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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #281  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne-N-Beer View Post
Great thread! Lots of good info...

To make sure I understand, the general rule of thought is:

All around set-up:

Carrier with plates, backers and spall mitigation - can be worn with with just backers or complete

Plates - L3,L3+,L4 depending on need and desire
- materials, steels, ceramics and UHMWPE all good with pro/cons for each
- Line-X coating on steel plates (as example) works as spall mitigation along as well as corrosion (to be used in conjuction with additional spall mitigation such as backers)

Backers - L3A (best option)
- Materials - avoid all except woven aramids (kevlar etc)

Am I missing anything - on the basic level? Is this something that would be good and versatile for nearly all situations as it is adaptable?

Last question - backers ran alone - just as effective as soft armor vest (given same level pro?)
This is an excellent summation. I would add to this the choice between concealable/overt, and subset that with the need for load carriage or not with the overt.

The best choice for an all-around use is a low profile overt carrier (that can be concealed if need be without pouches) utilizing a plate such as the FM-STX and soft armor backers/cummerbunds. Soft armor backers are just as effective as full-size vest panels when worn alone.
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  #282  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:08 PM
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**POTENTIAL LEGISLATIVE ALERT**

PROPOSED OUTRIGHT BAN ON ALL HARD ARMOR OWNERSHIP, SALE, TRANSFER:

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/2014...rmor-proposed/

https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th...bill/5344/text

http://www.guns.com/2014/08/08/congr...-to-civilians/

(EXCERPTED FROM ABOVE)

Congressman wants to ban sale of enhanced body armor to civilians
8/08/14 | by Chris Eger

"Rep. Mike Honda, (D-CA), wants to ban the sale of certain kinds of body armor to civilians. (Photo: LA Times)

Rep. Mike Honda, (D-CA), has submitted a bill to the U.S. House that would prohibit the sale, use or possession of what he terms military-grade body armor.

Honda reasons that this measure would aid law enforcement in taking out an active shooter, since the active shooter wouldn’t be able to obtain body armor.

“There is no reason this type of armor, which is designed for warfare, should be available in our communities except for those who need it, like law enforcement,” Honda said in a statement last week. “There’s nothing more dangerous than what a well-armored, unstoppable active shooter can do. This bill is common-sense and long overdue.”

Honda’s bill, H.R. 5344, The Responsible Body Armor Possession Act, would place a ban on what it terms ‘enhanced body armor.’ "
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  #283  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
**POTENTIAL LEGISLATIVE ALERT**

PROPOSED OUTRIGHT BAN ON ALL HARD ARMOR OWNERSHIP, SALE, TRANSFER:

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/2014...rmor-proposed/

https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th...bill/5344/text

http://www.guns.com/2014/08/08/congr...-to-civilians/

(EXCERPTED FROM ABOVE)

Congressman wants to ban sale of enhanced body armor to civilians
8/08/14 | by Chris Eger

"Rep. Mike Honda, (D-CA), wants to ban the sale of certain kinds of body armor to civilians. (Photo: LA Times)

Rep. Mike Honda, (D-CA), has submitted a bill to the U.S. House that would prohibit the sale, use or possession of what he terms military-grade body armor.

Honda reasons that this measure would aid law enforcement in taking out an active shooter, since the active shooter wouldn’t be able to obtain body armor.

“There is no reason this type of armor, which is designed for warfare, should be available in our communities except for those who need it, like law enforcement,” Honda said in a statement last week. “There’s nothing more dangerous than what a well-armored, unstoppable active shooter can do. This bill is common-sense and long overdue.”

Honda’s bill, H.R. 5344, The Responsible Body Armor Possession Act, would place a ban on what it terms ‘enhanced body armor.’ "
Wouldn't outlawing possession by those law abiding citizens amount to an unconstitutional "taking" by the government that would require compensation?

I don't know if I have a problem with anyone unable to own a firearm also being prohibited from owning body armor. Outlawing felons from possession won't stop posession but will give prosecutors another charge /enhancement when trying to put filth away in our permissive criminal justice system.
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  #284  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:17 PM
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Are any of the concealable plate carriers actually concealable? I like look like I got my hockey pads on under my shirt with my current carrier. Looking for one ideally that holds side plates as well. Doesn't help I'm 240lbs.
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  #285  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
Are any of the concealable plate carriers actually concealable? I like look like I got my hockey pads on under my shirt with my current carrier. Looking for one ideally that holds side plates as well. Doesn't help I'm 240lbs.
Mike, there's concealable, and then there's "concealable." Until such time as we get ballistic roll-on, there will always be an issue with the necessary thickness required for center fire rifle rounds. The most concealable rifle plate carrier I have seen is the older DBT low-vis carrier. I would give them a call and see if they still have them available. They are BALCS soft armor compatible, which will take care of the side-wrap.
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  #286  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
Wouldn't outlawing possession by those law abiding citizens amount to an unconstitutional "taking" by the government that would require compensation?

I don't know if I have a problem with anyone unable to own a firearm also being prohibited from owning body armor. Outlawing felons from possession won't stop posession but will give prosecutors another charge /enhancement when trying to put filth away in our permissive criminal justice system.
Felons are already "prohibited persons" under 18 USC 931:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/931

This proposed legislation is arbitrary and unlawful under the public law.
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  #287  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:55 PM
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Out of all the things that are wrong with our country they choose to go after body armor....
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  #288  
Old 08-10-2014, 3:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Felons are already "prohibited persons" under 18 USC 931:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/931

This proposed legislation is arbitrary and unlawful under the public law.
I wonder who is behind the scenes pushing the legislation.... these Demcratic morons dont think most of this crap up on their own.. there are lobbyists and influence groups usually behind everything. LEO unions??
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  #289  
Old 08-10-2014, 7:29 PM
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What is the best soft body armor insert around ??? Alreay have some AR500
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  #290  
Old 08-10-2014, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
Wouldn't outlawing possession by those law abiding citizens amount to an unconstitutional "taking" by the government that would require compensation?

I don't know if I have a problem with anyone unable to own a firearm also being prohibited from owning body armor. Outlawing felons from possession won't stop posession but will give prosecutors another charge /enhancement when trying to put filth away in our permissive criminal justice system.
Typically bans in Ca. go as follows:
New sales
Private sales
(Generally does not apply if you got items ahead of bans.)

I wonder how this would apply for security officers, politicians & .gov officials, you know the same way CCWs have historically been handed out "only if we see you as important enough, because it is our decision" - "BS Democrats".

Do Democrats do ANYTHING remotely "beneficial" (you know not hindering to liberties, unless of course it is drug related, or full-pinko-commie-agenda)? Idiots keep voting them in, and apparently are not paying attention to what they do, or think they are doing a good job...
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  #291  
Old 08-11-2014, 8:54 AM
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Along with a lot of other laws that involve firearms, they try to ignore ex post facto part. I can not be charged with owning something that was not illegal when I purchased it.
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  #292  
Old 08-11-2014, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisDSA View Post
What is the best soft body armor insert around ??? Alreay have some AR500
http://www.thetargetman.com/product/...semi-flexible/ IMHO
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  #293  
Old 08-11-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by arslin View Post
This insert is not recommended, due to the fact that it contains laminates.

MASS IIIA from Midwest Armor is the way to go for 100% woven aramid backers:

http://www.midwestarmor.com/soft-pan...i-a-soft-panel
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  #294  
Old 08-11-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Typically bans in Ca. go as follows:
New sales
Private sales
(Generally does not apply if you got items ahead of bans.)

I wonder how this would apply for security officers, politicians & .gov officials, you know the same way CCWs have historically been handed out "only if we see you as important enough, because it is our decision" - "BS Democrats".

Do Democrats do ANYTHING remotely "beneficial" (you know not hindering to liberties, unless of course it is drug related, or full-pinko-commie-agenda)? Idiots keep voting them in, and apparently are not paying attention to what they do, or think they are doing a good job...
This would be a nationwide ban. No grandfathering.
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Last edited by d-r; 08-11-2014 at 11:12 AM..
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  #295  
Old 08-11-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by d-r View Post
This would be a nationwide ban. No grandfathering.
Do Democrats do ANYTHING that doesn't SCREAM they want a civil war?

I swear there is going to be a shot heard round the world soon, and that is a scary thought if you have kids.
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  #296  
Old 08-12-2014, 3:42 PM
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Anybody look at this guy's stuff? Considering the 1.5" taller option of 13.5" instead of the 12" tall plate. Opinions please.
Guessing I should get a package with side plates while I'm at it, instead of just front and rear?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271469439343?nav=SEARCH
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  #297  
Old 08-13-2014, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nickel_1022 View Post
Anybody look at this guy's stuff? Considering the 1.5" taller option of 13.5" instead of the 12" tall plate. Opinions please.
Guessing I should get a package with side plates while I'm at it, instead of just front and rear?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271469439343?nav=SEARCH
Steel is HHS, so that is a plus. Dims might prove troublesome for standard plate carriers sized for 10X12. Overall, not bad, price is a bit higher than it strictly should be.
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  #298  
Old 08-14-2014, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Maingun Surplus now offers curved Mil-A-46100 level III plates. I consider these to be the best practices choice in curved steel level III, from a price and durability standpoint:

http://www.maingun.biz/Body_Armor_St...12twocurve.htm
Seems like a good price. However the coating seems kind of thin. Do you think it provide enough protect from bullet fragments? In the video, the coating broke with each shot.
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  #299  
Old 08-14-2014, 4:44 PM
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Getting pretty serious about this package.. $187 shipped for front rear and sides..41600 steal with coating. Anybody else looking at this one?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/111302634055?nav=SEARCH
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  #300  
Old 08-14-2014, 10:15 PM
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D-R....what is your current recommendation for lvl 4 stand alone plates?

Are these any good? Midwest PROGUARD IV NIJ0
http://www.midwestarmor.com/body-armor/proguard-iv


Or something you like better?

How about stand alone lvl III or lvl IV with backers? Thanks.
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  #301  
Old 08-18-2014, 4:13 PM
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Ive narrowed my search down to two. Requirement to stop common rifle threats including m193, m855, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. Ideally around 5lbs. for small size SAPI. Stand alone plates are NOT a requirement.

At 4.8 lbs, the UHMWPE Venture FM3+ from Midwest Armor (NIJ 06) seems to be the best all around option, price not withstanding at $600 each:
http://www.midwestarmor.com/body-armor/venture-fm3-Plus

Is there anything else comparable? With the newer NIJ 06 protocols, concerns about heat damaging the plates seem moot now.
EDIT: After further study, the NIJ 06 conditioning test isn't hot enough to alleviate those concerns.

For a more budget option, the ICW Ceramic SAPI's from BulletProofMe (NIJ 05) can be had for about $230 each, and are 5.5lbs for a small. These are both level III/IV plates, which is cool. I havn't seen that elsewhere.
http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-With-Vest.html

I am a little concerned about the long term durability of ceramics though. Does anyone know of a similar plate, with a NIJ 06 rating? I see a lot of 10x12 plates, but not as many SAPI sized plates.

Last edited by JGalt; 08-19-2014 at 6:58 PM..
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  #302  
Old 08-18-2014, 5:50 PM
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I posted this under a separate thread and they pointed me to this one.

Below is my original post...Has anyone heard of this company and if they are reputable and their product does what they claim they do?

"I've been doing some research for some time now, and I think I've nailed down what plate carrier I want to buy (First Spear STT Plate Carrier).

While researching hard armor, I came across this small company in Miami and I wanted to know if anyone have heard of them and/or have any experience with their hard armor panels? I've seen their videos (not too many) and read their website but wanted to hear from other people.

Their panels are very affordable, the most affordable I've seen online without going the AR500 route.

Thanks!

http://armour-wear.com/6-hard-panels "
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  #303  
Old 08-18-2014, 7:28 PM
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The FM3+ is pretty amazing. Yes, the price is up there, but it is top tier.

For the second option, I would go with either the Midwest Armor Proguard level IV *standalone* or the LTC level IV *standalone*. The former is $143, the latter $179:

http://store.appalachiantraining.com...Code=LTC-26225

http://www.midwestarmor.com/body-armor/proguard-iv

Use the extra $200+ you save to get a better plate carrier, or backers, or ammo...

Weight for small size SAPI will be right around 5.5 lb for each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
Ive narrowed my search down to two. Requirement to stop common rifle threats including m193, m855, 7.62x51, 7.62x39. Ideally around 5lbs. for small size SAPI.

At 4.8 lbs, the UHMWPE Venture FM3+ from Midwest Armor (NIJ 06) seems to be the best all around option, price not withstanding at $600 each:
http://www.midwestarmor.com/body-armor/venture-fm3-Plus

Is there anything else comparable? With the newer NIJ 06 protocols, concerns about heat damaging the plates seem moot now.

For a more budget option, the ICW Ceramic SAPI's from BulletProofMe (NIJ 05) can be had for about $230 each, and are 5.5lbs for a small. These are both level III/IV plates, which is cool. I havn't seen that elsewhere.
http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-With-Vest.html

I am a little concerned about the long term durability of ceramics though. Does anyone know of a similar plate, with a NIJ 06 rating? Or would the price of the NIJ 06 testing negate any cost savings over the UHMWPE FM3+?
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  #304  
Old 08-18-2014, 10:12 PM
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thanks... but at ~ 10"x12" I don't think they will fit in my small plate carrier. And 8lbs seems too heavy. The budget price is nice, but comfort is worth some extra coin.

Last edited by JGalt; 08-18-2014 at 10:22 PM..
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  #305  
Old 08-19-2014, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fliparch View Post
I posted this under a separate thread and they pointed me to this one.

Below is my original post...Has anyone heard of this company and if they are reputable and their product does what they claim they do?

"I've been doing some research for some time now, and I think I've nailed down what plate carrier I want to buy (First Spear STT Plate Carrier).

While researching hard armor, I came across this small company in Miami and I wanted to know if anyone have heard of them and/or have any experience with their hard armor panels? I've seen their videos (not too many) and read their website but wanted to hear from other people.

Their panels are very affordable, the most affordable I've seen online without going the AR500 route.

Thanks!

http://armour-wear.com/6-hard-panels "
Doesn't look bad but from what I understand it will not stop m855.
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  #306  
Old 08-19-2014, 11:05 PM
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Re: proguards. What's the catch here? I'm not seeing a downside honestly. They only stop a single round (level 4 cert right?) and not multiple rounds?
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  #307  
Old 08-20-2014, 6:44 AM
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d-r did the Midwest Proguard replace the Guardian Plate and is it a better plate or just new name?
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  #308  
Old 08-20-2014, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
d-r did the Midwest Proguard replace the Guardian Plate and is it a better plate or just new name?
The Proguard is, IIRC, the current release in the same class as the Guardian. I don't believe it replaced it, per-se, but Midwest is so busy making plates right now that the Guardian is not available for a time.
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  #309  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:30 AM
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i got my new vest tested!

W.H. Murphy testing out his new bulletproof vest. October 1923.

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  #310  
Old 08-21-2014, 6:59 PM
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Do any of you here have any experience or thoughts on these?
http://shop.semperfiarmor.com/AR500-...REEN-SFA-9.htm
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  #311  
Old 08-22-2014, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tiechshlime View Post
Do any of you here have any experience or thoughts on these?
http://shop.semperfiarmor.com/AR500-...REEN-SFA-9.htm
Yes. Carrier is third-tier polyester (NOT NYLON), and plates are Targetman Omega. The carrier is ok for airsoft/paintball use, but you would immediately be replacing it for serious use.

http://www.rothco.com/product-detail...e-carrier-vest

If you are on a budget, spring for the Beez Combat Systems Omega carrier and Omega plates:

http://www.beezcombatsystems.com/Pla...-PC-CAR500.htm

No free lunches, sadly, but you will be glad you sprung for the extra quality.
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  #312  
Old 08-22-2014, 7:10 AM
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http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/1704...-wont-believe/

Why civilians NEED body armor?
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee_Dub View Post
Out of all the things that are wrong with our country they choose to go after body armor....
Right?? Why dont they ban FDA approved SSRI drugs that cause people to go ape**** and shoot up public places? Thats a start. Why dont they stop prescribing adderall to children(the youngest I heard was 6 years old). Why dont they ban the use of microwaves or ban the spraying of toxins into our atmosphere or the methane that is depleting our ozone or the benzene that is giving people leukemia?
What the **** are these morons thinking? I know, dumb question....
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Old 08-22-2014, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BLACK LION View Post
Right?? Why dont they ban FDA approved SSRI drugs that cause people to go ape**** and shoot up public places? Thats a start. Why dont they stop prescribing adderall to children(the youngest I heard was 6 years old). Why dont they ban the use of microwaves or ban the spraying of toxins into our atmosphere or the methane that is depleting our ozone or the benzene that is giving people leukemia?
What the **** are these morons thinking? I know, dumb question....
Because that would impact market share on the front AND back end (sell the problem AND the solution). And what are they thinking? How about "boy, do we have this **** figured out."
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Old 08-22-2014, 5:41 PM
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Because that would impact market share on the front AND back end (sell the problem AND the solution). And what are they thinking? How about "boy, do we have this **** figured out."
Where's the like button? Big companies, Pharm included, run this country...they are counting on us to behave, take our drugs, and be quiet...oh, and pay them all our $$$$

I got my armor...need more
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:25 AM
TheShagg TheShagg is offline
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Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Yes. Carrier is third-tier polyester (NOT NYLON), and plates are Targetman Omega. The carrier is ok for airsoft/paintball use, but you would immediately be replacing it for serious use.

http://www.rothco.com/product-detail...e-carrier-vest

If you are on a budget, spring for the Beez Combat Systems Omega carrier and Omega plates:

http://www.beezcombatsystems.com/Pla...-PC-CAR500.htm

No free lunches, sadly, but you will be glad you sprung for the extra quality.
Sorry, were you recommending the rothco? And the Beez is a bit better and a bit pricier?

Also, what do you think of the cheap Condor MOPC:
https://www.maingun.biz/Condor_Sentr...st10x126x8.htm

I have a skinny frame, so I am a bit worried about the one-size-fits-all-fatties

The AWS Operators Choice looked good, and comes in multiple sizes:
http://awsin.com/proddetail.asp?prod=52813

What are your thoughts for a skinny guy who wants all around good stuff at a good price?

I think this will be going with the Patriot Plates.
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Old 08-26-2014, 7:09 PM
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That was a negative on the Rothco.

The Condor is a decent carrier for the price. There are better to be had, but as far as a starter package, it is hard to beat.

The Beez entry level carriers start at $69 or so, for the slick. The basic molle is about $79, and the bells and whistles molle is around $100 or so. I like them because you can specify size, which is nice if you are worried about fit.

I am not familiar with Op Choice. It "looks" decent, but not having handled one, I cannot give you a full report, positive or negative.

Hope that was helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShagg View Post
Sorry, were you recommending the rothco? And the Beez is a bit better and a bit pricier?

Also, what do you think of the cheap Condor MOPC:
https://www.maingun.biz/Condor_Sentr...st10x126x8.htm

I have a skinny frame, so I am a bit worried about the one-size-fits-all-fatties

The AWS Operators Choice looked good, and comes in multiple sizes:
http://awsin.com/proddetail.asp?prod=52813

What are your thoughts for a skinny guy who wants all around good stuff at a good price?

I think this will be going with the Patriot Plates.
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  #318  
Old 08-27-2014, 5:40 PM
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Hi, I already have a full Condor vest with AR500 plates.

I was thinking about these, for a concealed vest: http://www.bulletproofme.com/ProMAX-GoldFlex.html

Thoughts on their Level IIIA Gold-flex or the Hybrid?

thank you,
Michael J.
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Old 08-27-2014, 5:47 PM
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The goldflex IIIA is pretty nice
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Old 08-27-2014, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Js View Post
Hi, I already have a full Condor vest with AR500 plates.

I was thinking about these, for a concealed vest: http://www.bulletproofme.com/ProMAX-GoldFlex.html

Thoughts on their Level IIIA Gold-flex or the Hybrid?

thank you,
Michael J.
Avoid laminates in soft armor. Goldflex and the Hybrid are laminates. Insist on 100% woven aramid:

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/2014...-ugly-part-ii/
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