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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 07-20-2019, 10:18 PM
JPetrucci84 JPetrucci84 is offline
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Default Any musicians? CCW bars BUT...

Hey all.

I understood when my CCW instructor mentioned no bars with CCW, but what if I’m transporting music equipment and am leaving and returning to the bar? Would it really be necessary to remove the weapon once I cross the threshold then return it when I go outside for another set? It seems like music equipment here is getting stolen more and more frequently, which is another reason why I got my CCW. Thanks for any advice/experience.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:08 PM
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My AI says "Don't be the guy who gets the next restrictive law put on CCW holders.

Currently there is no law in California preventing CCW in Bars. However you do sign an application where you agree not to carry in Bars.

Personally in your situation I would not disarm to walk in and out of a bar, but I would NEVER ever carry in Public when I have been drinking.

You need to evaluate your own situation. Does the risk of losing your CCW if you are caught out weigh your personal safety?

ONLY YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
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Last edited by 71MUSTY; 07-20-2019 at 11:11 PM..
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Old 07-21-2019, 8:22 AM
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While Drinking in Bars is off limits, the location is not an issue
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Old 07-21-2019, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPetrucci84 View Post
Would it really be necessary to remove the weapon once I cross the threshold then return it when I go outside for another set?

What’s your IA? What do their restrictions and conditions specify? In Sacramento County, for example, the situation you describe would prohibit you from carrying if you were staying inside for any length of time, but I doubt making several trips carrying equipment would be an issue unless you’re hanging around in there between loads (or before or after you’ve finished carrying the stuff).

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Old 07-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyHouston View Post
While Drinking in Bars is off limits, the location is not an issue
Not true—at least in Orange Co. Here’s an except from their Terms of License:

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Old 07-21-2019, 12:27 PM
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Looks like an OC specific thing
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Old 07-21-2019, 3:27 PM
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Default Any musicians? CCW bars BUT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyHouston View Post
Looks like an OC specific thing


Not OC specific. These are the provisions you agree to abide to when signing the State of California BOF 4012 (Standard Renewal and Initial Application for a License to Carry a Concealed Weapon) section 4.

My IA was very specific in going over each of these during the interview process.



Section 4 - CCW License Conditions and Restrictions


The licensee is responsible for all liability for, injury to, or death of any person, or damage to any property which may result through any act or omission of either the licensee or the agency that issued the license. In the event any claim, suit, or action is brought against the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees, by reason of, or in connection with any such act or omission, the licensee shall defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees from such claim, suit, or action.

The licensee authorizes the licensing agency to investigate, as they deem necessary, the licensee's record and character to ascertain any and all information which may concern his/her qualifications and justification to be issued a license to carry a concealed weapon and release said agency of any and all liability arising out of such investigation.

While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:

• Consume any alcoholic beverage.
Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.
• Be under the influence of any medication or drug, whether prescribed or not.
• Refuse to show the license or surrender the concealed weapon to any peace officer upon demand.
• Impede any peace officer in the performance of his/her duties.
• Present himself/herself as a peace officer to any person unless he/she is, in fact, a peace officer as defined by California law.
• Unjustifiably display a concealed weapon.
• Carry a concealed weapon not listed on the permit.
• Carry a concealed weapon at times or circumstances other than those specified in the permit.

Title 49, section 46505 of the United States Code states that a license to carry a concealed weapon does not authorize a person to carry a firearm, tear gas, or any dangerous weapon aboard commercial airlines. Further, a person must declare that he/she is carrying such firearm, tear gas, or any dangerous weapon BEFORE entering the boarding area of an air terminal where the security checks are made. Such violation can result in arrest by law enforcement.

Any violation of these restrictions or conditions may invalidate the CCW license and may void any further use of the license until reinstated by the licensing authority. Any arrest for a felony or serious misdemeanor, including driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs, is cause for invalidating the license.

Last edited by awiner; 07-21-2019 at 3:59 PM..
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Old 07-21-2019, 7:30 PM
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Mine says no bars in similar verbiage that the other posters have shared.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:36 PM
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Carrying a firearm in establishments where Alcohol is the primary function is also prohibited on my Humboldt County CCW License.

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Old 07-22-2019, 8:06 AM
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I understand consumption, but just being there? What if you don't drink but you are a designated driver or care taker for someone that drinks...
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Old 07-22-2019, 8:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
I understand consumption, but just being there?What if you don't drink but you are a designated driver...
A designated driver doesn't drive in the bar. S/he can wait out in the car. Besides, that's what Über is for.
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Old 07-22-2019, 8:38 AM
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Good luck getting a friend who volunteers to be your DD and wants to hang out without having to drink to sit in the car. Not everyone can afford uber after a night of drinking...
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Old 07-22-2019, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Not everyone can afford uber after a night of drinking...
If that's the case you should be saving your money and not spending it on booze. What's Uber cost? $20 for a ten mile ride?
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Old 07-22-2019, 9:15 AM
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Don't know. I don't drink. So I never needed uber.
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Old 07-22-2019, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Not everyone can afford uber after a night of drinking...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
If that's the case you should be saving your money and not spending it on booze. What's Uber cost? $20 for a ten mile ride?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Don't know ... So I never needed uber.
Then how can you make such a statement on affordability?
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag+1 View Post
Then how can you make such a statement on affordability?
Exactly.

Because if I can afford a a night of drinking I should be able to afford $20 for a safe ride home. If not, priorities are out of order. If you're drinking your last $20 you are nothing short of a moron.
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Old 07-22-2019, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPetrucci84 View Post
Hey all.

I understood when my CCW instructor mentioned no bars with CCW, but what if I’m transporting music equipment and am leaving and returning to the bar? Would it really be necessary to remove the weapon once I cross the threshold then return it when I go outside for another set?
They don’t want the guns in the bar. If you’re moving equipment into, or out of, a venue, then you disarm and lock it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPetrucci84 View Post
It seems like music equipment here is getting stolen more and more frequently, which is another reason why I got my CCW. Thanks for any advice/experience.
The probability that a thief would attempt to steal equipment while you are loading/unloading seems remote, and can be mitigated by having someone watch the vehicle while you are inside the club. You also want to be careful, here. If a thief attempts to steal equipment in a non-violent manner (outside of a personal dwelling), the use of deadly force to halt the robbery may be deemed excessive. In fact, should the thief respond and attack you, they could very well mount a self-defense case against you. If the property isn’t yours, your problems could escalate.
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Old 07-22-2019, 5:56 PM
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So pool place is not primary to serve alcohol, it's ok I guess to carry there.
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Old 07-22-2019, 6:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag+1 View Post
Then how can you make such a statement on affordability?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
Exactly.

Because if I can afford a a night of drinking I should be able to afford $20 for a safe ride home. If not, priorities are out of order. If you're drinking your last $20 you are nothing short of a moron.
That's why they want a DD for free. That's how I can make that statement.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faris1984 View Post
So pool place is not primary to serve alcohol, it's ok I guess to carry there.
I am told it comes down to what liquor license they possess.
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Old 07-24-2019, 3:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awiner View Post
Not OC specific. These are the provisions you agree to abide to when signing the State of California BOF 4012 (Standard Renewal and Initial Application for a License to Carry a Concealed Weapon) section 4.

My IA was very specific in going over each of these during the interview process.

Section 4 - CCW License Conditions and Restrictions

The licensee is responsible for all liability for, injury to, or death of any person, or damage to any property which may result through any act or omission of either the licensee or the agency that issued the license. In the event any claim, suit, or action is brought against the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees, by reason of, or in connection with any such act or omission, the licensee shall defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees from such claim, suit, or action.

The licensee authorizes the licensing agency to investigate, as they deem necessary, the licensee's record and character to ascertain any and all information which may concern his/her qualifications and justification to be issued a license to carry a concealed weapon and release said agency of any and all liability arising out of such investigation.

While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:

• Consume any alcoholic beverage.
Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.
• Be under the influence of any medication or drug, whether prescribed or not.
• Refuse to show the license or surrender the concealed weapon to any peace officer upon demand.
• Impede any peace officer in the performance of his/her duties.
• Present himself/herself as a peace officer to any person unless he/she is, in fact, a peace officer as defined by California law.
• Unjustifiably display a concealed weapon.
• Carry a concealed weapon not listed on the permit.
• Carry a concealed weapon at times or circumstances other than those specified in the permit.

Title 49, section 46505 of the United States Code states that a license to carry a concealed weapon does not authorize a person to carry a firearm, tear gas, or any dangerous weapon aboard commercial airlines. Further, a person must declare that he/she is carrying such firearm, tear gas, or any dangerous weapon BEFORE entering the boarding area of an air terminal where the security checks are made. Such violation can result in arrest by law enforcement.

Any violation of these restrictions or conditions may invalidate the CCW license and may void any further use of the license until reinstated by the licensing authority. Any arrest for a felony or serious misdemeanor, including driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs, is cause for invalidating the license.
I understand that this is on the standard application and I would not do anything my IA indicated he was opposed to. But, that leaves the question of whether or not any of these conditions are enforceable, ie could you be charged with a PC violation if the restriction is not printed on your license or otherwise illegal in the first place. See PEN §26200. (a) A license issued pursuant to this article may include any reasonable restrictions or conditions that the issuing authority deems warranted, including restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under which the licensee may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Any restrictions imposed pursuant to subdivision (a) shall be indicated on any license issued.
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Old 07-24-2019, 6:19 AM
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If the place primary reason is drinking stay out, if it's a steakhouse that serves alcohol gtg.

It's too simple really.
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Old 07-24-2019, 8:06 AM
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Default Any musicians? CCW bars BUT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
I understand that this is on the standard application and I would not do anything my IA indicated he was opposed to. But, that leaves the question of whether or not any of these conditions are enforceable, ie could you be charged with a PC violation if the restriction is not printed on your license or otherwise illegal in the first place. See PEN §26200. (a) A license issued pursuant to this article may include any reasonable restrictions or conditions that the issuing authority deems warranted, including restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under which the licensee may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(b) Any restrictions imposed pursuant to subdivision (a) shall be indicated on any license issued.


The simple answer is regards to being in a place that primary purpose is serving alcohol is no. It is not a penal code violation. Just an violation of California’s License to Carry provisions.

Some of the other provisions such as impeding an officer, etc. are violations that can be charged against appropriate penal codes.
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Old 07-31-2019, 9:37 PM
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Chilis primarily serves food. You can grab a booth and have dinner while NOT drinking and legally carry. You can NOT sit at the bar in Chilis, while carrying, even if not drinking.


The bar's purpose is to serve alcohol that is consumed there.


This is what San Bernardino County Sheriff's stated at their classes..........I just went to a renewal last night and heard the same again.


Bevmo is a no go as well. They offer wine tasting and the primary business is alcohol.
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