

After 50 years in LA County I sure like my odds here overwhelmingly. 35 years wanting a CCW as business owner.
Fate Awaits....Not losing any sleep.

[evanr821]

Yeah definitely keep us posted. I'm not about to drop $105 on a ccw class on the 9th if we are getting screwed...

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold

I got a giggle out of that, I'm sure he has had many encounter or heard there of armed citizens, just not good citizens. But yes, think I read recently LA had 371 CCW's? Can that be right?

But at any rate, this is his city now from a Law Enforcement stand point.

After 50 years in LA County I sure like my odds here overwhelmingly.
Fate Awaits....Not losing any sleep.

Yeah, I guess I should have put "legally" armed citizens.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

[sixoclockhold]

Originally Posted by evanr821

Yeah definitely keep us posted. I'm not about to drop $105 on a ccw class on the 9th if we are getting screwed...

I would take the class, especially since they haven't told you not to.

Someday's you're the windshield, someday's the bug.

[evanr821]

Oh I plan on it, but if he's gonna pull the plug, I hope he does it before I pay my fees!

[sixoclockhold]

Originally Posted by evanr821

Oh I plan on it, but if he's gonna pull the plug, I hope he does it before I pay my fees!

We have to try and put ourselves in his shoes a moment if we can. He was with the LAPD a looooong time and signing the first CCW or approving the first app. will be very hard. He has never had this responsibility before. It's that pile of goodies on your desk, you just don't want to touch.

We need to cut him and the dept. slack and await the outcome.

[JTC3495]

If this all goes for the worse in Upland, I wonder if any of the fees you have paid will be transferable over to try and get your permit directly from San Bernardino.

I really am hoping that your new Chief will see the positives that CCW holders bring and continue on with issuing.

[gwolff]

Originally Posted by JTC3495

If this all goes for the worse in Upland, I wonder if any of the fees you have paid will be transferable over to try and get your permit directly from San Bernardino.

I really am hoping that your new Chief will see the positives that CCW holders bring and continue on with issuing.

I was wondering about this too.. Perhaps San Bernardino will be willing to "inherit" the applicants in limbo.

I am willing to cut him all the slack he wants. I don't mind if it takes him a while to approve it... It's the big unknown that makes it stressful

[Gwalker99]

Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal

That's actually one week too long....

lmao soooo true.. as if we have to BEG to get one and we have to wait like a doggie.

[Smitherines]

I hope it works out for you guys. I got my permit from the city in March. A weird feeling when I first started to carry, but that has passed and now it feels more like part of the routine. Keys? Check. Wallet? Check. Phone? Check. Holstered weapon? Check.

[esqui2809]

My buddy called to turn in app today they told him upland is no longer issuing ccw permits. I have my range date on the 9th but have not had any contact from upd, going to call upd tomorrow for an update and probably call SBSD to see if app, live scan and range training are transferable to the county.

[roadtrip]

Wow.

[gwolff]

Originally Posted by esqui2809

My buddy called to turn in app today they told him upland is no longer issuing ccw permits. I have my range date on the 9th but have not had any contact from upd, going to call upd tomorrow for an update and probably call SBSD to see if app, live scan and range training are transferable to the county.

Well that's the worst possible news. I have already completed my class and livescan so what are they gonna do with me? Hopefully sbcs will save us. If not I'd like a refund of the money they asked me to pay (guess I can't be compensated for my wasted time). I'm still crossing my fingers.

This is pretty frustrating. Being told I was approved pending livescan and ccw course and then saying oh wait, no you're not anymore, nearly a month after I completed the requirements..

The sad part is that everyone who was issued their permits by UPD will probably lose them at renewal time unless sbcs comes to the rescue.

[evanr821]

Im going to make a call and see if I'm good since I was approved, see if I should still go because the Sheriff Dept will honor it, or see if there's no point in going to the class on the 9th.

[gwolff]

Originally Posted by evanr821

Im going to make a call and see if I'm good since I was approved, see if I should still go because the Sheriff Dept will honor it, or see if there's no point in going to the class on the 9th.

Let me know what you hear. Might want to point out that your approval came before the policy change. It's unfair to approve someone, take their money for Livescan and the CCW course, and then say "oh we changed our policy now that you've completed your requirements."

Orange county is honoring those candidates whose approval was given before the Peruta case went en banc. That should give Upland an idea of how to proceed.

[evanr821]

Ok so here's the final verdict. I called Upland and talked to Luz. She said that since the policy changed, Upland is no longer moving forward with ANY open applications, no matter how far in the process anyone got. The fees are non-refundable and are a total loss on our part. (Sucks, but what are you going to do, sue Upland PD?)

With that being said, I called San Bernardino Sheriff's Dept and talked to the CCW office. They said that although it sucks, we would have to completely reapply for a CCW from the beginning. Fill out the application online, and turn it in and request for an interview. The interviews are at about 90 days out as of now. After that, you must do yet another Livescan as when they send it out, there is a code attached to the livescan and it has to be SBSD's code.

The lady at SB said that if you are scheduled for a class as you were "approved" for a CCW through Upland, YOU SHOULD NOT GO!. Once you are approved through SBSD, you will have to go through another class to get your permit.

So in short, this sucks, and there's nothing we can do about it, but there's still hope by going through the county.

[gwolff]

Unbelievable. I cancelled my March 20th interview in San Bernardino because I was approved in Upland.

[gwolff]

So to be clear here, I am out $205 and 5 months of my life. I have to redo a Livescan AND take the class that I already took at the county. How is this fair? Upland should be hit with lawsuits for this.

[roadtrip]

Again, wow. If what's been posted above is accurate, this is extremely poor form from Upland PD. They really ought to reimburse for the money they were given.

[evanr821]

Originally Posted by gwolff

So to be clear here, I am out $205 and 5 months of my life. I have to redo a Livescan AND take the class that I already took at the county. How is this fair? Upland should be hit with lawsuits for this.

Basically, yes. And yes, I think they should be hit hard with this. This is bull****.

Way to make friends new Chief, you're off to a great start.

[Daydrmr999]

If you were already approved, and told to schedule your class, I think upland is going to have to issue or refund the money you would be out had they not had you proceed with the livescan and class. This would be a very similar situation to orange county where the sherriff, under pressure, has continued to issue to those that were told to proceed with training.

[evanr821]

Originally Posted by roadtrip

Again, wow. If what's been posted above is accurate, this is extremely poor form from Upland PD. They really ought to reimburse for the money they were given.

I totally agree. This should be brought up at the next city council meeting. If you guys make an appearance, I'm willing to voice my thoughts as well.

[evanr821]

Would writing the daily bulletin to see if they would write a story on this be a good idea? Put the chief on blast.

[roadtrip]

As with anything, I would suggest taking a measured and friendly approach first. Write a reasonably toned letter to the chief explaining your predicament, and request that your funds be reimbursed based on their change in policy midway through your process. It's entirely possible that he just hasn't thought it through yet.

If that doesn't pan out, then yes, make your voice heard through other avenues.

[gwolff]

Agreed roadtrip. Lets use honey before vinegar. That being said, if it doesn't pan out for us, we should definitely get our voices out other ways.

The most logical thing is to issue us our permits and let us begin the process at the county level so that we can obtain county permits before our city permits expire.

[voodoomedman]

One of you should call Chuck Michel's office about this.


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[gwolff]

Originally Posted by evanr821

I totally agree. This should be brought up at the next city council meeting. If you guys make an appearance, I'm willing to voice my thoughts as well.

Evan I am willing to go the council meeting with you once we get some more answers from the department.

[gwolff]

Originally Posted by voodoomedman

One of you should call Chuck Michel's office about this.

That may be what it comes down to. I have my own attorney who I might chat with to hear his thoughts.

[roadtrip]

Regarding the Daily Bulletin and trying to air the grievance through that method...

I have ZERO faith in the Bulletin to accurately report ANYTHING.

I can see the headline now: "Crazy NRA Extremists Whine to City Council After Being Denied Dangerous GUN Permits".

[evanr821]

Originally Posted by roadtrip

Regarding the Daily Bulletin and trying to air the grievance through that method...

I have ZERO faith in the Bulletin to accurately report ANYTHING.

I can see the headline now: "Crazy NRA Extremists Whine to City Council After Being Denied Dangerous GUN Permits".

LOL god that would make me so mad!

[voodoomedman]

Originally Posted by gwolff

That may be what it comes down to. I have my own attorney who I might chat with to hear his thoughts.

Yeah. Just that Michel is behind a bunch of the winning lawsuits such as this in this state.


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[gwolff]

Originally Posted by roadtrip

Regarding the Daily Bulletin and trying to air the grievance through that method...

I have ZERO faith in the Bulletin to accurately report ANYTHING.

I can see the headline now: "Crazy NRA Extremists Whine to City Council After Being Denied Dangerous GUN Permits".

Just reading that induced physical pain on me

[v.kevin]

Wow. This is why we can't have nice things.

I'm sorry for you guys that got all the way to 98% loaded files and then it freezes up on you and you have to restart.

[roadtrip]

I would imagine that any Lawyer you speak with is going to want a paper trail, records of phone conversations, etc.

I would think that the following course of action would be reasonable:

1) Calmly and politely call Upland PD and ask about the status of your permit. (Remember, the people answering the phone there are NOT the ones that have caused this problem. They're most likely friendly, kind people that are stuck in the middle. Be nice.) Keep a record of the times/dates you call and who you spoke to, and a summary of the call's content.

2) Once you've verified that your permit's progress has been cancelled, write that reasonable letter to the Chief. Calmly explain your position, and that you'd like to either a) be refunded the money you spent or b) be considered for permit approval. Reinforce that you've lost money due to a change in policy midway through their process, not as a result of being denied for any reason other than this change in policy. Send the letter certified/return receipt or something that notifies you officially that it's been delivered.

3) Wait for a reasonable amount of time.

4) If no response, start calling your lawyer, talking to City Council etc.