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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2019, 1:14 PM
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Default New SIG boltgun: the "Cross", "Precision hunting bolt-action rifle"

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-cross-rifle.html





Looks like Q's "The fix" has company in the marketplace.

With a street price said to be around $1400, I'm tempted...

-- Michael
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2019, 1:20 PM
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yay.
More bolt rifles with AR pistol grips that are not good for hunting OR serious target shooting.
I'm sure it will sell great to the guys that put their target frames on the 50yd line.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2019, 1:31 PM
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Looks like an AR-10 lower that was converted to bolt.
Not my cup of tea, but I can see these selling to the tacticool market base.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2019, 1:37 PM
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Well crap! My checking account is just now recovering from Black Friday. I was figuring it to be closer to three grand and out of the question.

I wonder if the barrels are as swappable as on AR's. And what the bolt face diameter is.

Recoilweb piece:
https://www.recoilweb.com/sig-sauer-...et-155231.html

Dangit, it even uses AICS compatible mags.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2019, 4:06 PM
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The breakdown of the rifle looks pretty good for a starting point with a 3 lug floating bolt head to a barre kit to make barrels easier to change along with a bolt handle that is easy to swap out. Looks like they did their homework. Bolt head for this run is for .308/6.5/&277(dog cartridge that Looks like it may be introduced to the market at some point) and a decent price point.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2019, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
yay.
More bolt rifles with AR pistol grips that are not good for hunting OR serious target shooting.
I'm sure it will sell great to the guys that put their target frames on the 50yd line.
I thought I was the only one who thought the same
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2019, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
yay.
More bolt rifles with AR pistol grips that are not good for hunting OR serious target shooting.
I'm sure it will sell great to the guys that put their target frames on the 50yd line.
I get all 3 holes touching when my scope is cranked up 24x... you jealous?
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2019, 7:02 PM
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I’ve always wondered how I made it 4 decades without a dust cover on my bolt action rifles. Thanks sig for finally caring about the working man.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2019, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
yay.
More bolt rifles with AR pistol grips that are not good for hunting OR serious target shooting.
?

-- Michael
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2019, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
?

-- Michael
Are you new to bolt actions?
Are you mostly interested because it has an AR pistol grip and looks like something from battlestar galactica??
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2019, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
yay.
More bolt rifles with AR pistol grips that are not good for hunting OR serious target shooting.
I'm sure it will sell great to the guys that put their target frames on the 50yd line.
Why would a Ar pistol grip not be good for hunting or target shooting?
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2019, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE MAMBA View Post
Why would a Ar pistol grip not be good for hunting or target shooting?
It's not BECAUSE it has an AR pistol grip.
It's the whole package that happens to have an AR pistol grip that's not good for hunting or serious target shooting.
AR pistol grips make nice challenging 400yd reactive targets.
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2019, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It's not BECAUSE it has an AR pistol grip.
It's the whole package that happens to have an AR pistol grip that's not good for hunting or serious target shooting.
AR pistol grips make nice challenging 400yd reactive targets.

So because its a chassis , or because it uses a barrell extension?
What prevents that from shooting animals?
Serious targeting shooting like a bench rest gun?
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2019, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE MAMBA View Post
So because its a chassis , or because it uses a barrell extension?
What prevents that from shooting animals?
Serious targeting shooting like a bench rest gun?
16" 308's don't make good target rifles.
Pistol gripped bolt guns with big bolt knobs don't carry well.
It's completely suitable for the guy that parks his compact car within 75yds of the concrete bench at the 100yd KD range.
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2019, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
16" 308's don't make good target rifles.
Pistol gripped bolt guns with big bolt knobs don't carry well.
It's completely suitable for the guy that parks his compact car within 75yds of the concrete bench at the 100yd KD range.
I've never met anyone who carried their rifle with the bolt against their body, that makes no sense whatsoever regardless of rifle design.
I'm sure you can buy a longer barrel or more capable cartridge. Would that make this style rifle better for target shooting?
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2019, 9:34 PM
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CA legal! I'll wait for it to come out in FDE
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  #17  
Old 12-18-2019, 10:11 PM
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16" is just this first model. SIG probably figured nobody would buy a .308 for target shooting when they could just buy a 6.5 with a longer barrel.

It said right in the article tactical models will follow. It's a highly modular design so SIG can make many variations for low cost, kind of like how there are like a dozen different P320 variants.

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Originally Posted by vpravada View Post
CA legal! I'll wait for it to come out in FDE
The first version will offered in that anodized camo.

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  #18  
Old 12-18-2019, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE MAMBA View Post
I'm sure you can buy a longer barrel or more capable cartridge. Would that make this style rifle better for target shooting?
need more weight as well

it looks like they are using a barrel extension with an aluminum receiver(AR style)

if this is the case, it's basically a single shot AR10 that takes AICS mags
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2019, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE MAMBA View Post
So because its a chassis...

...

What prevents that from shooting animals?
I'm certainly happy to enumerate my reasons for avoiding this (or any chassis gun) as a hunting rifle.
  1. The cheek piece will possibly catch on stuff while walking/crawling through the bush.
  2. The recoil pad will possibly catch on stuff while walking/crawling through the bush.
  3. 16 inch barrel.... why?
  4. Pistol grip can possibly get caught on stuff while walking/crawling through the bush.
  5. Non-flush magazine will possibly get caught on stuff while crawling/walking through the bush.
  6. Handguard is a good place for stuff to get caught up while crawling/walking through the bush.
  7. Lots of holes in the stock to possibly catch on stuff while crawling/walking through the bush.
  8. If you try to prevent all that stuff from getting caught on things by folding the stock, you now have to unfold the stock before shooting game animals.
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2019, 5:21 AM
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Everyone should watch the video and take note of the steel headed case. This was done years and years ago so you didn't expand caseheads and get loose primer pockets with warm loads. The brass body threaded onto the casehead.

http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo10jun.htm
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Last edited by LynnJr; 12-19-2019 at 5:28 AM..
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  #21  
Old 12-19-2019, 7:40 AM
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it looks like they offer a 6.5 Cr with an 18inch barrel as well.

appreciate the information about the grip shape being potentially problematic....i had thought perhaps this might be an affordable way to get into longer range shooting
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  #22  
Old 12-19-2019, 8:43 AM
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Most chassis guns I've seen have a grip similar to that of an AR. Does the precision chassis have a different grip angle than a standard AR and is the chassis grip interchangeable with standard AR grip?
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  #23  
Old 12-19-2019, 9:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtenenhaus View Post
it looks like they offer a 6.5 Cr with an 18inch barrel as well.

appreciate the information about the grip shape being potentially problematic....i had thought perhaps this might be an affordable way to get into longer range shooting
I'm not a long range shooter so discount whatever I'm saying if you like. I don't find the grip shape to be problematic for shooting in general, I find it problematic for hunting.

So when a company like Sig offers up a 'precision hunting rifle' that includes a pistol grip and a tiny little barrel (among other things) it looks like they are catering to the wannabe sniper crowd. They might as well sell it as a package with a multi-cam based ghillie suit and a HOG saddle. If that's your thing then whatever, go forth and hunt, we need all the hunters we can get in this day and age.

That short barrel hampers downrange ballistics which is sub-optimal for long range shooting AND hunting. While any of the cartridges offered in the barrel lengths offered will have enough velocity/energy at 400 yards to take animals cleanly the reduced velocity of the short barrel reduces the point blank range of each cartridge forcing the hunter to hold over on shots he or she could otherwise just hold on meat. The short barrel reduces velocities for long range shooting so the user is now forced into choosing high ballistic coefficient bullets with LOTS of drop and LOTS of time to target or lower ballistic coefficient bullets with plenty of drop and slightly less time to target. I don't see a lot of Palma guys shooting 16 and 18 inch barrels...

The short barrel DOES make the rifle handier out in the field because it's less likely to get caught up on stuff but, all that extraneous stuff jutting out from the rifle and stock makes it MORE likely to get caught up on stuff.

The rifle is neat looking and it does tickle my tacticool side but it's not something I'd want to hunt with or play PRS or any real long range games with. It's right up there with the tacticool Mossberg lever gun and tacticool Ruger .22 rimfire so far as I'm concerned (I do want that Ruger .22 though...).

And after watching the video I can't wait to head to the range where people will be shooting muzzle braked 18 inch .277 Sig rifles..
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  #24  
Old 12-19-2019, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Everyone should watch the video and take note of the steel headed case. This was done years and years ago so you didn't expand caseheads and get loose primer pockets with warm loads. The brass body threaded onto the casehead.

http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo10jun.htm
Weren't those steel headed cases reinvented/re-introduced at SHOT a few years back?
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  #25  
Old 12-19-2019, 9:28 AM
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I guess I am the guy that sets my rifle target up at 50 yards.

But that is just to warm up.

By the end of the day I have pushed it out to 75 yards. Maybe even a hundred if I have my 18" gong. You get quite a crowd behind you when you start making that gong sing and dance. Plain old .308 bolt action is plenty of gun. These gadget laden tactical bolt guns with the .65 Creedwell or .224 whispering wildcat are an answer to a problem that operators don't have.
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Old 12-19-2019, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I'm certainly happy to enumerate my reasons for avoiding this (or any chassis gun) as a hunting rifle.
  1. The cheek piece will possibly catch on stuff while walking/crawling through the bush.
  2. The recoil pad will possibly catch on stuff while walking/crawling through the bush.
  3. 16 inch barrel.... why?
  4. Pistol grip can possibly get caught on stuff while walking/crawling through the bush.
  5. Non-flush magazine will possibly get caught on stuff while crawling/walking through the bush.
  6. Handguard is a good place for stuff to get caught up while crawling/walking through the bush.
  7. Lots of holes in the stock to possibly catch on stuff while crawling/walking through the bush.
  8. If you try to prevent all that stuff from getting caught on things by folding the stock, you now have to unfold the stock before shooting game animals.
This is a list of good arguments, and I agree with some of them but
The notion that a chassis is bad for hunting or target shooting just because its a chassis is not true
I would say a chassis on a sling carries better than a traditional stock,
a chassis allows for better positional shooting and pistol/vertical grips enable you to get a better trigger pull with hand placement.
Good reloading, proper fundamentals and quality trigger/barrel will take you alot farther than worrying about a chassis compared to a stock
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Old 12-19-2019, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I guess I am the guy that sets my rifle target up at 50 yards.

But that is just to warm up.

By the end of the day I have pushed it out to 75 yards. Maybe even a hundred if I have my 18" gong. You get quite a crowd behind you when you start making that gong sing and dance. Plain old .308 bolt action is plenty of gun. These gadget laden tactical bolt guns with the .65 Creedwell or .224 whispering wildcat are an answer to a problem that operators don't have.
Most ranges in the bay area don't go farther than 200 yrds, so you are not the only one.
These style rifles make for great target rifles at those ranges, introduce new shooters to the sport and are just fun to play with.
Its also ok to buy a rifle because you like the way it looks, thats why I bought a m1a in a JAE chassis
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  #28  
Old 12-19-2019, 10:04 AM
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If 18" in 6.5 hasn't been diminishing the caliber's ability enough. Sauer says it's short for hunters. Fine. But why the AR type grip then?
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divehobo View Post
Most chassis guns I've seen have a grip similar to that of an AR. Does the precision chassis have a different grip angle than a standard AR and is the chassis grip interchangeable with standard AR grip?
This is the Masterpiece Arms chassis, which is the most popular chassis used in PRS. The grip is intended for use with prone shooting. But it's easily changed to whatever the need is, swept back like an AR or whatever.

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Old 12-19-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE MAMBA View Post
I've never met anyone who carried their rifle with the bolt against their body, that makes no sense whatsoever regardless of rifle design.
Well, now you've met one, and I don't think I'm unusual. I switch between left and right shoulder while my gun is slung. It's slightly uncomfortable to have the bolt handle pressing against my body, but not as uncomfortable as having the gun slung one one shoulder the whole day.
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
If 18" in 6.5 hasn't been diminishing the caliber's ability enough. Sauer says it's short for hunters. Fine. But why the AR type grip then?
What is your concern with a AR style grip?
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Weren't those steel headed cases reinvented/re-introduced at SHOT a few years back?

Yes they where but I haven't tried them yet
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilante View Post
Well, now you've met one, and I don't think I'm unusual. I switch between left and right shoulder while my gun is slung. It's slightly uncomfortable to have the bolt handle pressing against my body, but not as uncomfortable as having the gun slung one one shoulder the whole day.
Im guessing you are using sling studs on the bottom of a traditional style stock ?
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Old 12-19-2019, 1:37 PM
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Thanks Stroker for explaining. While in competition, you don't rest rifle on magazine for fear of jam, makes sense. Time, buzzer and getting your hits are enough of a stressor without adding in equipment issues. Learned in USPSA enough other stuff can blowout your match without intentionally adding avoidable.

Just looked at those MPA chassis, damm! Bring checkbook
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2019, 2:00 PM
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uhhhhh... nope... not my cup of tea
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Old 12-19-2019, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divehobo View Post
Thanks Stroker for explaining. While in competition, you don't rest rifle on magazine for fear of jam, makes sense. Time, buzzer and getting your hits are enough of a stressor without adding in equipment issues. Learned in USPSA enough other stuff can blowout your match without intentionally adding avoidable.

Just looked at those MPA chassis, damm! Bring checkbook
Well, resting on the magazine isn't stable enough either, they use a bipod or the chassis itself on bags or whatever. The grip is vertical on those so you don't have to bend your wrist while prone.

I don't know what these other people are complaining about with the AR angled grip. The vaunted thumbhole stocks that people used to pay huge dollars for had pistol grips at the same angle.

Harry Lawson thumbhole:
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  #37  
Old 12-19-2019, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE MAMBA View Post
Im guessing you are using sling studs on the bottom of a traditional style stock ?
Yes, that's correct. I suppose you were referring only to guns with a swivel or flush cup attachments on the sides of the firearm. In which case, I agree with you. Nobody would carry their gun with the bolt pointed towards them.
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Old 12-19-2019, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Are you new to bolt actions?
Are you mostly interested because it has an AR pistol grip and looks like something from battlestar galactica??
I'm mostly interested because:

- the bolt head locks into a barrel extension
- and as a result the receiver is Al; there is no typical steel receiver mated to either a chassis or some variant of traditional stock
- it is offered by a large manufacturer as a consumer product
- there is a reasonable chance that it or something like it will be mil issue due to the current mil 6.8 project ( since SIG is one of three downselects in the program )
- it's at a price point that I'm willing to pay for such a rifle

In short, it appears to be a notable point on the evolution of the traditional bolt action rifle. I think that it'd be a fun gun to play around with, considering that I don't own anything even remotely similar.

-- Michael
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Old 12-19-2019, 6:11 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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Considering the feature set you get, it really seems like a bargain to me. Plus, SIG has really jumped on the modular concept, meaning there's a good chance you can modify it at a reasonable cost. I've seen two different reviews that say it's a solid half-moa rifle. Amazing for 6 1/2 pounds.
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Old 12-19-2019, 6:11 PM
WHITE MAMBA WHITE MAMBA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilante View Post
Yes, that's correct. I suppose you were referring only to guns with a swivel or flush cup attachments on the sides of the firearm. In which case, I agree with you. Nobody would carry their gun with the bolt pointed towards them.
Ive always hated carrying rifles by sling studs especially with a harris bipod attached. I think this is where AR pattern/ chassis rifles are superior . The flush cups are typically center line of the barrelled action at multiple points and allow a nice flat carry muzzle up or down and front or back
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