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  #41  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:04 PM
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I joined back in July as an Associate member. At the members meeting they said I'd be contacted by the end of the week about volunteer work. I've never heard from them - which kind of sucks because I'd be happy to sweep up brass and clean up after some of the slobs that can't be bothered to grab a broom.

The meeting was pretty lax - no groveling or anything. There were perhaps 6 people turning in their applications and fees and the board basically just voted us all in. All we really had to do was say hello to everyone as we walked up to the front to hand them our check. I had a little introductory speech prepared but didn't have to use it.

I heard the guy who maintains their website lost the files and they had to revert to an older version (which I think has a simpler layout) so maybe some of the info is still out of date.
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:15 PM
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I recently joined a Bay Area club. As part of their process, you have to go to an information session and panel interview with some of the high level folks at the club. It was a little frustrating since it was not particularly convenient but I felt at least after getting there it was a worth while interchange after getting there. It is interesting the process each club decides to put their new members through.

Last edited by AAShooter; 09-08-2013 at 5:23 PM..
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  #43  
Old 09-09-2013, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bazerkly View Post
If you want to volunteer go to their NEW web page, same address as the old. You can volunteer there!

They have a NEW Web Master and it works much better now!!!
Is this the page?

http://www.lprg.org/needvol.html
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  #44  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:00 AM
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Anyone else get screwed over Sunday morning when there was only one Range Officer on duty?

They only opened 14 lanes due to a club rule (14 lanes per RO) which is fine by me but because they only had one RO, the rest of the lanes were left unused though...like 20+ people in line including myself got screwed and were forced to wait on someone to leave.

I am a non-associate member of LPRG and I'm putting together a complaint so I'd like to hear if others have had this happen to them (this is the second time for me).
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  #45  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:08 AM
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The Rifle/Pistol Range is generally run by volunteer RSOs. My guess is they only had one volunteer RSO on hand, for whatever reason. Perhaps someone had a personal emergency or illness. Maybe they could only get one volunteer.

This is part of the reason they continue to push for people to volunteer. Personally, I agree with them that one RSO can not manage the entire range safely.

I expect the response to your complaint will be to ask you to volunteer or find more volunteers to adequately staff the range.
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  #46  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
I expect the response to your complaint will be to ask you to volunteer or find more volunteers to adequately staff the range.
As an outsider non-member, would you seriously consider joining a club with an annual due fee north of $100 a year so that you "might" get to shoot at the range when you would like to and not experience a shortage of Range Officers? I think not.
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  #47  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by renardsubtil View Post
As an outsider non-member, would you seriously consider joining a club with an annual due fee north of $100 a year so that you "might" get to shoot at the range when you would like to and not experience a shortage of Range Officers? I think not.
If they gave a priority to members, would that make a difference? Or, open 1/2 hour earlier for members to get them first shot at getting a bench?

It would encourage membership but make it tougher for non-members to get a bench.
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  #48  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
If they gave a priority to members, would that make a difference? Or, open 1/2 hour earlier for members to get them first shot at getting a bench?

It would encourage membership but make it tougher for non-members to get a bench.
That added benefit sounds nice, but I think I'm just upset overall that a buncha people got screwed by bad scheduling...something I wouldn't expect from a club that is raking in quite a bit of money on an annual basis imho.
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  #49  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:31 AM
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I understand your frustration.
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  #50  
Old 09-24-2013, 7:09 PM
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Hey AA.... You a board member or what ???? You sure can stick up for THE ruling party !!!!...I guess we assoc. members ( or prior members). Can just suk it right. ??? Guess the only paid workers work the trap range for you ???.... So all you pistol and rifle people can just wait... And you wonder why members are leaving in droves ????... DUH....
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  #51  
Old 09-25-2013, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
If they gave a priority to members, would that make a difference? Or, open 1/2 hour earlier for members to get them first shot at getting a bench?

It would encourage membership but make it tougher for non-members to get a bench.


That is part of the PROBLEM! Members are treated poorly! The club hounds them to volunteer and asks for more money, more money!
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  #52  
Old 09-26-2013, 5:41 AM
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Originally Posted by stevec223 View Post
Hey AA.... You a board member or what ???? You sure can stick up for THE ruling party !!!!...I guess we assoc. members ( or prior members). Can just suk it right. ??? Guess the only paid workers work the trap range for you ???.... So all you pistol and rifle people can just wait... And you wonder why members are leaving in droves ????... DUH....
No, just a member like you. Trying to turn this thread into something productive and get beyond just a ***** session. Perhaps a discussion on how to improve things. Livermore has plenty of issues and I have pointed out many in my earlier posts. As I may have mentioned, I am a member of several bay area clubs and it is interesting to see the differences between them.

Livermore has done a great job on continuing to develop their facility. They have not done the same with managing the people aspects of the club. In my mind this has gone down hill. This is part of the reason they struggle to attract and retain volunteers. There is very little social aspect to the club, especially the rifle/pistol/archery range since there are not activities/leagues to bring people together. I believe this decline started when the monthly membership meetings went away and the board started conducting more and more business in private session.

Not quite sure what you mean by "Guess the only paid workers work the trap range for you ???". No one works for me. I believe both the trap and rifle/pistol/archery range have paid help. The trap range might have more paid help during events/shoots. This doesn't really apply the rifle/pistol range since they don't have events.

Members leaving in droves?? Don't know if that is true or not . . . do you have information on that claim? Or are you assuming that due to the membership fee increase?

So what constructive suggestions do you have for Livermore to address the problems? Although I am not sure any of the club's leadership is active on Calguns or would ever see this thread.

I hope I addressed your concerns.

Last edited by AAShooter; 09-26-2013 at 7:54 AM..
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  #53  
Old 09-26-2013, 7:47 AM
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No, just a member like you. Trying to turn this thread into something productive and get beyond just a ***** session.
AA I totally agree with you.. Obviously I have vented some Frustrations I have with the club. Hopefully something positive will come of this discussion.
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  #54  
Old 09-26-2013, 9:50 PM
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Until the old boy network and the 'member' --- associate member class B.S. is eliminated at lprg there is not much hope .. You cant have zero posibility of change in thinking and policys if 80 percent ot the club cant vote... Trap priorty is king at lprc... Chabot is just the opposite... Trap shooters there are the low priorty ... So look around at many clubs before putting out your memb. Dues... Hard to relalize and finally figure out clubs arent interested in members input and best interests...
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  #55  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:13 AM
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Until the old boy network and the 'member' --- associate member class B.S. is eliminated at lprg there is not much hope .. You cant have zero posibility of change in thinking and policys if 80 percent ot the club cant vote... Trap priorty is king at lprc... Chabot is just the opposite... Trap shooters there are the low priorty ... So look around at many clubs before putting out your memb. Dues... Hard to relalize and finally figure out clubs arent interested in members input and best interests...
I agree with your comment regarding the "Old Boys Network" and the Associate Member Nonsense but issues with Trap vs Target Shooting is kind of a non-issue. I prefer Trap so I like Livermore better than Chabot. I prefer Skeet over International Clays... but we can't have everything! So for Trap, at the moment I go to LPRGC and Coyote Valley for Skeet! There are other ranges some good and some not so good.

Last edited by Bazerkly; 09-27-2013 at 11:16 AM..
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  #56  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:23 AM
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I think the combination of the "Old Boys Network" and the board's practice of doing business in Executive Session not open to the public is dangerous. This is especially true when the minutes are brief or written to discourage transparency into the board's decisions. If nothing else it leaves the membership in the dark and makes them wonder what is happening. This feeds the rumor mill. Even worse, it can allow for inappropriate actions by the board and avoids the accountability to the club members.

I, for one, think having open board meetings (with rare executive sessions to deal with things like personnel issues, etc) would be healthy for the club, help squash the rumor mill, and allow for more club member input. I also would like to see the detailed minutes from the meetings accessible on the web for club members. The current practice of posting minutes is lacking and only make them available to the most motivated members.
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  #57  
Old 09-27-2013, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
I, for one, think having open board meetings (with rare executive sessions to deal with things like personnel issues, etc) would be healthy for the club, help squash the rumor mill, and allow for more club member input. I also would like to see the detailed minutes from the meetings accessible on the web for club members. The current practice of posting minutes is lacking and only make them available to the most motivated members.
Sounds good to me... I would like to see the "Associate Member" go away. Either you are a member or you are not!

Obviously MY opinion is in reality meaningless!
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  #58  
Old 09-27-2013, 7:41 PM
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. . . Obviously MY opinion is in reality meaningless!
As valid as anyone else's opinion.
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  #59  
Old 09-28-2013, 11:32 AM
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By the way, the elections are coming for three board members. Three board seats are up for grabs.

If you are a regular member or know one that would help fix the club, encourage them to run for the board.
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  #60  
Old 09-29-2013, 7:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
By the way, the elections are coming for three board members. Three board seats are up for grabs.

If you are a regular member or know one that would help fix the club, encourage them to run for the board.
So since the so called "Associate" members can't run we are back to square #1.....
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  #61  
Old 09-29-2013, 7:58 AM
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While AA plays apologist, he might also take the criticism that's being communicated and HELP FIX THE PROBLEMS.

After 20 years of the ups and downs I finally gave up on LPRGC about 2 years ago. I was once an RSO there and that enlightened me about how little they'd thought out policy and procedure and how non-existent the training on those matters was and how little thought has been put into the whole matter of operations.

The rifle/pistol range is crippled, only half can be used while the rest has been reduced to a fallow parking lot that holds 3 times as many cars as the range holds people.

Rangemasters are either nothing but walking and talking clocks or are yelling FUD machines. 3:5 are either full of FUD and stupidity or are always in someone's grill but both seem to be failing entirely to manage the firing line at all. They lack command presence.

Pricing for member and non-member does not reflect the constant reduction in available shooting options. The regular staff quality has been in a downward spiral ever since Dave got the boot a decade ago and they can't keep any volunteers that are worth a wet damn. Membership prices have skyrocketed and you get less for it.

The place is a complete burn-out which is a shame since I live less than a mile from there. At this point I just drive to some public land to shoot now. I don't care if it is a 2 hour drive, at least I can enjoy myself safely and the cost is a wash and nobody yells across a crowded firing line causing every muzzle in the place to suddenly point left.

The trap range is half the problem. The rifle range is the other half. There's been a power struggle going on since the 1990's with the trap range people and the rifle range people not managing to understand they're part of the same organization. What a waste.
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  #62  
Old 09-29-2013, 11:39 AM
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While AA plays apologist, he might also take the criticism that's being communicated and HELP FIX THE PROBLEMS.

After 20 years of the ups and downs I finally gave up on LPRGC about 2 years ago. I was once an RSO there and that enlightened me about how little they'd thought out policy and procedure and how non-existent the training on those matters was and how little thought has been put into the whole matter of operations.

The rifle/pistol range is crippled, only half can be used while the rest has been reduced to a fallow parking lot that holds 3 times as many cars as the range holds people.

Rangemasters are either nothing but walking and talking clocks or are yelling FUD machines. 3:5 are either full of FUD and stupidity or are always in someone's grill but both seem to be failing entirely to manage the firing line at all. They lack command presence.

Pricing for member and non-member does not reflect the constant reduction in available shooting options. The regular staff quality has been in a downward spiral ever since Dave got the boot a decade ago and they can't keep any volunteers that are worth a wet damn. Membership prices have skyrocketed and you get less for it.

The place is a complete burn-out which is a shame since I live less than a mile from there. At this point I just drive to some public land to shoot now. I don't care if it is a 2 hour drive, at least I can enjoy myself safely and the cost is a wash and nobody yells across a crowded firing line causing every muzzle in the place to suddenly point left.

The trap range is half the problem. The rifle range is the other half. There's been a power struggle going on since the 1990's with the trap range people and the rifle range people not managing to understand they're part of the same organization. What a waste.
So what would it take to fix things at LPRG and restore your faith in the club. What suggestions would you give to improve the club?

I try to communicate suggestions for improvement to the powers to be in the club but it is just one more opinion along with all the other member opinions.
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  #63  
Old 09-29-2013, 12:46 PM
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Would be a shame to lose a firearms range.
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  #64  
Old 09-29-2013, 1:17 PM
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The gun club I belong to has had their insurance premium skyrocket!
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  #65  
Old 09-29-2013, 2:00 PM
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So what would it take to fix things at LPRG and restore your faith in the club. What suggestions would you give to improve the club?

I try to communicate suggestions for improvement to the powers to be in the club but it is just one more opinion along with all the other member opinions.
I think a start would be for the club to communicate that it is willing to change and come out of the closet. That would be a start! Next would be to eliminate the Associate Member BS. Last would be an "Open Books Policy".

Personally I don't expect any changes... I would love to be proven wrong!

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Old 09-29-2013, 2:30 PM
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I think a start would be for the club to communicate that it is willing to change and come out of the closet. That would be a start! Next would be to eliminate the Associate Member BS. Last would be an "Open Books Policy".

Personally I don't expect any changes... I would love to be proven wrong!


I agree. Making the club operations more transparent would be a good start. I would like to see an annual plan from the board with some clear goals so the club's direction is clear. Finally the whole issue of volunteers is a problem that has been in place for several years. They need to put a person in charge of the volunteer effort--attracting, managing, rewarding and retaining volunteers. Doing the same old thing is not working. In my view, this latest plan of requiring volunteer hours to join the club not only discourages membership but drives shooters to other clubs.

Last edited by AAShooter; 09-29-2013 at 3:47 PM..
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  #67  
Old 10-05-2013, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec223 View Post
Hey AA.... You a board member or what ???? You sure can stick up for THE ruling party !!!!...I guess we assoc. members ( or prior members). Can just suk it right. ??? Guess the only paid workers work the trap range for you ???.... So all you pistol and rifle people can just wait... And you wonder why members are leaving in droves ????... DUH....
Do you want some cheese with that wine? You sound like the typical club member who does nothing to help, but complains about everything. Do you volunteer?

I'm not a member at Livermore, but AA Shooter has been nothing but open & honest. No need to take it out on him. You should look in the mirror. You aren't a full member, but have done nothing/little to improve the situation. You could leave the Club, I'm sure no one would notice.
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  #68  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:11 PM
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Its obvious you have never been a member... Or accociate member like 80 % ( or more) of US... Who have no vote OR say about any club business... You know absolutely nothing about lprg... So move on to what you might know something about . ..
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